50 aid groups demand Israel lift Gaza blockade

[P F Tinmore]

The main aim of those "humanitarian" flotillas is to break the blockade! DUH!

No shit! The blockade should be broken. It's illegal and immoral. It's also a war crime. If I had my way, I'd send the USS Missouri. Let the IDF deal with a ship that has bigger guns than they do.

Why should they have to do that. Gaza has a port.

Knives and forks are not weapons. But that was all they had and I don't blame them for resisting Israeli pirates on the high seas. You cannot attack ship sailing under the flag of a sovereign nation in international waters. It's called piracy. And the flotilla would've been peaceful, the Israeli soldiers hadn't of attacked.

You will forever see flotillas to Gaza, because all their aims, goals, means, are Anti-Israeli to the core.

That's all it is, isn't. The whole world hates Israel and you won't spend one nano-second wondering why? Even if that was true (which it isn't), did you ever think the world would have probable cause and their hatred might be justified? Of coarse, not. You never want to open that can of worms, do ya?

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

2. "Why would they. Gaza has a port".

Gaza is under a legal blockade. Any attempt of entering Gaza from the sea will be considered an attack on an Independent state (Israel) and will be considered traspassing.

3. People always have hated Israel, people always will. Especially Muslims.
Since the days when Muhammad made an "agreement pact" with the Jews, and tried to force them later on to convert to Islam, and failed, him and his army has turned against the Jews. First he called them "The people of the book", trying to find his way into their hearts, saying the God he worshiped was the God of Israel, that he was a prophet. The Jews did not accept that, he declaied war, the Jews of Banu Quraiza and Khaibar were slaughtered. The "people of the book" then turned out to be "the sons of pigs and apes", "Those who enrage Allah", those who belong in hell fire.

In Surat Muslimah Al Ma'idah, Sura number 5, The Jews are describes as subhumans; "...Are those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

Sura number 9 says - "They but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth".

In Quran 4:162, Jews are described as infidles (Kaffiraa): "And for their averting from the way of Allah many (people), we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment".

Surah 5:42, says that "[They are] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment."

I could go on and one with it. But i guess I made my point.

My main point is, it is not hatred of Israel, but hatred of Jews. "It is not Palestine that has caused us to hate them," an Egyptian known Sheikh Muhammad Hussein Ya'qub said on Al Rahama television, January 2009 "We would have hate them even if they didn't take anything away from us. Two things are there, that you must know. One, is that the Jews are your enemies. Second, is that they are infidels."

This is a religious war. Nothing was yet to prove to us Israelis that this is all about land and nothing more. Land is land, and if it was really all that there was to it, peace would not have been at all hard to achieve. but this is not about land. It is about religion.

Since Allah has cursed the Jews, made them wonder, by Muslim faith, it is not acceptable that the Jews would have their own legal independence inheritence under the nose of Muslim, in a Muslim territory. At the same time, it could have been Syria, or Iran, or Iraq or Yemen. Jew having a country in an Arab Muslim controled area is something that true Muslims could not have possibly accept.

I suggest you learn about Islam if you don't take my word for it (and we both know you do not).

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

I don't know, maybe it's just me.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

I suggest you learn about Islam if you don't take my word for it (and we both know you do not).

What about the PFLP?
Or Ghada Karmi, Hanan Ashrawi, Noura Erakat, Huwaida Arraf, Edward Said, rafeef ziadah,...

 

[Billo_Really]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

The Report admits that it was intended to help find ways for Israel and Turkey to repair their relations, rather than to determine right and wrong based on international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

Under international law, blockades are permitted as a military tactic, but must respect international humanitarian law, providing for the free flow of civilian goods to civilians held behind the blockade.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

the true intent of the Israeli blockade is to punish Gazans for their support of Hamas and that it amounts to "collective punishment in violation of Israel's obligations under international law."

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

2. "Why would they. Gaza has a port".

Gaza is under a legal blockade. Any attempt of entering Gaza from the sea will be considered an attack on an Independent state (Israel) and will be considered traspassing.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

3. People always have hated Israel, people always will. Especially Muslims.

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

I suggest you learn about Islam if you don't take my word for it (and we both know you do not).

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

 

[Hossfly]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

The Report admits that it was intended to help find ways for Israel and Turkey to repair their relations, rather than to determine right and wrong based on international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

You really hate Jews, don'tcha?

 

[Billo_Really]

You really hate Jews, don'tcha?

You really love to play that "jew-card"! When you have no more arguments left, you always have your "hate jews speech". Whether it applys or not, you use it like a renewable condom.

For the umpteenth time, this has nothing to do with Judaism. I have no reason to hate jews. They don't affect my life in any way. I don't live in Israel. I could care less how people worship, or what name they call God. But you throw that "jew-card" out there just the same. Because the alternative (to you) is worse. Which would be dealing with Israeli atrocities. And you will. You all will. It's only a matter of time, before you will be unable to deny it any longer. Just like the German's had to do with the Holocaust, you will have your day of reckoning to make amends for the sins of your country. But only your sins. I don't expect you to answer for the sins of others (like Hamas and the PA).

They'll have their day to. We all do!

 

[P F Tinmore]

The whole purpose of the Palmer Report was to whitewash the flotilla debacle.

 

[Lipush]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

The Report admits that it was intended to help find ways for Israel and Turkey to repair their relations, rather than to determine right and wrong based on international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

I will respond in points.

1. True that a blockade should include giving humanitarian aid and medicine and grocery and food and needs. Israel does that. It is written and it is known that trucks carry tons of food and humanitarian needs to the strip every week, if not less.

So no, we're not "fucked up", and the blockade is legal.

I rest my case here.

2. One can say that the blockade is in order to "punish" the Palestinian for electing Hamas. The decision to push this blockade forward was a governmental issue, and was decided and accepted by the high court of Israel. The high court of Israel, if doing the most basic checking, is controled by the left wing. so I find it hard to accept that ministers and prime ministers changed, the high court says nothing, and we do this blockade just to "punish" the Palestinians for voting democratically.

I simply don't buy that. Sorry.

The blockade is being put on a hostile community which causes risk to us. this hostile community was responsible for deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people (American citizens among them, btw). you could say we "punish", but then you would have looked through a very narrow path, completely ignoring the Israeli reason.

as for "collective punishment", I believe it is wrong.

but thinking about it, the Israeli civilians have been living for decades in a "collective punishment", because those suicide bombers, those who stab babies in their cribs and kill in name of Allah will not attack Bibi or Barak. They will attack the elder and the child.

Is it not a collective punishment?

3. If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

Wrong comparison. I don't know you, and you don't influence me in any way.

But "our lawn" is Gaza, and Gaza's lawn is "south Israel". anything that happens in Gaza influence Israel in the immediate time period. one cannot ignore that.

4. "Israel has done things worth hating".

I completely agree. I never said Israel is pure of any wrong. I disagree with putting all the blaim on us, I agree with Mr Tinmore's thinking that it's only "our war" and that the Palestinians wimply wait and do nothing when we solve our issue.

I disagree with the way outsiders tags Israelis, and I think that what really matters is things that you experience, to make judgement.

5. "scapegoat" Islam like was done to the Jews?

I am not sure I know what " scapegoat" is, but the quotes I brought are very much accurate. They are from a muslim site, copied from their Arabic version. I happen to be able to read Arabic well enough to compare with the translation.

comparing to 1933? How convinient. Me going against Islam is based on Qur'an and Hadith reading. not hatred toward Muslims. Hate and contempt toward the religion *itself*.

yes, there is a difference. in Europe they hated the Jews for being Jews, they didn't know anything about Judaism nor they cared.

I happen to know that there are good Muslims, just like there are bad Jews, but the religion itself is revolting in my eyes, because it makes Jew killing more then legal, it makes it an obligation.

and I won't like a religion that called for my people's genocide. Weird, hua?

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgaquz8rjkM]UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Lipush]

1. UN reports say Gaza blockade is legal, even taking to mind that the IDF used "overforce" on Mavi Marmara

WORLD - Israel used 'excessive' force, Gaza blockade legal: UN report

Michael Ross: UN rules that Israeli blockade is legal in blow to failing flotilla | Full Comment | National Post

Ahem, the "Palmer Report", did not have a mandate to review the land blockade of Gaza. They "interviewed no witnesses and had no experts to assist in the inquiry". They just did it to repair relations between Israel and Turkey, not to determine right or wrong with regards to international law.

The Report admits that it was intended to help find ways for Israel and Turkey to repair their relations, rather than to determine right and wrong based on international law.

BTW, even if it was legal, you still have to allow humanitarian aid to pass, you can't prevent it from going into the area.

So you're fucked either way. Legal or illegal, preventing humanitarian aid from reaching Gaza, is a crime.

BTW, the real reason for the blockade, shows that this is a war crime.

You cannot punish someone for a crime they did not commit.

Why would it be an attack on Israel, if they are entering Gaza?

If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

People have good reason to hate Israel. Israel has done some things worth hating. And the sooner you start dealing with that, the sooner this shit will be over.

Why should I learn about Islam, it's not my dance. It's just another way people worship. You scapegoat Islam, like the nazis scapegoated the jews. How ironic.

4. There are detales that i could not possibly say freely here, but the Israeli navy policy states that any suspicious or possibly dangerous should be stopped before entering the 12 miles area. Think about it as your house and garden. You would want to stop a burgler before he enters your house, while he's still in the garden. Of course this can be viewed as piracy, but somehow, i think that the critisizm would not have changed at all even if it was inside the 12 miles.

But we're not talking about an incident on your property, we're talking about something that happened in a public right-of-way. Which is something you don't control and is not yours. Boarding vessels in international waters is an act of war. It's only legal when you board the vessel of a country you're actually at war with.

5. The whole world hates israel because the world sadly, buys everything the Media says. And the media is not at all interested in the truth. Anti zionists here are 100% sure that they get the full picture of "wicked Israel" when they have not even spend 5 minutes talking with an Israeli or a Jew. so honestly? the world can f*ck off. people are showing off their ignorancy concerning Israel every single day. Anti semites and anti Zionists who can still lean on fake quotes like "we control America" and that are positive that the Talmud tells rabbis that it's ok to rape 3 year old girls, is not a world that i truely give a shit on what it thinks. It's a world of useful idiots and ignorants.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think you control America. Explain to me why the world hates Israel. For what reason do they hate Israel. I personally, could care less about Israel. Don't live there and they're not part of my daily life at all. So I have no reason whatsoever to spend the energy on this hatred you speak of, except on these BS, narcissistic responses you keep spewing out. You people simply refuse to be responsible for your actions. That's why I hate Israel. I hate all hypocrites! I think hypocrites are the worst form of human life on the planet. I wanna take their double-standard bullshit and shove it up their ass and out their mouth, so they can see the shit they say whenever they feel like saying something holier than thou.

BTW, why would Physician's for Human Rights hate Israel? Why would the ICRC hate Israel? Why do completely neutral organizations, have some deep seated hatred for Israel? What you're saying, makes no sense at all.

You say you hate hypocrisy? I well hate hipocrisy, as well.

And you know why We Israelis don't give a crap about human rights groups? because we know who fund them, who stands behind them, and to what kind of things they get stick to, like a dog with a bone, and to what kind of things they tend to ignore.

THAT is what hypocrisy is.

Human rights groups are supposed to look for the wrongs in times of war or crisis, point them out on whatever they are found, and to try help fixing them. To all human being in the area no matter color, race, or religion.

human rights have discussed endlessly the crisis in Gaza and the PA, not ONCE, ONCE! a special human right commettee stopped to think what's happening on the other side of the border. Not only that, their conclusions CONSISTENTLY keep the community of south Israel at risk. It is not called acting for human rights when you try to solve the situation in one place while making it worse in the other. what kind of ompotent are those human right groups who do that?

And Italian human rights activist was murdered by Al Quaeda terrorists in Gaza, months ago. He moved there after being active on the internet for the people of Gaza, meeting with Hamas leaders, too. he kept bashing Israel on any chance he got. A southern Israeli mother, whose son was hurt in one of the last rounds of rockets, grew angry and critisized his biased views. His answer to her was that he hopes more rockets will fall, that this is the Israelis fault that all this happen, and that there is no reason why people in south Israel should complain about a situation they themselves caused.

To a mother that her son was almost killed by "freedom fightered".

Human rights activist.

What a bloody JOKE.

 

[Billo_Really]

You say you hate hypocrisy? I well hate hipocrisy, as well.

And you know why We Israelis don't give a crap about human rights groups?

No, you just don't give a shit about human rights, period.

because we know who fund them, who stands behind them, and to what kind of things they get stick to, like a dog with a bone, and to what kind of things they tend to ignore.

Huh?

THAT is what hypocrisy is.

No, that's what illogical reasoning is.

Human rights groups are supposed to look for the wrongs in times of war or crisis, point them out on whatever they are found, and to try help fixing them. To all human being in the area no matter color, race, or religion.

That's their stated goal.

human rights have discussed endlessly the crisis in Gaza and the PA, not ONCE, ONCE! a special human right commettee stopped to think what's happening on the other side of the border.

That's because the other side of the border won't talk to them. They asked for access to the people in charge who took part in the operations, the boots on the ground, so to speak, but were denied access by the Israeli government.

Not only that, their conclusions CONSISTENTLY keep the community of south Israel at risk. It is not called acting for human rights when you try to solve the situation in one place while making it worse in the other. what kind of ompotent are those human right groups who do that?

Well, it wouldn't be worse in the other, if the other, would just stop breaking the law and committing crimes against humanity. When someone commits a crime, the last thing people should do, is to worry about making things worse for the criminal. If he didn't want things to get worse, he shouldn't have committed the crime!

Do you really expect them to look the other way when you murder a para-palegic?

And Italian human rights activist was murdered by Al Quaeda terrorists in Gaza, months ago. He moved there after being active on the internet for the people of Gaza, meeting with Hamas leaders, too. he kept bashing Israel on any chance he got.

What's up with that? Was the Mossad to busy to handle it themselves, so they contracted out to al Qaeda? Farmed out the work to one of their competitors?

Doesn't surprize me. We pay the Taliban to guard our convoys in Afghanistan. As long the check clears, they won't shoot at us.

A southern Israeli mother, whose son was hurt in one of the last rounds of rockets, grew angry and critisized his biased views. His answer to her was that he hopes more rockets will fall, that this is the Israelis fault that all this happen,

That's in reference to 45 years of oppression the Israeli's have been inflicting on the Palestinian's.

and that there is no reason why people in south Israel should complain about a situation they themselves caused.

I don't know what he's talking about there, unless the people in the south are in these illegal settlements. Then they're nothing but jewish insurgents. But I will say, Israeli citizens, living in Israel, should not be targeted for attack.

To a mother that her son was almost killed by "freedom fightered".

Human rights activist.

What a bloody JOKE.

You know, if showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story.

Hey, I just realized your last statement, proved your first statement. We've come full circle. How 'bout that? You started your post claiming you hated hypocrisy, then you ended it, demonstrating hypocrisy. You want us to feel sorry for Israeli children, but then turn around and argue the legality of a blockade that punishes an entire population of Gazan children. And when presented with the evidence showing the amount of suffering Gazan children are having to endure, you're not interested in even discussing it. Yet, you expect people to have concern for Israeli children.

 

[Billo_Really]

I will respond in points.

1. True that a blockade should include giving humanitarian aid and medicine and grocery and food and needs. Israel does that. It is written and it is known that trucks carry tons of food and humanitarian needs to the strip every week, if not less.

So no, we're not "fucked up", and the blockade is legal.

As I stated before, when you only allow 15 trucks a day, into an area that needs 700 trucks a day, to sustain it's daily needs, that's not living up to your humanitarian obligations.

2. One can say that the blockade is in order to "punish" the Palestinian for electing Hamas. The decision to push this blockade forward was a governmental issue, and was decided and accepted by the high court of Israel. The high court of Israel, if doing the most basic checking, is controled by the left wing. so I find it hard to accept that ministers and prime ministers changed, the high court says nothing, and we do this blockade just to "punish" the Palestinians for voting democratically. I simply don't buy that. Sorry.

So it was just a coincedence, that the blockade started, right after Hamas was elected?

The blockade is being put on a hostile community which causes risk to us. this hostile community was responsible for deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people (American citizens among them, btw). you could say we "punish", but then you would have looked through a very narrow path, completely ignoring the Israeli reason.

After 45 years of Israeli oppression, you're surprized they get hostile?

3. If I'm driving up my driveway, do you think I'm parking on your lawn?

Wrong comparison. I don't know you, and you don't influence me in any way.

But "our lawn" is Gaza, and Gaza's lawn is "south Israel". anything that happens in Gaza influence Israel in the immediate time period. one cannot ignore that.

Wrong! Gaza's lawn, is Gaza's. Your lawn, is yours. You don't hold sway over someone else's property. If you can't see how wrong that kind of thinking is, come on over to my house and try to build a fence on my lawn and see what happens next. If I catch you on my property without permission, fucking up my lawn, I'm gonna kick your ass! Then I'm gonna call the cops and have you arrested for tresspassing.

4. "Israel has done things worth hating".

I completely agree. I never said Israel is pure of any wrong. I disagree with putting all the blaim on us, I agree with Mr Tinmore's thinking that it's only "our war" and that the Palestinians wimply wait and do nothing when we solve our issue.

No one puts all the blame on Israel. Why do you keep bringing this shit up? I've never said they're soley at fault. They do have the majority of the blame. That's the bed you make, when you're the occupying power. Your the aggressor. So you get most of the blame. People don't usually think bullies are merely defending themselves. And Israel is a bully.

I disagree with the way outsiders tags Israelis, and I think that what really matters is things that you experience, to make judgement.

You think the same thing about insiders who tag Israeli's the same way.

5. "scapegoat" Islam like was done to the Jews?

I am not sure I know what " scapegoat" is,

Google it.

 

[Lipush]

You say you hate hypocrisy? I well hate hipocrisy, as well.

And you know why We Israelis don't give a crap about human rights groups?

No, you just don't give a shit about human rights, period.

because we know who fund them, who stands behind them, and to what kind of things they get stick to, like a dog with a bone, and to what kind of things they tend to ignore.

Huh?

No, that's what illogical reasoning is.

That's their stated goal.

That's because the other side of the border won't talk to them. They asked for access to the people in charge who took part in the operations, the boots on the ground, so to speak, but were denied access by the Israeli government.

Well, it wouldn't be worse in the other, if the other, would just stop breaking the law and committing crimes against humanity. When someone commits a crime, the last thing people should do, is to worry about making things worse for the criminal. If he didn't want things to get worse, he shouldn't have committed the crime!

Do you really expect them to look the other way when you murder a para-palegic?

What's up with that? Was the Mossad to busy to handle it themselves, so they contracted out to al Qaeda? Farmed out the work to one of their competitors?

Doesn't surprize me. We pay the Taliban to guard our convoys in Afghanistan. As long the check clears, they won't shoot at us.

That's in reference to 45 years of oppression the Israeli's have been inflicting on the Palestinian's.

and that there is no reason why people in south Israel should complain about a situation they themselves caused.

I don't know what he's talking about there, unless the people in the south are in these illegal settlements. Then they're nothing but jewish insurgents. But I will say, Israeli citizens, living in Israel, should not be targeted for attack.

To a mother that her son was almost killed by "freedom fightered".

Human rights activist.

What a bloody JOKE.

You know, if showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story.

Hey, I just realized your last statement, proved your first statement. We've come full circle. How 'bout that? You started your post claiming you hated hypocrisy, then you ended it, demonstrating hypocrisy. You want us to feel sorry for Israeli children, but then turn around and argue the legality of a blockade that punishes an entire population of Gazan children. And when presented with the evidence showing the amount of suffering Gazan children are having to endure, you're not interested in even discussing it. Yet, you expect people to have concern for Israeli children.

THANK YOU.

Your saying, that "If you showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story", has completely nailed my point.

In which I will adress to the point again, of which I really hate hypocrisy.

As an American, the Palestinian conflict with the Israelis doesn't affect youu. Of course, you like all Americans, worry for where your taxes go, but you don't feel the danger and difficulty of this conflict on your flesh.

Guess what, sugar? I do.

So this statement of yours, besided proving my point, is also misplaced.

do you think it's fair, Mr Loinboy, to preach morales that you won't be able to stand in yourself if walking in my shoes?

I don't think it is.

I have said in previous posts to Mr Tinmore, and Saigon, that I am not pretending to be something that I am not, and I don't search for answers in case I am not interested in them.

I lived in south Israel all my life. I don't remember any other home besides the Negev desert. I don't remember any other view from my house then the hills of sand.

And just like the Palestinians on the other side, my home is at risk. Every time a Palestinian is injured or killed in Gaza, I know that will influence me.

When cast lead took place, we have all seen the pictures, what happened in Gaza. Seeing a Palestinian mother weeping over her child is something that does something to your gut, and I did felt something seeing it. But 5 minutes later, when MY home was bombed, The only thing I could think of what "To bad you didn't die with your child and all your family".

situations where that I could look at those images and feel nothing. Heck, when one of those rockets injured a friend of mine in the navy, I personally wanted Gaza on flames. I felt JOY when seeing the stills of the war. All of those pretty souls here could "tsk tsk" me now, but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

I have said it before, that when my house, my town, anything I know as home, is bombed, destroyed, ruined, by people that condemn collective punishment, but in their hypocrist have NO PROBLEM doing it to US, don't they try to preach us morales. I have no power, no interest, and no need, to feel great empathy for a mother in Gaza, when I am to worried about mothers in Israel. when I am worried about my OWN mother. Because she's sick, and invalid, and she cannot run to the bomb shelter. Does the mother in Gaza think of that? no. Then why should I?

Why should YOU think I SHOULD care more about the happenings in Gaza than the happenings in south Israel?

In case you were in my position, you would not have. I bet niether of you, to call us ZioNazis, would have done better in our position.

So you lecture me about not feeling empathy for a mother in Gaza? for mocking those human rights activists?

Really?

 

[rhodescholar]

You really love to play that "jew-card"! When you have no more arguments left, you always have your "hate jews speech". Whether it applys or not, you use it like a renewable condom.

Because you stupid, low class fucking immature scumbag idiot, it sums you up.

You first claim to be "objective", then get exposed as being not. You attack others for going off topic, which you do in the next post.

You make idiotic, factually wrong claims like the blockade being illegal, and other idiocies, get proven wrong, and either change the topic or attack the poster and make up some other BS.

Simply put, you're a weak poster and most of us skip over your posts. You're lack of knowledge on the mideast would embarrass someone with even a small amount if intelligence, that you are too stupid to realize how bad you look is even more so.

 

[Billo_Really]

Because you stupid, low class fucking immature scumbag idiot, it sums you up.

You first claim to be "objective", then get exposed as being not. You attack others for going off topic, which you do in the next post.

You make idiotic, factually wrong claims like the blockade being illegal, and other idiocies, get proven wrong, and either change the topic or attack the poster and make up some other BS.

Simply put, you're a weak poster and most of us skip over your posts. You're lack of knowledge on the mideast would embarrass someone with even a small amount if intelligence, that you are too stupid to realize how bad you look is even more so.

I also like long walks on the beach, a good book and red wine with my dinner.

 

[true]

And yes isn't that a dandy idea, lets help them, so they can be strong enough to kill Israel, no!!! how about they say sorry to Israel, and allow Israel to govern over them

 

[Hossfly]

And yes isn't that a dandy idea, lets help them, so they can be strong enough to kill Israel, no!!! how about they say sorry to Israel, and allow Israel to govern over them

Who izzit you be talkin' to?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You say you hate hypocrisy? I well hate hipocrisy, as well.

And you know why We Israelis don't give a crap about human rights groups?

No, you just don't give a shit about human rights, period.

Huh?

No, that's what illogical reasoning is.

That's their stated goal.

That's because the other side of the border won't talk to them. They asked for access to the people in charge who took part in the operations, the boots on the ground, so to speak, but were denied access by the Israeli government.

Well, it wouldn't be worse in the other, if the other, would just stop breaking the law and committing crimes against humanity. When someone commits a crime, the last thing people should do, is to worry about making things worse for the criminal. If he didn't want things to get worse, he shouldn't have committed the crime!

Do you really expect them to look the other way when you murder a para-palegic?

What's up with that? Was the Mossad to busy to handle it themselves, so they contracted out to al Qaeda? Farmed out the work to one of their competitors?

Doesn't surprize me. We pay the Taliban to guard our convoys in Afghanistan. As long the check clears, they won't shoot at us.

That's in reference to 45 years of oppression the Israeli's have been inflicting on the Palestinian's.

I don't know what he's talking about there, unless the people in the south are in these illegal settlements. Then they're nothing but jewish insurgents. But I will say, Israeli citizens, living in Israel, should not be targeted for attack.

To a mother that her son was almost killed by "freedom fightered".

Human rights activist.

What a bloody JOKE.

You know, if showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story.

Hey, I just realized your last statement, proved your first statement. We've come full circle. How 'bout that? You started your post claiming you hated hypocrisy, then you ended it, demonstrating hypocrisy. You want us to feel sorry for Israeli children, but then turn around and argue the legality of a blockade that punishes an entire population of Gazan children. And when presented with the evidence showing the amount of suffering Gazan children are having to endure, you're not interested in even discussing it. Yet, you expect people to have concern for Israeli children.

THANK YOU.

Your saying, that "If you showed any concern for Gazan children, I might have shown some empathy for that mother; but since you have, on a number of occasions, shown complete condemnation and disdain for the suffering of Palestinian children, I could care less about that mothers story", has completely nailed my point.

In which I will adress to the point again, of which I really hate hypocrisy.

As an American, the Palestinian conflict with the Israelis doesn't affect youu. Of course, you like all Americans, worry for where your taxes go, but you don't feel the danger and difficulty of this conflict on your flesh.

Guess what, sugar? I do.

So this statement of yours, besided proving my point, is also misplaced.

do you think it's fair, Mr Loinboy, to preach morales that you won't be able to stand in yourself if walking in my shoes?

I don't think it is.

I have said in previous posts to Mr Tinmore, and Saigon, that I am not pretending to be something that I am not, and I don't search for answers in case I am not interested in them.

I lived in south Israel all my life. I don't remember any other home besides the Negev desert. I don't remember any other view from my house then the hills of sand.

And just like the Palestinians on the other side, my home is at risk. Every time a Palestinian is injured or killed in Gaza, I know that will influence me.

When cast lead took place, we have all seen the pictures, what happened in Gaza. Seeing a Palestinian mother weeping over her child is something that does something to your gut, and I did felt something seeing it. But 5 minutes later, when MY home was bombed, The only thing I could think of what "To bad you didn't die with your child and all your family".

situations where that I could look at those images and feel nothing. Heck, when one of those rockets injured a friend of mine in the navy, I personally wanted Gaza on flames. I felt JOY when seeing the stills of the war. All of those pretty souls here could "tsk tsk" me now, but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

I have said it before, that when my house, my town, anything I know as home, is bombed, destroyed, ruined, by people that condemn collective punishment, but in their hypocrist have NO PROBLEM doing it to US, don't they try to preach us morales. I have no power, no interest, and no need, to feel great empathy for a mother in Gaza, when I am to worried about mothers in Israel. when I am worried about my OWN mother. Because she's sick, and invalid, and she cannot run to the bomb shelter. Does the mother in Gaza think of that? no. Then why should I?

Why should YOU think I SHOULD care more about the happenings in Gaza than the happenings in south Israel?

In case you were in my position, you would not have. I bet niether of you, to call us ZioNazis, would have done better in our position.

So you lecture me about not feeling empathy for a mother in Gaza? for mocking those human rights activists?

Really?

...but those who never been in a war don't have any idea what it brings out of you.

Indeed, you should get Israel to stop its war against Palestine.

 

[Billo_Really]

And yes isn't that a dandy idea, lets help them, so they can be strong enough to kill Israel, no!!! how about they say sorry to Israel, and allow Israel to govern over them

Who izzit you be talkin' to?

And what izit, ibi sayin'?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

These agencies should pull out of Gaza and stop giving aid and comfort to terrorism.

Right. Because every person in Gaza is a terrorist.

Honestly, Art, this really is absolutely henious posting.

How long have you been a supportoer of guilty until proven innocent?

On how many occassions can you name a country which has been helped by forcing its people even further into poverty?

I never wrote that everybody in Gaza is a terrorist. But lying seems to second nature to you.

It is however a fact that Gaza is controlled by a terrorist organization, Hamas. As long as Hamas is in charge in Gaza all international bodies and organizations should pull out. Hamas is outside the bounds of the civilized world.

There are 196 countries in our world, only 4 of those 196 countries consider Hamas a terrorist organization. I do not consider them a terrorist organization, I consider them an organization that sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror, just like Israel is a State who also sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror.

So, no, I do not agree that Gaza is controlled by a terrorist organization. I have no obligation to accept my country's faulty labelling and demonizing of others, I choose to follow Jesus command to love my enemies over my country's command to hate them.

And regardless of what Hamas is, the fact is there is a civilian population in Gaza of 1.7 million human beings. They have the same basic human rights all human beings have, and that includes a right to not be targeted in military operations, to not be starved of their basic needs, and NGO's and human rights groups will always be where people are hurting and have humanitarian crisis and humanitarian needs. I suppport their continued presence in Gaza, that is what people of conscience do, they reach out and they help people with needs and those in crisis.

Sherri

 

[Saigon]

I do not consider them a terrorist organization, I consider them an organization that sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror, just like Israel is a State who also sometimes chooses to engage in acts of terror.

I certainly agree that there are a million people in Gaza who are not terrorists, and deserve the same rights in life as any other person, but I do think Hamas is a terror organisation.

Terror is central to Hamas's basic tennents, and until they recognise Israels' right to exist and abandon terror as a method, they can not be considered a political party.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

If Israel lifts the blockade the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians wouldn't smuggle in any weapons to be used against Israel, right Tinmore?

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Fifty international aid groups and U.N. agencies on Thursday urged Israel to open Gaza's borders, saying its border blockade violates international law and indiscriminately harms Gaza's 1.6 million people.

However, international aid agencies say the blockade mainly punishes ordinary Gazans by crippling the territory's economy, forcing foreign donors to spend money on humanitarian relief instead of investing in the economy.

"What Gaza needs is real development, but because of the blockade we are obliged to concentrate on humanitarian work," Filippo Grandi, head of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, told reporters in Gaza on Thursday. UNRWA is Gaza's biggest foreign agency, supporting some 1.2 million refugees and their descendants in the territory.

Spending on emergency needs, such as food and medicine, does not address fundamental problems, Grandi said. "In fact, it's a waste of money, but a waste we are obliged to make because of the blockade," he added.

50 aid groups demand Israel lift Gaza blockade - Yahoo! News

MJB,

Israel needs to lift the Blockade and end the Occupation, and then there would be no need for weapons to be smuggled. Of course, Palestinians should freely be able to acquire weapons, just like Israel is allowed to do this.

Why do you see Palestinians as children of a lesser God?

Just because Lipush's Rabbis in Israel see Creation as for Jews alone, that does not mean the rest of the 8 billion nonJews in our world have to simply accept that and accept being children of a lesser God.

I do not accept that I, a Believer in Jesus Christ and an American, am a child of a lesser God. Nor are Palestinians or other Arabs or other residents of the Middle East, children of a lesser God.

Children of a Lesser God

Sherri