50 aid groups demand Israel lift Gaza blockade

[Billo_Really]

There are many Israeli reports and sources to provide information of aid exchange, and grocery, in and out of the strip.

Without you posting those Israeli reports, I can't really comment on them now, can I? And I'm not going to go try to find them for you; it's your claim, your argument, you back it up! However, I did provide those "other sources", you were referring to and you automatically dismissed them without comment. You ignored them like they didn't exist. And unlike an Israeli source that has a track record of BS propaganda, the sources I used are completely nuetral to the conflict with no stake in the outcome. So it's safe to say, they have no reason to lie about what's going on. But when you consider that the Israeli's will not let any independant human rights groups into the area to see for themselves, that's a flag that the Israeli's have something to hide.

And on the subject of aid exchange, allowing a couple trucks a day into the Strip, when it needs about 700 trucks a day to serve the areas needs, is not proof Gazan's are not starving.

Palestinians never ever died of starvation. If that was the case, we all would have known that.

If Gazan's aren't starving, then why are all these nations in the world sending relief vessels (with humanitarian aid) to Gaza? How is it possible for all these various nations to be wrong about what's going on there? And why would they spend all this time and money organizing these ships, over something they're not sure of? If there was no food shortage there, we wouldn't be seeing these flotilla's heading to Gaza.

So far, all your argument is, is innuendo and conjecture. When are you going to cut the crap and start posting some evidence of your own? A debate gets pretty ridiculous, when only one side is providing valid arguments and the other side just acts like they do.

 

[Billo_Really]

Logically, the answer is yes. But I don't trust the Palestinian media concerning the humanitarian issue. The Palestinian media proved to pain any report to make Israel look bad.

It is like you would have based the action of the American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan based on Al Manar or Al Quaeda reports.

I am sure you can see my tiny reason here. Try.

I understand you reason, but it's just something you consider when evaluating the evidence, not something you base your entire position on. What if these reports weren't talking to Palestinian media. In fact, one of the ones I provided said they were talking directly to the children who were starving. If you're going to interject Palestinian media into this argument, then you should be able to show how it is related to the story's I provided. If you can't show relevance, then this part of the discussion, is over.

As far as your overall point, I never indicated you go ask the very people creating problems in an area, to find out what's going on. Obviously, they're going to paint as rosey a picture as they can, just like the Israeli's do. Asking residents who take no part in hostilities, are far more credible than people involved in the conflict.

Why can't you comment on what I provided without trying to spin it into something that wasn't said?

 

[Hossfly]

There are many Israeli reports and sources to provide information of aid exchange, and grocery, in and out of the strip.

Without you posting those Israeli reports, I can't really comment on them now, can I? And I'm not going to go try to find them for you; it's your claim, your argument, you back it up! However, I did provide those "other sources", you were referring to and you automatically dismissed them without comment. You ignored them like they didn't exist. And unlike an Israeli source that has a track record of BS propaganda, the sources I used are completely nuetral to the conflict with no stake in the outcome. So it's safe to say, they have no reason to lie about what's going on. But when you consider that the Israeli's will not let any independant human rights groups into the area to see for themselves, that's a flag that the Israeli's have something to hide.

And on the subject of aid exchange, allowing a couple trucks a day into the Strip, when it needs about 700 trucks a day to serve the areas needs, is not proof Gazan's are not starving.

Palestinians never ever died of starvation. If that was the case, we all would have known that.

If Gazan's aren't starving, then why are all these nations in the world sending relief vessels (with humanitarian aid) to Gaza? How is it possible for all these various nations to be wrong about what's going on there? And why would they spend all this time and money organizing these ships, over something they're not sure of? If there was no food shortage there, we wouldn't be seeing these flotilla's heading to Gaza.

So far, all your argument is, is innuendo and conjecture. When are you going to cut the crap and start posting some evidence of your own? A debate gets pretty ridiculous, when only one side is providing valid arguments and the other side just acts like they do.

Hey there Mr Skeptic, check out this series of photos and especially check out the chart on obesity. Then come back and tell me they are starving.

TheReligionofPeace - A Picture of Life in Gaza

 

[SAYIT]

There are many Israeli reports and sources to provide information of aid exchange, and grocery, in and out of the strip.

Without you posting those Israeli reports, I can't really comment on them now, can I? And I'm not going to go try to find them for you; it's your claim, your argument, you back it up! However, I did provide those "other sources", you were referring to and you automatically dismissed them without comment. You ignored them like they didn't exist. And unlike an Israeli source that has a track record of BS propaganda, the sources I used are completely nuetral to the conflict with no stake in the outcome. So it's safe to say, they have no reason to lie about what's going on. But when you consider that the Israeli's will not let any independant human rights groups into the area to see for themselves, that's a flag that the Israeli's have something to hide.

And on the subject of aid exchange, allowing a couple trucks a day into the Strip, when it needs about 700 trucks a day to serve the areas needs, is not proof Gazan's are not starving.

Palestinians never ever died of starvation. If that was the case, we all would have known that.

If Gazan's aren't starving, then why are all these nations in the world sending relief vessels (with humanitarian aid) to Gaza? How is it possible for all these various nations to be wrong about what's going on there? And why would they spend all this time and money organizing these ships, over something they're not sure of? If there was no food shortage there, we wouldn't be seeing these flotilla's heading to Gaza.

Sure we would. It's politically motivated and has little to do with those poor, hapless Gazans, and you're talking from both sides of your mouth again, Princess. If all these countries are sending aid and Israel is only allowing a couple of trucks per day, how are the Gazans getting all that aid?
BTW, Lipush didn't say there wasn't food shortages in Gaza, just as there is in pretty much every country on earth. She said the Gazans aren't starving as you claim but fail to prove.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hey there Mr Skeptic, check out this series of photos and especially check out the chart on obesity. Then come back and tell me they are starving.

TheReligionofPeace - A Picture of Life in Gaza

That's like asking the KKK to comment on the quality of blacks in their area. The source you used, is about as racist as it gets. But their little table there, they claim is from the WHO. However, when I go to the WHO website, I can't find it anywhere and your source doesn't provide a link to it. Hmmmmm.

But I did find this (from the WHO), which is a little more current than the table you provided...

Access to food and nutritional status: Two recent surveys, carried out by different organizations and using slightly different indicators and cut-off points suggest that the nutritional status of women and children is compromised. Almost half of young children (6-59 months) and women of child-bearing age are anaemic. A survey by CARE/USAID of 936 children and 1534 women shows that 43.8% of children and 48.6% of women have a haemoglobin level below 11.9, while another survey by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) and UNICEF of 3,684 children and 6,204 women shows that 49.5% of children have a haemoglobin level below 10.9 and 45.4% of non-pregnant women have a haemoglobin level below 11.9.

Both surveys also reveal the existence of childhood malnutrition, although the data are not totally comparable. 9.3% of children in the CARE/USAID survey are suffering from wasting, and 13.2% are stunted, while in the PCBS/UNICEF report, the value given for stunting is 9.2% and for wasting plus underweight 5.5%. Both surveys show an overall deterioration in the nutritional status of the entire child population when compared with the results of surveys undertaken by UNWRA before the current crisis.

An overall deterioration nutritional status of the entire child population? So, how can Gazan children be getting fatter, if the overall nutritional status is deteriorating?

 

[Billo_Really]

Sure we would. It's politically motivated and has little to do with those poor, hapless Gazans, and you're talking from both sides of your mouth again, Princess. If all these countries are sending aid and Israel is only allowing a couple of trucks per day, how are the Gazans getting all that aid?

That's the thing, they're not! That's why there is a shortage.

BTW, Lipush didn't say there wasn't food shortages in Gaza, just as there is in pretty much every country on earth. She said the Gazans aren't starving as you claim but fail to prove.

You're a real piece of work, aren't you? I provide the evidence to back up my claim, Lipush provides nothing but innuendo to back up hers and you think she proved her argument and I didn't prove mine?

I guess in your reverse universe, up is down and black is white.

 

[P F Tinmore]

By their presence in Gaza these agencies help prop up the terrorist organization Hamas.

I suggest the tens of thousands of Gazans who are not terrorists throw the terrorists out.

I suggest you shut your fuckin' mouth and stop telling other people how to live their lives the way you see fit! It's none of Israel's (or yours) business who the Pals choose to represent them in a legal, democratic election.

And what does street improvements have anything to do with terrorism? Not everyone in Hamas has committed, supported or contributed to an act of terrorism. Yet the Mossad felt it necessary to go in and assassinate one of their members, who was not part of any defense or militia branch of Hamas, but was a para-palegic. How fucked are you to go kill someone who's spends 24/7 of their life on a gurney?

Hamas goes and puts new street lights in some of their streets, then IDF snipers come in and shoot the lamps out at the top! Which means two things:

1. You treat everything they do as terrorism, even if it isn't.
2. Statements like that, shows people just how full of shit you are on this issue.

End the god-damn blockade, or somebody should send in a battleship with a big sign on the side that say's...

"BOARD THIS MOTHER-FUCKERS!"​

Whether or not you consider Hamas a terrorist organization notwithstanding, it -is- Israel's business who the Palestinians chose to represent them insofar as those choices have vast implications regarding the sort of security that might be needed to prevent terrorist acts from fanatics in Gaza. If nothing else, the people of Gaza choosing leaders who the Israelis feel (whether correctly or incorrectly) are rabidly anti Israel isn't the kind of thing that inspires confidence in the ability to come to a peaceful resolution.

In short, I'm not saying they should let the Israelis pick their leaders for them. I am saying, however, that if you're choosing guys who are widely considered anti Jewish fanatics to represent you, HOW DO YOU EXPECT THE JEWS TO REACT?

In short, I'm not saying they should let the Israelis pick their leaders for them. I am saying, however, that if you're choosing guys who are widely considered anti Jewish fanatics to represent you, HOW DO YOU EXPECT THE JEWS TO REACT?

How are the Palestinians supposed to act about the assholes that the Israelis elect. The Palestinians live under the rule of the Israeli government but are not allowed to vote for that government. And the liars call it a democracy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You take the Palestinian word for everything.

You must be experienced in that level

Now you're just lying because you can't provide any evidence to back up your claim. The two sources I used, were not Palestinian-based organizations. So your accusations are baseless!

BTW, if you wanted to know what is going on in Gaza, wouldn't the logical, credible source, be a Palestinian living in Gaza? You wanted me to believe what you said was going on in the area you're living in, why shouldn't I believe what the Pals say in their neighborhoods?

...wouldn't the logical, credible source, be a Palestinian living in Gaza?

The best idea I have heard all day.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5BDwEW6uw]Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Author, Gaza Mom-The Autograph-09-21-2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Saigon]

Hey there Mr Skeptic, check out this series of photos and especially check out the chart on obesity. Then come back and tell me they are starving.

TheReligionofPeace - A Picture of Life in Gaza

Poverty and obesity are not mutually exclusive.

Actually, obesity is often linked to poverty, as I'd thought a trip to any suburban mall in the US might have told you.

Arguing that Gaza is not poor or has not suffered food shortages is not a credible argument.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hey there Mr Skeptic, check out this series of photos and especially check out the chart on obesity. Then come back and tell me they are starving.

TheReligionofPeace - A Picture of Life in Gaza

Poverty and obesity are not mutuall exclusive.

Actually, obesity is often linked to poverty, as I'd thouht a trip to any suburban mall in the US might have told you.

Arguing that Gaza is not poor or has not suffered food shortages is not a credible argument.

Narrowing the discussion only to food or aid is a deflection from the real problems of the siege.

 

[Lipush]

There are many Israeli reports and sources to provide information of aid exchange, and grocery, in and out of the strip.

Without you posting those Israeli reports, I can't really comment on them now, can I? And I'm not going to go try to find them for you; it's your claim, your argument, you back it up! However, I did provide those "other sources", you were referring to and you automatically dismissed them without comment. You ignored them like they didn't exist. And unlike an Israeli source that has a track record of BS propaganda, the sources I used are completely nuetral to the conflict with no stake in the outcome. So it's safe to say, they have no reason to lie about what's going on. But when you consider that the Israeli's will not let any independant human rights groups into the area to see for themselves, that's a flag that the Israeli's have something to hide.

And on the subject of aid exchange, allowing a couple trucks a day into the Strip, when it needs about 700 trucks a day to serve the areas needs, is not proof Gazan's are not starving.

Palestinians never ever died of starvation. If that was the case, we all would have known that.

If Gazan's aren't starving, then why are all these nations in the world sending relief vessels (with humanitarian aid) to Gaza? How is it possible for all these various nations to be wrong about what's going on there? And why would they spend all this time and money organizing these ships, over something they're not sure of? If there was no food shortage there, we wouldn't be seeing these flotilla's heading to Gaza.

So far, all your argument is, is innuendo and conjecture. When are you going to cut the crap and start posting some evidence of your own? A debate gets pretty ridiculous, when only one side is providing valid arguments and the other side just acts like they do.

Are you serious?

"If Gazan's aren't starving, then why are all these nations in the world sending relief vessels (with humanitarian aid) to Gaza?"



The main aim of those "humanitarian" flotillas is to break the blockade! DUH!

think, if the issue was seriously delivering aid and humanitarian needs, then they would not have any problem delivering it through Egypt.

Fact is that there was weapn on the Mavi Marmara, hot and cold. fact is that they came to die as martyrs to begin with, they have recorded it themselves. fact is that they kidnapped a soldier on board and that they have attacked soldies. So much for "peace" flotillas.

You will forever see flotillas to Gaza, because all their aims, goals, means, are Anti-Israeli to the core.

Lets take some sources

UN Envoy: No Crisis in Gaza - Politics & Gov't - News - Israel National News

Red Cross official: Gaza isn't experiencing a humanitarian crisis - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

ynet

çãùåú - öáà åáéèçåï nrg - "àéï áòæä øòá àå îùáø"

 

[Billo_Really]

The main aim of those "humanitarian" flotillas is to break the blockade! DUH!

No shit! The blockade should be broken. It's illegal and immoral. It's also a war crime. If I had my way, I'd send the USS Missouri. Let the IDF deal with a ship that has bigger guns than they do.

Think, if the issue was seriously delivering aid and humanitarian needs, then they would not have any problem delivering it through Egypt.

Why should they have to do that. Gaza has a port.

Fact is that there was weapn on the Mavi Marmara, hot and cold. fact is that they came to die as martyrs to begin with, they have recorded it themselves. fact is that they kidnapped a soldier on board and that they have attacked soldies. So much for "peace" flotillas.

Knives and forks are not weapons. But that was all they had and I don't blame them for resisting Israeli pirates on the high seas. You cannot attack ship sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation in international waters. It's called piracy. And the flotilla would've been peaceful, the Israeli soldiers hadn't of attacked.

You will forever see flotillas to Gaza, because all their aims, goals, means, are Anti-Israeli to the core.

That's all it is, isn't. The whole world hates Israel and you won't spend one nano-second wondering why? Even if that was true (which it isn't), did you ever think the world would have probable cause and their hatred might be justified? Of coarse, not. You never want to open that can of worms, do ya?

 

[Jos]

Lets take some sources

UN Envoy: No Crisis in Gaza - Politics & Gov't - News - Israel National News

Red Cross official: Gaza isn't experiencing a humanitarian crisis - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

ynet

çãùåú - öáà åáéèçåï nrg - "àéï áòæä øòá àå îùáø"

All israeli

 

[Lipush]

Lets take some sources

UN Envoy: No Crisis in Gaza - Politics & Gov't - News - Israel National News

Red Cross official: Gaza isn't experiencing a humanitarian crisis - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

ynet

çãùåú - öáà åáéèçåï nrg - "àéï áòæä øòá àå îùáø"

All israeli

I have said they all are, before.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Lets take some sources

UN Envoy: No Crisis in Gaza - Politics & Gov't - News - Israel National News

Red Cross official: Gaza isn't experiencing a humanitarian crisis - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

ynet

çãùåú - öáà åáéèçåï nrg - "àéï áòæä øòá àå îùáø"

All israeli

Ahhh, you noticed that.

 

[ima]

Let those settlers stay in the Palestinian country once there is a two state solution. They will end up returning to the Israeli border themselves.

...in body bags.

Body begs? But I thought the Palestinian are care bears, peaceful people. They will kill unarmed people? Noooooooooooooooo. not possible

Unarmed Jews in the WB?

 

[Hossfly]

Lets take some sources

UN Envoy: No Crisis in Gaza - Politics & Gov't - News - Israel National News

Red Cross official: Gaza isn't experiencing a humanitarian crisis - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

ynet

çãùåú - öáà åáéèçåï nrg - "àéï áòæä øòá àå îùáø"

All israeli

Ahhh, you noticed that.

So what is your problem? Those quotes are from official organizations. The trouble with you Palisimians is you have to lie about everything and to not admit what is happening under your nose.

 

[ima]

Own up to the fact that their home is on a patch of land taken by force? If they deny that, I'm unaware of it (though I don't deny it might be the case).

Here's a fun fact for you about the modern world and it's borders: Every people, every currently existing culture, exists on land that, at some point, was taken from some other culture by force. If that makes their claim on that land invalid, then holy SHIT we've got a lot of map rewriting to do. On a side note, I always find this issue particularly funny because the logical extreme of what this implies is everybody going back to the birthplace of their peoples' culture. Essentially, today's liberals are inadvertently endorsing the sort of racial segregation that the KKK's been preaching for generations. You couldn't write shit that ironic if you tried.

So once the Israelis say, "Yes, we inherited this country from folks who took it by force," then what do you propose they do about the situation in Gaza? What concrete action would you propose that they take?

Yes, a lot of countries were formed through force and had civil wars at some point as well to see who owns it. It's just that most pro-Israel posters here keep going on about how Israel's land is inherited from 3000 years ago and/or god given. Which it's clearly not, it's taken by force. And they justify it by the 3000 years ago thing. So when Israelis own up to what they actually did, maybe they can start to heal the wounds that they continue to inflict on another race. I guess they didn't learn much from the race war of WWII.

 

[Lipush]

The main aim of those "humanitarian" flotillas is to break the blockade! DUH!

No shit! The blockade should be broken. It's illegal and immoral. It's also a war crime. If I had my way, I'd send the USS Missouri. Let the IDF deal with a ship that has bigger guns than they do.

Think, if the issue was seriously delivering aid and humanitarian needs, then they would not have any problem delivering it through Egypt.

Why should they have to do that. Gaza has a port.

Fact is that there was weapn on the Mavi Marmara, hot and cold. fact is that they came to die as martyrs to begin with, they have recorded it themselves. fact is that they kidnapped a soldier on board and that they have attacked soldies. So much for "peace" flotillas.

Knives and forks are not weapons. But that was all they had and I don't blame them for resisting Israeli pirates on the high seas. You cannot attack ship sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation in international waters. It's called piracy. And the flotilla would've been peaceful, the Israeli soldiers hadn't of attacked.

You will forever see flotillas to Gaza, because all their aims, goals, means, are Anti-Israeli to the core.

That's all it is, isn't. The whole world hates Israel and you won't spend one nano-second wondering why? Even if that was true (which it isn't), did you ever think the world would have probable cause and their hatred might be justified? Of coarse, not. You never want to open that can of worms, do ya?

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

2. "Why would they. Gaza has a port".

Gaza is under a legal blockade. Any attempt of entering Gaza from the sea will be considered an attack on an Independent state (Israel) and will be considered traspassing.

3. People always have hated Israel, people always will. Especially Muslims.
Since the days when Muhammad made an "agreement pact" with the Jews, and tried to force them later on to convert to Islam, and failed, him and his army has turned against the Jews. First he called them "The people of the book", trying to find his way into their hearts, saying the God he worshiped was the God of Israel, that he was a prophet. The Jews did not accept that, he declaied war, the Jews of Banu Quraiza and Khaibar were slaughtered. The "people of the book" then turned out to be "the sons of pigs and apes", "Those who enrage Allah", those who belong in hell fire.

In Surat Muslimah Al Ma'idah, Sura number 5, The Jews are describes as subhumans; "...Are those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

Sura number 9 says - "They but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth".

In Quran 4:162, Jews are described as infidles (Kaffiraa): "And for their averting from the way of Allah many (people), we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment".

Surah 5:42, says that "[They are] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment."

I could go on and one with it. But i guess I made my point.

My main point is, it is not hatred of Israel, but hatred of Jews. "It is not Palestine that has caused us to hate them," an Egyptian known Sheikh Muhammad Hussein Ya'qub said on Al Rahama television, January 2009 "We would have hate them even if they didn't take anything away from us. Two things are there, that you must know. One, is that the Jews are your enemies. Second, is that they are infidels."

This is a religious war. Nothing was yet to prove to us Israelis that this is all about land and nothing more. Land is land, and if it was really all that there was to it, peace would not have been at all hard to achieve. but this is not about land. It is about religion.

Since Allah has cursed the Jews, made them wonder, by Muslim faith, it is not acceptable that the Jews would have their own legal independence inheritence under the nose of Muslim, in a Muslim territory. At the same time, it could have been Syria, or Iran, or Iraq or Yemen. Jew having a country in an Arab Muslim controled area is something that true Muslims could not have possibly accept.

I suggest you learn about Islam if you don't take my word for it (and we both know you do not).

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

I don't know, maybe it's just me.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

 

[Lipush]

...in body bags.

Body begs? But I thought the Palestinian are care bears, peaceful people. They will kill unarmed people? Noooooooooooooooo. not possible

Unarmed Jews in the WB?

Fogel Family HYD.