Ya know? How about an honest discussion.

[wvpeach]

Krauthammer predicted this on Sunday.



no why don't you tell us why we American citizens are obligated to work and pay for the health care of 1/2 of Mexico! How moral is that?

Would that be Charles Krauthammer that immoral man who spouts off on Fox news regularly? Surely you wouldn't believe a word that man says? Immorality and total lack of empathy for any humanity reeks from the man. He is so immoral it shows on his physical demeanor and literally makes him one of the ugliest men I have ever seen.


As to your question willow tree why do tax payers end up footing the bill for the emergency medical treatment of illegals. I told you that in my last post . Very clearly I believe. Did you not read it willowtree?
We pay for emergency medical care for illegals because logically we can't ignore them possibly getting some illness that could spread and kill millions of us.

And we pay because the government refuses to shut the boarder with Mexico because business wants the illegals here to drive down wages.

Pretty simple really.

And morality dictates that if we allow these people to be here we don't stand idly by and let them die in emergencies.

 

[kwc57]

Let's make sure I have this straight. You claim to be non-partisan, and want an honest discussion, then link to us to a Associated Press article? AP, who is sucking Obama's dick since Day One? All in one post?

Excuse me while I seek medical attention for my splitting sides!



http://eipnetworks.com/clear.mp3

What would you prefer, WND?

If I wished to prove my claim to be non-partisan and my stated desire for an honest discussion, I wouldn't link to anything partisan.

Right?

Especially not AP, WND (whatever that is) or any of the MSM.

You don't know what World Net Daily is? Really? Did you just fall off the turnip truck and stumble onto the interwebs message boards yesterday or something?

 

[MaggieMae]

By the way Factcheck.org or whatever the **** it's called doesn't tell the WHOLE truth. The bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either. The bill does provide cuts in Medicare,( 500 billion in the next ten years) which will effect senior citizens. Oh but factcheck doesn't mention that huh? How convenient.

It's incredible how people like you continue to believe those chain e-mails. THE HOUSE VERSION OF THE BILL SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT ILLEGAL (UNDOCUMENTED) PEOPLE WILL NOT BE COVERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Section 246 on page 143)

There will be NO cuts to benefits under the base Medicare program. There would be spending cuts, particularly in the Medicare Advantage program (added benefits) which private insurers underwrite and for which they receive taxpayer money for subsidizing the basic Medicare coverage.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If I wished to prove my claim to be non-partisan and my stated desire for an honest discussion, I wouldn't link to anything partisan.

Right?

Especially not AP, WND (whatever that is) or any of the MSM.

How about not being a complete douchebag for 35 seconds and actually disproving the claims in said-source, instead of dismissing it out of hand as though that's a credible way to have an adult discussion.

How about not being the complete moron, claiming to be non-partisan and wanting an honest discussion, then linking us to an article from the corrupt and dishonest and partisan AP!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

What would you prefer, WND?

If I wished to prove my claim to be non-partisan and my stated desire for an honest discussion, I wouldn't link to anything partisan.

Right?

Especially not AP, WND (whatever that is) or any of the MSM.

You don't know what World Net Daily is? Really? Did you just fall off the turnip truck and stumble onto the interwebs message boards yesterday or something?

I simply have no information on WND, other than since you referenced it, it must be partisan.

See?

And I've been on the innertubes since even before Al Gore invented it!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

How about not being the complete moron, claiming to be non-partisan and wanting an honest discussion, then linking us to an article from the corrupt and dishonest and partisan AP!

^ that logic is what I mean by douchebag. My reading yahoo! news points to my partisanship. Right. And pimples are caused by premature ejaculation. My friend doris has a house on the dark side of the moon, and my grandma won a beat contest against Tommy Lee. Cool ---- story ---- bro.

"Yahoo news" is simply a regurgitator of the MSM. The actual article the link goes to is from the AP.

Next!

 

[MaggieMae]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Yeah, we should just believe AP, NBC, SeeBS, and all the media outlets. They have no dog in this fight and are unbiased!

Right?

I just wish everyone would quite bitching about the media and look for panel debates by respected and knowledgeable people within the medical arena on C-Span who know what the **** they're talking about, and will give YOU the information in LAY TERMS so that you will *get* it in a completely unbiased fashion. In the meantime, a reminder that NOTHING HAS YET BEEN PASSED, NOR EVEN LEGALLY DEBATED BY CONGRESS.

 

[MaggieMae]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Yeah, we should just believe AP, NBC, SeeBS, and all the media outlets. They have no dog in this fight and are unbiased!

Right?

Something tells me that if one of them started promoting your music and videos, you'd have a sudden change of heart.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

That is an unrealistic comparison willow tree.

First study after study has been done showing that universal health care if implemented throughout the country will actually drive health care costs down.

Secondly if individual states try to go it alone they are at distinct disadvantages . The first thing the insurance companies do is raise rates and say tough luck if you don't like it we will just pull out of your state.

For instance Kentucky tried several years ago to put caps on medical and auto insurance rates. Insurance companies just pulled out of the state. Took their ball and went home and said we won't play unless you let us charge what we want.

States like Massachusetts that try to go it alone are seeing the insurance companies raise rates sky high because they are being told they cannot exclude people for pre existing conditions. With insurance rates that high, hospitals and doctors naturally want their share of the pie so rates go up across the board including for the state run programs.

Common sense says prices cannot be controlled unless all states are in and coverage is universal across the nation.

Naturally the insurance companies don't like that because that means they will have to compete for a share of the pie. It means they won't make multi billions a year , they may just make a few billion.

I disagree with you're post above. It contradicts my personal experience in the MA universal health system.

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

We are only 2 billion in debt right now (we had a surplus instead as little as 3 years ago). .

But at least our sales tax got raised 25%, the registry and car related fees have all gone up, they raised our tolls, they have put a tax on our health insurance payments, if you CHOOSE not to get coverage you get to pay an annual uninsured tax, and they are proposing more fee's to help pay for our "universal" health care.

BTW we also kicked 30,000 LEGAL immigrants off the govt funded plan since we dont have enough money and almost 3% of the commonwealth are still uninsured.

Oh and one more thing, my cost of insurance has gone up from 38/week to 50/week

I prefer to fight from behind the lines

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Yeah, we should just believe AP, NBC, SeeBS, and all the media outlets. They have no dog in this fight and are unbiased!

Right?

I just wish everyone would quite bitching about the media and look for panel debates by respected and knowledgeable people within the medical arena on C-Span who know what the **** they're talking about, and will give YOU the information in LAY TERMS so that you will *get* it in a completely unbiased fashion. In the meantime, a reminder that NOTHING HAS YET BEEN PASSED, NOR EVEN LEGALLY DEBATED BY CONGRESS.

And yet? They tried to BUMUSH this through before anyone had a chance to READ it and analyze it!

 

[MaggieMae]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

None of the states which have implemented their own health care initiatives ever promised it wouldn't cost anything at the startup, nor that it would ever be a profitable exercise. THINK, for a change, would ya?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Yeah, we should just believe AP, NBC, SeeBS, and all the media outlets. They have no dog in this fight and are unbiased!

Right?

Something tells me that if one of them started promoting your music and videos, you'd have a sudden change of heart.

You hacks are killing me with your strawmen!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

None of the states which have implemented their own health care initiatives ever promised it wouldn't cost anything at the startup, nor that it would ever be a profitable exercise. THINK, for a change, would ya?

But the quality of care and the availabilty of care have both decreased in my state over the last 2 years while the cost of care has risen over the same time frame.

That is what OUR universal health care has done, so far, along with leaving people uninsured and even removing people from the medicare rolls (30,000 LEGAL immigrants sounds like rationing. )

Maybe the knucleheads in congress are smarter than the history of all their other proposed social programs prove. If this bill does pass I can only pray that they are.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Next!

Um,

You haven't made a point yet.

You first have to actually address the material in the story.

I do not. I address the irony of an idiot claiming to be non-partisan and wanting a honest discussion, linking us to the dishonest, corrupt and partisan AP as a backup!

Then watch all the partisan hack idiots ignore post #34!

And by the way, it's either outright ignorance or dishonesty from you, claiming in the OP that "the opposition party" has anything to do with this -- the Dems can pass anything they want without a single opposition vote or any opposition support whatsoever.

Truly non-partisan folks know that, and don't try to blame-shift.

 

[wvpeach]

Not true . Obviously you don't watch much c-span. You should start toomuchtime since you have so much time on your hands c-span is a good place to spend it.

Study after study has been done for decades about the economic benefits to the entire country if we adopt universal healthcare. Major organizations , universities and the AMA , including the states, all know universal health care will drive down costs and save money after being implemented for the first couple of years. .................

To be clear, the studies that show universal coverage would be cheaper are in the hundreds and have been done by non partisans over the last decade.

And, had you been watching c-span you would have seen dozens of hearing on health care up on capital hill. Insurers, medical groups, doctors, economists on committee after committee up on capital hill testifying about the best way to drive down health care costs . Which by the way, always starts with getting everybody covered so the insured aren't having to pick up the bill for the uninsured.

To be clear had you watched c-span you would have seen literally thousands of hours of studies on this health care issue.

So it's simply a right wing lie & talking point to say that this is all being rushed through. That is a lie. This issue has been worked on for a decade and since President Obama took office he has brought all the players to capital hill and held hundreds of hours of meetings about how to best get this done.

Problem being the mainstream media and right wingers as well as some on the left realize that the average American has the attention span of a gnat and if it's not American Idol , some goofy reality TV show , Nascar or sports Americans aren't watching.

That lets the pundits on both sides especially the right side, get away with telling outright lies. Because they know the American people most likely haven't been paying attention.

To stop this politicians and citizens need to be able to sue for these lies being told.
Back in the day politicians did sue if a newspaper lied about them and often caused the newspapers to have to retract the lies and kept them in check in the future.

Perhaps we need to return to that policy and situate laws so that if a pundit is lying they can easily be taken to court and pay out big damages. Because we certainly have a whole lot of lying going on on national TV. Especially Fox news.

another factor that prevents discussion if the 'dumbing' of americans.....people wont or dont read or research anything....so they have to go by some trumped up party line...hiding behind partisan shit allows people to "think" they know what they are talking about when they only know what the are 'parroting' this concept applies to both parties and all people regardless of political party... we have become to lazy to govern ourselves...too lazy to read...we must be spoon feed facts by punits.

I don't think the fault lies with the American people but with the leadership of the Democratic Party. When our cheerleader-in-chief announced he wanted House and Senate bills out of committee before the summer recess and a bill signed into law before the 2010 campaign season began because the issue was too urgent to waste time in careful study, honest disclosure of costs or open debate, he set the stage for the circus that has followed. The Democratic push has been based entirely on ideological and political considerations and not at all on careful assessments of costs and benefits and for this reason they deserve all the anger and ridicule they have received. This anger and ridicule is an honest expression of frustration about the way the Democrats have tried to ram this thing through before anyone really knows what it will cost or how it will impact our national or state economies and the Democratic response to this frustration has been almost entirely dishonest.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

There are certain markers and keywords that can easily identify partisans.