Your solution to the ME crisis

[eagle1462010]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OcFj5Z0jCQ]The NAZI mufti of Jerusalem- Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

The NAZI mufti of Jerusalem- Part 2

Another video for the Jew Haters. There are plenty out there. I'm just giving you a taste of the TRUTH of what really happened. In this video, Jews were being released to the middle East. The Grand Mufti heard about it and stopped it. It in included 4000 Jewish Children, who were sent to the Concentration camps.

This is the Real Deal. This is the HISTORY OF THE REGION. and I again INTRODUCE YOU TO ARAFAT'S UNCLE.

 

[Saigon]

Israel didn't have any historical claim to land that was declared theirs after 1948? Another Pro Palestinian lie. Israel's most sacred Holy sites are in E. JERUSALEM. Prior and after 1948 Jordan DESECRATED JEWISH CEMETARIES. The Palestinians have done the same.

Yes, of couse it did!

Of course Israel has legitimate claims to Jerusalem and everything else in what we might call 'Israel proper'

If you read my comments again, it should be clear that what I stated that Israel does not have a historical claim to is the towns of the northern West Bank, such as Nablus and Jenin.

 

[eagle1462010]

Forever Young -

"No historical claim nor connection to..." Are you serious?

This isn't a controversial claim - any Israeli will tell you that Jews have never settled in towns like Ramallah, Nablus or Jenin, pr much of what is now the northern West Bank.

Census numbers from 1850 confirm this:

Nablus:

Muslim households: 1,356
Jewish households: 14

Nalbus countryside:

Muslim households: 13,022
Jewish households: 0

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The situation with Hebron and Jericho is obviously very different.

And after?

Jewish National Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They bought land. Made Forests, and Oasis's out of the Desert. They bought it from the Ottaman Empire and later the British. Yet plush countryside of today is by the cultivation of deserts in the past.

Which is why you only quoted the 1800's Census in your post.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Let them all blow each other up and then we no longer have to listen to their incessant whining

 

[Lipush]

Let them all blow each other up and then we no longer have to listen to their incessant whining

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'd like to offer what I find in the Torah to be G-ds solution to resolving the matter. I also want to quote John McTernan from his book As America has Done to israel - because he is the first bible scholar I've ever known to accurately interpret the Three Battles prior to the Day of the Lord depicted in OT.

The Three Battles

Each battle gets progressively larger.

It starts off in Isaiah 34:8 For the Day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompense for the contraversy of Zion.

The first battle involved the destruction of Iraq and the nations bordering Israel. The second battle is led by Russia with the rest of the Islamic nations, and the third battle is Armageddon, which involves Asia with an army of 200 million.

The destruction of Babylon ( Iraq) is the opening. Before I begin let me state that while I am astounded at Kiernans' accuracy in understanding the line up here ( while other television bible prophecy teachers such as Perry Stone have missed it completely ) I am going to diagree with him on which Babylon gets destroyed before these wars kick off.

While Kiernan inteprets Iraq in ME to be the Babylon that the prophet describes - a quick read of Revelation 18 makes it obvious to me it isn't Iraq that is destroyed but America. America is mystery Babylon. Not Iraq. Iraq is not surrounded by "many waters" - America is. Read Revelation 18 and see for yourself. Perry Stone also says it isn't America. I say it is. Why? Because when America falls there will be nothing holding these nations surrounding Israel back anymore. We are the ones standing in the way of their plan. Not the Iraqis.

This is the opening move to the first major battle. Who will strike on the USA with nuclear fire? The nation leading the invasion of Israel in Ezekiel of course. That would be Russia. So let's begin here:

According to the prophets in the Torah the people facing judgment are the people who live in Mystery Babylon ( take down of America precedes Major Attack on Israel ) the Palestinians, the Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians and part of Saudi Arabia. G-d is going to judge these nations when they attempt to annihilate Israel.

Teirnan mentions that the final battle over Jerusalem may have begun in Sept 28,2000. The conflict over the Temple Mount started on that day and hasn't ever subsided. The major trigger point is Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.

The bible speaks directly to the current Israeli - Palestinian conflict. The bible says as the day of the Lord draws near, the Jews will drive the Palestinians completely from the land of Israel. The complete removal of the Palestinians is another key sign of the Day of the Lord drawing near.

The Prophet Obadiah spoke to us about this situation - the prophet tied this conflict to the coming day of the Lord. He stated that as the Day of the Lord Draws near, a horrific war erupts between the Jews, "The House of Jacob," and the Palestinians, the "House of Esau." Read Obadiah 1:15, 18-19 This war results in the Palestinians being driven from the covenant land. The prophet stated that Israel will possess the Plain of the Philistines, which is Gaza, Ephraim, and Samaria, located in the West Bank, all are brought under Israeli control, along with Gilead. Gilead is the East Bank of the Jordan River.

Why is Israel forced into such a response? Because in the preamble of Hamas it declares, Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it has obliterated others before it. Article II of their document reads: The Islamic Resistance Movement ( Hamas ) believes the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered, it, or any part of it should not be given up.

The Hamas covenant leaves no rooom for negotiations with Israel.

Article 13: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except throught jihad. Initiatives, proposals, and the international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestine people know better than to consent to having their futures, rights and fate toyed with.


The prophet Isaiah adds to this prophecy in speaking of a war that crushes Syria but also weakens Israel. The first war totally destroys Damascus and the nation of Syria ceases to exist ( this is part of Obadiah prophecy but is found in Isaiah as well ) The destruction of Damascus is so great it is never rebuilt again. Syria ceases from being a nation and Israel becomes thin, or loses a large percentage of its population.

* Comment * I believe the large percentage will be comprised of those inside Israel who are not supposed to be there. We will witness a thorough purging of all non Jewish presence inside Israel in that hour as G-d delivers His judgment on those who afflicted His people and His Holy land. Read Isaiah 17: 12- 14 for the full description of this judgment.

Egypt is drawn into this first battle also. Egypt will be completely destroyed. It appears the fighting between the Palestinians and the Israelis spills over into Egypt. Egypt attacks Israel to her own doom. The destruction of Egypt is so complete that the survivors flee into the nations of the world. the Nile River stops flowing. Prophet after prophet confirms the terrible destruction coming to Egypt - prophecies about the Detruction of Egypt have yet to be fulfilled. You'll read of the destruction of Egypt and the dispersion of the survivors of Egypt to other nations in Joel 3:19 and Ezekiel 29:9 - 12.

The modern nation of Jordan comprises three small nations: Ammon, Moab, and Edom ( the ancient names of these lands and peoples will identify who perishes in this first battle. Ammon is the northern section of Jordan, Moab is the central section, and Edom is the southern section. The prophet Zephaniah spoke about the Day of the Lord and the total destruction of Ammon and Moab yet that destruction hasn't happened yet either. It is coming in the future. The total destruction of the central Jordan ( Moab ) and the northern section ( Ammon ) is so great it turns parts of the Jordan into Sodom and Gomorrah. ( the prophet doesn't mention Edom which is located in southern Jordan ) Read Zephaniah 2: 8-9 for that description.

Then the prophet Isaiah describes the awesome judgment on Edom, also referred to as Idumea. The region of Idumea includes Southern Jordan and North western corner of Saudi Arabia. Isaiah said that during the day of the Lord, this area will burn with pitch or oil. The very nation known for oil will burn on fire with oil. You can find verification for this prophecy in Isaiah 34: 8, Isaiah 34: 5.

Isaiah 34: 9-10 specifically describes this area as burning so intensely that no one can pass through it.

From the description of this battle and the fact that Israel prevails while her neighbors perish or flee to far away lands it ( Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, the palestinian people - part of Saudi Arabia too )
appears to be weapons of mass destruction used.

The summation of this first battle: The first war results in an impassible ring of destroyed countries to the south and east of Israel. The nations of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq ( Babylon - which I say is America not the Babylon in the ME ) and part of Saudi Arabia are totally destroyed. According to the Bible, they become like Sodom and Gomorrah ( destroyed by fire - uninhabitable )

According to bible scholar, John McTernan, this area becomes completely impassable because of the use of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. the soil of the destroyed nations is so poisoned it is impossible to pass through. The area of Idumea is on fire, much like Kuwait was after the 91' Gulf War. The approaches to Israel from the South and the East are blocked, leaving only the north as an avenue of attacking Israel.

This is why Israel will take her wall down. The Mediterranean Sea blocks a land invasion from the West. This leaves only a very narrow area of land focused in the Mountains of Israel. ( Which is exactly how the Russian led Islamic Army shall come in on horse back in Ezekiel 37, 38, 39 later on in second Battle ) The very same Russian led Islamic Army that will be destroyed on those mountains later on in the second battle. The second battle starts with Ezekiel 38: 16 - Thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days.

Ezekiel lists a confederacy of nations united in this attack against Israel. Russia leads the nations, which include Turkey, Iran, Libya, Ethiopia, parts of Eastern Europe.... the prophet Ezekiel doesn't mention the countries of Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria. the reason these nations were not listed in his prophecy is that they were all destroyed in the first battle. ( again - it is my opinion BABYLON is America ( Revelation 18 ) not Iraq but we'll find out in the future. I believe that the reason Iraq is not mentioned in the prophecy is because her land has already merged with Irans after her neighbors are wiped out so she comes under the heading of Persia in the Ezekiel prophecy. IMO. )

To be clear Ezekiel set the time frame of this battle as taking place after the Jews returned to Israel from a worldwide disperson. He identifies the period as the "latter years". Jews were scattered into all the nations for nearly two thousand years, but in Ezekiel 38 they are home again.

This answers the matter of Israel and how the current conflict will be resolved. According to G-d's own Prophets.

My prayer is that the LORD will make a way of escape for those who do not wish to be a part of this conflict but have nevertheless found themselves trapped in it. I pray they will make it out of this region of the world before all of this takes place and take their families with them.

-Jeri

 

[Saigon]

Jeremiah -

Perhaps the reason this conflict fasinates us more than any other is because within it we see the Bible,Torah and Koran made real. I totally understand that a religious person walking through Damascus Gate at dawn feels god in every footstep - I do too, and I am not religious.

But for a couple of million people, life in the Middle East is here and now in 2013. It is about jobs and school and life and death.

With all due respect to religion - any solution to the crisis needs to reflect the reality and politics on the ground - not the spiritual aspirations of any one group.

 

[eagle1462010]

Jeremiah -

Perhaps the reason this conflict fasinates us more than any other is because within it we see the Bible,Torah and Koran made real. I totally understand that a religious person walking through Damascus Gate at dawn feels god in every footstep - I do too, and I am not religious.

But for a couple of million people, life in the Middle East is here and now in 2013. It is about jobs and school and life and death.

With all due respect to religion - any solution to the crisis needs to reflect the reality and politics on the ground - not the spiritual aspirations of any one group.

Naive post. Perhaps someone who has never been over there either. In this area, EVERYTHING HAS TO DO ABOUT RELIGION. Religion is the rule in many of these countries. Not understanding or taking Religion into the equation is a mistake. Because these countries and people will not accept any solution that doesn't agree with their religion.

 

[Saigon]

Eagle -

I'd be delighted to hear your experiences living in the Middle East -by all means give us a brief overview of your background on this topic.

If you are more qualified to discuss this subject than I am, then of course I will listen to what you have to say.

 

[eagle1462010]

Eagle -

I'd be delighted to hear your experiences living in the Middle East -by all means give us a brief overview of your background on this topic.

If you are more qualified to discuss this subject than I am, then of course I will listen to what you have to say.

I didn't live in the Middle East. I served over there. I didn't have much time on the ground either.

But it doesn't take long to understand they are different in their culture and their ways. Secondly, I've been posting a VERY LONG TIME. Since the 90's, and I've learned alot over that time period.

Now back to calling you Naive on the issue of Religion in this Region. I'll just ask you a simple question.

Do the Middle Eastern countries like IRAN AND SYRIA base their ideals about society and gov't based on religion? A yes or no response would be appreciated.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I applaud your passion, Saigon, looking for a practical, viable solution & bringing up the discussion. It is obvious you are trying to find a peaceful resolution here. That is a noble act in itself.

I don't wish to see any people die in such a horrific manner but I've studied the Hebrew prophets for almost 25 years now and believe it is lining up exactly as they said it would. ( when have they ever been wrong? )

Again, McTernan is the only one I am aware of that realized Obadiahs prophecy of the First War must be fulfilled before the second one ---> Ezekiels war. Could we be standing at the door of it now? I think it is likely we are but I could be wrong. Things could calm down in Syria and Egypt and we could go another 50 years like this.. but then again..... we may not.

I say by all means make these plans, offer resolutions, work on it but be ready to make room for G-d to put all of mans best laid plans aside for His own when the time comes. Because when it comes to Israel? I believe He is going to do everything He said He would do through His prophets long ago.

I wish the best possible outcome for everyone. I sincerely do. - Jeri

 

[longknife]

I say - let them sort it out themselves!

We should keep our noses out of it,

Just don't let them bring their feuds here.

 

[Saigon]

I didn't live in the Middle East.

I did. And on both sides of the conflict.

To get back to what I said earlier - OF COURSE religion impacts everything that happens in the region. That was not my point.

My point was that any solution has to reflect the realities of life in 2013 on the streets of Magdal Shams, Metullah or Salt. It can not only be something that is written in the Bible, Koran or Talmud. It is often very difficult for religious people to see beyond, for instance, the Koran as being the best guide as to peace settlements, but we know that in reality, a workable settlement is unlikely to look like anything in any of the great books.

 

[eagle1462010]

BTW. Since you already reported my for being off topic. How about the Grand Mufti and the Waffen SS?

You are quoting Census numbers, aka HISTORY, and limit it to 1850. Selective History that benefits your opinion. Yet it is in the early 1900's that the region wanted the Jews to move there to build and cultivate the land. They were asked to come. They bought land from the OTTAMAN EMPIRE, aka Turkey. Who later fought with Germany and lost.

It was only in the 20th Century that the countries of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and etc. EVEN EXISTED AT ALL. Which was done by the British and the French after winning WWI. Which brings me to another point in the subject. In the HISTORY OF THE WORLD, the maps and countries have changed through Warfare. So why is that any different with Israel. They were attacked and they won. So why the hell would they give it back, which alot of it they did?

Had the Muslims won would they have given them ANYTHING BACK?

Of course they wouldn't. And their CHARTERS STATE THEY VOW TO DESTROY ISRAEL.

I'll end this, why are you against Israel on this thread as you defend the Palestinians claim to lands?

 

[eagle1462010]

I didn't live in the Middle East.

I did. And on both sides of the conflict.

To get back to what I said earlier - OF COURSE religion impacts everything that happens in the region. That was not my point.

My point was that any solution has to reflect the realities of life in 2013 on the streets of Magdal Shams, Metullah or Salt. It can not only be something that is written in the Bible, Koran or Talmud. It is often very difficult for religious people to see beyond, for instance, the Koran as being the best guide as to peace settlements, but we know that in reality, a workable settlement is unlikely to look like anything in any of the great books.

Will Hamas, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and etc.... EVER EXCEPT THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL?

 

[eagle1462010]

One point. Instead of making it the country of Palestine, why not make it part of Syria and Jordan. Allowing those trapped in the area to move to more Peaceful regions if they choose. In which case Syria and Jordan would be responsible for security in these areas.

Of course that would be VERY DIFFICULT NOW as Syria is in a state of Civil War and the Russians still have a Naval Base there.

Which goes back to Jerimiah's post about Russia in a way. Should another major conflict go on there, and Israel invades Syria, the Russian Fleet could possibly get caught in the middle. Russia has no intentions of ever losing their Naval Base there.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I didn't live in the Middle East.

I did. And on both sides of the conflict.

To get back to what I said earlier - OF COURSE religion impacts everything that happens in the region. That was not my point.

My point was that any solution has to reflect the realities of life in 2013 on the streets of Magdal Shams, Metullah or Salt. It can not only be something that is written in the Bible, Koran or Talmud. It is often very difficult for religious people to see beyond, for instance, the Koran as being the best guide as to peace settlements, but we know that in reality, a workable settlement is unlikely to look like anything in any of the great books.

Will Hamas, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and etc.... EVER EXCEPT THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL?

Unfortunately, no. They won't. But after the first battle in which Israels neighbors, including Hamas, Hezbollah, and Muslim brotherhood are driven out ( or perish ) there will be a 7 yr peace treaty made with Israel and half way through that period the treaty will be broken. Then the Russian led Islamic Army will march to the mountains of Jerusalem to make war against Israel.

Saigon has a great deal of knowledge about the middle east. I have no such abilities nor can I claim such knowledge. I only shared what the Hebrew prophets have to say about it. I have nothing else to add. Interesting discussion. Thank you.

 

[Saigon]

Will Hamas, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and etc.... EVER EXCEPT THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL?

Very possibly not. If they do, it will only be because they see no other way of holding power.

That is a very big obstacle.


btw. The whole SS thing has been discussed on many threads.I don't think its relevant here.

 

[eagle1462010]

Will Hamas, Hezballah, the Muslim Brotherhood, and etc.... EVER EXCEPT THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL?

Very possibly not. If they do, it will only be because they see no other way of holding power.

That is a very big obstacle.


btw. The whole SS thing has been discussed on many threads.I don't think its relevant here.

I haven't seen those threads here. I'm new to this site. I brought it up to help show the history of the region and the ORIGINS of the HATE.

History of Israel and Palestine in VERY Easy To Understand Maps Shows the maps and the history of the Wars. Shows land taken and given back under the conflicts.

 

[Saigon]

You are quoting Census numbers, aka HISTORY, and limit it to 1850. Selective History that benefits your opinion. Yet it is in the early 1900's that the region wanted the Jews to move there to build and cultivate the land. They were asked to come. They bought land from the OTTAMAN EMPIRE, aka Turkey. Who later fought with Germany and lost.

My point was not about the entire region - only about the West Bank. Israel has historical links to only one or two cities in that area.

Israel's claim to areas like Galilee and the central coast is cast iron in my book.

why are you against Israel on this thread as you defend the Palestinians claim to lands?

I'm definitely pro-Israel, but my way of thinking, being pro-Israeli also means pro-Palestinian.The ultimate success of each society is now dependant on the success of the other.