Yes or no? NATO PTOVOKED this war.

[justoffal]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Jo

 

[frigidweirdo]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Jo

No, not really. NATO has been more or less dead for decades. Putin wanted the Ukraine for historical purposes, just as he's been attacking Georgia and helping out in Kazakhstan and the like. He's using NATO as an excuse and it doesn't even really add up anyway.

 

[Meathead]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Jo

Not sure what "ptovoked" means.

Russia was humiliated with the fall of the Soviet Union and further humiliated and alarmed when NATO expanded to its doorstep. When great powers are humiliated, it is inevitable that with time there are consequences.

 

[SweetSue92]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Jo

Links to an image

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Jo

When you know Soros and Schwab back Ukraine, it's hard to be on their side

 

[cnm]

When you know Soros and Schwab back Ukraine, it's hard to be on their side

Score one for Putin.

 

[Mac-7]

No, NATO did not provoke this war

 

[Meathead]

No, NATO did not provoke this war

Not per-say, but it was the potential encroachment of NATO that did. Putin and most Russians believe that only Ukraine is preventing Russia to be a front-line state.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not per-say, but it was the potential encroachment of NATO that did. Putin and most Russians believe that only Ukraine is preventing Russia to be a front-line state.

That does not excuse this invasion.

 

[Meathead]

That does not excuse this invasion.

No one said it did. I was addressing the OP's question.

 

[justoffal]

Not per-say, but it was the potential encroachment of NATO that did. Putin and most Russians believe that only Ukraine is preventing Russia to be a front-line state.

Somebody promised zelansky something that they couldn't deliver. If he was any kind of a real president he would have gone straight up to Moscow and made terms to avoid an invasion. This is not bravery this is stupidity.

 

[Mac-7]

Not per-say, but it was the potential encroachment of NATO that did. Putin and most Russians believe that only Ukraine is preventing Russia to be a front-line state.

If so then the russians are delusional

as I keep pointing out Switzerland is surrounded by NATO and nothing bad ever happened to them

 

[SweetSue92]

Somebody promised zelansky something that they couldn't deliver. If he was any kind of a real president he would have gone straight up to Moscow and made terms to avoid an invasion. This is not bravery this is stupidity.

Putin's terms were "Give me your country".

Zelensky said no. I don't blame him. There it is.

 

[SweetSue92]

If so then the russians are delusional

as I keep pointing out Switzerland is surrounded by NATO and nothing bad ever happened to them

Let's face it: Putin wants to do shady things and doesn't want NATO sniffing up on it. Is NATO perfect--no. But they don't need to be perfect for us to see the truth. Putin is an ex-KGB despot. Helpful not to forget that.

 

[justoffal]

Putin's terms were "Give me your country".

Zelensky said no. I don't blame him. There it is.

I don't know if those what Putin wanted. I think all Putin wanted was a promise that NATO would not try to militarize Ukraine and put yet more land-based rocketry in that geography and they would not make that promise because that's exactly what they intended to do.

So when is he would have been better off to go through the European and Russian courts. Putin doesn't win everything in court in Russia. Sometimes he loses there too.
Zalensky's stupid decision has cost him the destruction of an entire nation and the displacement of his people.
He's an idiot.

Jo

 

[Meathead]

Somebody promised zelansky something that they couldn't deliver. If he was any kind of a real president he would have gone straight up to Moscow and made terms to avoid an invasion. This is not bravery this is stupidity.

I see parallels between Benes and Czechoslovakia in 1939 and the Sudetenland and Hitler's occupation of Bohemia and the situation in Ukraine. The Czechs, army and civilians failed to fight against overwhelming odds.

I see the rationale in Benes's choice yet admire the courage of the Ukrainians (and Poles in 1939).

I live in the Czech Republic btw.

 

[Meathead]

If so then the russians are delusional

as I keep pointing out Switzerland is surrounded by NATO and nothing bad ever happened to them

Sorry, that's goofy.

 

[Muhammed]

No, not really. NATO has been more or less dead for decades. Putin wanted the Ukraine for historical purposes, just as he's been attacking Georgia and helping out in Kazakhstan and the like. He's using NATO as an excuse and it doesn't even really add up anyway.

Putin is simply after hydrocarbon reserves in Ukraine. The known gas and oil reserves in Ukraine are mostly east of Dnieper river. So the Russians are likely going to at the very least take nearly every oblast east of the Dnieper river and overthrow the government in Kiev.

That's also one of the reasons that Obama/Biden gave Putin Crimea in 2014. Lots of offshore hydrocarbon reserves. Plus it gives Putin a sense of nationalistic Russian pride to control the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet since around the late 16th century. It's very strategically located.

Putin owns Biden.

That's why you shouldn't vote for corrupt brain damaged career politicians like Quid Pro Pedo Joe Biden in the first place.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't know if those what Putin wanted. I think all Putin wanted was a promise that NATO would not try to militarize Ukraine and put yet more land-based rocketry in that geography and they would not make that promise because that's exactly what they intended to do.

So when is he would have been better off to go through the European and Russian courts. Putin doesn't win everything in court in Russia. Sometimes he loses there too.
Zalensky's stupid decision has cost him the destruction of an entire nation and the displacement of his people.
He's an idiot.

Jo

You know Putin made clear what he wanted right? In some delusional historical rant about the Russian empire or something.

You don't have to defend him. Frankly I don't know why anyone would.

 

[SweetSue92]

I see parallels between Benes and Czechoslovakia in 1939 and the Sudetenland and Hitler's occupation of Bohemia and the situation in Ukraine. The Czechs, army and civilians failed to fight against overwhelming odds.

I see the rationale in Bene's choice yet admire the courage of the Ukrainians (and Poles in 1939).

I live in the Czech Republic btw.

To put it in a nutshell: Eastern Europe is rather a mess and has been a mess for some time. This is why I can think Putin is a despot and feel terrible for Ukrainians, but also, Europe needs to take care of their own mess. Americans should not go over there and "solve" a darn thing.