Zelensky is fighting Trump’s ceasefire efforts, "Russia must return all territory gained since 2014

[MisterBeale]

I'm gonna flip a coin as to whether it's Zelensky or Putin that pisses Trump off first.

If the deep state actually did keep Trump out of the loop that this was going to happen? He'll be most pissed at Hegseth for undermining his efforts.

OTH, is Trump did know? He is a certifiable lunatic.

I can't say which is more worrisome.

 

[The Duke]

If the deep state actually did keep Trump out of the loop that this was going to happen? He'll be most pissed at Hegseth for undermining his efforts.

OTH, is Trump did know? He is a certifiable lunatic.

I can't say which is more worrisome.

Trump is going to let them clobber the crap out of each other.
US was not involved the Ukey whatever the hell it was. ("degradation of nuclear blah blah blah")
Nobody wants to nuke Russia. Mainly people just want to be left alone.
If Putin came to me like that, I would do everything in my power to put something in between his eyebrows.
However, Zelensky poked the bear, and none of this has anything to do with me.
I like Ukraine. It's the breadbasket of Russia minus around Chernobyl.
As for Zelensky? That guy I do not like.

 

[MisterBeale]

Trump is going to let them clobber the crap out of each other.
US was not involved the Ukey whatever the hell it was.

How do you know this information?

Is this just your opinion, or do you have some information none of us do?



Even Jeffry Sachs has no clue about that;

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs : Can the US be Trusted?​

Streamed live 68 minutes ago

 

[The Duke]

t

How do you know this information?

Is this just your opinion, or do you have some information none of us do?



Even Jeffry Sachs has no clue about that;

Prof. Jeffrey Sachs : Can the US be Trusted?​

Streamed live 68 minutes ago

I reads teh tea leaves.
It's in the news, brah.
Neither side is doing anything towards peace and are slogging it out constantly so that is what is happening with them.
Rubio done did some Julius Ceasar washing of the hands of that.
Yes, that. Or it's more like a dad letting 2 fighting brothers duke it out until they find a better way on their own.
They ain't quite found their way, yet. When they do, the world will be a better place.
Tell ya what, I don't want any culture destroyed. Ukrainian or Russian or anything.

 

[rightwinger]

There is no need to "win over hearts and minds," of the regions of Ukraine that requested help from the Kremlin.

It's like you aren't even aware for the Minsk Agreements, or why those talks were necessary.

Regardless of how they felt about Russia before, the savagery of the Russian invasion has not helped.

Russia is not acting like a liberator

 

[JimH52]

No I don’t

Russia has not really won over the hearts and minds of those they occupy.

Destruction of bridges, water systems, communications, power grids, schools, hospitals…
Targeting civilian population, rape, torture, starvation

Indiscriminately killing civilians does not endear Poootin and Russia to the world.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

So you think it's a bad idea to bleed Russia dry?

Russia has nukes

 

[ding]

Russia has nukes

So what? We do too and ours work.

 

[MisterBeale]

Regardless of how they felt about Russia before, the savagery of the Russian invasion has not helped.

Russia is not acting like a liberator

. . . and what do you base this opinion on?

I have seen the refuge statistics about how many Ukrainians have fled where, frankly it belies this narrative and indicates that you haven't got the first clue on what you are going on about.

 

[rightwinger]

. . . and what do you base this opinion on?

I have seen the refuge statistics about how many Ukrainians have fled where, frankly it belies this narrative and indicates that you haven't got the first clue on what you are going on about.

My opinion is based on civilian targets of Russian attacks

Also reports of torture and rape from refugees

 

[MisterBeale]

Also reports of torture and rape from refugees

 

[Contumacious]

The President Trump = Zelensky interview no one saw

 

[JimH52]

My opinion is based on civilian targets of Russian attacks

Also reports of torture and rape from refugees

Russia is the new NAZI Germany.

 

[Zavulon]

Why did they leave Afghanistan?

For more or less the same reason why the USA left it. Military goals were achieved, building socialism or democracy there is not what the locals really wanted, it is not vital... So why not? But Ukraine is not "Russian Afghanistan". Ukraine is more of "Russian Confederacy". The people of the same language and culture, with some little but disgusting differences and absolutely unacceptable political and economical "vision". The Great Russia can't leave Small Russia, as the USA couldn't leave Southern secessionists. And as USA can control its Southern states, same way Russia can control Ukraine.

Russians don’t care if their soldiers are killed.
But the Russian economy can’t sustain a long term hostile occupation

There will be no "long term hostile occupation". In the lesser than a year, after proper procedures (including political purges), those regions became the most pro-Russian regions of the Russian Federation.

 

[Zavulon]

Trump is going to let them clobber the crap out of each other.
US was not involved the Ukey whatever the hell it was. ("degradation of nuclear blah blah blah")

It simply doesn't work that way in the nuclear deterrence. Both sides don't care who is responsible for the actions and is there anyone responsible at all. America had the choice - "to escalate" or "to de-escalate". America decided to escalate to the level "non-nuclear deniable proxy attacks against strategic nuclear assets". No problem, we can play this game, too. In less than a year "Houthies"/"Mexicans"/"Democrats"/whoever else, will start non-nuclear attacks against US bombers and SSBNs.

Nobody wants to nuke Russia. Mainly people just want to be left alone.

Yep. How it was before WWI? "Nobody wanted this war, the war was inevitable".

If Putin came to me like that, I would do everything in my power to put something in between his eyebrows.

Or, if your government started official discrimination of Black and Latin people, including some demonstrative cases of mass murders, if the opposition is banned, if there is no elections, of there are "language patrols" on the streets... May be, your opinion would be different.

However, Zelensky poked the bear, and none of this has anything to do with me.
I like Ukraine. It's the breadbasket of Russia minus around Chernobyl.
As for Zelensky? That guy I do not like.

It's not about what you like or dislike. It's more about survival and possibility of the equal rights and equal safety system. Talking about Zelenskiy as a person and an actor, I'd liked him (especially when he was mocking Americans and American culture). But his regime should be eliminated.

 

[MisterBeale]

It would appear that Zelenskyy isn't the only one resisting the administration's attemp at a ceasefire.

Lindsey Graham has violated the Logan Act, unless. . . this is just a complex good cop/bad cop ploy by the administration?

But we know Graham's history, this is nothing new for him.

Steve Bannon Calls For Lindsey Graham’s ARREST During Chris Cuomo Interview | RISING​

Premiered 48 minutes ago

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

www.law.cornell.edu

Logan Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gipper]

Regardless of how they felt about Russia before, the savagery of the Russian invasion has not helped.

Russia is not acting like a liberator

The same U.S. Govt that said it was willing to risk a nuclear war over Russia putting missiles in Cuba, is now acting like they can't understand why Russia objected to having their country surrounded by bases from a military alliance that is openly hostile to them, couping Ukraine, funding and arming Ukraine, and intends to place nuclear armaments minutes from the Kremlin.

Weird no?

 

[rightwinger]

The same U.S. Govt that said it was willing to risk a nuclear war over Russia putting missiles in Cuba, is now acting like they can't understand why Russia objected to having their country surrounded by bases from a military alliance that is openly hostile to them, couping Ukraine, funding and arming Ukraine, and intends to place nuclear armaments minutes from the Kremlin.

Weird no?

nice try…

But nobody was offering Ukraine NATO membership.
It was Putin who was openly hostile.

Putin made it worse as Finland and Sweden joined NATO

 

[MisterBeale]

But nobody was offering Ukraine NATO membership.

While no one had offered membership yet, it was clearly on the Agenda, and everyone knew it.

They also knew what Russia's position on that was. This whole war was purposely engineered by the blob.

Don’t Let Ukraine Join NATO

The costs of expanding the alliance outweigh the benefits.

www.foreignaffairs.com

https://archive.ph/bfk0j

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

geopoliticaleconomy.com

I was there: NATO and the origins of the Ukraine crisis

After the fall of the Soviet Union, I told the Senate that expansion would lead us to where we are today.

responsiblestatecraft.org

Tangled Tale of NATO Expansion at the Heart of Ukraine Crisis

The U.S. response to winning the Cold War set the stage for the current crisis with Russia, reports Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News The end of the Cold War with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the end of the Soviet Union two years later presented the Unit

consortiumnews.com

 

[rightwinger]

While no one had offered membership yet, it was clearly on the Agenda, and everyone knew it.

They also knew what Russia's position on that was. This whole war was purposely engineered by the blob.

View attachment 1118363

Don’t Let Ukraine Join NATO

The costs of expanding the alliance outweigh the benefits.

www.foreignaffairs.com

https://archive.ph/bfk0j

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

geopoliticaleconomy.com

View attachment 1118364

I was there: NATO and the origins of the Ukraine crisis

After the fall of the Soviet Union, I told the Senate that expansion would lead us to where we are today.

responsiblestatecraft.org

Tangled Tale of NATO Expansion at the Heart of Ukraine Crisis

The U.S. response to winning the Cold War set the stage for the current crisis with Russia, reports Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News The end of the Cold War with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the end of the Soviet Union two years later presented the Unit

consortiumnews.com

2008?

No movement had been made on encouraging Ukraine to join NATO

Why do you defend Putin aggression