You Don't Have to Be a Bigot to Be Called a Racist Anymore

[Hiryuu]

Obviously YOUR ASSUMPTIONS are preventing your understanding. My whole POINT (the first paragraph) was saying what you just said. Truth and False, good and evil, right and wrong, positive and negative are not racial concepts, but are concepts that impact race. Ergo, falsehoods about race creates division with those vested in the truth about race. Race is not creating the division.....its falsehoods about race creating conflicts with truth about race that is divisive.

You find conflict in race because you insist on finding conflict with anything that doesn't suit your desire to keep race as a defining factor. You keep providing example after example of exactly what I understand to be self-defeating on your part, and attempt to suggest I don't understand something.

Say it again, and you still won't understand.

 

[AKIP]

Obviously YOUR ASSUMPTIONS are preventing your understanding. My whole POINT (the first paragraph) was saying what you just said. Truth and False, good and evil, right and wrong, positive and negative are not racial concepts, but are concepts that impact race. Ergo, falsehoods about race creates division with those vested in the truth about race. Race is not creating the division.....its falsehoods about race creating conflicts with truth about race that is divisive.

You find conflict in race because you insist on finding conflict with anything that doesn't suit your desire to keep race as a defining factor. You keep providing example after example of exactly what I understand to be self-defeating on your part, and attempt to suggest I don't understand something.

Say it again, and you still won't understand.

Again, more assumptions. Give some examples. The theory that I work from is the theory of cause and effect and actions begetting reactions. I simply explain the historical actions that begat the reaction known as the present. ALL ACTIONS produce REACTIONS.

 

[Hiryuu]

Again, more assumptions. Give some examples. The theory that I work from is the theory of cause and effect and actions begetting reactions. I simply explain the historical actions that begat the reaction known as the present.

It isn't theory or assumption to suggest that if someone doesn't want to be classified by race, then they need to stop classifying everything by race. It isn't a theory or assumption that as long as someone looks at anything with regards to race, that won't ever be an accurate representation of those who don't use race as a qualifier. It isn't a theory or assumption that if someone continues to remain mired in the same racial division they have always been insisting on, and use history as an excuse to do the same thing in changing the future, then they simply don't understand what is necessary to go anywhere other than where they have already been.

Tell me again what you don't understand.
(ah what the **** am I saying, you are never going to understand, which is what I posted in the first place, when I also stated you would insist on arguing with me, and you have)

Maybe you can understand this, Good Luck, C-ya on the other side, if you ever get here.

 

[AKIP]

Again, more assumptions. Give some examples. The theory that I work from is the theory of cause and effect and actions begetting reactions. I simply explain the historical actions that begat the reaction known as the present.

It isn't theory or assumption to suggest that if someone doesn't want to be classified by race, then they need to stop classifying everything by race. It isn't a theory or assumption that as long as someone looks at anything with regards to race, that won't ever be an accurate representation of those who don't use race as a qualifier. It isn't a theory or assumption that if someone continues to remain mired in the same racial division they have always been insisting on, and use history as an excuse to do the same thing in changing the future, then they simply don't understand what is necessary to go anywhere other than where they have already been.

Tell me again what you don't understand.

I see what you are saying. Its kind of like "gender neutral" children. There are a growing number of parents who do not accept the concept of gender. Just because there is a difference does not mean we as humans need to note the difference. We should pretend like we don't see differences and this world will be a utopia and no division, no border differences, no religious differences, no performance differences, no class differences, ect. See no difference and there will be no difference and problems. PRESTO!

I am gaining higher understanding

 

[Hiryuu]

I see what you are saying. Its kind of like "gender neutral" children. There are a growing number of parents who do not accept the concept of gender. Just because there is a difference does not mean we as humans need to note the difference. We should pretend like we don't see differences and this world will be a utopia and no division, no border differences, no religious differences, no performance differences, no class differences, ect. See no difference and there will be no difference and problems. PRESTO!

I am gaining higher understanding

I wouldn't say that the gender neutral argument is the same, but it is along those tracks, and that does show some understanding. I don't deny there have been abuses because of race, nor do I deny that people want to keep race as a qualifier for selfish reasons. It has just been my experience that race doesn't not help me better decide anything with any semblance of equal treatment to all for a purpose worth pursuing. I am going to go on without it, and my choice to do so won't injure anyone.

We have a long way to go before we ever get close to Utopia. One thing I have noticed is young people who have had the opportunity to become desensitized to race. I know a lot of young people who just don't care about race, and aren't struggling with it. Their vision doesn't involve struggling with the past to move forward. What they want (and I want) is to do what is necessary to make our focus about more productive measures than rehashing the past, and not giving credibility to the offenses of the present by recognizing them as being anything other than an obstacle to overcome (and leave behind).

I cannot say it works to any other obstacle, but I can say that qualification by race isn't required in achieving a worthwhile goal that attempts to mitigate the influence of racial division.

 

[AKIP]

I see what you are saying. Its kind of like "gender neutral" children. There are a growing number of parents who do not accept the concept of gender. Just because there is a difference does not mean we as humans need to note the difference. We should pretend like we don't see differences and this world will be a utopia and no division, no border differences, no religious differences, no performance differences, no class differences, ect. See no difference and there will be no difference and problems. PRESTO!

I am gaining higher understanding

I wouldn't say that the gender neutral argument is the same, but it is along those tracks, and that does show some understanding. I don't deny there have been abuses because of race, nor do I deny that people want to keep race as a qualifier for selfish reasons. It has just been my experience that race doesn't not help me better decide anything with any semblance of equal treatment to all for a purpose worth pursuing. I am going to go on without it, and my choice to do so won't injure anyone.

We have a long way to go before we ever get close to Utopia. One thing I have noticed is young people who have had the opportunity to become desensitized to race. I know a lot of young people who just don't care about race, and aren't struggling with it. Their vision doesn't involve struggling with the past to move forward. What they want (and I want) is to do what is necessary to make our focus about more productive measures than rehashing the past, and not giving credibility to the offenses of the present by recognizing them as being anything other than an obstacle to overcome (and leave behind).

I cannot say it works to any other obstacle, but I can say that qualification by race isn't required in achieving a worthwhile goal that attempts to mitigate the influence of racial division.

There is the pesky subconscious that we have to deal with, however. Even though we may convince our conscious minds to not see differences, our subconscious, nevertheless, does not care about that. We are equipped with senses to help us survive. Smell, touch, vision, sound, taste….all to promote our survival. We have senses and memory and all that information, even if we are not conscious of it gets taken in and processed for threat assessment and survival by the subconscious. Thus, in truth I believe we are only fooling ourselves when we attempt to not see difference. This is why a person, who might not see color, is more likely to shoot a black person than a white person as demonstrated in test of people’s responses to potentially threatening situations. In the split second, the subconscious takes over and not the politically correct conscious mind with its agenda to be color blind. Society has already programed the fear of blacks being a greater threat via news, etc. The past of racism have left a legacy that peoples subconscious will absorb, even when their conscious seeks to not see it.

 

[Hiryuu]

There is the pesky subconscious that we have to deal with, however. Even though we may convince our conscious minds to not see differences, our subconscious, nevertheless, does not care about that. We are equipped with senses to help us survive. Smell, touch, vision, sound, taste….all to promote our survival. We have senses and memory and all that information, even if we are not conscious of it gets taken in and processed for threat assessment and survival by the subconscious. Thus, in truth I believe we are only fooling ourselves when we attempt to not see difference. This is why a person, who might not see color, is more likely to shoot a black person than a white person as demonstrated in test of people’s responses to potentially threatening situations. In the split second, the subconscious takes over and not the politically correct conscious mind with its agenda to be color blind. Society has already programed the fear of blacks being a greater threat via news, etc. The past of racism have left a legacy that peoples subconscious will absorb, even when their conscious seeks to not see it.

If you are reduced to pulling out the, "you think what you don't know you think", well, that pretty much sums up who is assuming what about whom. I still cannot find a use for it, and as long as it isn't productive in heading anywhere we need to go, I don't need it and you can keep it.

I am not saying some people don't think one way or another. I am saying they don't have to, just because it would suit a purpose that leads to nothing productive.

 

[AKIP]

There is the pesky subconscious that we have to deal with, however. Even though we may convince our conscious minds to not see differences, our subconscious, nevertheless, does not care about that. We are equipped with senses to help us survive. Smell, touch, vision, sound, taste….all to promote our survival. We have senses and memory and all that information, even if we are not conscious of it gets taken in and processed for threat assessment and survival by the subconscious. Thus, in truth I believe we are only fooling ourselves when we attempt to not see difference. This is why a person, who might not see color, is more likely to shoot a black person than a white person as demonstrated in test of people’s responses to potentially threatening situations. In the split second, the subconscious takes over and not the politically correct conscious mind with its agenda to be color blind. Society has already programed the fear of blacks being a greater threat via news, etc. The past of racism have left a legacy that peoples subconscious will absorb, even when their conscious seeks to not see it.

If you are reduced to pulling out the, "you think what you don't know you think", well, that pretty much sums up who is assuming what about whom. I still cannot find a use for it, and as long as it isn't productive in heading anywhere we need to go, I don't need it and you can keep it.

I am not saying some people don't think one way or another. I am saying they don't have to, just because it would suit a purpose that leads to nothing productive.

We are both assuming. I am assuming that the information and science about how the mind works is valid. You are assuming, if you disagree, that it is not. From what I have studied and learned, there is a conscious mind and subconscious mind and they often are not in concert.

What I am saying is this. We have senses and those senses absorbs information and records it....latter to be processed in decision making and actions for survival. A person can have your beliefs about not caring about or seeing value in race or color, as being productive, but your subconscious is taking in ALL INPUTS. Hence, when you watch the Olympics and all the sprinters in the 100 meter finals are black, your mind takes note of that regardless of what you are conscious of. If you watch the news and most murder suspects on the news are black, your mind takes note of that. If you look inventors and all you see is white your mind takes note of that. If you look at poor countries and most are non-white your mind takes note of that. All that information gets stored and is behind the scene using that information somehow, whether you are conscious of it or not. It's called......HUMAN NATURE.

Here is the thing. If someone is on top, we naturally assume that is because they are better than the rest. When we look at the NFL, for example, we naturally assume that the teams going to the super bowl are superior to the teams with losing records. Entities that are at the top of a competition is naturally assumed to be better than the rest, without any explanation otherwise. Its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior. Hence, with the mind thinking that its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior, not looking back into history for details, one today will assume black inferiority, subconsciously, just from the information one observe of the order today, even if one seeks to be color blind. Your eyes see the distinction and differences and sends it to your brain and your brain processes it, like it or not. It's programmed to do that for your survival. You can't consciously turn that on and off. A person is fooling themselves if they say they do not see differences. I say BS. People fool themselves into believing that BS. If you are a young child and have never been exposed to differences racial and have not seen what the world looks like....you have clear conscious and subconscious. However, by the time one is 8 in America they have been programmed racially.

In light of that, not explaining why things are the way the are, racially, leaves the default assumption of racial superiority and inferiority to explain differences. Yet, you say focusing on the differences is the problem but without focus there will never be an explanation. Hence, those who seek to conserve the narrative of racial supremacy don't want black inequality explained or focused on.

 

[Hiryuu]

We are both assuming. I am assuming that the information and science about how the mind works is valid. You are assuming, if you disagree, that it is not. From what I have studied and learned, there is a conscious mind and subconscious mind and they often are not in concert.

What I am saying is this. We have senses and those senses absorbs information and records it....latter to be processed in decision making and actions for survival. A person can have your beliefs about not caring about or seeing value in race or color, as being productive, but your subconscious is taking in ALL INPUTS. Hence, when you watch the Olympics and all the sprinters in the 100 meter finals are black, your mind takes note of that regardless of what you are conscious of. If you watch the news and most murder suspects on the news are black, your mind takes note of that. If you look inventors and all you see is white your mind takes note of that. If you look at poor countries and most are non-white your mind takes note of that. All that information gets stored and is behind the scene using that information somehow, whether you are conscious of it or not. It's called......HUMAN NATURE.

Here is the thing. If someone is on top, we naturally assume that is because they are better than the rest. When we look at the NFL, for example, we naturally assume that the teams going to the super bowl are superior to the teams with losing records. Entities that are at the top of a competition is naturally assumed to be better than the rest, without any explanation otherwise. Its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior. Hence, with the mind thinking that its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior, not looking back into history for details, one today will assume black inferiority, subconsciously, just from the information one observe of the order today, even if one seeks to be color blind. Your eyes see the distinction and differences and sends it to your brain and your brain processes it, like it or not. It's programmed to do that for your survival. You can't consciously turn that on and off. A person is fooling themselves if they say they do not see differences. I say BS. People fool themselves into believing that BS. If you are a young child and have never been exposed to differences racial and have not seen what the world looks like....you have clear conscious and subconscious. However, by the time one is 8 in America they have been programmed racially.

In light of that, not explaining why things are the way the are, racially, leaves the default assumption of racial superiority and inferiority to explain differences. Yet, you say focusing on the differences is the problem but without focus there will never be an explanation. Hence, those who seek to conserve the narrative of racial supremacy don't want black inequality explained or focused on.

Show me any scientific data that supports the idea we are required to use race as a qualifier, when making a decision with the express purpose of not using race as a qualifier. You aren't going to find it because it doesn't exist.

Between the two of us, the best assertion you could make, would be that you cannot stop using race as a qualifier, and the only assumption possible, is if you assume I am restricted to your desires or inabilities.

 

[AKIP]

We are both assuming. I am assuming that the information and science about how the mind works is valid. You are assuming, if you disagree, that it is not. From what I have studied and learned, there is a conscious mind and subconscious mind and they often are not in concert.

What I am saying is this. We have senses and those senses absorbs information and records it....latter to be processed in decision making and actions for survival. A person can have your beliefs about not caring about or seeing value in race or color, as being productive, but your subconscious is taking in ALL INPUTS. Hence, when you watch the Olympics and all the sprinters in the 100 meter finals are black, your mind takes note of that regardless of what you are conscious of. If you watch the news and most murder suspects on the news are black, your mind takes note of that. If you look inventors and all you see is white your mind takes note of that. If you look at poor countries and most are non-white your mind takes note of that. All that information gets stored and is behind the scene using that information somehow, whether you are conscious of it or not. It's called......HUMAN NATURE.

Here is the thing. If someone is on top, we naturally assume that is because they are better than the rest. When we look at the NFL, for example, we naturally assume that the teams going to the super bowl are superior to the teams with losing records. Entities that are at the top of a competition is naturally assumed to be better than the rest, without any explanation otherwise. Its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior. Hence, with the mind thinking that its the natural order for the superior to rise about the inferior, not looking back into history for details, one today will assume black inferiority, subconsciously, just from the information one observe of the order today, even if one seeks to be color blind. Your eyes see the distinction and differences and sends it to your brain and your brain processes it, like it or not. It's programmed to do that for your survival. You can't consciously turn that on and off. A person is fooling themselves if they say they do not see differences. I say BS. People fool themselves into believing that BS. If you are a young child and have never been exposed to differences racial and have not seen what the world looks like....you have clear conscious and subconscious. However, by the time one is 8 in America they have been programmed racially.

In light of that, not explaining why things are the way the are, racially, leaves the default assumption of racial superiority and inferiority to explain differences. Yet, you say focusing on the differences is the problem but without focus there will never be an explanation. Hence, those who seek to conserve the narrative of racial supremacy don't want black inequality explained or focused on.

Show me any scientific data that supports the idea we are required to use race as a qualifier, when making a decision with the express purpose of not using race as a qualifier. You aren't going to find it because it doesn't exist.

Between the two of us, the best assertion you could make, would be that you cannot stop using race as a qualifier, and the only assumption possible, is if you assume I am restricted to your desires or inabilities.

Never said there was such as specific scientific data. What I am saying is that whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not, your mind has recorded the distinction and difference we consciously have termed "race". In other words, any claim of not seeing "race", is complete BS. You see race. You process race. You just don't want to talk about it.

 

[Hiryuu]

Never said there was such as specific scientific data. What I am saying is that whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not, your mind has recorded the distinction and difference we consciously have termed "race". In other words, any claim of not seeing "race", is complete BS. You see race. You process race. You just don't want to talk about it.

No sir mister, you don't get to assume what my mind is doing, nor what I am thinking. You don't get to assume I don't want to talk about anything, because I have been here talking to you for quite some time.

What I am saying is that your bullshit is bullshit and goes no where productive.

The major difference in what you think and what I think, is that what I think doesn't require you or anyone to do anything, where what you think requires others to agree with you for it to ever make any kind of difference. I'm doing what I am doing with or without you, will get where I need to go, and you are free to keep repeating history if you just cannot learn from your mistakes.

 

[AKIP]

Never said there was such as specific scientific data. What I am saying is that whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not, your mind has recorded the distinction and difference we consciously have termed "race". In other words, any claim of not seeing "race", is complete BS. You see race. You process race. You just don't want to talk about it.

No sir mister, you don't get to assume what my mind is doing, nor what I am thinking. You don't get to assume I don't want to talk about anything, because I have been here talking to you for quite some time.

What I am saying is that your bullshit is bullshit and goes no where productive.

You are so self absorbed that you cannot distinguish between a general "you", which is talking about a class of people, versus the specific "You" is it talking about an individual. I am not focusing on the specific YOU, when I talk about how the human mind works. I can pretty much safely assume that you take a shit at least a few time as week....and I don't even know you. However, I know you are humans and humans take shits. Hence, I can assume in a similar way that your mind records the sensory inputs from your eyes, ears, nose, mouth and skin. You SEE RACE, whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not. YOU SEE RACE!!!! If you see it, then your mind is doing something with that information, subconsciously, if not consciously. If you do not realize that.....then you need to study up.

People see race......they just don't like talking about it because the truths hurt.

 

[Hiryuu]

You are so self absorbed that you cannot distinguish between a general "you", which is talking about a class of people, versus the specific "You" is it talking about an individual. I am not focusing on the specific YOU, when I talk about how the human mind works. I can pretty much safely assume that you take a shit at least a few time as week....and I don't even know you. However, I know you are humans and humans take shits. Hence, I can assume in a similar way that your mind records the sensory inputs from your eyes, ears, nose, mouth and skin. You SEE RACE, whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not. YOU SEE RACE!!!! If you see it, then your mind is doing something with that information, subconsciously, if not consciously. If you do not realize that.....then you need to study up.

Thinking of other people, and not shackling them with race, is not self-absorbed. I can embrace everyone without race, and if they choose to exclude themselves, then that is their choice. You cannot, and never will be able to define the way I see things, because you obviously cannot see it.

 

[Freiheit]

You might be Native American....but humans started as AFRICAN.....and developed different superficial designs based upon living in certain areas OUTSIDE OF AFRICA for thousands of years. The Native American design makes you the only true Americans biologically.....while others are imported phenotypes. They only make my model in Africa, despite me being born in America.

Yeah. That's true, I agree. Absolutely, humanity started in Africa, geographically and biologically speaking. I won't debate that.

Actually, Sumer, being the earliest recorded civilization.

The people we call Native Americans immigrated from Asia over the land bridge connecting Alaska and Siberia. Apparently there are no people indigenous to the Americas. There is a mounting body of evidence that homo sapiens evolved in areas other than
Africa.

 

[AKIP]

You are so self absorbed that you cannot distinguish between a general "you", which is talking about a class of people, versus the specific "You" is it talking about an individual. I am not focusing on the specific YOU, when I talk about how the human mind works. I can pretty much safely assume that you take a shit at least a few time as week....and I don't even know you. However, I know you are humans and humans take shits. Hence, I can assume in a similar way that your mind records the sensory inputs from your eyes, ears, nose, mouth and skin. You SEE RACE, whether you choose to use it as a qualifier or not. YOU SEE RACE!!!! If you see it, then your mind is doing something with that information, subconsciously, if not consciously. If you do not realize that.....then you need to study up.

Thinking of other people, and not shackling them with race, is not self-absorbed. I can embrace everyone without race, and if they choose to exclude themselves, then that is their choice. You cannot, and never will be able to define the way I see things, because you obviously cannot see it.

If I know you take a shit....then I know you see race. How can I know one and not know the other? If I know what your ass does....I probably know what your mind does too, regardless if you admit to it or not.

 

[Hiryuu]

If I know you take a shit....then I know you see race. How can I know one and not know the other?

Can I identify a person's race, in most cases yes, Does it make any difference to me what anyone's race is, nope, not gonna, don't care. I simply objected to your idea I had to think any particular way because of someone's race.

 

[AKIP]

You might be Native American....but humans started as AFRICAN.....and developed different superficial designs based upon living in certain areas OUTSIDE OF AFRICA for thousands of years. The Native American design makes you the only true Americans biologically.....while others are imported phenotypes. They only make my model in Africa, despite me being born in America.

Yeah. That's true, I agree. Absolutely, humanity started in Africa, geographically and biologically speaking. I won't debate that.

Actually, Sumer, being the earliest recorded civilization.

The people we call Native Americans immigrated from Asia over the land bridge connecting Alaska and Siberia. Apparently there are no people indigenous to the Americas. There is a mounting body of evidence that homo sapiens evolved in areas other than
Africa.

True, but my point is that we look different, racially, due to how a specific environment shaped us. Native Americans do not look like Asians because they evolved for thousands of years in a different environment.

 

[Hiryuu]

The people we call Native Americans immigrated from Asia over the land bridge connecting Alaska and Siberia. Apparently there are no people indigenous to the Americas. There is a mounting body of evidence that homo sapiens evolved in areas other than
Africa.

Which would mean that in fact, the only thing that would make them "native" Americans would be the point in time their arrival is considered (by whomever wants to make that distinction, for whatever purpose that distinction may serve a cause) more significant than anyone other point in time of arrival.

 

[Freiheit]

You might be Native American....but humans started as AFRICAN.....and developed different superficial designs based upon living in certain areas OUTSIDE OF AFRICA for thousands of years. The Native American design makes you the only true Americans biologically.....while others are imported phenotypes. They only make my model in Africa, despite me being born in America.

Yeah. That's true, I agree. Absolutely, humanity started in Africa, geographically and biologically speaking. I won't debate that.

Actually, Sumer, being the earliest recorded civilization.

The people we call Native Americans immigrated from Asia over the land bridge connecting Alaska and Siberia. Apparently there are no people indigenous to the Americas. There is a mounting body of evidence that homo sapiens evolved in areas other than
Africa.

I tend to agree evolution is affected by environment.

True, but my point is that we look different, racially, due to how a specific environment shaped us. Native Americans do not look like Asians because they evolved for thousands of years in a different environment.

 

[AKIP]

If I know you take a shit....then I know you see race. How can I know one and not know the other?

Can I identify a person's race, in most cases yes, Does it make any difference to me what anyone's race is, nope, not gonna, don't care. I simply objected to your idea I had to think any particular way because of someone's race.

If someone held a gun to your head and told you to make a choice between two people and if you got it wrong they would blow your head off, which person would you pick. Black person and white person with no outward physical fitness difference. Pick who can run the fastest 60 meters. A black and Asian person. Pick who can solve this complex math problem. A black and white person. Pick who has a committed murder. Forced into making a split second choice......I bet you would find that race does make you think a particular way.

People are CONDITIONED to think a certain way about race. When one is comfortable and not stressed....sure race means nothing......but put in a survival situation and see what happens.