Will more guns create a safer society?

[westwall]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

 

[Zander]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

 

[80zephyr]

Hmm. When I read claims such as this, I stop, look around, and take in what is happening around me. For the last decade or so, we have relaxed gun laws across the US.

Has murder, rape and mayhem went down or up?

All crimes are approaching historic lows. If what the OP states is true, we would be seeing a rise in crime, not a decrease.

You can "read" about anything you like, but, you have to compare it to reality. If what you read does not comport with reality, it is time to realize that what you read is false.

It just can't get any simpler than that.

Mark

 

[Esmeralda]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

And you are a jackass and I know a hell of a lot more about France than you imagine, and probably more than you do, in fact. And as I am in the process of arranging to retire there and spend the rest of my life there, I will indeed know far more about France than some narrow minded, ignorant, provincial American who lives in America. And if you have actually convinced yourself that America is safer than France, and probably believe the French should arm themselves to the extent Americans have, you are indeed a total ******* moron.

 

[Esmeralda]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

 

[80zephyr]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

And you are a jackass and I know a hell of a lot more about France than you imagine, and probably more than you do, in fact. And as I am in the process of arranging to retire there and spend the rest of my life there, I will indeed know far more about France than some narrow minded, ignorant, provincial American who lives in America. And if you have actually convinced yourself that America is safer than France, and probably believe the French should arm themselves to the extent Americans have, you are indeed a total ******* moron.

Guns are not the difference between France and us. Culture is. Russia has some of the strictest gun laws on earth, yet they kill each other at twice the rate Americans do.

Worldwide, there is no correlation between gun ownership and crime. There are countries with high gun ownership and less crime, and there are countries with high gun ownership and more crime.

Conversely, there are countries with low gun ownership with high crime rates, and countries with low gun ownership and low crime rates.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

If the gun toters are ruining America, surely you have a massive amount of data to show us how the proliferation of guns during the past two decades has turned us into the "wild west"?

Mark

 

[westwall]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

And you are a jackass and I know a hell of a lot more about France than you imagine, and probably more than you do, in fact. And as I am in the process of arranging to retire there and spend the rest of my life there, I will indeed know far more about France than some narrow minded, ignorant, provincial American who lives in America. And if you have actually convinced yourself that America is safer than France, and probably believe the French should arm themselves to the extent Americans have, you are indeed a total ******* moron.

We live in BOTH places silly person. When one spouts off, as you do on a regular basis, one should be properly prepared. You clearly are not which is why you hurl insults instead of facts. France is like ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. There are some good areas and some bad. I dare you to go to the 18em arronddisemont et
porte de clignancourt after dark. You won't get shot, but you'll most certainly get raped and or stabbed. And that one actually has a Metro stop. The really bad arronddisement like Clichy sous Bois Monfermeil are nowhere near a Metro stop thankfully, and can only be reached by car or bus. And then of course there is Seine Saint Denis, THE most dangerous place in Paris. It's a interesting area in the daytime, but not one you wish to visit after dark.

As I said our place is in the oldest part of Paris so is quite nice. Lots of police around so the worst thing you have to worry about are pickpockets (who are rampant) and the occasional drunk and belligerent tourist.

 

[westwall]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

And this very statement makes clear why you are a moron. 80% of the violent crime in the US is committed by black and Hispanic gang bangers. That's a fact. Your head is so far up your ass with your cultural relativism and desire to paint gun owners as Neanderthals that you ignore basic facts. Stay in France but please don't be anywhere near Lyon, Milleau, Sens, Paris or the Loire valley where we have relatives.... There are enough stupid people there without having to worry about you and your ignorant intellectually dishonest self.

 

[Esmeralda]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

And you are a jackass and I know a hell of a lot more about France than you imagine, and probably more than you do, in fact. And as I am in the process of arranging to retire there and spend the rest of my life there, I will indeed know far more about France than some narrow minded, ignorant, provincial American who lives in America. And if you have actually convinced yourself that America is safer than France, and probably believe the French should arm themselves to the extent Americans have, you are indeed a total ******* moron.

We live in BOTH places silly person. When one spouts off, as you do on a regular basis, one should be properly prepared. You clearly are not which is why you hurl insults instead of facts. France is like ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. There are some good areas and some bad. I dare you to go to the 18em arronddisemont et
porte de clignancourt after dark. You won't get shot, but you'll most certainly get raped and or stabbed. And that one actually has a Metro stop. The really bad arronddisement like Clichy sous Bois Monfermeil are nowhere near a Metro stop thankfully, and can only be reached by car or bus. And then of course there is Seine Saint Denis, THE most dangerous place in Paris. It's a interesting area in the daytime, but not one you wish to visit after dark.

As I said our place is in the oldest part of Paris so is quite nice. Lots of police around so the worst thing you have to worry about are pickpockets (who are rampant) and the occasional drunk and belligerent tourist.

So your frame of reference for the entirety of France and French culture is Paris. Interesting. Pretty much says it all.

 

[Esmeralda]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

And this very statement makes clear why you are a moron. 80% of the violent crime in the US is committed by black and Hispanic gang bangers. That's a fact. Your head is so far up your ass with your cultural relativism and desire to paint gun owners as Neanderthals that you ignore basic facts. Stay in France but please don't be anywhere near Lyon, Milleau, Sens, Paris or the Loire valley where we have relatives.... There are enough stupid people there without having to worry about you and your ignorant intellectually dishonest self.

How stupid can you get? All of the statistics indicate that in France murder, violent crime, gun crime, rape, etc. occur at a far lower rate than in the US. Yet, because of your bigotry, you see France as a generally violent place, apparently as bad as the US. And you blame most of the crime in the US, and apparently in France too, on minorities, on people of color. You are a sick racist bastard. Studies also show that racists are of lower than average intelligence and/or of low education. That's you buddy. Sick, unintelligient, uneducated. I cannot abide racists. I loath racism and racists, and that is what you are.

 

[Zander]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

mmmhmmm.....you go gurl!!

It's people like me who are destroying the country.....



Esmeralda, you are a Constitution hating twit. Have fun in France! They have great Cheese!! D'affinois is one of my favorites. Please, stay there.......we don't need you.

 

[westwall]

If you feel safer in France, then by all means stay in France. It's a very nice place.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, I will exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

And this very statement makes clear why you are a moron. 80% of the violent crime in the US is committed by black and Hispanic gang bangers. That's a fact. Your head is so far up your ass with your cultural relativism and desire to paint gun owners as Neanderthals that you ignore basic facts. Stay in France but please don't be anywhere near Lyon, Milleau, Sens, Paris or the Loire valley where we have relatives.... There are enough stupid people there without having to worry about you and your ignorant intellectually dishonest self.

How stupid can you get? All of the statistics indicate that in France murder, violent crime, gun crime, rape, etc. occur at a far lower rate than in the US. Yet, because of your bigotry, you see France as a generally violent place, apparently as bad as the US. And you blame most of the crime in the US, and apparently in France too, on minorities, on people of color. You are a sick racist bastard. Studies also show that racists are of lower than average intelligence and/or of low education. That's you buddy. Sick, unintelligient, uneducated. I cannot abide racists. I loath racism and racists, and that is what you are.

Yes, they do. Because they don't have the population of black and Hispanic gangbangers that the US has to drive the crime rates through the roof. Only now with the massive influx of Africans is France beginning to suffer violent crime like the US does. Thanks for playing, you just proved my point. Here's a simple article so even you can understand what is happening.... Violent crime is increasing exponentially and not even your tunnel vision will be able to ignore that soon.

"France has a similar crime rate to most other European countries and in common with them crime has increased considerably in recent years; the number of reported crimes has almost doubled in a decade: an estimated 18m offences are reported to the police each year, 5m of which result in an official crime report and 1.3m in legal procedings, 650,000 in court, although more than half of these cases are dropped."


France Crime in France History and statistics France has a similar crime rate to most other European

 

[westwall]

That was a SINGLE three month long riot. There have been many more. We own a flat on the Isle San Louis that has been in my wife's family for over 600 years so I am quite confident that we know more about Paris, and France than you ever will. Your arguments are facile and are myopic in their extent.

And you are a jackass and I know a hell of a lot more about France than you imagine, and probably more than you do, in fact. And as I am in the process of arranging to retire there and spend the rest of my life there, I will indeed know far more about France than some narrow minded, ignorant, provincial American who lives in America. And if you have actually convinced yourself that America is safer than France, and probably believe the French should arm themselves to the extent Americans have, you are indeed a total ******* moron.

We live in BOTH places silly person. When one spouts off, as you do on a regular basis, one should be properly prepared. You clearly are not which is why you hurl insults instead of facts. France is like ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. There are some good areas and some bad. I dare you to go to the 18em arronddisemont et
porte de clignancourt after dark. You won't get shot, but you'll most certainly get raped and or stabbed. And that one actually has a Metro stop. The really bad arronddisement like Clichy sous Bois Monfermeil are nowhere near a Metro stop thankfully, and can only be reached by car or bus. And then of course there is Seine Saint Denis, THE most dangerous place in Paris. It's a interesting area in the daytime, but not one you wish to visit after dark.

As I said our place is in the oldest part of Paris so is quite nice. Lots of police around so the worst thing you have to worry about are pickpockets (who are rampant) and the occasional drunk and belligerent tourist.

So your frame of reference for the entirety of France and French culture is Paris. Interesting. Pretty much says it all.

No, it's not. We have relatives all over France. Try walking alone anywhere along the Mediterranean coast, at night, if you think you're so smart. Your myopia speaks even more volumes of just how separated from the real world you are. Here's a hint, the Queen in Buckingham Palace really doesn't need a gun. But she has guards who do...

 

[2aguy]

Guns don't make us any safer.
They just make it easier to cause death and destruction when someone over reacts.

gun murders each year in the states according to the FBI...8-9,000

You have seen the actual studies...I have posted them enough....just for you...how many times are guns used to save lives and stop violent crime....

...this time is just for you...the statistics on how many times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...keeping in mind, according to the FBI, there are about 8-9,000 gun murders a year....and about 80% of those occur in small, multi block areas in inner city areas of our major cities...usually controlled by democrats...having been controlled by democrats for decades....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512
DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043
Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036
And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")


From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”
--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."

As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:
As Kleck points out in his paper...

All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year. None of the surveys implied estimates even remotely like the 65,000 to 82,000 figures derived from the NCVS. To date, there has been no confirmation of even the most approximate sort of the NCVS estimates. Indeed, no survey has ever yielded an estimate which is of the same magnitude as those derived from the NCVS.


....can you answer the question...since none of these studies is lower than about 700,000 times a year....

which is bigger....and how do you justify disarming 1.4 million people who saved lives and stopped violent crime....to try to stop 8-9,000 gun murders a year....?

--------------------

So.....I think guns make us safer can you do the math...

8-9,000 gun murders a year vs. 1.4 million times a year, on average, that guns are used to save lives and stop violent criminal attack....

 

[2aguy]

What we see in other countries which have strict gun laws is that less guns in circulation create a safer society.

Actually, what you see are more violent crimes...as in Britain...because criminals have no fear of their victims....how do these countries deal with this crime...they don't report them...as has been found in Britain...as they hide their violent crime stats....

 

[2aguy]

And I will probably never return to America. It is people like you and the other wacko rightwing, gun toting Americans who ruin America: not the blacks, not immigrants, but people like you are destroying the country.

Learn the koran....you are going to need it in the next 10 years or so......

 

[2aguy]

I have an update....from my post on gun studies...adding in Dr. Kleck's number at 2.5 million and the NCVS we have 17 studies...I don't know the 19 that obama's CDC used....

so the total is 27,407,159 divided by 17= an average of 1,612,185 times guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

Vs.

8-9,000 gun murders each year....

Tell me....which number is bigger......

guns save more lives than they take......

 

[2aguy]

Figaro....do you see why your information is inaccurate? If guns are such a problem why is it that violent crime has gone down again in 2013 with more people owning guns and carrying them for protection? Well Figaro, how do you explain the numbers?

 

[Geaux4it]

If you have a gun in the home, you are automatically at greater risk for homicide in your own home by a gun.

I've written about this before but -

I know of a woman who had her gun taken away from her and was beaten with it. She was very lucky to have gotten out alive but she still suffers from the injuries from being pistol whipped.

She would have been much better off if she had used an air taser on the intruder.

That is so dumb. Oh, if she had not had that pistol he would of had to beat her with his fist. I'm sure she feels better about that.

-Geaux