Woman charged with raping boy, 14

[Andrew2382]

You need to clue it up. I'm really clear on where my daughter is, sexually. She's 15, and I know PRECISELY how far she's gone, physically. I realize I'm fighting a losing battle against her hormones and horniness.

How do you know how far she's gone?

Having said that, the fact of the matter is that a teacher or other adults have a responsibility in our interactions with young people, particularly teenagers, not to abuse our positions of power and trust. No matter how badly you might have wanted to bang your 10th grade teacher, IT IS PART OF HER JOB TO NEVER CROSS THAT LINE. The idea that an adult crossing that line is acceptable simply because the child wants to is complete and utter bullshit.

No one is arguing that...and yes the adult should never cross that line...it's wrong. Yet that doesn't dismiss the fact that if the adult ever does cross that line the teenager isn't going to take it.

Just like, even though I know that my daughter will be at some point sexually active, it is part of my job to do what I can to postpone that until she's as emotionally mature as possible. It's also my job to prepare her for that inevitability in such a way that she is able to manage her sexual activities responsibly, and so she doesn't damage herself.

My daughter will be driving soon. Since that's the case, should I just put a 5th of Jack and the car keys in her hand today so she can get started?

You and others are engaged in sexually biased diminishing of the victimization of young men. It's crap.

the more you try to postpone it the more she is going to want to do it. Educate her on it so she can make an informed decision and be ready for whatever comes at her.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Did I ever say I thought it didn't happen? No. Does the fact that teenagers do stupid things make it okay for allegedly responsible adults to turn a blind eye to it? No.

I think everyone agrees that just because a teen is pursuing it does not mean it's ok for an adult to give in to it. Clearly, the adult is the responsible party in every case and has the duty to obey the law. (notice "statutory rape" is a malem prohibitum offense not a malem in se. Although feel free to argue otherwise.)

Do I find your attitude nauseating and disgusting? Yes.

Thanks for judging. Say where did you get your black robe?

Believe it or not, I can live in the real world where bad things happen and have the morals and intelligence to stand up and say, "That's still a bad thing."

Doesn't everyone? Perhaps this is a more nuanced discussion than you are prepared for. Some things need more thought than standing and shrieking, "THAT'S BAD!!!!" There's a certain DUH factor there don't you think?

Maybe you should try it once in a while.

More baseless judging. You have factual information that Andrew doesn't live in the real world and has no morals or intelligence? He's never said an immoral thing was bad? Really?

Being a decent human being is actually rather refreshing.

Repeating what someone told you about decent human beings?

 

[catzmeow]

How do you know how far she's gone?

Because she's told me. That's the kind of relationship we have. It wasn't easy to hear that a boy had gotten to 2nd base with her, but at least I know where things stand. We've been talking about sex, in every aspect of it, since she was in 5th or 6th grade. I remember having to explain to her what a blowjob was when she was in 6th grade. She heard the term and wanted to know what it was. I told her. I figure that my parents hid stuff like that from me, and it never helped, so I'm going to be as open with her about sex, and the incumbent risks and responsibilities, as I can.

She's asked me all kinds of questions, from how she handles a guy who wants to go too far, to masturbation. I think that's how it should be, and yeah, that's my job.

No one is arguing that...and yes the adult should never cross that line...it's wrong. Yet that doesn't dismiss the fact that if the adult ever does cross that line the teenager isn't going to take it.

This is why adults who do cross the line are held responsible with adult sanctions. And, while a teenager might take it, it does not necessarily mean that doing so will have a positive emotional outcome for that teen. I think that what bothers me on this thread is the assumption that boys aren't going to be potentially damaged by statutory rape or sex with an adult in the same way that we'd assume girls would be. In my experience, boys are just as emotionally sensitive at that age as girls are. The problem is: They're told that they shouldn't be, and that it would be okay for an adult to engage in sexual activity with them. In fact, it would be applauded by some outsiders. Which makes it even more complex for a teenaged boy to deal with the related emotions such an interaction can cause.

the more you try to postpone it the more she is going to want to do it. Educate her on it so she can make an informed decision and be ready for whatever comes at her.

I think you're mistaken as to my approach. I've clearly told her that I hope she waits, and I've given her the reasons why I hope she waits. I've never tried to pretend that there is something wrong with sex, but for a young woman, sex comes with a lot of possible risks: health issues, pregnancy, labeling by peers, etc. I'm not doing any favors by downplaying the risks or refusing to address them with her, openly. I know that she has side stepped a lot of mistakes her peers have made because we openly discuss such things, and we talk about it. This week, she told me about a girl she knows who has let several guys at school finger bang her. And we talked about the outcome of that decision, for the girl, including the fact that the guys have not kept their mouths shut, and they've told all their male peers about their sexual experiences with this girl. And, we've talked about how that is now a label that the girl will be wearing for the rest of her high school career, and potentially into college. It isn't fair, but girls need to know that there are larger social ramifications from sexual activity that go far beyond just the immediate ones.

I've never tried to pretend that sex isn't fun, or that I haven't made mistakes, but I've candidly and openly addressed my mistakes with her. And, i've told her what choices I hope she makes. But, I also realize that it is outside of my control, and I'm prepared to make sure she is protected if/when she does decide to have sex.

I know that right now, at 15, she feels completely emotionally unready to do so, because she's told me so.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I dated a guy whose first initiation to sex was when he was 13, with a 17-year-old neighbor girl. He told me once: "It was weird. I enjoyed it, but afterwards, it felt really wrong, and I was ashamed to have sex for a long time after that."

This guy was a ball-o-issues. I'm not saying that it was the sole thing that screwed him up, but that's something you will also see with male victims of adult female perpetrators...they come from dysfunctional homes with violence and substance abuse issues, and they're already screwed up. Add the sexual issues on top of that, and it makes for a mess.

That's the thing. So many child victims of adult perpetrators are not only already victims (abuse/neglect), but become victims of multiple abusers.

And, having worked with kids who were sexually abused professionall, years after the fact...you can tell. Their emotions are all jumbled up and their perceptions of the world are OFF. one of my clients, Cameron, grew up in an abusive/neglectful home, was removed from custody, was then sexually abused by a female caregiver, then a removed from that placement, put with an uncle who also sexually abused him, and then was molested by a boy scout leader. I started working with him when he was a 17-year-old gang member, and it didn't surprise me in the least when he was eventually involved in a homicide. This young man had been so emotionally damaged by so many adults who should have been trustworthy that he could not relate to human beings on any level. It was sad. And, the adults in his life let it happen, the people who should have protected him were the ones who destroyed him.

That sounds like a seriously extreme case.

Was the guy you dated seduced by the 17 yo or was he doing the pursuing.

I think I might see a distinction in whether you (as the teen) are seeking sex and get it as opposed to not seeking sex and having it done to you. As far as potential emotional damage is concerned.

 

[sky dancer]

That sounds like a seriously extreme case.

Was the guy you dated seduced by the 17 yo or was he doing the pursuing.

I think I might see a distinction in whether you (as the teen) are seeking sex and get it as opposed to not seeking sex and having it done to you. As far as potential emotional damage is concerned.

Exactly.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I still woulda done my 10th grade Biology teacher and she wasn't even all that hot. But I was horny as hell and looking to loose that virgin tag real bad.


and, had you woken up one morning with a baby, Aids or herpes I guess your 14 year old ass would have been stoic like a fucking rock about the prospects of your new take on the rest of your life, eh?

What are you Sho, about 19? You're an idiot.

It was before AIDS and Herpes for the most part. I'm an old fuck. And, considering subsequent events, I would have handled any negative outcomes stoically.

 

[catzmeow]

That sounds like a seriously extreme case.

Was the guy you dated seduced by the 17 yo or was he doing the pursuing.

I think I might see a distinction in whether you (as the teen) are seeking sex and get it as opposed to not seeking sex and having it done to you. As far as potential emotional damage is concerned.

The 17 year old seduced the 13 year old boy. She initiated it, but being a horny 13-year-old boy, he gratefully assented.

That's the thing...it's more complex than our gender bias leads us to believe. And no, I don't consider it extreme. I think that men are discouraged from talking about this sort of issue because they are told that they should see it as a conquest and it's something to be lauded for amongst their male peers. Thus, they stifle their confusion, and it leads to other issues...depression, anger, etc.

Male vicitms of sexual assault suffer from the SAME kinds of emotional consequences as females do, but without the same kinds of emotioanl support.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You need to clue it up. I'm really clear on where my daughter is, sexually. She's 15, and I know PRECISELY how far she's gone, physically. I realize I'm fighting a losing battle against her hormones and horniness.

Having said that, the fact of the matter is that a teacher or other adults have a responsibility in our interactions with young people, particularly teenagers, not to abuse our positions of power and trust. No matter how badly you might have wanted to bang your 10th grade teacher, IT IS PART OF HER JOB TO NEVER CROSS THAT LINE. The idea that an adult crossing that line is acceptable simply because the child wants to is complete and utter bullshit.

Just like, even though I know that my daughter will be at some point sexually active, it is part of my job to do what I can to postpone that until she's as emotionally mature as possible. It's also my job to prepare her for that inevitability in such a way that she is able to manage her sexual activities responsibly, and so she doesn't damage herself.

My daughter will be driving soon. Since that's the case, should I just put a 5th of Jack and the car keys in her hand today so she can get started?

You and others are engaged in sexually biased diminishing of the victimization of young men. It's crap.

My reply was not a response to you. You sound like you are doing the right thing and have your parent radar on. My reply was to Cecille who's parent radar sounds like it's on a lengthy lay-a-way program.

I completely agree as I said in another post that it is always the adult's responsibility to avoid getting intimate with a teen.

We used the same tact with our daughter as you. It got us until she was 16. How do we know? She didn't know that we knew where her Myspace page was. We were VERY circumspect about allowing her to drive, get a license etc. let alone the 5th of Jack.

 

[catzmeow]

Exactly.

I know that you are trying to emotionally justify your contact with a 16-year-old teenager.

My comment to you is this:

It is not normal behavior for a 16-year-old girl to seek out sexual one-night stands. It especially was not normal behavior when it happened with you 30 years ago. Even more extreme, it was not normal 30 years ago for 16 year old girls to seek out lesbian one night stands. If you're 52, this happened in 1978. Do you realize the odds of this occurring in that age group in that time period? Infinitessimally small, even relying upon self-report data by teens.

Children who are victims of sexual abuse often act out in precociously sexual ways. I know you know this. It is the only way that they know how to relate to people. Sexual contact between children and adults screws up the child's developmental pathways, and the child learns that they can receive positive emotional gratification from giving sex. It sets people on a path of believing that the only gift they have that can result in a relationship is sex. This is not the path that any of us wants for any child.

It is entirely likely that the 16 year old that you slept with when you were 22 was already a victim, hence her eagerness to pursue a one-night stand with you.

I don't really blame you, but on the other hand, your obsessive need to explain it away as "she wanted it" isn't right, either.

 

[Shogun]

What are you Sho, about 19? You're an idiot.

It was before AIDS and Herpes for the most part. I'm an old fuck. And, considering subsequent events, I would have handled any negative outcomes stoically.

Trust me, I give a damn that you think i'm 19 and/or an idiot.

If you think a 14 year old will take the news of having AIDS like an adult then I feel sorry for anyone whose guardianship you were responsible for. In case you are too old to have caught the fucking 90s memo none of these repercussions have a problem with age brackets and stupid parents. If you got away with it back in the 70s then fine. great. kudos to you. But to assume that you would have handled the news of a lifelong disease like an adult, spoken from the perspective of an adult, youll have to forgive me for laughing that you'd call anyone an idiot.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The 17 year old seduced the 13 year old boy. She initiated it, but being a horny 13-year-old boy, he gratefully assented.

That's the thing...it's more complex than our gender bias leads us to believe. And no, I don't consider it extreme. I think that men are discouraged from talking about this sort of issue because they are told that they should see it as a conquest and it's something to be lauded for amongst their male peers. Thus, they stifle their confusion, and it leads to other issues...depression, anger, etc.

Male vicitms of sexual assault suffer from the SAME kinds of emotional consequences as females do, but without the same kinds of emotioanl support.

I was actually talking about the other case when I was talking about extreme. I would assume you would agree that that case was extreme.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 13. Not by an adult, but by a "peer." Nothing technically happened and I got away, but I think I'm qualified to speak to the issue.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Trust me, I give a damn that you think i'm 19 and/or an idiot.

If you think a 14 year old will take the news of having AIDS like an adult then I feel sorry for anyone whose guardianship you were responsible for. In case you are too old to have caught the fucking 90s memo none of these repercussions have a problem with age brackets and stupid parents. If you got away with it back in the 70s then fine. great. kudos to you. But to assume that you would have handled the news of a lifelong disease like an adult, spoken from the perspective of an adult, youll have to forgive me for laughing that you'd call anyone an idiot.

Hmmm....maybe 12. Do your parents know you're on here?

I was speaking to pregnancy since the others didn't apply. And when I got the news that the stripper I was banging, at barely 18, was pregnant we got married and I shouldered the responsibility. Dick.

 

[catzmeow]

I was actually talking about the other case when I was talking about extreme. I would assume you would agree that that case was extreme.

Absolutely. The sad thing is..it isn't uncommon. Quite a few male and female victims of sexual assault end up being re-victimized by others. Jody Miller, Ph.D. found this was particularly common with gang girls who were sexually victimized...they were ALREADY victims of sexual abuse.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 13. Not by an adult, but by a "peer." Nothing technically happened and I got away, but I think I'm qualified to speak to the issue.

When I was 10, a 12 year old boy attempted to sexually assault me, also. I understand what you are talking about. I ran, but to this day, I get shuddery thinking about it.

The thing is...not every kid is going to react in the same way. A kid who has already been victimized will apparently send off vibes to other sexual predators that make him/her more likely to be victimized again. Their reaction to such an instance is going to be very different from yours. Just as the responses of rape victims are very different depending on their current life circumstances. Some women seem to weather rape very well. Others are completely destroyed by it.

 

[glockmail]

Then you need to get out of your fantasies and vicarious thrills and hit some reality. Go talk to some psychiatrists who actually have to deal with patients who were molested at the age of 14. Better yet, go talk to some 14-year-old boys and realize that they're CHILDREN, not the pseudo-adults you imagine you remember being at that age.

Like I said in an earlier post, "I would have been all over it" means nothing. My son would be all over eating potato chips and chocolate milk for every meal, but that doesn't make it a good thing.

Having a one-time fling ain't "every meal". My grandpap taught me how to drink scotch when I was 13- and I'm no drunk.

 

[catzmeow]

I was speaking to pregnancy since the others didn't apply. And when I got the news that the stripper I was banging, at barely 18, was pregnant we got married and I shouldered the responsibility. Dick.

That sounds like a good time.

 

[Shogun]

Hmmm....maybe 12. Do your parents know you're on here?

I was speaking to pregnancy since the others didn't apply. And when I got the news that the stripper I was banging, at barely 18, was pregnant we got married and I shouldered the responsibility. Dick.

why, are you fishing for a date?


yea dude.. herpes didn't apply 30 years ago. That shit was invented shortly after pepsi clear back in the 80s. sure dude. sure.

indeed, shouldered the responsibility at 18, rather than 14.. what a significant fucking example you are.

 

[glockmail]

Oh, yeah. Because 14-year-old girls don't have any physical responses to sex, and the fact that something bad and harmful was also pleasurable negates any psychological damage it did, rather than exacerbating it.

Actually, it has more to do with societal norms and expectations.

 

[catzmeow]

Actually, it has more to do with societal norms and expectations.

The problem is the societal norms and expectations state that boys shouldn't feel like a victim. That doesn't mean that boys DON'T feel like victims.

Would you feel the same way if the perpetrator in this instance had been an adult male with a teenaged male?

 

[Tech_Esq]

It is not normal behavior for a 16-year-old girl to seek out sexual one-night stands.

Perhaps not, however, the Police did not sing "Don't Stand So Close" for no reason. (Which describes precisely this phenomenon, in case you aren't familiar). Though I don't think it addressed the one night stand aspect of it.

It especially was not normal behavior when it happened with you 30 years ago.

I think it was much more likely for teens to have a more "free" attitude toward sex in the late 70s. Having come of age in that time myself, I can tell you that basically, the only thing we worried about was pregnancy. For a tutorial on this time period, please see Fast Times at Ridgemont High. It's as accurate a portrayal of the period as any documentary on the subject.

Even more extreme, it was not normal 30 years ago for 16 year old girls to seek out lesbian one night stands. If you're 52, this happened in 1978. Do you realize the odds of this occurring in that age group in that time period? Infinitessimally small, even relying upon self-report data by teens.

Probably true.

Children who are victims of sexual abuse often act out in precociously sexual ways. I know you know this. It is the only way that they know how to relate to people. Sexual contact between children and adults screws up the child's developmental pathways, and the child learns that they can receive positive emotional gratification from giving sex. It sets people on a path of believing that the only gift they have that can result in a relationship is sex. This is not the path that any of us wants for any child.

While all that may be true, I don't think that teens desiring and experimenting with sex could be called precocious sexual behavior even to the extreme of desiring someone outside their age range. If you'll recall your own past, you probably at one time or another decried the immaturity of potential sexual partners your age and desired someone "more mature" n'est pas? How strange if some succeed in carrying it into effect?

 

[Tech_Esq]

That sounds like a good time.

Which part of it? LOL, there were some parts that were very fun. There were others that weren't fun at all. But, at the end of the day, he's now 25, married and they have a baby girl on the way.