Zelenski Says Trump Can't Make Him Negotiate With Russia....Practically Admitting He's Not Trying To End It

[Zavulon]

The USA may not be able to win a nuclear war with Russia, but it can ensure that Russia loses as well.

No. If Russia strike first, US retaliation won't cause losses more significant than Russia had already suffered during WWII.
Anyway, the price of victory will be significant for Russia, but definitely lesser than the price of defeat.

I believe that Trump will give Putin a chance to negotiate a fair peace giving back most of the territory it has conquered, and when, as I am sure will happen, Putin refuses, Trump will ramp up support to Ukraine far beyond the total support Ukraine gets today from all parties combined. He will also ramp up the economic sanctions on both Russia and the kleptocrats running it.

If Trump choose "radically escalate" Russia will radically escalate either. In the current circumstances it, likely, means counter-force strike against the US nuclear forces.

You have the strange idea that the USA will limit retaliation to a small Russian strike.

Hey, but why do you think that Russia won't retaliate to your small strikes? Of course, Russia will retaliate.

You might take a look at American history to see what a totally stupid idea that is. We joined the Triple Entante in destroying a Germany because of a telegram and a passenger liner being sunk. We totally destroyed Japan and Germany over a far off navy base being attacked. We toppled two governments because they supported the terrorists who flew hijacked airliners into three buildings and killed three thousand Americans.

Bla-bla-bla. Read something about Russian military history, and you'll see that Russia is more inevitable than the USA.

If you launch one nuke at any US possession , the president will launch a massive counter strike long before your missile lands.

No. Russia won't launch "one nuke". Russia will destroy 500 targets. And then US retaliation capabilities will be more than "limited". They will be "degraded to the acceptable level".

No American president could survive doing anything else. Even feckless Jimmy Carter finally launched a raid to recover our diplomatic personnel held by Iran. He just screwed it up.

Not our problem if Trump can't survive. It's not about personalities. Anyway, any survived high-rank American general can sign unconditional surrender. Rules are simple:
1) F#ck off now - and the USA (but not necessarily NATO) continue their existence in the current borders.
2) Our counter-force strike and the price of peace will be Alaska and California (but the USA will be still more or less independent country).
3) If you retaliate and we start counter-value bombing - we'll demand your unconditional surrender.
4) If you don't surrender even during massive counter-value bombing campaign - you are extincted. We'll grieve (for we don't want to genocide Americans), but it's acceptable for us.

 

[Zavulon]

Great analysis of his post.

Its not "analysis" in any way. Its just parroting the worst stamps of the worst BBC propaganda.

 

[Zavulon]

As long as Russia controls Sevastopol, it will want to control the rest of Ukraine to provide security to that year-round ice-free port. The only road to a real peace is to expel Russia from all Ukrainian territory. Otherwise Russia will simply rebuild its strength and try again.

Even if Russia doesn't control Ukraine (as it was in XVI century) - Russia recuperated and then will take Ukraine back (as it was in XVII-XIX centuries).

There are only two possible ways to establish lasting reliable peace:
1) Total elimination of Russia or the USA (I prefer latter);
2) Mutally acceptable peace of equal rights and equal safety.

 

[Zavulon]

Let's toss an idea up. What would happen if Ukraine were to agree to rent Sevastopol to the Russians with a guarentee as long as the agreement held, Russia would get out of Ukraine completely and not attack. I don't know what the original agreement was that provided so much support to the Black Fleet but as things are going, the Black Fleet will cease to exist in the future without such an agreement.

Any type of written agreements with the West is (as it was clearly demonstrated many times before) just a useless waste of paper. Russia needs actions, not words. Like, say, return of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders. Make few steps back and we'll talk.
But, as much as I can understand - you won't make it until we push you by force, so, there will be no peace until NATO's defeat.

 

[beagle9]

No. If Russia strike first, US retaliation won't cause losses more significant than Russia had already suffered during WWII.
Anyway, the price of victory will be significant for Russia, but definitely lesser than the price of defeat.



If Trump choose "radically escalate" Russia will radically escalate either. In the current circumstances it, likely, means counter-force strike against the US nuclear forces.


Hey, but why do you think that Russia won't retaliate to your small strikes? Of course, Russia will retaliate.



Bla-bla-bla. Read something about Russian military history, and you'll see that Russia is more inevitable than the USA.


No. Russia won't launch "one nuke". Russia will destroy 500 targets. And then US retaliation capabilities will be more than "limited". They will be "degraded to the acceptable level".


Not our problem if Trump can't survive. It's not about personalities. Anyway, any survived high-rank American general can sign unconditional surrender. Rules are simple:
1) F#ck off now - and the USA (but not necessarily NATO) continue their existence in the current borders.
2) Our counter-force strike and the price of peace will be Alaska and California (but the USA will be still more or less independent country).
3) If you retaliate and we start counter-value bombing - we'll demand your unconditional surrender.
4) If you don't surrender even during massive counter-value bombing campaign - you are extincted. We'll grieve (for we don't want to genocide Americans), but it's acceptable for us.

Sounds like a real Russian patriotic speak you are embarking upon, but remember that we have been a leader in developing military technologies in which basically has empowered many nation's in the world. We have been at the forefront of developed weaponry since the U.S. was formed.

Our Space, Naval, Air, and ground forces are superb in the world of technological advances. Our counter measures and technology is at it's peak performance in our defensive postures. Our defensive response measures are evident in the technologies we have allowed other nation's to use in order to thwart incoming threats. Watching the donated weaponry used by the Ukranians dominate the battlefields in Ukraine, is just an example of the differences in capabilities.

The submarines we have are ten times more capable than Russian nuclear subs are capable of, and where are your aircraft carriers ?

Don't be surprised either that if a nuclear missile is launched by Russia in a hostile direction towards the U.S. or it's vital interest assets, that it would be eliminated prior to leaving Russian airspace.

You don't want that situation, because the fall out for Russia would be catastrophic.

Putin needs to come to the negotiating table with Trump, and let's get the insanity back into it's box where it belongs.

 

[GLASNOST]

Russia needs actions, not words. Like, say, return of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders.

Sounds like a worthy plan.

..... you won't make it until we push you by force, so, there will be no peace until NATO's defeat.

I think you're right.

 

[beagle9]

Any type of written agreements with the West is (as it was clearly demonstrated many times before) just a useless waste of paper. Russia needs actions, not words. Like, say, return of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders. Make few steps back and we'll talk.
But, as much as I can understand - you won't make it until we push you by force, so, there will be no peace until NATO's defeat.

NATOs defeat ?.. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... If Putin isn't ready to come to a negotiating table, then he'll never have his concerns put forth in a constructive productive way.

 

[Zavulon]

Sounds like a real Russian patriotic speak you are embarking upon, but remember that we have been a leader in developing military technologies in which basically has empowered many nation's in the world. We have been at the forefront of developed weaponry since the U.S. was formed.

Our Space, Naval, Air, and ground forces are superb in the world of technological advances. Our counter measures and technology is at it's peak performance in our defensive postures. Our defensive response measures are evident in the technologies we have allowed other nation's to use in order to thwart incoming threats. Watching the donated weaponry used by the Ukranians dominate the battlefields in Ukraine, is just an example of the differences in capabilities.

The submarines we have are ten times more capable than Russian nuclear subs are capable of, and where are your aircraft carriers ?

Don't be surprised either that if a nuclear missile is launched by Russia in a hostile direction towards the U.S. or it's vital interest assets, that it would be eliminated prior to leaving Russian airspace.

Bla-bla-bla. The times of America's technological and industrial superiority are gone.

You don't want that situation, because the fall out for Russia would be catastrophic.

Yeah. It will be "terrible", but not "terrible-terrible-terrible". As I said - the price of victory will be much lesser than the price of defeat.

Putin needs to come to the negotiating table with Trump, and let's get the insanity back into it's box where it belongs.

For what reason? Trump can't neither radically escalate (start a nuclear war), nor radically de-escalate (leave East Europe). Of course, we can talk, but don't expect anything.

 

[Zavulon]

NATOs defeat ?..

Yeap. If NATO can't finish it's agression against Russia - we'll finish NATO.

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... If Putin isn't ready to come to a negotiating table, then he'll never have his concerns put forth in a constructive productive way.

We are always ready to come to a table. The only question is what exactly is on the table? If there is only Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola, it doesn't not worth it.

 

[GLASNOST]

Trump can't neither radically escalate (start a nuclear war), nor radically de-escalate (leave East Europe).

I don't think he has a choice. He has to de-escalate. Russia won't continue pulling its punches for much longer ... and Trump knows it.

 

[Zavulon]

I don't think he has a choice. He has to de-escalate. Russia won't continue pulling its punches for much longer ... and Trump knows it.

He has. But I don't think he can. The Chinese lobby is too strong in America, and they won't allow any real de-escalation.

 

[beagle9]

Yeap. If NATO can't finish it's agression against Russia - we'll finish NATO.


We are always ready to come to a table. The only question is what exactly is on the table? If there is only Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola, it doesn't not worth it.

Who will finish NATO ? Russia ? Better bring lots of friends.. Russian military technology has suffered during the years of extreme wealth redistribution towards the oligarchs and top government officials. The military suffering has been revealed on the battlefields of Ukraine. Russia has been in catch up mode ever since it thought that the Ukranians would be an easy push over on the day of the invasion. It's been a deadly game for Russian troops and it's proxies upon the battlefield.

 

[beagle9]

He has. But I don't think he can. The Chinese lobby is too strong in America, and they won't allow any real de-escalation.

Makes no sense. Thought China was Russias supporter now ?

 

[Zavulon]

Makes no sense. Thought China was Russias supporter now ?

As almost any other country, China is playing it's own game. And in practical terms China is interested in the more "close" relationships (and in the better terms of it) with Russia. And the best way to push Russia to China, is to force all concealed Chinese assets in America to force America to escalate (or, at least, not to de-escalate). Yes, in public they will support Russian demands for equal-safety peace, but in private they will demand from their assets to escalate. More hostilities between Russia and the USA, means more profits for Chinese business.
Every American-made Patriot destroyed in Ukraine won't defend the sky of Taiwan.

 

[Vrenn]

The current status of Sevastopol and Crimea is a non-starter for them. They won't negotiate anything about that.

Then they get what they deserve. Since the invasion, Russia has had about 1 million dead and severely wounded. When they do a push, they lose thousands in just a few days. And Ukraine has shown great restraint in attacking their powergrid. This can change fast.

 

[Vrenn]

Any type of written agreements with the West is (as it was clearly demonstrated many times before) just a useless waste of paper. Russia needs actions, not words. Like, say, return of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders. Make few steps back and we'll talk.
But, as much as I can understand - you won't make it until we push you by force, so, there will be no peace until NATO's defeat.

Good luck with that. The only way that Russia can defeat nato is to go Nuclear and only a complete madman uses that option.

 

[ESay]

Then they get what they deserve. Since the invasion, Russia has had about 1 million dead and severely wounded. When they do a push, they lose thousands in just a few days. And Ukraine has shown great restraint in attacking their powergrid. This can change fast.

1 million? Why not 10 millions? Operating this ridiculous figure shows how you immensely deluded.

 

[Zavulon]

Good luck with that. The only way that Russia can defeat nato is to go Nuclear and only a complete madman uses that option.

Yes. Regional war is a nuclear war by definition. But nuclear victory is much better than conventional defeat (if we are talking about vital interests of the nuclear state). And no, only complete madmen attack nuclear states directly or indirectly.
Can you imagine circumstances under which the USA would prefer returning to its 1820 borders to a nuclear attack agaisnt Mexico and/or Latino-American Alliance/Russia/China, whoever support those freaking "decolonisators"?

 

[Jroc]

x.com

Zelenskyy in Ukraine Radio interview: "The US cannot force us to sit and listen at the negotiating table. We are an independent country,”

This is an admission that the has no intention of ending the war for his own reasons, be it financial or otherwise.

Without us the Ukraine would be overrun

 

[Zavulon]

Good luck with that. The only way that Russia can defeat nato is to go Nuclear and only a complete madman uses that option.

Yes. Regional war is a nuclear war by definition. But nuclear victory is much better than conventional defeat (if we are talking about vital interests of the nuclear state). And no, only complete madmen attack nuclear states directly or indirectly.
Can you imagine circumstances under which the USA would prefer returning to its 1820 borders to a nuclear attack agaisnt Mexico and/or Latino-American Alliance/Russia/China, whoever support those freaking "decolonisators"?