Woulc JFK Still be a Democrat Today?

[elektra]

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.


Do you REALLY 'get that'? The high tax rate Kennedy inherited was designed to pay for the Great Depression and WWII. Kennedy faced a budget SURPLUS. Lowering the tax rate (91 percent on marginal income greater than $400,000 cut to 70 percent) made sense THEN. But it was not based on the voodoo economic dogma Reagan created.

NEWS FLASH...Reaganomics was the BIGGEST fiscal failure in American history...trickle down was REALLY trickle UP. Need proof?


Democrats today promote reasonable tax rates based on revenue requirements, not the right's "insidious doctrine"

You can save the flashy graphs and whatnot, I'm not arguing that Kennedy was a Reagan Republican (lol), or would be a Republican if he was alive in 2013. Kennedy would not relate very well to today's GOP.

However, I don't think he would be a Democrat either.

I think it's pretty undeniable that at this point both the Dems and Republicans have both become hyperpartisian, corrupt, and much more obsessed about ideology vs. rationality. As a free thinker who began to take steps to shift some of the power from the establishment back to the people, Kennedy today would be an independent.

JFKs politics would have closely followed his brother Teds

So would Roberts

Ted supported raising taxes, JFK wanted to lower taxes. Ted voted not to support South Vietnam, JFK did everything possible to support Vietnam against Communism.

 

[rightwinger]

You can save the flashy graphs and whatnot, I'm not arguing that Kennedy was a Reagan Republican (lol), or would be a Republican if he was alive in 2013. Kennedy would not relate very well to today's GOP.

However, I don't think he would be a Democrat either.

I think it's pretty undeniable that at this point both the Dems and Republicans have both become hyperpartisian, corrupt, and much more obsessed about ideology vs. rationality. As a free thinker who began to take steps to shift some of the power from the establishment back to the people, Kennedy today would be an independent.

JFKs politics would have closely followed his brother Teds

So would Roberts

Ted supported raising taxes, JFK wanted to lower taxes. Ted voted not to support South Vietnam, JFK did everything possible to support Vietnam against Communism.

Different eras/different facts

JFK supported dropping taxes that had been raised to pay for WWII
Ted supported raising tax rates that had been slashed by Reagan

Ted voted against Vietnam after it became obvious it was a lost cause
JFK supported military involvement in Vietnam before it got out of hand

Both JFK and RFK were more liberal than Teddy in the 1960s, they would have remained so

 

[JakeStarkey]

Woulc JFK Still be a Democrat Today?

Of course he would.

 

[elektra]

JFKs politics would have closely followed his brother Teds

So would Roberts

Ted supported raising taxes, JFK wanted to lower taxes. Ted voted not to support South Vietnam, JFK did everything possible to support Vietnam against Communism.

Different eras/different facts

JFK supported dropping taxes that had been raised to pay for WWII
Ted supported raising tax rates that had been slashed by Reagan

Ted voted against Vietnam after it became obvious it was a lost cause
JFK supported military involvement in Vietnam before it got out of hand

Both JFK and RFK were more liberal than Teddy in the 1960s, they would have remained so

Sure, and I kind of think its dumb to speculate how history could be different if different events happened.

Either way, regarding Taxes, its not Liberal to propose taxing less as well as spending less so I am not sure how you can say JFK was more Liberal than his younger brother.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not what you said.

This is what you said,

You are the one claiming JFK would be a Republican today

Where did I ever say that?

Would todays Republicans settle for a 56% tax rate on $40K?

Don't care. I'm not a republican

I think the Teatards would be up in arms....don't you?

again don't care.

You "don't care" is an admission that "facts don't matter."

Fail for you, bud.

 

[Bfgrn]

Ted supported raising taxes, JFK wanted to lower taxes. Ted voted not to support South Vietnam, JFK did everything possible to support Vietnam against Communism.

Different eras/different facts

JFK supported dropping taxes that had been raised to pay for WWII
Ted supported raising tax rates that had been slashed by Reagan

Ted voted against Vietnam after it became obvious it was a lost cause
JFK supported military involvement in Vietnam before it got out of hand

Both JFK and RFK were more liberal than Teddy in the 1960s, they would have remained so

Sure, and I kind of think its dumb to speculate how history could be different if different events happened.

Either way, regarding Taxes, its not Liberal to propose taxing less as well as spending less so I am not sure how you can say JFK was more Liberal than his younger brother.

JFK was a liberal. If you hated Teddy's politics, you would have hated Jack and Bobby's too. Ted dedicated his public life to carrying out his two brother's unfinished agenda.

The Great Society was based on our slain President's New Frontier. The following were President Kennedy's agenda and proposals:

Civil Rights Bill
Medicare
War on Poverty

And JFK did not believe in trickle down economics.

JFK, the demand-side tax cutter

"The Revenue Act of 1964 was aimed at the demand, rather than the supply, side of the economy," said Arthur Okun, one of Kennedy's economic advisers.

This distinction, taught in Economics 101, seldom makes it into the Washington sound-bite wars. A demand-side cut rests on the Keynesian theory that public consumption spurs economic activity. Government puts money in people's hands, as a temporary measure, so that they'll spend it. A supply-side cut sees business investment as the key to growth. Government gives money to businesses and wealthy individuals to invest, ultimately benefiting all Americans. Back in the early 1960s, tax cutting was as contentious as it is today, but it was liberal demand-siders who were calling for the cuts and generating the controversy.

When Kennedy ran for president in 1960 amid a sluggish economy, he vowed to "get the country moving again." After his election, his advisers, led by chief economist Walter Heller, urged a classically Keynesian solution: running a deficit to stimulate growth. (The $10 billion deficit Heller recommended, bold at the time, seems laughably small by today's standards.) In Keynesian theory, a tax cut aimed at consumers would have a "multiplier" effect, since each dollar that a taxpayer spent would go to another taxpayer, who would in effect spend it again—meaning the deficit would be short-lived.

At first Kennedy balked at Heller's Keynesianism. He even proposed a balanced budget in his first State of the Union address. But Heller and his team won over the president. By mid-1962 Kennedy had seen the Keynesian light, and in January 1963 he declared that "the enactment this year of tax reduction and tax reform overshadows all other domestic issues in this Congress."

The plan Kennedy's team drafted had many elements, including the closing of loopholes (the "tax reform" Kennedy spoke of).Ultimately, in the form that Lyndon Johnson signed into law, it reduced tax withholding rates, initiated a new standard deduction, and boosted the top deduction for child care expenses, among other provisions. It did lower the top tax bracket significantly, although from a vastly higher starting point than anything we've seen in recent years: 91 percent on marginal income greater than $400,000. And he cut it only to 70 percent, hardly the mark of a future Club for Growth member.

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The real death blow to your argument and the ultimate irony is that Republicans OPPOSED Kennedy's tax cuts.

The Golden Age of Republican Deficit Hawks

Several readers wrote in, asking whether Republicans were ever really pro-tax, or if they merely put up with higher taxes in the name of fiscal discipline.

The answer is that once upon a time, Republicans did indeed advocate leaving taxes alone, opposing tax cuts.

In the 1950s and 1960s, federal deficits were relatively small compared to the size of the economy, but even during those flush years, Republican leadership was reluctant to advocate tax cuts. In 1953, for example, Dwight Eisenhower said the country “cannot afford to reduce taxes, reduce income, until we have in sight a program of expenditures that shows that the factors of income and of outgo will be balanced.”

And when his successor, John F. Kennedy, proposed sharp tax cuts in 1963, the more conservative Republicans in Congress initially opposed them because the cuts would expand the deficit.

The legislation eventually passed (after Kennedy’s assassination), but over the objections of about a third of the Republicans voting. Here’s the House vote, and here’s the Senate vote.


The right’s misplaced love of JFK tax cuts

When Kennedy cut taxes, he lowered the top marginal tax from 91% to 65%. Many congressional Republicans opposed his plan at the time, citing concerns that the treasury couldn’t afford such a tax break — the Republican Party used to be quite serious about fiscal responsibility, but it’s been a half-century — but Kennedy proceeded anyway because the higher rates, instituted during World War II, were no longer necessary.

Also at the time, the country had very little debt — Eisenhower, thankfully, kept taxes high throughout the 1950s — almost no deficit. Fiscal conditions, obviously, are far different now.

Keep in mind, unlike contemporary GOP policy, Kennedy’s plan distributed “peace dividends” broadly across the wage spectrum. As the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation explained at the time, the bottom 85% of the population received 59% of the benefits of JFK’s tax cut. The top 2.4% received 17.4% of the tax cut, and the top 0.4% received just 6% of it.

Those on the right who see themselves as descendents of the Kennedy policy are either deeply confused or they assume you won’t bother to learn the truth

 

[JimBowie1958]

Lol, yeah cutting taxes, vigorously opposing communism and our nations enemies, working hard to keep jobs in the US, and supporting our allies in S Vietnam and the Phillipines are all just standard libtard ideology.....NOT lol.

JFK was a conservative by todays spectrum as the quotes I gave show, and the libtards just hate admitting it!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jim Bowie proves that neo-cons could be liberal as well. Next Jim Bowie will be telling us the Dem Medicare and Medicaid and other programs of the other were really reactionary Republican programs.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim Bowie proves that neo-cons could be liberal as well.

No one gives a shit about your lies Jake the Fake.

Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else, why doncha?

 

[bendog]

Jim Bowie proves that neo-cons could be liberal as well.

No one gives a shit about your lies Jake the Fake.

Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else, why doncha?

Please. Postulating JFK as a conservative is at best self-deluding and most likely just a knowing lie. GTFO

 

[Vandalshandle]

I am not sure that they allow republicans in Massachusetts....

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some quotes from JFK (in bold) that are not in keeping with the Democratic party any more, followed by a dimbocrap response, written by me on their behalf.

Source:
John Fitzgerald Kennedy quotes

“The rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God”

2013 Dim: There is no God, if there was He is a bigot, and there are no natural rights, only the rights the government allows. This also violates the first amendment protection from religion.


“All of us do not have equal talent, but all of us should have an equal opportunity to develop our talents.”

Equal results are even more important, and so we support use of quotas to neutralize talent and training to even the playing field among all people...unless you are a privileged white heterosexual male, of course.


“Children are the world's most valuable resource and its best hope for the future”

The planet is over-populated and we must reduce the number of children it has and will have.


“Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer, but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future.”

The President, if a Democrat, is always right, and if he is a Republican, always wrong.


“Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.”

Ask for your country to take care of you, and never stop asking; it is good politics.


“Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.”

How sexist and able-ist can you get?


“Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality”

There is no Hell, and if there were, it would be full of Republicans anyway so what's the point?


“The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.”

Ignorance makes for good reliable, pliable, buyable voters.


“Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

Thought is not important; coming to the politically correct conclusion is what is important.

“If we are strong, our strength will speak for itself. If we are weak, words will be of no help.”

Strength is so last century, and macho is so threatening, violent and offensive to any citizen of the planet.


“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily lives, and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom”

Minutemen? RIGHTWING EXTREMIST ALERT!


“This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor”

More violation of the First Amendment, and material wealth is all that there is that is worth pursuing. Even our RINO allies agree with that.


“True happiness is the full use of your powers along lines of excellence in a life affording scope.”

What a nerd.


Today JFK would walk out of the Democratic party and likely disown the rest of his family.

Three reasons why JFK would be a Democrat today: MLK, RFK and JFK. There are many more, but his murder and the murder of Dr. King and Sen. Kennedy by gun fire, and the GOP's continued support for the terrorist organization NRA would be sufficient for him to eschew the party of NO.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim Bowie proves that neo-cons could be liberal as well.

No one gives a shit about your lies Jake the Fake.

Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else, why doncha?

Please. Postulating JFK as a conservative is at best self-deluding and most likely just a knowing lie. GTFO

Says you, without one quote, one reason or even the slimmest argument.

You libtards just do not know how to think critically any more.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Some quotes from JFK (in bold) that are not in keeping with the Democratic party any more, followed by a dimbocrap response, written by me on their behalf.

Source:
John Fitzgerald Kennedy quotes

“The rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God”

2013 Dim: There is no God, if there was He is a bigot, and there are no natural rights, only the rights the government allows. This also violates the first amendment protection from religion.


“All of us do not have equal talent, but all of us should have an equal opportunity to develop our talents.”

Equal results are even more important, and so we support use of quotas to neutralize talent and training to even the playing field among all people...unless you are a privileged white heterosexual male, of course.


“Children are the world's most valuable resource and its best hope for the future”

The planet is over-populated and we must reduce the number of children it has and will have.


“Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer, but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future.”

The President, if a Democrat, is always right, and if he is a Republican, always wrong.


“Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.”

Ask for your country to take care of you, and never stop asking; it is good politics.


“Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.”

How sexist and able-ist can you get?


“Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality”

There is no Hell, and if there were, it would be full of Republicans anyway so what's the point?


“The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.”

Ignorance makes for good reliable, pliable, buyable voters.


“Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

Thought is not important; coming to the politically correct conclusion is what is important.

“If we are strong, our strength will speak for itself. If we are weak, words will be of no help.”

Strength is so last century, and macho is so threatening, violent and offensive to any citizen of the planet.


“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily lives, and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom”

Minutemen? RIGHTWING EXTREMIST ALERT!


“This country cannot afford to be materially rich and spiritually poor”

More violation of the First Amendment, and material wealth is all that there is that is worth pursuing. Even our RINO allies agree with that.


“True happiness is the full use of your powers along lines of excellence in a life affording scope.”

What a nerd.


Today JFK would walk out of the Democratic party and likely disown the rest of his family.

Three reasons why JFK would be a Democrat today: MLK, RFK and JFK. There are many more, but his murder and the murder of Dr. King and Sen. Kennedy by gun fire, and the GOP's continued support for the terrorist organization NRA would be sufficient for him to eschew the party of NO.

MLK was a Republican, genius.

And your line of argument only makes sense if the GOP killed any of these people which it did not.