2009 Budget deficit to be largest ever

[Chris]

We simply can't take on a multi-trillion dollar system. If we do the US government will implode with huge deficits....

We already have universal healthcare for people over 65. We can do it. It just takes the political will.

Universal healthcare can be done. Alternative energy can be done. If we don't do both, we will be a much poorer country in the long run.

 

[Zoomie1980]

What a brilliant post. All researchers are just in it for the money. You do know that some researchers donate their Nobel Prize money to charities? You are so smart, I know you knew that.

Berkeley Nobel laureates donate prize money to charity

Noyori gets Nobel prize money, says he intends to donate.

Nobel Laureate Yunus to Donate His Prize Money

RTÉ News: Hume to donate Nobel prize money

Prize winner to donate funds from Israeli university to Arab researchers

And who is going to get that research to the masses? Those WHO CAN MAKE MONEY off it. The Nobel laureates still have to get their breakthroughs to the masses. That does not happen without the companies that manufacture those ideas into real pills. And they exist for NO OTHER REASON execpt to MAKE MONEY for the SHAREHOLDERS!!!!!

Do you NOT GET THAT????????? YOu pay people enough they will SAVE YOUR LIVE if they can. You do not? They will piss on your grave!

 

[Zoomie1980]

We already have universal healthcare for people over 65. We can do it. It just takes the political will.

Universal healthcare can be done. Alternative energy can be done. If we don't do both, we will be a much poorer country in the long run.

Universal healthcare can work only universal PARTICIPATION. That means EVERYONE, even those at MINIMUM WAGE, pay MANDATORY PREMIUMS. You play, you PAY!!!!! Otherwise, IT WILL NOT WORK

 

[Zoomie1980]

That cure for cancer, have they found it yet?

Give them enough money and they will. Do not, and they will find something else to do.

 

[Chris]

And who is going to get that research to the masses? Those WHO CAN MAKE MONEY off it. The Nobel laureates still have to get their breakthroughs to the masses. That does not happen without the companies that manufacture those ideas into real pills. And they exist for NO OTHER REASON execpt to MAKE MONEY for the SHAREHOLDERS!!!!!

Do you NOT GET THAT????????? YOu pay people enough they will SAVE YOUR LIVE if they can. You do not? They will piss on your grave!

If you say so.

In a single payer system, Big Pharma still makes money, just not as much.

Every other Western country uses a single payer system.

Why?

Because it is cheaper, better, and more fair.

 

[jreeves]

I know you don't read any of the links I provide.

If you click on this link, and then click on the names of the winners, you will see that most of the discoveries in medicine were made by universities in Europe and America. Those damn socialists in Britain have won quite a few Nobel prizes for medicine, but I know they are just mooching off our for profit system.

All Nobel Laureates in Medicine

In real terms, spending on American biomedical research has doubled since 1994. By 2003, spending was up to $94.3 billion (there is no comparable number for Europe), with 57 percent of that coming from private industry. The National Institutes of Health’s current annual research budget is $28 billion, All European Union governments, in contrast, spent $3.7 billion in 2000, and since that time, Europe has not narrowed the research and development gap. America spends more on research and development over all and on drugs in particular, even though the United States has a smaller population than the core European Union countries. From 1989 to 2002, four times as much money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.
Dr. Thomas Boehm of Jerini, a biomedical research company in Berlin, titled his article in The Journal of Medical Marketing in 2005 “How Can We Explain the American Dominance in Biomedical Research and Development?” (ostina.org/downloads/pdfs/bridgesvol7_BoehmArticle.pdf) Dr. Boehm argues that the research environment in the United States, compared with Europe, is wealthier, more competitive, more meritocratic and more tolerant of waste and chaos. He argues that these features lead to more medical discoveries. About 400,000 European researchers are living in the United States, usually for superior financial compensation and research facilities.

Americans do not live longer than people in other countries in part because the innovations that get funded in America get used around the world. In Canada and some European countries drugs are sold for lower prices than in the US. So drug companies make most of their profits and therefore get most of their revenue to fund research by selling products in the United States. Effectively the United States is subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world.
FuturePundit: Tyler Cowen: High US Medical Spending Spurs Innovation

 

[Zoomie1980]

If you say so.

In a single payer system, Big Pharma still makes money, just not as much.

Every other Western country uses a single payer system.

Why?

Because it is cheaper, better, and more fair.

We are still a SELFCENTERED species. We will not do a DAMNED THING unless we have PERSONAL incentive to do so. Deny that, we will simply flip you off. that's how we work as a species. Pay me enough and i will do almost anything for you. Do not and i will ignore you as a non-entity. Die, and I will not even notice or care. I might use your rotted remains as fertilizer for my garden

 

[jreeves]

If you say so.

In a single payer system, Big Pharma still makes money, just not as much.

Every other Western country uses a single payer system.

Why?

Because it is cheaper, better, and more fair.

We need healthcare reform to cut costs not a multi-trillion dollar system....

 

[Chris]

We need healthcare reform to cut costs not a multi-trillion dollar system....

Sorry, we are ranked 37th in the world in healthcare inspite of spending twice as much per capita as everyone else. The rest of the world does it better than us, and we need to change.

 

[Chris]

In real terms, spending on American biomedical research has doubled since 1994. By 2003, spending was up to $94.3 billion (there is no comparable number for Europe), with 57 percent of that coming from private industry. The National Institutes of Health’s current annual research budget is $28 billion, All European Union governments, in contrast, spent $3.7 billion in 2000, and since that time, Europe has not narrowed the research and development gap. America spends more on research and development over all and on drugs in particular, even though the United States has a smaller population than the core European Union countries. From 1989 to 2002, four times as much money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.
Dr. Thomas Boehm of Jerini, a biomedical research company in Berlin, titled his article in The Journal of Medical Marketing in 2005 “How Can We Explain the American Dominance in Biomedical Research and Development?” (ostina.org/downloads/pdfs/bridgesvol7_BoehmArticle.pdf) Dr. Boehm argues that the research environment in the United States, compared with Europe, is wealthier, more competitive, more meritocratic and more tolerant of waste and chaos. He argues that these features lead to more medical discoveries. About 400,000 European researchers are living in the United States, usually for superior financial compensation and research facilities.

Americans do not live longer than people in other countries in part because the innovations that get funded in America get used around the world. In Canada and some European countries drugs are sold for lower prices than in the US. So drug companies make most of their profits and therefore get most of their revenue to fund research by selling products in the United States. Effectively the United States is subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world.
FuturePundit: Tyler Cowen: High US Medical Spending Spurs Innovation

Did it ever occur to you that drugs and surgery are not the key to good health?

 

[DiamondDave]

Sorry, we are ranked 37th in the world in healthcare inspite of spending twice as much per capita as everyone else. The rest of the world does it better than us, and we need to change.

And how it is ranked means a ton.. there is no doubt that we have the absolute top notch and most advanced healthcare in the world.. we lead the way in curing previously incurable diseases. We lead the way in groundbreaking techniques and advances in heart and brain surgeries, limb reattachment, etc... and funny, those things cost, hence the cost of healthcare costs more than a place like Cuba where they probably still use leeches and ritual bleeding into coconut shells

The rest of the world does not do 'better' than us....

 

[Care4all]

Oh yeah just like that 700 billion dollars that leave this country every year to pay for oil, to alot of rouge nations that has our demise as their end goal. That 700 billion dollars doesn't even include the lost tax revenue we would gain from domestic oil companies. But maybe your changing your tune, do you now support more domestic drilling and oil shale development?


Sure Obama will have surpluses by the end of his first term, with multi-trillion dollar healthcare entitlement. Sure....

the $700 billion is NOT GVT TAX monies going overseas? It is OUR money, the oil/gasoline purchaser's money?

obama, or any future president will NOT be able to balance the budget for another 4 to 10 years, even with cuts and tax hikes imo....

care

 

[DiamondDave]

the $700 billion is NOT GVT TAX monies going overseas? It is OUR money, the oil/gasoline purchaser's money?

obama, or any future president will NOT be able to balance the budget for another 4 to 10 years, even with cuts and tax hikes imo....

care

Or a trillion dollars in new spending, like he is calling for

 

[editec]

Research only occurrs when the researchers have an expectation to get rich off the research. They don't GIVE A DAMN about saving humanity. They want MONEY. Deny them that and they will simply not even try.

You get that? If not, then you are too stupid to live.

They will not even try? I rather doubt that people who are enarmoured by science will stop doing it if they're not reaching for the gold ring.

especially because

Medical researcher (indeed most researchers) seldom get rich. They are typically well off and paid salaries and sometimes bonuses.

they typically do NOT own the patents stemming from their research, sport.

Typically those outcomes are owned by the companies who pay them their salaries and pay for the the labs, and so forth.

You get that? If not, then you are too stupid to live

You really need to get a handle on your anger management issues, amigo.

 

[Chris]

And how it is ranked means a ton.. there is no doubt that we have the absolute top notch and most advanced healthcare in the world.. we lead the way in curing previously incurable diseases. We lead the way in groundbreaking techniques and advances in heart and brain surgeries, limb reattachment, etc... and funny, those things cost, hence the cost of healthcare costs more than a place like Cuba where they probably still use leeches and ritual bleeding into coconut shells

The rest of the world does not do 'better' than us....

We lead the world in people not covered by healthcare and expensive unnecessary surgery.

 

[Care4all]

Give them enough money and they will. Do not, and they will find something else to do.

like what zoomie? do you think scientists will just change their field? if sooooo, to what?

THE TAXPAYER funds research and development as it is....we give grants to the universities for the new research and development? we give tax breaks and grants to the pharma industry for what they spend on R and D?


the ''system'' CAN BE REVISED in the pharma industry where ALL COUNTRIES contribute to the cost of R and D.....not just the USA citizen who for 45 million, never even get the benefits, because they have no health care coverage at all....even after their own taxes help pay for the research and development...

these steps would have to be taken, to bring costs down, before i would ever agree to any kind of universal health care system....

care

 

[DiamondDave]

We lead the world in people not covered by healthcare and expensive unnecessary surgery.

And everyone else is responsible for your care and you are not? We are supposed to tell people that earn and can afford something legal, that they cannot have it? We are supposed to make cosmetic or other surgeries YOU deem unworthy, illegal?

Typical lib

 

[busara]

Or a trillion dollars in new spending, like he is calling for

ok, this is for diamond, jreeves, rgs, allie, and everyone else who has been commenting on universal health care.

OBAMA ISNT CALLING FOR THE GOVT TO PAY FOR EVERY SINGLE EXPENSE FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON

it is an insurance plan people will have the OPTION to buy into. they can keep their current insurance. business will still pay for their insurance, and will be required to pay a % of payroll into the national plan if they dont offer their own. there will be a program set up to help people buy into and monitor private insurance. states are free to set up their own health plans.

now stop talking like the govt is going to suddenly take all health costs into their hands. and stop including medicare and medicaid in your 'trillions of dollars' argument, as that money will be spent regardless of who is in office.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the $700 billion is NOT GVT TAX monies going overseas? It is OUR money, the oil/gasoline purchaser's money?

obama, or any future president will NOT be able to balance the budget for another 4 to 10 years, even with cuts and tax hikes imo....

care

He has no intention of doing so, He wants to create a HUGE new Government entitlement programs. Exactly WHERE do you think he is going to get that money?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

ok, this is for diamond, jreeves, rgs, allie, and everyone else who has been commenting on universal health care.

OBAMA ISNT CALLING FOR THE GOVT TO PAY FOR EVERY SINGLE EXPENSE FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON

it is an insurance plan people will have the OPTION to buy into. they can keep their current insurance. business will still pay for their insurance, and will be required to pay a % of payroll into the national plan if they dont offer their own. there will be a program set up to help people buy into and monitor private insurance. states are free to set up their own health plans.

now stop talking like the govt is going to suddenly take all health costs into their hands. and stop including medicare and medicaid in your 'trillions of dollars' argument, as that money will be spent regardless of who is in office.

You can try to deflect all you want. The Government will pay BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS trying to be big brother for everyone on Medicine. Where do YOU think the money will come from?