Zelenski Says Trump Can't Make Him Negotiate With Russia....Practically Admitting He's Not Trying To End It

[AZrailwhale]

It's doubtful that Russia will ever leave the boundaries of Ukraine, otherwise while conducting his special operation to topple the government of Ukraine (if that was his original goal), but he could if he is coaxed out due to extreme interference by third parties being involved against him with Zelensky.

If anything I surmise that he will focus on finishing the job in Ukraine by using all means at his disposal, and this after Ukraine became the bane within his eyesight for whatever reason that he has had against him..

In his thinking Zelensky had since gotten too cozy with the west, and right at the borderline with his Russia.. This among other things right ?

I surmise that if anyone gets in the way of Putins original goal, otherwise after all the blood and treasure he has spent, then it could escalate into an out of control situation that ends up spiraling way out of control, and therefore engulfing all who were poking their heads into the business of the two old and/or new enemies fighting one another.

Beware to all who poke their warmongering heads into something that could get them what they don't want if not careful.

World War !!

Make peace not war.. Haven't we ever learned that one yet ?

What do you all think ?

As long as Russia controls Sevastopol, it will want to control the rest of Ukraine to provide security to that year-round ice-free port. The only road to a real peace is to expel Russia from all Ukrainian territory. Otherwise Russia will simply rebuild its strength and try again.

 

[ESay]

As long as Russia controls Sevastopol, it will want to control the rest of Ukraine to provide security to that year-round ice-free port. The only road to a real peace is to expel Russia from all Ukrainian territory. Otherwise Russia will simply rebuild its strength and try again.

If Russia will be expelled, it won't rebuild and try again?

 

[beagle9]

If Russia will be expelled, it won't rebuild and try again?

That was my thoughts as well.

Unless after expulsion or a peace agreement that will hold, then time plays a huge role in the changing of the gaurds, their thinking, and their goals be it all due to the age's of men creeping up on them.... The differences in people's outlooks, and in what goals they set as a people for themselves in the aftermath and future, surely will begin a new for all in the ways of peace due to the mistakes of the past.

War gets tiring, and once two enemies stop fighting, they then begin to reflect on the damages and horrific losses caused by war. At this point one realizes how much war cost in lives and treasury, and how much of a true negative it truly is for everyone involved be it during and then afterwards for many year's to come.

Gotta get those two to a negotiating table, and somehow stop the carnage and chaos with a peace initiative that will hold.

The war in Bosnia can be looked at year's later, and it can be shown or used as an example of what peace looks like after all was thought to be lost forever if that war wasn't stopped somehow.

 

[ESay]

That was my thoughts as well.

Unless after expulsion or a peace agreement that will hold, then time plays a huge role in the changing of the gaurds, their thinking, and their goals be it all due to the age's of men creeping up on them.... The differences in people's outlooks, and in what goals they set as a people for themselves in the aftermath and future, surely will begin a new for all in the ways of peace due to the mistakes of the past.

War gets tiring, and once two enemies stop fighting, they then begin to reflect on the damages and horrific losses caused by war. At this point one realizes how much war cost in lives and treasury, and how much of a true negative it truly is for everyone involved be it during and then afterwards for many year's to come.

Gotta get those two to a negotiating table, and somehow stop the carnage and chaos with a peace initiative that will hold.

The war in Bosnia can be looked at year's later, and it can be shown or used as an example of what peace looks like after all was thought to be lost forever if that war wasn't stopped somehow.

Well, my English doesn't seem good to comprehend this post entirely. So, I maybe just expand my thought about the matter.

The main problem of the dimwits who support prolonging of this war is two mutually exclusive conceptions - 'Russia is too weak that it can't even deal with Ukraine' and 'Russia, after taking over Ukraine, will go on and attack some NATO country'. Naturally, such concepts can't exist in reality simultaneously, but exist in such people's heads. They can't reject either one due to the lack of integrity or basic common sens and just repeat one or the other depending on which one suits them at the moment.

Out of those two misleading ideas stems the notion 'Russia should be pushed out of Ukraine, otherwise it will launch, after a while, another invasion'. When you try from the opposite side and ask 'If pushed out, why can't it launch the same', usually only silence is presented as an answer.

So, to really stop this war, a sane approach should prevail that will abolish this unnatural 'duopoly in one' and finally come to an answer whether Russia is 'too weak' or 'strong enough'.

 

[beagle9]

Well, my English doesn't seem good to comprehend this post entirely. So, I maybe just expand my thought about the matter.

The main problem of the dimwits who support prolonging of this war is two mutually exclusive conceptions - 'Russia is too weak that it can't even deal with Ukraine' and 'Russia, after taking over Ukraine, will go on and attack some NATO country'. Naturally, such concepts can't exist in reality simultaneously, but exist in such people's heads. They can't reject either one due to the lack of integrity or basic common sens and just repeat one or the other depending on which one suits them at the moment.

Out of those two misleading ideas stems the notion 'Russia should be pushed out of Ukraine, otherwise it will launch, after a while, another invasion'. When you try from the opposite side and ask 'If pushed out, why can't it launch the same', usually only silence is presented as an answer.

So, to really stop this war, a sane approach should prevail that will abolish this unnatural 'duopoly in one' and finally come to an answer whether Russia is 'too weak' or 'strong enough'.

Russia just as the west has demonstrated, is held back by it's fear of an escalation into a nuclear exchange with each other.

So it's not really that Russia is weak, but rather it has held itself back from using a method that could have easily ended the war quickly, otherwise if it used it's ultimate weapon (it's nukes).

So Russia trying to be civilized by honoring the non-poliferating treaties, and it's restraints on using its nuclear arsenal in order to end the situation quickly, has caused Russia instead to go with the conventional route.

What Russia undoubtedly didn't realize is that with many nation's being against an invasion of another country by a neighbor, that it would provoke those nations to assist in any way possible the nation being invaded.

This changed everything for Russian efforts to quickly defeat the Zelensky government that had become the bane in Putins eyesight for whatever reason that is truly.

Each year escalation goes farther and farther with the two sides learning how to conduct war against each other in the most efficient and deadly ways imaginable. Weapons have been developed and used that is being observed and studied in every country watching or participating.

It is imperative that these wars end, and that they end quickly before the entire world becomes engulfed in war all because of.

Bidens reckless involvement in Ukraine with son Hunter has placed the United States in a weaker diplomatic position in hopes to be a top negotiating nation between the two, so hopefully Trump will come in fresh with a more respectable position that will give us back the tool of brokering a peace by negotiation and diplomacy.

 

[ESay]

Russia just as the west has demonstrated, is held back by it's fear of an escalation into a nuclear exchange with each other.

So it's not really that Russia is weak, but rather it has held itself back from using a method that could have easily ended the war quickly, otherwise if it used it's ultimate weapon (it's nukes).

So Russia trying to be civilized by honoring the non-poliferating treaties, and it's restraints on using its nuclear arsenal in order to end the situation quickly, has caused Russia instead to go with the conventional route.

What Russia undoubtedly didn't realize is that with many nation's being against an invasion of another country by a neighbor, that it would provoke those nations to assist in any way possible the nation being invaded.

This changed everything for Russian efforts to quickly defeat the Zelensky government that had become the bane in Putins eyesight for whatever reason that is truly.

Each year escalation goes farther and farther with the two sides learning how to conduct war against each other in the most efficient and deadly ways imaginable. Weapons have been developed and used that is being observed and studied in every country watching or participating.

It is imperative that these wars end, and that they end quickly before the entire world becomes engulfed in war all because of.

Bidens reckless involvement in Ukraine with son Hunter has placed the United States in a weaker diplomatic position in hopes to be a top negotiating nation between the two, so hopefully Trump will come in fresh with a more respectable position that will give us back the tool of brokering a peace by negotiation and diplomacy.

Russia hasn't escalated not only in a matter of nuclear weapons, but also in not-attacking some critical infrastructure objects. And that raises some questions, especially given that the West has already crossed all 'red lines'. Maybe there are 'practical' considerations about that, I don't know.

Also, what many people don't want to admit is that Russia doesn't need any agreements to stop this war in its current form, if they really decide to do that. They can just stop their slow advances, build defence lines as they did in Zaporizhzhia oblast, and begin to accumulate their resources, hardware, ammunition etc for another push. There won't be 'peace' in this situation, of course, since they will proceed to strike Ukraine's military targets and infrastructure.

I also have my hopes about Trump. But only time will show what will be. He is too unpredictable and narcissistic. Peace with Russia will require certain concessions to Putin - economic, territorial etc. In other words, a possible peace agreement may be deemed as 'weak' by his opponents.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If Russia will be expelled, it won't rebuild and try again?

With Sevastopol and Crimea gone, Russia will have no motive to invade Ukraine other than raw territorial aggression.

 

[ESay]

With Sevastopol and Crimea gone, Russia will have no motive to invade Ukraine other than raw territorial aggression.

Totally incorrect. With Sevastopol and Crimea gone, Russia will have one more motive - to return them back.

For the Russians, Sevastopol isn't only a naval base (though it is too, of course), but a part of former glory of the Russian empire.

 

[Vrenn]

Totally incorrect. With Sevastopol and Crimea gone, Russia will have one more motive - to return them back.

For the Russians, Sevastopol isn't only a naval base (though it is too, of course), but a part of former glory of the Russian empire.

Let's toss an idea up. What would happen if Ukraine were to agree to rent Sevastopol to the Russians with a guarentee as long as the agreement held, Russia would get out of Ukraine completely and not attack. I don't know what the original agreement was that provided so much support to the Black Fleet but as things are going, the Black Fleet will cease to exist in the future without such an agreement.

 

[ESay]

Let's toss an idea up. What would happen if Ukraine were to agree to rent Sevastopol to the Russians with a guarentee as long as the agreement held, Russia would get out of Ukraine completely and not attack. I don't know what the original agreement was that provided so much support to the Black Fleet but as things are going, the Black Fleet will cease to exist in the future without such an agreement.

The current status of Sevastopol and Crimea is a non-starter for them. They won't negotiate anything about that.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Let's toss an idea up. What would happen if Ukraine were to agree to rent Sevastopol to the Russians with a guarentee as long as the agreement held, Russia would get out of Ukraine completely and not attack. I don't know what the original agreement was that provided so much support to the Black Fleet but as things are going, the Black Fleet will cease to exist in the future without such an agreement.

That's essentially what the agreement was before Putin seized Crimea. It didn't work then, and I doubt it will work now with Ukraine having really good reason not to trust Russia to keep its agreements.

 

[beagle9]

Russia hasn't escalated not only in a matter of nuclear weapons, but also in not-attacking some critical infrastructure objects. And that raises some questions, especially given that the West has already crossed all 'red lines'. Maybe there are 'practical' considerations about that, I don't know.

Also, what many people don't want to admit is that Russia doesn't need any agreements to stop this war in its current form, if they really decide to do that. They can just stop their slow advances, build defence lines as they did in Zaporizhzhia oblast, and begin to accumulate their resources, hardware, ammunition etc for another push. There won't be 'peace' in this situation, of course, since they will proceed to strike Ukraine's military targets and infrastructure.

I also have my hopes about Trump. But only time will show what will be. He is too unpredictable and narcissistic. Peace with Russia will require certain concessions to Putin - economic, territorial etc. In other words, a possible peace agreement may be deemed as 'weak' by his opponents.

Trump has been given a terrible situation by Biden, and it will definitely challenge his skills when it comes to the "art of forging or making deals" that benefit all parties involved.

Bidens escalation time and time again, otherwise by promoting arms into the conflict instead of working hard to disarm the conflict through peace initiatives, has surely raised the stakes of trying to broker a peace between the two at a higher level from an American diplomatic vantage point.

Trump being a man's man, should easily gain the respect needed in a highstakes game of chess that has developed in all of this to date.

I truly believe that Democrat's should disperse and never seek power again in America, especially after what they have shown themselves to be or support in this America. Hopefully the two party system is eliminated and the people are able to just vote on individual candidates representing their state and state values.

One step at a time I guess, so we'll see how it all goes here, and in the meantime let's pray for calmer and cooler heads to prevail.

 

[beagle9]

That's essentially what the agreement was before Putin seized Crimea. It didn't work then, and I doubt it will work now with Ukraine having really good reason not to trust Russia to keep its agreements.

Interesting, so Ukraines government has done nothing to provoke Russia into moving back in on territory that is vital and strategic to it's national security interest ? Otherwise why did Russia need Crimea back ? Was it because of it's deep water port that could strategically house the Russian navy in order to close the door to outside invaders that may take advantage of the opening while under Ukranian control ???

What strategic value is that naval area to Russia when it is balanced upon the world stage ??

 

[Zavulon]

Making Trump your enemy is a mistake. Trump has been through hell, and to try and make him a bad guy linked to the one's that gave him that hell is a mistake. New sheriff in town means the whole dynamic changes, so don't make a mistake by thinking that the USA will be the same after Trump takes over, because it won't be.

Basically, the USA are the same. It wasn't Biden, who personally launched the ATACMS missiles. So, the talion law is still in action. "An eye for an eye and a base for a base". You attacked a Russian base on the undisputable Russian territory, therefore Russia will attack a US base on the undisputed American territory. Anyway. Russia doesn't want to have anybody as an enemy. But we have our goals (equal rights and equal safety) and we are going to achieve them - with Trump, or without him. With all my poor understanding of the American political mindset - I'm pretty sure that Trump can't neither "radically de-escalate" (return NATO's military infrastructure to 1997 borders) nor "radically escalate" (start a nuclear war) the situation. Therefore, the war will continue in more or less the same way.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Trump has been given a terrible situation by Biden, and it will definitely challenge his skills when it comes to the "art of forging or making deals" that benefit all parties involved.

Bidens escalation time and time again, otherwise by promoting arms into the conflict instead of working hard to disarm the conflict through peace initiatives, has surely raised the stakes of trying to broker a peace between the two at a higher level from an American diplomatic vantage point.

Trump being a man's man, should easily gain the respect needed in a highstakes game of chess that has developed in all of this to date.

I truly believe that Democrat's should disperse and never seek power again in America, especially after what they have shown themselves to be or support in this America. Hopefully the two party system is eliminated and the people are able to just vote on individual candidates representing their state and state values.

One step at a time I guess, so we'll see how it all goes here, and in the meantime let's pray for calmer and cooler heads to prevail.

The Russo/Ukraine War has gone beyond where anyone can make a deal that is acceptable to both sides. Russia has ANNEXED parts of Ukraine and destroyed much of what remains. Ukraine isn't going to accept that. Russia's leader Putin can't make a deal returning any portion of what he has stolen and pay for what he has destroyed without losing both his power and life. That only leaves a coup on the Russian side or the total military defeat of one side or the other as solutions. As long as the west supports Ukraine, Russia can't win, that is easily seen by Russia's threats to attack NATO powers and neutrals who support Ukraine. The West is giving Ukraine what it did the Russians in WWII; a supply and industrial base that is immune to enemy attack. Russia has drawn down its military stocks to the point is can only continue the war for a maximum of another two years and its economy may collapse long before that.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Interesting, so Ukraines government has done nothing to provoke Russia into moving back in on territory that is vital and strategic to it's national security interest ? Otherwise why did Russia need Crimea back ? Was it because of it's deep water port that could strategically house the Russian navy in order to close the door to outside invaders that may take advantage of the opening while under Ukranian control ???

What strategic value is that naval area to Russia when it is balanced upon the world stage ??

Ukraine did nothing to provoke this war. It never blocked Russian access to Sevastopol, like the Russians did to Berlin in 1948. This war is all about Russian territorial aggression and paranoia. It is 1945 all over again where Russia reneged on the promises it made to obtain WAllied aid in its fight against Germany taking all of Eastern Europe, the Balkans and the Baltics as tributary states rather than all to free elections Stalin promised the WAllies.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Basically, the USA are the same. It wasn't Biden, who personally launched the ATACMS missiles. So, the talion law is still in action. "An eye for an eye and a base for a base". You attacked a Russian base on the undisputable Russian territory, therefore Russia will attack a US base on the undisputed American territory. Anyway. Russia doesn't want to have anybody as an enemy. But we have our goals (equal rights and equal safety) and we are going to achieve them - with Trump, or without him. With all my poor understanding of the American political mindset - I'm pretty sure that Trump can't neither "radically de-escalate" (return NATO's military infrastructure to 1997 borders) nor "radically escalate" (start a nuclear war) the situation. Therefore, the war will continue in more or less the same way.

Neither the USA nor any other NATO country has attacked Russia. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian CIVILIAN areas and infrastructure since the beginning of the war. Now you are butt-hurt because Ukraine has been striking MILITARY targets in Russian territory. Ukraine would be totally justified to target civilian targets inside Russia to counter Russia's murderous attacks on Ukraine civilians, but Ukraine has not done so. By your absurd standards, Ukraine could strike Iran, China and North Korea because their weapons and munitions are being used to attack Ukraine. You never acknowledge the other side of the coin you use to justify Russian aggression and war crimes.

 

[ESay]

Trump has been given a terrible situation by Biden, and it will definitely challenge his skills when it comes to the "art of forging or making deals" that benefit all parties involved.

Bidens escalation time and time again, otherwise by promoting arms into the conflict instead of working hard to disarm the conflict through peace initiatives, has surely raised the stakes of trying to broker a peace between the two at a higher level from an American diplomatic vantage point.

Trump being a man's man, should easily gain the respect needed in a highstakes game of chess that has developed in all of this to date.

I truly believe that Democrat's should disperse and never seek power again in America, especially after what they have shown themselves to be or support in this America. Hopefully the two party system is eliminated and the people are able to just vote on individual candidates representing their state and state values.

One step at a time I guess, so we'll see how it all goes here, and in the meantime let's pray for calmer and cooler heads to prevail.

Agree, let's wait and see. It is impossible to make any predictions. And doesn't needed at all. It is no long to wait, after all.

Hopefully the two party system is eliminated and the people are able to just vote on individual candidates representing their state and state values

Agree completely. The current duopoly is obsolete, quite ineffective and corrupted. And brings nothing except of deep division to your country. But I am not too optimistic about that.

 

[beagle9]

The Russo/Ukraine War has gone beyond where anyone can make a deal that is acceptable to both sides. Russia has ANNEXED parts of Ukraine and destroyed much of what remains. Ukraine isn't going to accept that. Russia's leader Putin can't make a deal returning any portion of what he has stolen and pay for what he has destroyed without losing both his power and life. That only leaves a coup on the Russian side or the total military defeat of one side or the other as solutions. As long as the west supports Ukraine, Russia can't win, that is easily seen by Russia's threats to attack NATO powers and neutrals who support Ukraine. The West is giving Ukraine what it did the Russians in WWII; a supply and industrial base that is immune to enemy attack. Russia has drawn down its military stocks to the point is can only continue the war for a maximum of another two years and its economy may collapse long before that.

Assessing what can be or how it will end or how it will not end is a thing that no one can estimate, because right now the assessments have been proven wrong time and time again.

Nation's have vast resources within them, and they aren't tied to a global shut off button or Hillary reset button as those playing within the global club might think. Leverages and strategies change daily on the chess board.

 

[beagle9]

Neither the USA nor any other NATO country has attacked Russia. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian CIVILIAN areas and infrastructure since the beginning of the war. Now you are butt-hurt because Ukraine has been striking MILITARY targets in Russian territory. Ukraine would be totally justified to target civilian targets inside Russia to counter Russia's murderous attacks on Ukraine civilians, but Ukraine has not done so. By your absurd standards, Ukraine could strike Iran, China and North Korea because their weapons and munitions are being used to attack Ukraine. You never acknowledge the other side of the coin you use to justify Russian aggression and war crimes.

Great analysis of his post.