Zone1 Would studying from a Reform Rabbi genuinely hurt ones understanding of Judaism?

[Cougarbear]

what question exactly do you think you are answering?

Well, if you don't know, why are you in this thread?

 

[rosends]

Well, if you don't know, why are you in this thread?

ok, since we are playing 20 questions: did you answer with a statement to me that did not refer to something I had written or written about?

 

[Cougarbear]

ok, since we are playing 20 questions: did you answer with a statement to me that did not refer to something I had written or written about?

ok, since we are playing 20 questions: did you answer with a statement to me that did not refer to something I had written or written about?

Sort of. It's just part of the entire thread and sometimes you respond to someone else and I chime in just like you do. It's all part of the opportunity to debate.

 

[rosends]

Sort of. It's just part of the entire thread and sometimes you respond to someone else and I chime in just like you do. It's all part of the opportunity to debate.

So what are you answering?

 

[Cougarbear]

So what are you answering?

I don't know. What am I answering? What would you like me to answer?

 

[irosie91]

My study has its presentational roots from Orthodox Rabbis. I am curious if there is any value in hearing from any Rabbis from the Reform movement, which is the largest growing sect of Judaism in North America apparently? Rabbi Breitowitz for my studying, outside of books, has been a treasure as he is from America (once had a promising career in law but I believe he now resides in Israel) and he is very well read on the Torah and Judaism theology. So well educated in fact, that he takes rapid fire questions from students in what I presume is his Yeshiva while being so educated that he will often throw in varying opinions, "some (insert Jewish community or person) believe _______", on such and such a subject. His deliver is also very relaxed and humble. That said, from the OP subject, are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox? Even any prominent Conservatives worthwhile.learning from or would they just ruin my learning? Thank you for your time.

there is a proverb-----(approx) azeh hu chacham? Halomed mi kol adam. Who is wise, he who
learns from all -----uhm ADAM could be translated as mankind or the world (and that's about
it in hebrew for me)

 

[Cassandro]

are there any Reform Rabbi one could honestly learn from, or would it be a poor representation to be exposed to.and it's best to learn from the Orthodox?

I would start with Jesus of Nazareth. He fulfilled messianic prophesy and offered a way forward for Judaism to become a worldwide religion. Instead, his teachings were rejected by the orthodox priesthood, and a separate religion was invented by his followers. I place little confidence in the subsequent machinations of both his proponents and his detractors.

 

[irosie91]

I would start with Jesus of Nazareth. He fulfilled messianic prophesy and offered a way forward for Judaism to become a worldwide religion. Instead, his teachings were rejected by the orthodox priesthood, and a separate religion was invented by his followers. I place little confidence in the subsequent machinations of both his proponents and his detractors.

from whence do you get "world wide" from Jesus? ----unless you actually believe that Jesus
REALLY appeared in the hypnagogic hallucinations of PAUL--- uhm----who are you calling
"the priesthood"? The priests at that time were Sadduceans ----appointed by Rome.
What you are calling the "orthodox priesthood" ----are the popularly accepted scholars---
more accurately called "the rabbis" (in english)------the roman appointed "priests" were
rejected. A point of interest----CAIAPHAS is a despised character in JEWISH HISTORY

 

[Cassandro]

from whence do you get "world wide" from Jesus? ----unless you actually believe that Jesus
REALLY appeared in the hypnagogic hallucinations of PAUL--- uhm----who are you calling
"the priesthood"? The priests at that time were Sadduceans ----appointed by Rome.
What you are calling the "orthodox priesthood" ----are the popularly accepted scholars---
more accurately called "the rabbis" (in english)------the roman appointed "priests" were
rejected. A point of interest----CAIAPHAS is a despised character in JEWISH HISTORY

Word games are no substitute for serious conversation.

 

[irosie91]

Word games are no substitute for serious conversation.

where do you see a "word game" ? you are describing yourself. I did not
refer to the SADDUCEAN PRIESTS as the "ORTHODOX" -----you did. -----
a clue------the SADDUCEANS are no longer extant-----the ORTHODOX were
and are THE PHARISEES-----ask Jesus. You could also ask Constantine--the
originator of the LAWS THAT CREATED THE INQUISITION aka "holy roman
empire" (second reich)

 

[shockedcanadian]

I would start with Jesus of Nazareth. He fulfilled messianic prophesy and offered a way forward for Judaism to become a worldwide religion. Instead, his teachings were rejected by the orthodox priesthood, and a separate religion was invented by his followers. I place little confidence in the subsequent machinations of both his proponents and his detractors.

You would start with a man who himself started with the Torah? I've thought about the origins of Judoeo-Christianity (as two separate faiths of course) and my assessment is that if Christians began with the Torah instesd of the New Testament.and if they studied the 613 mitvot in the beginning of their journey, (and if the Orthodox conversion process weren't so strict), the number of people choosing to loyally following Judaism rather than Christianity would be in the tens of millions. Knowledge is power and each of us are guided by G-d accordingly so perhaps it is as it should be.

 

[irosie91]

You would start with a man who himself started with the Torah? I've thought about the origins if Judoeo-Christianity (as two separate faiths of coirse) and my assessment is that if Christians began with the Torah instesd of the New Testament.and if they studied the 613 mitvot in the beginning of their journey, (and if the Orthodox conversion process weren't so strict), the number of people choosing to loyally following Judaism rather than Christianity would be in the tens of millions. Knowledge is power and each of us are guided by G-d accordingly so perhaps it is as it should be.

that's what Paul had in mind

 

[Cassandro]

You would start with a man who himself started with the Torah? I've thought about the origins of Judoeo-Christianity (as two separate faiths of course) and my assessment is that if Christians began with the Torah instesd of the New Testament.and if they studied the 613 mitvot in the beginning of their journey, (and if the Orthodox conversion process weren't so strict), the number of people choosing to loyally following Judaism rather than Christianity would be in the tens of millions. Knowledge is power and each of us are guided by G-d accordingly so perhaps it is as it should be.

I believe that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi whose purpose was to reform Judaism into a universal faith. After his teachings were rejected by Jewish authorities, his followers created a new sect of Judaism that honored those teachings. Because they were inclusive of all people, they found greater acceptance by Gentiles, who eventually turned them into a separate worldwide religion.

If Jesus' teachings been incorporated into Judaism, it would have expanded into the world's largest religion. Instead, it remained a minor religion mired in ancient laws and traditions that have become increasingly irrelevant to modern society. (Does G-d really care if you eat a cheeseburger?)

 

[rosends]

I believe that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi whose purpose was to reform Judaism into a universal faith. After his teachings were rejected by Jewish authorities, his followers created a new sect of Judaism that honored those teachings. Because they were inclusive of all people, they found greater acceptance by Gentiles, who eventually turned them into a separate worldwide religion.

This could very well be. If one preaches major reforms that get rid of underlying beliefs, one will encounter resistance.

If Jesus' teachings been incorporated into Judaism, it would have expanded into the world's largest religion.

And it would have stopped being Judaism.

Instead, it remained a minor religion mired in ancient laws and traditions that have become increasingly irrelevant to modern society.

Says who? I live it every day and what you claim is wrong. Tell me more about what is relevant or not in my modern society.

(Does G-d really care if you eat a cheeseburger?)

Yes. If you need to think of God as human with wants, needs and desires, then yes.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I believe that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi whose purpose was to reform Judaism into a universal faith. After his teachings were rejected by Jewish authorities, his followers created a new sect of Judaism that honored those teachings. Because they were inclusive of all people, they found greater acceptance by Gentiles, who eventually turned them into a separate worldwide religion.

If Jesus' teachings been incorporated into Judaism, it would have expanded into the world's largest religion. Instead, it remained a minor religion mired in ancient laws and traditions that have become increasingly irrelevant to modern society. (Does G-d really care if you eat a cheeseburger?)

Well, it sounds as if you would support more the "Reform" sect of Judaism. It is fastest growing in the U.S.

As it were, Jesus was not in a position to alter a religion. If he were the mashiach all the pre-requestites would have been achieved, including peace among men.

 

[irosie91]

I believe that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi whose purpose was to reform Judaism into a universal faith. After his teachings were rejected by Jewish authorities, his followers created a new sect of Judaism that honored those teachings. Because they were inclusive of all people, they found greater acceptance by Gentiles, who eventually turned them into a separate worldwide religion.

If Jesus' teachings been incorporated into Judaism, it would have expanded into the world's largest religion. Instead, it remained a minor religion mired in ancient laws and traditions that have become increasingly irrelevant to modern society. (Does G-d really care if you eat a cheeseburger?)

^^^^ there is absolutely nothing,, including in the New Testament, to support your contention.
EXCEPT one anecdote----Jesus did not wash his hands. which IMHO is, clearly, a Roman historic
revision. Paul was a very typical Hellenist ----typical and not at all unique

 

[Cassandro]

Well, it sounds as if you would support more the "Reform" sect of Judaism. It is fastest growing in the U.S.

As it were, Jesus was not in a position to alter a religion. If he were the mashiach all the pre-requestites would have been achieved, including peace among men.

I think that Jesus and Martin Luther were in similar positions. Both were "reformers" who were opposed at the time by the religious establishment, and both led to the creation of "new" religions. It is unfortunate that, instead of acknowledging their insights, they were branded as heretics and vilified.

 

[irosie91]

I think that Jesus and Martin Luther were in similar positions. Both were "reformers" who were opposed at the time by the religious establishment, and both led to the creation of "new" religions. It is unfortunate that, instead of acknowledging their insights, they were branded as heretics and vilified.

who branded Jesus an heretic?

 

[shockedcanadian]

who branded Jesus an heretic?

His followers, Paul and others basically turned him into one in some respect. It's interesting because it appears this is what he wanted but who knows? It's an interesting debate.

This has happened in Judaism over the years, especially their fight against the hellenistic views and of course The Maccabean Revolt

 

[BreezeWood]

As it were, Jesus was not in a position to alter a religion.

that is exactly the opposite of recorded history ... as evolved.

the 1st century events are a reformation of judaism, false commandments claimed by moses hereditary idolatry of abraham a religion of apartheid false heavenly personifications et al as witnessed by jesus a religious itinerant free in standing - certainly not jewish bound nor a messiah.

to corroborate the concluding scene of those events is in itself a tragedy as the event itself - for what more jesus had to contribute and was prevented from doing so by their antagonist.