4 year old child killed in Gaza bombing

[Darkwind]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

 

[Kondor3]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Incorrect.

Hamas war-assets were targeted.

That those assets were positioned by cowardly Hamas scum, within civilian population centers, is a misfortune for those ruled by the bottom feeders of Hamas.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

Yes, putting civilians in Israel's targets.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

Maybe Israel needs to make some overtures to the Palestinians to make them want to throw out Hamas. As long as Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilian areas and killing people it's just going to make more people sympathetic to Hamas.

 

[Darkwind]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

Yes, putting civilians in Israel's targets.

No, the civilians were there prior to Hamas hiding their assets among them.

Pretty cowardly of them in My opinion. Each and every leader in Hamas needs to stand trial for premeditated murder.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Incorrect.

Hamas war-assets were targeted.

That those assets were positioned by cowardly Hamas scum, within civilian population centers, is a misfortune for those ruled by the bottom feeders of Hamas.

Yes, it is, and since, as you admit, those assets were placed in civilian centers the civilians themselves were also targeted. Again, I'm not justifying anything Hamas is doing. I'd love to see them gone as much as anybody, but it's hypocritical and disgusting to only blame one side as so many are doing. When you justify Israeli killing of civilians you likewise justify Hamas doing the same to Israeli civilians. The only logical position is to condemn both.

 

[Darkwind]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

Maybe Israel needs to make some overtures to the Palestinians to make them want to throw out Hamas. As long as Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilian areas and killing people it's just going to make more people sympathetic to Hamas.

There is nothing indiscriminate about it. They are deliberately targeting Hamas military assets and leaders. Legitimate actions in war.

Israel has made overtures to the Palestinian people. Get rid of Hamas and life gets better. As soon as Israel no longer feels threatened and no longer has to hide under a missile shield, then peace will reign.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

Yes, putting civilians in Israel's targets.

No, the civilians were there prior to Hamas hiding their assets among them.

Pretty cowardly of them in My opinion. Each and every leader in Hamas needs to stand trial for premeditated murder.

Agreed, and since Netanyahu and others in the Israeli government actually pulled the triggers they should stand trial right next to them.

 

[Darkwind]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Incorrect.

Hamas war-assets were targeted.

That those assets were positioned by cowardly Hamas scum, within civilian population centers, is a misfortune for those ruled by the bottom feeders of Hamas.

Yes, it is, and since, as you admit, those assets were placed in civilian centers the civilians themselves were also targeted. Again, I'm not justifying anything Hamas is doing. I'd love to see them gone as much as anybody, but it's hypocritical and disgusting to only blame one side as so many are doing. When you justify Israeli killing of civilians you likewise justify Hamas doing the same to Israeli civilians. The only logical position is to condemn both.

There is nothing hypocritical about it. If I target a missile battery that is in a school yard and the destruction of that missile battery kills a few civilians, I still have not targeted the civilians. I have targeted the missile battery. The civilian deaths now lay on the hands of those who hide the weapons on the school yard.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

Maybe Israel needs to make some overtures to the Palestinians to make them want to throw out Hamas. As long as Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilian areas and killing people it's just going to make more people sympathetic to Hamas.

There is nothing indiscriminate about it. They are deliberately targeting Hamas military assets and leaders. Legitimate actions in war.

Israel has made overtures to the Palestinian people. Get rid of Hamas and life gets better. As soon as Israel no longer feels threatened and no longer has to hide under a missile shield, then peace will reign.

When your actions kill innocent civilians they cease to be legitimate. If an officer fires into a crowd after a fleeing suspect is his action legitimate?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Incorrect.

Hamas war-assets were targeted.

That those assets were positioned by cowardly Hamas scum, within civilian population centers, is a misfortune for those ruled by the bottom feeders of Hamas.

Yes, it is, and since, as you admit, those assets were placed in civilian centers the civilians themselves were also targeted. Again, I'm not justifying anything Hamas is doing. I'd love to see them gone as much as anybody, but it's hypocritical and disgusting to only blame one side as so many are doing. When you justify Israeli killing of civilians you likewise justify Hamas doing the same to Israeli civilians. The only logical position is to condemn both.

There is nothing hypocritical about it. If I target a missile battery that is in a school yard and the destruction of that missile battery kills a few civilians, I still have not targeted the civilians. I have targeted the missile battery. The civilian deaths now lay on the hands of those who hide the weapons on the school yard.

Yes, you have, because you knew those civilians were there. The deaths are on the hands of both the people who hid the weapons there and the people who knowingly killed the civilians.

 

[Darkwind]

Yes, you have, because you knew those civilians were there. The deaths are on the hands of both the people who hid the weapons there and the people who knowingly killed the civilians.

This is where we are going to agree to disagree.

It is an unreasonable expectation to allow a man to kill your family simply because he holds a hostage. In defending My family and/or My country, I will target the weapons of My enemy, and My enemy. I will not, however, allow My enemy's cowardice to hamstring Me and get My country or family killed.

If innocents die because the enemy deliberately hides behind their skirts of their women, then that crime is upon them for not taking the fight to a neutral location.

Now, its time for Me to bail as I cannot spend hours in a back and forth that will not be productive.

 

[Indofred]

Shocking.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-mortar-attack-kills-4yearold-boy-in-israel-9686493.html

I suppose this is collateral damage, as all the other children who have been killed?

Not at all - the pro Israel, pro mass murder lot, assure us the dead are all Hamas fighters.
Clearly he age is a lie, and he was just a midget Hamas fighter, not a little child who just wanted to play with his toys.

Fuck the IDF.

 

[Kondor3]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

Yes, putting civilians in Israel's targets.

No, the civilians were there prior to Hamas hiding their assets among them.

Pretty cowardly of them in My opinion. Each and every leader in Hamas needs to stand trial for premeditated murder.

Agreed, and since Netanyahu and others in the Israeli government actually pulled the triggers they should stand trial right next to them.

Incorrect.

It is not a crime to coincidentally inflict civilian casualties in pursuit of legitimate war-making targets.

Otherwise Franklin Roosevelt or Harry Truman or Winston Churchill or Josef Stalin would have stood trial for war crimes in light of the hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties that they inflicted through their air forces and artillery and armor, in bombarding Axis war-assets placed too close to (or embedded within) civilian population centers.

You can play at automatic gainsay from now until the cows come home, but that dog won't hunt.

 

[Kondor3]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

Maybe Israel needs to make some overtures to the Palestinians to make them want to throw out Hamas. As long as Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilian areas and killing people it's just going to make more people sympathetic to Hamas.

There is nothing indiscriminate about it. They are deliberately targeting Hamas military assets and leaders. Legitimate actions in war.

Israel has made overtures to the Palestinian people. Get rid of Hamas and life gets better. As soon as Israel no longer feels threatened and no longer has to hide under a missile shield, then peace will reign.

When your actions kill innocent civilians they cease to be legitimate. If an officer fires into a crowd after a fleeing suspect is his action legitimate?

Nonsense.

Civilians lose their legal protection when they are positioned too closely to war-assets.

Especially when they remain nearby such assets willingly and when their side is utilizing them to hide behind.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If Hamas don't want innocent civilians to die, (which I very much doubt), then they shouldn't hide by them, because they are commiting war crimes by doing so.

That's just it: Hamas does want innocent civilians to die. That's not an excuse for Israel to simply mow them down, however.

Israel has not been 'mowing down' innocent Gazan civilians.

Israel has been inflicting Gazan civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations.

There's no such thing as legitimate targeting of civilians.

Now, all you have to do is to prove that civilians were being targeted and you're all set.

As things stand now, we're talking about civilians collateral casualties, while legitimate wartime (military) targeting was underway.

Civilian neighborhoods were targeted, thus civilians were targeted. Pretty simple.

Military assets hidden in civilian neighborhoods were targeted. Pretty simple.

Yes, putting civilians in Israel's targets.

No, the civilians were there prior to Hamas hiding their assets among them.

Pretty cowardly of them in My opinion. Each and every leader in Hamas needs to stand trial for premeditated murder.

Agreed, and since Netanyahu and others in the Israeli government actually pulled the triggers they should stand trial right next to them.

Incorrect.

It is not a crime to coincidentally inflict civilian casualties in pursuit of legitimate war-making targets.

Otherwise Franklin Roosevelt or Harry Truman or Winston Churchill or Josef Stalin would have stood trial for war crimes in light of the hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties that they inflicted through their air forces and artillery and armor, in bombarding Axis war-assets placed too close to (or embedded within) civilian population centers.

You can play at automatic gainsay from now until the cows come home, but that dog won't hunt.

Now you're getting it: All of those men should have stood trial for their crimes against humanity. The fact that they didn't has nothing to do with whether they were right, but the fact that they won.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you want Palestinians to br disarmed and subjects of Israel DW?

I want the Palestinians to grow up, turn their focus and energy on throwing out Hamas and the PLO and to start living like the rest of the civilized world. That means they throw out missles and other weapons used against Israel, provide proof of that, and then start to build their economy.

I am quite confident that if Israel has proof that the threat against them is over, that Gaza will be opened for business with the world and Israel.

Simply lay down your arms and live in peace.

Oh, and btw...before you say it. Nowhere do I advocate that the Palestinians subjugate themselves to Israel. Only to stop attacking them.

Maybe Israel needs to make some overtures to the Palestinians to make them want to throw out Hamas. As long as Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilian areas and killing people it's just going to make more people sympathetic to Hamas.

There is nothing indiscriminate about it. They are deliberately targeting Hamas military assets and leaders. Legitimate actions in war.

Israel has made overtures to the Palestinian people. Get rid of Hamas and life gets better. As soon as Israel no longer feels threatened and no longer has to hide under a missile shield, then peace will reign.

When your actions kill innocent civilians they cease to be legitimate. If an officer fires into a crowd after a fleeing suspect is his action legitimate?

Nonsense.

Civilians lose their legal protection when they are positioned too closely to war-assets.

Especially when they remain nearby such assets willingly and when their side is utilizing them to hide behind.

So when a criminal runs into a crowd that crowd loses their legal protection and right to live, even though they had nothing to do with the criminal and likely had no idea what was going on in the first place?

 

[Kondor3]

...Now you're getting it: All of those men should have stood trial for their crimes against humanity. The fact that they didn't has nothing to do with whether they were right, but the fact that they won.

As I said before, that dog won't hunt.

According to your logic... if you embed rocket launchers in your living room, then fire at me and my family, it would be criminal of me to fire back, because I might hit your family.

The Real World doesn't work like that.

Never has.

Never will.

Next slide, please.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

...Now you're getting it: All of those men should have stood trial for their crimes against humanity. The fact that they didn't has nothing to do with whether they were right, but the fact that they won.

As I said before, that dog won't hunt.

According to your logic... if you embed rocket launchers in your living room, then fire at me and my family, it would be criminal of me to fire back, because I might hit your family.

The Real World doesn't work like that.

Never has.

Never will.

Next slide, please.

No, according to my logic it would be criminal for you to hit my family, or my neighbors, assuming they're innocent of the crime for which I committed in your analogy. You completely ignore the analogy of the officer firing into a crowd because you have no answer for it. There's a reason police aren't supposed to fire into the crowd after fleeing suspects, and that's because they're not supposed to hurt innocent civilians in the hunt for a suspect.

 

[Kondor3]

...Now you're getting it: All of those men should have stood trial for their crimes against humanity. The fact that they didn't has nothing to do with whether they were right, but the fact that they won.

As I said before, that dog won't hunt.

According to your logic... if you embed rocket launchers in your living room, then fire at me and my family, it would be criminal of me to fire back, because I might hit your family.

The Real World doesn't work like that.

Never has.

Never will.

Next slide, please.

No, according to my logic it would be criminal for you to hit my family, or my neighbors, assuming they're innocent of the crime for which I committed in your analogy. You completely ignore the analogy of the officer firing into a crowd because you have no answer for it. There's a reason police aren't supposed to fire into the crowd after fleeing suspects, and that's because they're not supposed to hurt innocent civilians in the hunt for a suspect.

Your policeman firing into a crowd scenario is a canard in this instance.

Other than that, your so-called logic has you positioned just north of Never-Never Land.

It's simply not Real World thinking.

Automatic gainsay... did too, did not... am too, am not... is too, is not... is painful enough and pointless enough when dealing with Reality, but, when dealing with some kind of Alternate Universe in which such things might be operative, well, there's simply no profit in such an exchange.

Inflicting civilian casualties during the course of legitimate wartime targeting operations is both justifiable and defensible, regardless of the way in which you would like The Universe to operate.