Zalensky unhappy about peace.

[SweetTea]

Trump isn't allowed to end the war against Russia. That would/will result in China and Russia together against US aggression and Brics becoming the world's most powerful superpower bloc by far.

If Russia stops the US in the Ukraine, America will be forever the 'also ran'.

You have several screws loose.

 

[TimFitz]

You're off in your own little world with your own "facts"

Discussion is futile

Well, at least one of us has fact that he can easily back up.

 

[SweetTea]

Shouldn't Zekensky have been a major player and included....how is trump trying for a peace agreement with only Putin and what Putin, the WAR CRIMMINAL wants? Screw your head back on, pretty please!

Trump asked Zelensky for shared mineral rights to help pay for the money we have given them. They said no. Trump said cool, we will go to Putin to see what he wants to do. You guys are terrible at negotiations.

 

[Zavulon]

I was responding to a Putin apologist who was claiming that “we” should never let the invasion happen. And that we should have stepped in and forced a peace bsed on some imaginary proposal from 2022.

There were peace proposals back in 2021 and in 2022. You just didn't like it. You wanted returning of 1991 borders, NATO membership and no equal rights for Russians.

I was not advocating putting American troops in the Ukraine. I was just saying that his imaginary scenario would have demanded it.

Actually, those peace proposals demanding withdrawing American troops from East Europe.

It’s a moot point. There was no peace proposal in 2022.

There were peace proposals back in 2021.

2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In 2022 the terms became worse for NATO. In 2025 they are worse for you than they were in 2023. May be, in 2026 Russia will demand Alaska and California for signing the peace treaty.

 

[TimFitz]

You have several screws loose.

Really?

After Trump gives Ukraine away to the Russians, what’s to stop Xi from going after Taiwan.

Trump’s obvious fear of Putin is on open display to the entire world.

Trump is a weak little coward who punches down (a see Canada, Panama and NATO) and sucks up (see Putin).

The world sees that. So does Xi.

 

[TimFitz]

There were peace proposals back in 2021 and in 2022. You just didn't like it. You wanted returning of 1991 borders, NATO membership and no equal rights for Russians.

Actually, those peace proposals demanding withdrawing American troops from East Europe.


There were peace proposals back in 2021.

2021 Russian ultimatum to NATO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In 2022 the terms became worse for NATO. In 2025 they are worse for you than they were in 2023. May be, in 2026 Russia will demand Alaska and California for signing the peace treaty.

Your own links refute your claim.

There was no peace deal.

The Russians issued demands. Not requests. Nor did they then, or now ever offer to negotiate.

And they already had their armies assembling for the invasion

Even now, Trump is trying to force Ukraine into a territory sacrifice that the Russians haven’t actually agreed to.

 

[22lcidw]

Really?

After Trump gives Ukraine away to the Russians, what’s to stop Xi from going after Taiwan.

Trump’s obvious fear of Putin is on open display to the entire world.

Trump is a weak little coward who punches down (a see Canada, Panama and NATO) and sucks up (see Putin).

The world sees that. So does Xi.

The planet has three main power centers. With alignment of two of them at any given time. The West, Russia and China. Each has their own sphere of influence. This is not the Iron Curtain. This not the 1930's. NATO is powerful. And it relies on the United States to pay the freight because we do it for no reason. We are charged to put bases on their land to defend them.

 

[TimFitz]

The planet has three main power centers. With alignment of two of them at any given time. The West, Russia and China. Each has their own sphere of influence. This is not the Iron Curtain. This not the 1930's. NATO is powerful. And it relies on the United States to pay the freight because we do it for no reason. We are charged to put bases on their land to defend them.

Apparantly you must have just returned from another planet.

Russia and China are two nodes in the geopolitical orbit.

The Western Alliance (aka the “free world”), as represented by NATO, the EU, the UN and a host of other organizations that exist within the umbrella of American world leadership.

This is the other node.

While you may claim that this is not the Iron Curtain , that is precisely Putin’s goal. he has said so in public. Russian media constantly promotes the idea.

NATO is powerful. Trump has been attacking it since 2016, and he is openly sidelining it as he plays Neville Chamberlain, prostrate before Putin.

Trump is openly calling for withdrawal American forces from Europe, and isolationists in the GOP are calling for quitting the UN.

He is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Had the us strongly backed NATO and Ukraine, Russia would lose, and exit the stage as a major global power. zTrump is trying to hand Moscow a victory.

Every single one of these things directly serve Russian long term foreign policy objectives.
Trump is asking for NOTHING in return.

Trump is betraying the legacy of the men who fought WWII, and repudiating the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill.

Retreating into one’s narrow sphere of influence is the politics of the 1930’s.

Although an American Secretary of Defense, an American Vice President and Musk openly supporting facists in Germany is something new and shameful.

 

[Zavulon]

Your own links refute your claim.

There was no peace deal.

Of course it was.

The Russians issued demands. Not requests. Nor did they then, or now ever offer to negotiate.

Do what we said you to do, and you'll live - is a good peace offer. Next one will be worse.

And they already had their armies assembling for the invasion

Yes, of course. And right now we are preparing to fight a war against NATO and/or the USA.

Even now, Trump is trying to force Ukraine into a territory sacrifice that the Russians haven’t actually agreed to.

If he is trying to do exactly that (which I doubt) he won't be successful. It's not about territory and never have been.

 

[Rambunctious]

Trump can't be planiing to end the war. He'll get whacked by the military if he tries it.

Truth is, he won't offer Putin what it takes for peace.

Say you heard it from Donald H first.

What kind of country do you think you live in?... has the crooked evil anti American actions by democrats soured you on America?.... I guess that's understandable... no one will try and whack Trump... they tried that twice and failed and now we are in control of the FBI the CIA the SS the DOJ and homeland security...

 

[TimFitz]

Of course it was.

Do what we said you to do, and you'll live - is a good peace offer. Next one will be worse.


Yes, of course. And right now we are preparing to fight a war against NATO and/or the USA.


If he is trying to do exactly that (which I doubt) he won't be successful. It's not about territory and never have been.

A Russian ultimatum is not a peace deal. Period.
“
“. And right now we are preparing to fight a war against NATO and/or the USA.”

We? You’re a Russian troll?

Oh, and it always has been about territory. Russia want to occupy Ukraine and use it as a staging area to bully the rest of Eastern Europe back under Moscow’s thumb.

Putin has made this clear as well.

 

[TimFitz]

What kind of country do you think you live in?... has the crooked evil anti American actions by democrats soured you on America?.... I guess that's understandable... no one will try and whack Trump... they tried that twice and failed and now we are in control of the FBI the CIA the SS the DOJ and homeland security...

No crooked evil anti American activities on the part of the Trump regieme have disgraced our nation.

 

[Rambunctious]

No crooked evil anti American activities on the part of the Trump regieme have disgraced our nation.

In what way fuzzboi?....

 

[TimFitz]

In what way fuzzboi?....

Trump is betraying Ukrainecto Russia, and not asking for anything in return.

He is using Musk to slash and burn the government with no real plan for the future.

He has installed lickspittle flunkies in key positions to exact his own personal revenge.

He is sidelining Congress, and trying to force a case into the Supreme Court on the expectation that they will make him a king.

 

[Donald H]

What kind of country do you think you live in?... has the crooked evil anti American actions by democrats soured you on America?.... I guess that's understandable... no one will try and whack Trump... they tried that twice and failed and now we are in control of the FBI the CIA the SS the DOJ and homeland security...

The two attempts to whack Trump were fakes.

 

[Donald H]

Is this what they are telling you on the Troll Farm, Donnie?



Actually, Trump will do his best to sell out Ukraine, but the real question is, will the GOP finally declare him incompetent and invoke Amendment 25.

Now you're getting it Joe. Both the GOP and the Dem congress understand that winning the war against Russia is essential to America.

I think they have to wait for his approval rating to go lower to do that.

That will help but it's not necessary.

 

[Donald H]

It's not the military pushing this war. It's Democrats.

I was a five year old once too Dave!

 

[Donald H]

What commitment are you talking about?

The commitment to end the war of course. It's just not going to happen and so there are options available to stop Trump. If there's not a way found to stop him then the last resort is to have him whacked.

 

[Rambunctious]

The two attempts to whack Trump were fakes.

You really are one crazy MFer you know that?...

 

[Rambunctious]

Trump is betraying Ukrainecto Russia, and not asking for anything in return.

He is using Musk to slash and burn the government with no real plan for the future.

He has installed lickspittle flunkies in key positions to exact his own personal revenge.

He is sidelining Congress, and trying to force a case into the Supreme Court on the expectation that they will make him a king.

You don't know what Trump is doing... no one does... Ukraine doesn't want to sit and talk because they know they will have to give up land... but its either that or lose another million people just to lose the land anyway...