Will Rump Palestine become a UN protectorate?

[Kondor3]

...The Bantustans existed before Apartheid as reserves...

Yeppers. By 19th Century Euro-bureaucrats, to keep Blacks segregated from Whites. The fact that a formal policy called 'Apartheid' had not yet been given that label is a classic example of irrelevance, when contesting their artificial nature or their outside creators or the underlying purpose of such reserves. Let's not quibble about micro-minutiae.

...None of Palestinian's "desires" have been taken into account. The West Bank was not a political entity until Israel was established...

Let's not muddy the waters.

You and I are discussing whether or not the West Bank and Gaza are sufficiently incorporated into the Israeli state so as to warrant enfranchisement, not the history of the West Bank or Gaza.

...The occupied territories are analogous to the Bantustans and are used by the Jews just as they were used by the Boers...

No, they are not analogous. Apples and oranges.

...To prevent non-Jews and non-whites, respectively from voting...

Voting is very low on the list of why the Israelis do not admit the West Bank or Gaza into their Union.

This may have something to do with the idea that the Palestinians insist upon self-determination and that they have long-since declared themselves to be a State separate and apart from Israel, at their own choosing.

The decades-old sworn oath of most Palestinian political and militia organizations and their leadership and rank and file, to destroy Israel, may also have something to do with it.

If you are on the outside, sitting in some sliver of land that my country holds at arms' length, and you swear upon your holy books and in your media and schools for decades on end, to destroy my country and to drive me and my family into the sea, and then you come back and tell me that you no longer feel that way, but that you want citizenship and the vote in my country, I am going to kick your scrawny ass back onto your sliver of land, and laugh in your face while I'm doing it.

In dealing with the Israelis, you are dealing with a people just a wee bit more advanced than the home-schooled home-boys that foolishly expect others to buy into such nonsense.

...No matter what you think, outside of some Israelis and some Americans, the world agrees that Israel is an Apartheid state.

Nonsense, but, pretending that you're right, for the sake of argument... wake me up, when 'The World' decides to get off its ass and actually do something about it.

A UN Protectorate might be your only chance, right about now.

And, frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for that to happen.

By begging the UN Secretary General for Protectorate status, Abbas tipped his hand in the PsyOps aspect of this war, and demonstrated to his enemy, just how badly Fatah and Hamas are shitting their pants over the wrath that the IDF is raining down upon the heads of these Hamas scumbags.

Still, the idea of a UN Protectorate is intriguing - so much to go wrong - so many ways for the UN to phukk it up - so likely that they'll skeddaddle at the first sign of trouble.

Especially if the Americans decide to sit that one out.

Which they almost certainly will.

The deep friendship between the United States and Israel runs far deeper than Barack Obama or John Kerry or any of that lot.

 

[irosie91]

Maldives is a small island country in south east asia------it has a muslim majority----
and is called a DEMOCRACY-----several years ago it conducted a DEMOCRATIC
vote on a referendum -----ALL CITIZENS OF MALDIVES MUST BE OF THE MUSLIM RELIGION---
the referendum passed------and non muslim citizens were divested of citizenship-----
Maldives is still called a "DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY"

It is not considered a democracy by me or the rest of the world as of February 2013 when they passed the discriminatory law on voting.

"Democracy Derailed"

https://medium.com/this-is-maldives/democracy-derailed-908bbd10d7f2

oh----you don't consider Maldives to be a democratic country-----do you consider Indonesia to
be a democratic country? --------are you being consulted as to which country is or is not
democratic?

 

[Ropey]

Protection of a "Virtual State". Yes, they need something and the UN will allow them to think they have a state and maybe that's enough to have them stop setting up their civilians to be killed.

Since a virtual state by definition is unstable.

 

[RoccoR]

Ropey, et al,

The whole concept is a little strange. "Placing Palestine under an international protection system administered by the United Nations" S/2014/514 21 July 2014 I saw this last week, and asked myself: After all the trouble the Arab's caused the Mandate for Palestine, who they going to get to volunteer to be a Trustee?

Protection of a "Virtual State". Yes, they need something and the UN will allow them to think they have a state and maybe that's enough to have them stop setting up their civilians to be killed.

Since a virtual state by definition is unstable.

(COMMENT)

This is actually something interesting. But it might be difficult to accomplish. This has to do with Chapter XI and XII of the Charter; in fact, much of the language is patterned after Article 76.

However, the Charter has inherent obligations as well.

It shall be the duty of the administering authority to ensure that the trust territory shall play its part in the maintenance of international peace and security. To this end the administering authority may make use of volunteer forces, facilities, and assistance from the trust territory in carrying out the obligations towards the Security Council undertaken in this regard by the administering authority, as well as for local defence and the maintenance of law and order within the trust territory.

This might require the use of force to subdue Hostile Arab Palestinians. Realistically, it would place a great burden on Israel relocate settlers and the modification to the Barrier, but also on the Trustee to clean-out both the West Bank and Gaza Strip of terrorist organizations. This might create more of a burden than any nation wants to assume. After attempts by the Fedayeen to assassinate the HM The King, I doubt that Jordan would want the job. And I doubt that Egypt would want the job. Maybe Saudi Arabia?

As this territory is often considered a "strategic area," "all functions of the United Nations relating to strategic areas, including the approval of the terms of the trusteeship agreements and of their alteration or amendment shall be exercised by the Security Council." (Article 83)

It will be interesting to see how this evolves. This is like asking to be place under Mandate again!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Ropey]

When the Palestinians applied for Virtual State status, I thought this was a good thing. Now they had finally admitted they are not a country or state.

This is the next step to having them start to condition a civilian infrastructure through a protectorate.

Clearly they have to lead themselves to a solution and Israel is already solved and created.

 

[RoccoR]

Ropey, et al,

I'm not sure exactly what it means.

When the Palestinians applied for Virtual State status, I thought this was a good thing. Now they had finally admitted they are not a country or state.

This is the next step to having them start to condition a civilian infrastructure through a protectorate.

Clearly they have to lead themselves to a solution and Israel is already solved and created.

(COMMENT)

In the past, the Arab Palestinian has always to use the military capacity of the Arab League for strong-arm purposes.

I suspect that the attempt to establish a trusteeship is really a new ploy to make an end run around the need to negotiate a permanent settlement. The letter focuses on issues around Article 49(6) of the Geneva Convention relative to the settlements, the actions taken by Israeli Security Forces, and Israeli activity in Jerusalem. This may very well be an attempt to stop Israeli expansion of settlement and actually start a program of dismantlement.

The settlement expansion is the heat that Israel brings to bare on the Arab Palestinians to encourage them to make a good faith effort at the negotiating table. Once that pressure is removed, the Arab Palestinian will have little incentive to negotiate.

Most Respectfully,
R

PS: I'm not sure why they cited S/RES/699 (1991). That is about Iraq, not Israel.

 

[Kondor3]

...I suspect that the attempt to establish a trusteeship is really a new ploy to make an end run around the need to negotiate a permanent settlement...

It may be much simpler and less manipulative than that.

It may simply be a ploy to avoid Hamas being crushed and Gaza being put back under true occupation again - to save what can be saved, while there is still time - given how close they appear to be, to total defeat and capitulation.

Or a combination of your suspicion and my own, or some other not articulted here.

 

[Kondor3]

As I said earlier, Rocco, Abbas' request to the UN to be transformed into a Protectorate may be closely tied to the idea that Hamas is quickly running out of time...

=====================================

Israel Says It Is Escalating Gaza Campaign

Defies International Pressure for Immediate Cease-fire

Wall Street Journal - By TAMER EL-GHOBASHY in Gaza City and JOSHUA MITNICK in Tel Aviv -Updated July 29, 2014 1:02 a.m. ET

Israel's leaders said they were escalating the military campaign in Gaza and told the country to prepare for a prolonged operation, defying international demands for an immediate cease-fire after Hamas militants broke a Muslim holiday lull.

The military chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz, said Israel's assault on Gaza's Hamas rulers was being "intensified" after three weeks of fighting that has cost more than 1,100 lives.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a televised address, gave no sign the military would go beyond its stated goals—degrading Hamas's rocket arsenal and finding and destroying a network of cross-border tunnels that fighters use to infiltrate Israel. The military needs about another week to accomplish that, officials said.

"We will not finish the mission, we will not finish the operation, without neutralizing the tunnels, which have the sole purpose of annihilating our citizens and killing our children," the prime minister said. He told Israelis to brace for a prolonged fight.

As he spoke, the military sent messages instructing thousands of Palestinians living on the outskirts of Gaza City to leave their homes and take shelter in the city center—an apparent prelude to an assault on suspected Hamas positions in civilian neighborhoods.

Just before midnight, missiles struck several buildings in Gaza City, some of the heaviest bombardment since the assault began three weeks ago. Flares lit the moonless sky, followed by strikes that rattled and broke windows several blocks away. Acrid smoke hung over the city that houses many of Gaza's municipal buildings and its commercial center.

Later, flares lighted up the midnight sky over Gaza City, accompanied by repeated explosions that rattled windows.

There had been a brief lull in fighting from Sunday afternoon as Israel eased up on strikes for the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr, which began on Monday.

But Mr. Netanyahu ordered a resumption of attacks after Hamas struck two military targets inside Israel on Monday, lobbing a mortar that killed four soldiers at a makeshift base 4 miles from the Gaza border and popping up from a cross-border tunnel to open fire on a military patrol. The military said it killed five militants in a firefight at the tunnel opening, and that five of its soldiers were killed.

In Gaza City, two blasts shook a residential neighborhood called Beach Camp, killing eight children and two adults, Gaza's health ministry said. Both Israel and Hamas denied responsibility. Palestinian officials blamed an Israeli airstrike. Israel's military released an aerial photo diagram purporting to show the paths of four rockets fired from Gaza, with one of them landing at Beach Camp.

Hamas responded defiantly to Mr. Netanyahu's comments.

Mohamed El Helw, 36 years old, stood at the hospital next to a gurney carrying a bloodied white body bag, weeping. He said the bag contained the remains of his father, who had gone out to buy treats for his grandchildren for the holiday.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon singled out Israel, accusing it of "pummeling" Gazans with "indiscriminate destruction" and warned the Jewish state to fulfill its obligations as "an occupying power" to protect civilians.

The U.N. chief demanded that Israel and Hamas end the violence "in the name of humanity." He accused Mr. Netanyahu and Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal of being "morally wrong" for letting their people get killed. Mr. Ban said he spoke to Mr. Netanyahu on Monday, urging him to accept a cease-fire first, then to address the root causes of the conflict. An emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Monday called for an "immediate and unconditional humanitarian cease-fire," echoing President Barack Obama's appeal in a phone call to Mr. Netanyahu on Sunday.

...

Israel Says It Is Escalating Gaza Campaign - WSJ

 

[RoccoR]

Kondor3, et al,

It is quite possible that you are right.

As I said earlier, Rocco, Abbas' request to the UN to be transformed into a Protectorate may be closely tied to the idea that Hamas is quickly running out of time...

(OBSERVATION)

I see that the "sympathy" propaganda effort has intensified as well.

"Mohamed El Helw, 36 years old, stood at the hospital next to a gurney carrying a bloodied white body bag, weeping. He said the bag contained the remains of his father, who had gone out to buy treats for his grandchildren for the holiday."​

How touching! I think I'm tearing-up.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Kondor3, et al,

It is quite possible that you are right.

As I said earlier, Rocco, Abbas' request to the UN to be transformed into a Protectorate may be closely tied to the idea that Hamas is quickly running out of time...

(OBSERVATION)

I see that the "sympathy" propaganda effort has intensified as well.

"Mohamed El Helw, 36 years old, stood at the hospital next to a gurney carrying a bloodied white body bag, weeping. He said the bag contained the remains of his father, who had gone out to buy treats for his grandchildren for the holiday."​

How touching! I think I'm tearing-up.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are a disgusting ****.

 

[Ropey]

Ropey, et al,

I'm not sure exactly what it means.

When the Palestinians applied for Virtual State status, I thought this was a good thing. Now they had finally admitted they are not a country or state.

This is the next step to having them start to condition a civilian infrastructure through a protectorate.

Clearly they have to lead themselves to a solution and Israel is already solved and created.

(COMMENT)

In the past, the Arab Palestinian has always to use the military capacity of the Arab League for strong-arm purposes.

I suspect that the attempt to establish a trusteeship is really a new ploy to make an end run around the need to negotiate a permanent settlement. The letter focuses on issues around Article 49(6) of the Geneva Convention relative to the settlements, the actions taken by Israeli Security Forces, and Israeli activity in Jerusalem. This may very well be an attempt to stop Israeli expansion of settlement and actually start a program of dismantlement.

The settlement expansion is the heat that Israel brings to bare on the Arab Palestinians to encourage them to make a good faith effort at the negotiating table. Once that pressure is removed, the Arab Palestinian will have little incentive to negotiate.

Most Respectfully,
R

PS: I'm not sure why they cited S/RES/699 (1991). That is about Iraq, not Israel.

This may allow them to transcend the brutality of Islam....by having a protectorate protect themselves against themselves.

It's not about Israel negotiations until they show that they are civilized enough to put takng care of their people ahead of killing Jews.

This is the second step and the recalcitrant Palestinians are being led to the water.

 

[docmauser1]

Kondor3, et al,

It is quite possible that you are right.

As I said earlier, Rocco, Abbas' request to the UN to be transformed into a Protectorate may be closely tied to the idea that Hamas is quickly running out of time...

(OBSERVATION)

I see that the "sympathy" propaganda effort has intensified as well.

"Mohamed El Helw, 36 years old, stood at the hospital next to a gurney carrying a bloodied white body bag, weeping. He said the bag contained the remains of his father, who had gone out to buy treats for his grandchildren for the holiday."​

How touching! I think I'm tearing-up.
Most Respectfully,
R

You are a disgusting ****.

And the "grandchildren" in the meantime were getting a rocket ready for launch and met allah all together Or, the alleged grandad met allah naturally, but a gallon of cowblood (white(!) bodybag) was necessary for palliwood productions. Or, ... anything palliwood, of course.

 

[montelatici]

Ropey, et al,

I'm not sure exactly what it means.

When the Palestinians applied for Virtual State status, I thought this was a good thing. Now they had finally admitted they are not a country or state.

This is the next step to having them start to condition a civilian infrastructure through a protectorate.

Clearly they have to lead themselves to a solution and Israel is already solved and created.

(COMMENT)

In the past, the Arab Palestinian has always to use the military capacity of the Arab League for strong-arm purposes.

I suspect that the attempt to establish a trusteeship is really a new ploy to make an end run around the need to negotiate a permanent settlement. The letter focuses on issues around Article 49(6) of the Geneva Convention relative to the settlements, the actions taken by Israeli Security Forces, and Israeli activity in Jerusalem. This may very well be an attempt to stop Israeli expansion of settlement and actually start a program of dismantlement.

The settlement expansion is the heat that Israel brings to bare on the Arab Palestinians to encourage them to make a good faith effort at the negotiating table. Once that pressure is removed, the Arab Palestinian will have little incentive to negotiate.

Most Respectfully,
R

PS: I'm not sure why they cited S/RES/699 (1991). That is about Iraq, not Israel.

This may allow them to transcend the brutality of Islam....by having a protectorate protect themselves against themselves.

It's not about Israel negotiations until they show that they are civilized enough to put takng care of their people ahead of killing Jews.

This is the second step and the recalcitrant Palestinians are being led to the water.

" is the heat that Israel brings to bare on the Arab Palestinians "

LOL, "brings to bare". Unbelievable.

But, the Israelis have never had any intention of negotiating in good faith with the Palestinians. They have no intention of ceding control of the borders, air space or territorial sea of all mandatory Palestine. They have no intention of allowing the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state.

The Palestinians have come to the conclusion since they cannot have a state of their own, being ruled by the UN is preferable to being ruled by the Jews. Can't blame them.

 

[Kondor3]

Kondor3, et al,

It is quite possible that you are right.

As I said earlier, Rocco, Abbas' request to the UN to be transformed into a Protectorate may be closely tied to the idea that Hamas is quickly running out of time...

(OBSERVATION)

I see that the "sympathy" propaganda effort has intensified as well.

"Mohamed El Helw, 36 years old, stood at the hospital next to a gurney carrying a bloodied white body bag, weeping. He said the bag contained the remains of his father, who had gone out to buy treats for his grandchildren for the holiday."​

How touching! I think I'm tearing-up.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are a disgusting ****.

Rocco scores far higher on the Respectability Scale than you, that much is certain.

As to his utilizing the sob-story aspect of the story, to reinforce the idea that the pro-Hamas propaganda campaign was being stepped-up...

Better that one of 'yours' dies, and is the subject of such a story, than one of 'ours'.

Who knows... in the unlikely event that the UN finds the 'stones' to go into Rump Palestine and take over... Hamas will no longer be able to put 'your' women and children at-risk.

Who knows... if Hamas stupidly resists the UN and its policies, perhaps the weight of the entire UN can be brought to bear, to perform a search-and-destroy upon Hamas.

Although unlikely, one can never tell, what strange twists of fate lie ahead, and, that would be a very interesting twist of fate, indeed... a real beauty.

 

[Kondor3]

...The Palestinians have come to the conclusion since they cannot have a state of their own, being ruled by the UN is preferable to being ruled by the Jews. Can't blame them.

1. the UN has to agree to the request

2. the UN has to find a coalition insane enough to take-on that herculean task

3. the US will probably veto any attempt in the Security Council in connection with Step (1) or (2)

The time may have come when the Israelis are going to get the chance to finish-off Hamas.

Unless, by some miracle, everything falls into place, along the lines of what Abbas has asked for, and the UN actually deploys in force, and a Protectorate become a reality.

 

[docmauser1]

The Palestinians have come to the conclusion since they cannot have a state of their own, being ruled by the UN is preferable to being ruled by the Jews. Can't blame them.

It's a palistanian occupation.

 

[montelatici]

...The Palestinians have come to the conclusion since they cannot have a state of their own, being ruled by the UN is preferable to being ruled by the Jews. Can't blame them.

1. the UN has to agree to the request

2. the UN has to find a coalition insane enough to take-on that herculean task

3. the US will probably veto any attempt in the Security Council in connection with Step (1) or (2)

The time may have come when the Israelis are going to get the chance to finish-off Hamas.

Eliminate Hamas? So what, you think the Palestinians will just go away? In all probability an ISIS style group will take their place which will be far more dangerous and will not provide the social services that Hamas provides to the people.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians have come to the conclusion since they cannot have a state of their own, being ruled by the UN is preferable to being ruled by the Jews. Can't blame them.

It's a palistanian occupation.

Who are the "palistanians" and what are they occupying, one of the Bantustans? Afghanistan? Tajikistan?.

 

[Kondor3]

...Eliminate Hamas? So what, you think the Palestinians will just go away? In all probability an ISIS style group will take their place which will be far more dangerous and will not provide the social services that Hamas provides to the people.

One group of bottom-feeders at a time.

Let's kill-off Hamas and put your theory to the test.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=47237]montelatici[/MENTION], et al,

Yes, when I'm typing fast, I do tend to exchange homophones.

" is the heat that Israel brings to bare on the Arab Palestinians "

LOL, "brings to bare". Unbelievable.

(COMMENT)

Yes, from time to time I will make such mistakes --- and maybe even funnier mistakes. I know I'm not perfect, and rather enjoy laughing at some inconsequential mistake I've made.

v/r
R