Your Government Owes You a Job

[georgephillip]

A job is an agreement between two parties to exchange compensation for labor. Labor can be considered a resource (though certainly not a 'pubic' resource), but a job is a specific transaction. As such, it's no one's business but the parties involved.

Millions of people transact with government to provide themselves with employment, or do you believe public jobs are not really jobs?

Let me make it simple for you, you are wrong about jobs being a resource.

"(R)esource is a source or supply from which benefit is produced.

"Typically resources are materials, services, staff, or other assets that are transformed to produce benefit and in the process may be consumed or made unavailable."


Have you decided if government jobs are real jobs?
If so, which ones?

Resource - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dblack]

Government is currently responsible for administering unemployment insurance, and I believe it could just as easily become an employer of last resort instead of paying people not to work.

Which us exactly why libertarians are opposed to government being mixed up in things like unemployment insurance in the first place.

Which institution would libertarians prefer have responsibility for things like UE?

Any but government. It's a fairly clear and concise point of view. We don't what government that presumes to be a caretaker or provider. Because when you mix the role of caretaker with the role of coercive authority you create servitude.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Sounds outlandish, doesn't it?

"A right to a job may sound outlandish, but it’s common sense. You need dollars to eat, and unless you steal the dollars, you generally have to earn them.

"If the government wants to protect property with cops, courts, and prisons, issue a single, common currency, and tax and fine us in it, it should at least guarantee we can work for our own dollars.

"Politicians ramble about equality of opportunity and the dignity of work, but to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, we need boots.

"And lest our boots stomp each other’s necks in senseless competition for too few jobs, we need a job guarantee.

"A job guarantee isn’t that radical.

"Thomas Paine proposed one in 1791.

"In 1944, FDR included the right to a living wage job in his Second Bill of Rights and his Republican opponent promised state-ensured employment.

"The Universal Declaration of Human Rights enshrined the right to work and philosophers Rawls and Dewey advocated government provide enough work.

"LBJ deliberated a JG and Martin Luther King Jr., demanded one."

Your Government Owes You a Job | The Nation

Since US Capitalism prefers extracting wealth as opposed to producing wealth leading to a situation where median household income today, adjusted for inflation, is lower than it was in 1989, it becomes clear that US capitalism no longer delivers the goods for a majority of its citizens.

The democratic solution calls for government to provide what the private sector is no longer capable of providing.

just wow, you're in the wrong country

Wrong, again.
You are!

"The 1978 Humphrey-Hawkins Act mandates that if the private sector does not create full employment, the public sector will provide the missing jobs."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

The problem facing this is two fold...One, finding work for these new employees to perform.
Two...Funding the wages and benefits.
You figure out how to put millions of people on the public payroll without punishing the private sector with tax increases and we have a deal. Otherwise, you are having a socialist pipe dream.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Sounds outlandish, doesn't it?

"A right to a job may sound outlandish, but it’s common sense. You need dollars to eat, and unless you steal the dollars, you generally have to earn them.

"If the government wants to protect property with cops, courts, and prisons, issue a single, common currency, and tax and fine us in it, it should at least guarantee we can work for our own dollars.

"Politicians ramble about equality of opportunity and the dignity of work, but to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, we need boots.

"And lest our boots stomp each other’s necks in senseless competition for too few jobs, we need a job guarantee.

"A job guarantee isn’t that radical.

"Thomas Paine proposed one in 1791.

"In 1944, FDR included the right to a living wage job in his Second Bill of Rights and his Republican opponent promised state-ensured employment.

"The Universal Declaration of Human Rights enshrined the right to work and philosophers Rawls and Dewey advocated government provide enough work.

"LBJ deliberated a JG and Martin Luther King Jr., demanded one."

Your Government Owes You a Job | The Nation

Since US Capitalism prefers extracting wealth as opposed to producing wealth leading to a situation where median household income today, adjusted for inflation, is lower than it was in 1989, it becomes clear that US capitalism no longer delivers the goods for a majority of its citizens.

The democratic solution calls for government to provide what the private sector is no longer capable of providing.

Well, we could take every unemployed US citizen and give them jobs.
Pay half of them to dig holes and pay the other half to fill the holes. 100% employment achieved.
Unfortunately, digging useless holes, then filling said useless holes contributes nothing to society even though it provides 100% employment.

Do you have a shortage of holes in your streets?

"The employment corps could address a host of national human and physical infrastructure needs including the building and restoration of roads, highways, dams, museums, parks, the postal service, child care centers, health clinics and schools.

"It could serve as a pilot site for the implementation of innovative green technologies that would enhance our environmental health. And the jobs could offer decent pay and benefits.

"We propose that the minimum salary for jobs in the employment corps would be $23,000 and provide a benefits package that would include the health insurance options offered to all federal employees. We estimate that the average cost per job directly created by the employment corps would be $50,000 including..."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

Where is the MONEY?

 

[percysunshine]

The Government owes me a job, and they have not paid up. They are not even paying interest on the note.

Where can I go to collect?

Can I write off this job as 'bad debt' when I file my tax returns? What will the IRS say?

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Do you have a shortage of holes in your streets?

"The employment corps could address a host of national human and physical infrastructure needs including the building and restoration of roads, highways, dams, museums, parks, the postal service, child care centers, health clinics and schools.

"It could serve as a pilot site for the implementation of innovative green technologies that would enhance our environmental health. And the jobs could offer decent pay and benefits.

"We propose that the minimum salary for jobs in the employment corps would be $23,000 and provide a benefits package that would include the health insurance options offered to all federal employees. We estimate that the average cost per job directly created by the employment corps would be $50,000 including..."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

That 'wooshing' sound is the point zipping over your head.
But hey, if $23,000 is an acceptable living wage for you, go for it, and good luck.

Would you prefer $0 per year?

Straw man enters the room.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Jobs are a resource which capitalism allocates imperfectly, at best.

Jobs are not a resource.

I would think economic democracy would mandate government's help in providing employment.

Economic democracy would. Economic freedom would not.

Land, labor, and capital are resources.
Why wouldn't jobs qualify?

Labor is not a resource. Labor is a commodity. Subject to the laws of supply and demand.
Capital is a resource. Without capital, it is impossible to start a business.

 

[dblack]

Jobs are a resource which capitalism allocates imperfectly, at best.

Jobs are not a resource.

I would think economic democracy would mandate government's help in providing employment.

Economic democracy would. Economic freedom would not.

Land, labor, and capital are resources.
Why wouldn't jobs qualify?

I'm actually more interested in this notion of 'economic democracy'. Where does that come in? It's certainly not in the Constitution.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because the WPA turned out better than Enron and Lehman Brothers, remember?

"Almost every community in the United States had a new park, bridge or school constructed by the agency. The WPA's initial appropriation in 1935 was for $4.9 billion (about 6.7 percent of the 1935 GDP), and in total it spent $13.4 billion.[2]

"At its peak in 1938, it provided paid jobs for three million unemployed men and women, as well as youth in a separate division, the National Youth Administration."

It did? In terms of what? The stuff I heard about Whistle, Piss, and Argue doesn't paint it as a rousing success story, and actually makes Enron look good.

You've already established your ignorance is matched only by your conceit; why are you repeating yourself?

"The amount of infrastructure projects of the WPA included 40,000 new and 85,000 improved buildings.

"These new buildings included 5,900 new schools; 9,300 new auditoriums, gyms, and recreational buildings; 1,000 new libraries; 7,000 new dormitories; and 900 new armories. In addition, infrastructure projects included 2,302 stadiums, grandstands, and bleachers; 52 fairgrounds and rodeo grounds; 1,686 parks covering 75,152 acres; 3,085 playgrounds; 3,026 athletic fields; 805 swimming pools; 1,817 handball courts; 10,070 tennis courts; 2,261 horseshoe pits; 1,101 ice-skating areas; 138 outdoor theatres; 254 golf courses; and 65 ski jumps.[18]

"Total expenditures on WPA projects through June 1941, totaled approximately $11.4 billion.

"Over $4 billion was spent on highway, road, and street projects; more than $1 billion on public buildings, including the iconic Dock Street Theater in Charleston, the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles, and the Timberline Lodge on Oregon's Mt. Hood.[19]

"More than $1 billion was spent on publicly owned or operated utilities; and another $1 billion on welfare projects, including sewing projects for women, the distribution of surplus commodities, and school lunch projects.[20]

"One construction project was the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut, the bridges of which were each designed as architecturally unique.[21]

"In its eight-year run, the WPA built 325 firehouses and renovated 2,384 of them across the United States.

"The 20,000 miles of water mains, installed by their hand as well, contributed to increased fire protection across the country.[22]"

Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How much did all of this cost in relatioon to comparable projects run by civilian firms? How long did the projects take? Why was the WPA famous for creating poor work habits even among people who had good work habits? Why do you think wasting government money is proof something works, but wasting private money is proof it doesn't?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Millions of people transact with government to provide themselves with employment, or do you believe public jobs are not really jobs?

Let me make it simple for you, you are wrong about jobs being a resource.

"(R)esource is a source or supply from which benefit is produced.

"Typically resources are materials, services, staff, or other assets that are transformed to produce benefit and in the process may be consumed or made unavailable."


Have you decided if government jobs are real jobs?
If so, which ones?

Resource - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, people/labor is a resource/commodity. The value of the labor can be factored into the GDP. Jobs have no value in and of themselves. The value of the labor varies according to the skill of the person who is filling the position. If jobs had a flat value you could stick a high school drop out or a highly trained technician into any position in the company and the job would still produce the exact same value. Since it, obviously, does not work that way, jobs are not a commodity/resource.

I hope that was not to complicated for your whackadoodle fed brain cells to comprehend.

 

[alan1]

Do you have a shortage of holes in your streets?

"The employment corps could address a host of national human and physical infrastructure needs including the building and restoration of roads, highways, dams, museums, parks, the postal service, child care centers, health clinics and schools.

"It could serve as a pilot site for the implementation of innovative green technologies that would enhance our environmental health. And the jobs could offer decent pay and benefits.

"We propose that the minimum salary for jobs in the employment corps would be $23,000 and provide a benefits package that would include the health insurance options offered to all federal employees. We estimate that the average cost per job directly created by the employment corps would be $50,000 including..."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

That 'wooshing' sound is the point zipping over your head.
But hey, if $23,000 is an acceptable living wage for you, go for it, and good luck.

Would you prefer $0 per year?

Is $0 per year the only other option?
If it is for you, go ahead and pick one.

 

[alan1]

If your govt is cuba, venezuela, nicaragua, north korea, russia or china perhaps.....those progressive utopias will surely open their collective arms for another "revolucionary" marxist douchebag ...

"Involuntary unemployment is barbaric. In the wealthiest country in history, almost 30 million people wish they had full-time work. But, as always, there aren’t enough jobs. And because economic security requires decent work, it’s unsurprising that 50 million people are poverty-stricken and 16 million children are hungry.

"This is a disgrace and an economic error: the US government can easily afford a Job guarantee (JG) program, becoming our employer of last resort."

You don't have to give up your private property to be entitled to a job, Loser.

Your Government Owes You a Job | The Nation

Please tell me exactly where in the US Constitution that a job is a guaranteed right granted by the US government.
Involuntary unemployment is not barbaric, involuntary servitude is.

 

[alan1]

"Involunary unemployment is barbaric"...

Yeah, that and a hundred other bleeding heart utopian causes....

Life is so unfair, only communist ideals can triumph...its been proven !

Workers of the world, unite ! Lol

Involuntary unemployment in the richest country in history is entirely solvable. Those who've seen their share of US income triple over the past forty years, often by outsourcing middle class US jobs to Communist China, can be taxed at the same rates they were in the 1950s and the resulting revenues used implement a jobs program that's independent of capital flight.

Why don't the unemployed move to China and take their jobs back?
Just curious.

 

[alan1]

Government is currently responsible for administering unemployment insurance, and I believe it could just as easily become an employer of last resort instead of paying people not to work.

If government paid half of the unemployed to dig holes, and then paid the other half to fill the holes, we'd then have 100% employment. Can government tax the hole
diggers and hole fillers enough to pay both the hole diggers and hole fillers for their work?
The reality is, unless a government employee pays 100% of his government income back in taxes, he is an economic cost to the system. Therefore, government cannot achieve 100% employment by paying people. Be that paying them to work, or paying them to not work. The simple solution is for the government to not pay people for either circumstance.

 

[georgephillip]

Which us exactly why libertarians are opposed to government being mixed up in things like unemployment insurance in the first place.

Which institution would libertarians prefer have responsibility for things like UE?

Any but government. It's a fairly clear and concise point of view. We don't what government that presumes to be a caretaker or provider. Because when you mix the role of caretaker with the role of coercive authority you create servitude.

It isn't at all clear to me what institution except government could implement an UE program. Church? Corporate?? Wouldn't the Constitution protect you from servitude to the state in a republic?

 

[georgephillip]

just wow, you're in the wrong country

Wrong, again.
You are!

"The 1978 Humphrey-Hawkins Act mandates that if the private sector does not create full employment, the public sector will provide the missing jobs."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

The problem facing this is two fold...One, finding work for these new employees to perform.
Two...Funding the wages and benefits.
You figure out how to put millions of people on the public payroll without punishing the private sector with tax increases and we have a deal. Otherwise, you are having a socialist pipe dream.

There's no shortage of work or job applicants for a public jobs program, and the richest citizens, natural and corporate, are sitting on billions of dollars susceptible to a financial transaction TAX or a property TAX on intangible property like stocks and bonds. It's time to stop punishing productive elements of society in order to fund the lifestyles of parasites.

"In short, we have proposed the formation of a National Investment Employment Corps similar to the Works Progress Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps developed in response to the unemployment crisis of the Great Depression.

"The employment corps could address a host of national human and physical infrastructure needs including the building and restoration of roads, highways, dams, museums, parks, the postal service, child care centers, health clinics and schools.

"It could serve as a pilot site for the implementation of innovative green technologies that would enhance our environmental health. And the jobs could offer decent pay and benefits."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

 

[georgephillip]

Well, we could take every unemployed US citizen and give them jobs.
Pay half of them to dig holes and pay the other half to fill the holes. 100% employment achieved.
Unfortunately, digging useless holes, then filling said useless holes contributes nothing to society even though it provides 100% employment.

Do you have a shortage of holes in your streets?

"The employment corps could address a host of national human and physical infrastructure needs including the building and restoration of roads, highways, dams, museums, parks, the postal service, child care centers, health clinics and schools.

"It could serve as a pilot site for the implementation of innovative green technologies that would enhance our environmental health. And the jobs could offer decent pay and benefits.

"We propose that the minimum salary for jobs in the employment corps would be $23,000 and provide a benefits package that would include the health insurance options offered to all federal employees. We estimate that the average cost per job directly created by the employment corps would be $50,000 including..."

Federal Law Requires Job Creation - NYTimes.com

Where is the MONEY?

"At the top where it counts the United States dominates the list of wealthiest people in the world with more billionaires than any other country. Their are 8 million millionaires in the United States and the median family net worth is $300,000.

"Per capita PPP can be misleading as it includes the entire population multiplied into the GDP.

"National wealth would be a far better measure.

"The sovereign worth of all assets held by US citizens is in the range of 70 to 100 trillion dollars.

"The united States represents 20% of the world economy and its currency is the reserve currency of the planet.

"The financial markets of the United States are the deepest and most liquid and when investors are looking for safety no instrument on the planet can match US Treasuries.

"The United States is by far the wealthiest country on the planet."

Why is United States of America the richest country in the world

Now tell me how the richest of the rich earned their wealth without bribing politicians for favorable tax and trade policies.

 

[eagle1462010]

I'm going to sum up the whole OP.

We need another Stimulus Package......................

That's it, after the other money didn't fix the dang thing, and as our debt is out of control.

 

[georgephillip]

The Government owes me a job, and they have not paid up. They are not even paying interest on the note.

Where can I go to collect?

Can I write off this job as 'bad debt' when I file my tax returns? What will the IRS say?

.

Get a life?

 

[dblack]

Which institution would libertarians prefer have responsibility for things like UE?

Any but government. It's a fairly clear and concise point of view. We don't what government that presumes to be a caretaker or provider. Because when you mix the role of caretaker with the role of coercive authority you create servitude.

It isn't at all clear to me what institution except government could implement an UE program. Church? Corporate??

Unemployment compensation is insurance, not charity. It is paid for through premiums taken out of an employees pay. There's no reason private companies can't offer similar coverage .

Wouldn't the Constitution protect you from servitude to the state in a republic?

Apparently not.