Will libs fight to pull the plug on this girl

[S.J.]

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

How would you like to be left millions of dollars in debt because the GOVERNMENT kept your wife alive against her wishes?
Don't you think the GOVERNMENT who made the decision to keep her alive should foot her medical bills?

This is a case where the small government crowd is for Big Government and damn individual rights!

It's more of a case where the BIG government crowd, who advocates federal funding for killing babies but is against federal funding to keep one alive. Who has the moral high ground here?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More libfag fantasy world. If she isn't alive then a tree isn't alive either.

The question was never whether or not she was alive. The question was whether or not she wanted to live as a vegetable. The fact that her heart was still beating simply shows the lower brain was still functioning.

The actual question is what does the law say.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why keep her alive and keep the medical bills mounting? Are you going to help pay for them? How would the husband feel, knowing his wife is only being kept alive to remain an incubator?

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

Feel free to find me anyone in this country that has been left destitute by medical bills. It should be easy, unless, of course, everyone that sneers at the claim that medical bills cause more bankruptcies than anything else are right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Another link says that even if they signed a DNR, it would be ignored because she is pregnant. Her wishes don't matter, regardless. She has to stay on life support until the fetus is viable, then be sliced open, baby delivered, potentially brain damaged, and who foots the bill?

If the Texas government want to keep her alive, fine - they can pay her medical expenses. If the baby is brain damaged, they can foot the bill for his/her health care. That's fair.

DNRs are not legally binding, the final decision always lies with the nearest relative.

Nearest relative is her husband, and his wishes are being ignored.

Because there is actual law that takes precedence, just like there is law that makes it legal for a doctor to assume that anyone who is unconscious wants life saving treatment. You love the law, you should love this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why keep her alive and keep the medical bills mounting? Are you going to help pay for them? How would the husband feel, knowing his wife is only being kept alive to remain an incubator?

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

How would you like to be left millions of dollars in debt because the GOVERNMENT kept your wife alive against her wishes?
Don't you think the GOVERNMENT who made the decision to keep her alive should foot her medical bills?

They have insurance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

How would you like to be left millions of dollars in debt because the GOVERNMENT kept your wife alive against her wishes?
Don't you think the GOVERNMENT who made the decision to keep her alive should foot her medical bills?

This is a case where the small government crowd is for Big Government and damn individual rights!

I thought the cost of a single human life was worth all sorts of oppresive regulations, when did that suddenly not become your position?

 

[rdean]

Like how much they wanted Teri schiavo to be killed and mutilated in an autopsy?


Monday rally planned for brain-dead Oakland girl - SFGate

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

 

[S.J.]

Like how much they wanted Teri schiavo to be killed and mutilated in an autopsy?


Monday rally planned for brain-dead Oakland girl - SFGate

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

That's YOUR battle cry. We value human life.

 

[rdean]

Like how much they wanted Teri schiavo to be killed and mutilated in an autopsy?


Monday rally planned for brain-dead Oakland girl - SFGate

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

That's YOUR battle cry. We value human life.

Yea, up until it's born. After that, it's a different story.

47%

 

[S.J.]

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

That's YOUR battle cry. We value human life.

Yea, up until it's born. After that, it's a different story.

47%

If you're suggesting Republicans don't care about human life because we don't feel an obligation to assume the responsibilities of the parents, that's simply an empty argument. You liberals think because you're responsible for the conception, you therefore have the moral right to kill it. That's how fucked up you are.

 

[Vox]

So why do libfags want her rotting in a coffin?

she IS dead.

brain death is a legal declaration of death in the US.

her brain won't recover. She will not live much longer anyway as brain function is needed for regulation of other organs and as time passes everything will simply "shut down" and eventually the heart will also stop.

I would probably let the family adjust for couple of more days. the costs of keeping her on life support are big, but they won't ruin the hospital and may help the family to have a closure not a never-ending feeling of guilt that they did not prevent the hospital from "killing" their child.

You clearly have never had to make a decision like this...hopefully you never will...hospitals should never have this kind of power over the wishes of the family...

I was the one pulling the plug in many, many, many cases. brain dead IS dead.
BTW in the situation when the family has no say on this it is easier for them.
Wishes of the family can not go beyond doable things. Reviving dead brain is impossible, unfortunately.

However, as I stated above, I would keep the girl on the life support ( which is basically a ventilator) a bit longer, so either the family will adjust to this horrible situation or the nature will take it's course - if there is no brain function whatsoever the regulation of the organ functioning is absent and therefore the body won't survive much longer ( unless heroic measures are undertaken) so just leaving her on a vent won't prolong her life too much.. The hospital does not have the legal and moral requirement fro the heroic measures.

 

[Noomi]

Libs won a big victory. A judge ordered her off life support despite the wishes of the parents

Because she is brain dead.

 

[Noomi]

Like how much they wanted Teri schiavo to be killed and mutilated in an autopsy?


Monday rally planned for brain-dead Oakland girl - SFGate

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

That's YOUR battle cry. We value human life.

Except if that human life is black and on welfare.

 

[Noomi]

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

I agree no one wants to be left with a huge debt. However, let's hypothetically say that I had cancer and the only way for me to survive was to undergo chemotherapy. Unfortunately though, my insurance company did not cover this specific chemo. Should I forget the chemo and not incur a huge debt?

If given the choice, I believe most of us would gladly undergo whatever medical procedures would be needed to save human life regardless the cost. I personally would rather be alive with a debt, than deceased and debt free.

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

 

[mskafka]

by that angle that is reasonable to question what the husband did. Since pregnancy is usually a factor in effective CPR if the husband is claiming he successfully resuscitated her ( which is unprovable without monitoring) then either he is simply mistaken and she never was in cardiac arrest, but severely hypotensive ( which I think is the issue) or he is not telling the full truth ( kind of unlikely for me, but one never knows)

I have seen plenty cardiac arrests and the ones secondary to PE are usually not able to resuscitate unless a patient is basically already in the OR.

I've NEVER seen a successful post-PE resuscitation; and like you...I've seen plenty of them. 2 of the 3 services I worked for, were in very rural areas-where 20-minute response times were not uncommon. First responders in those situations, were rare at best.

I don't think so, but my objection is mostly not on when the brain activity appears but on the possibility of reliable detection - it is not possible by nowadays technology and invasive monitoring is too dangerous. not even talking about detection of any abnormality.

My stepfather was born with Tetralogy of Fallot, underwent three procedures by age 6, and wasn't expected to live past 20. Mom got pregnant, in 1989; and because of SF's history, the pregnancy was considered high-risk, from the beginning. They were told, in 1989, that ToF could be diagnosed and repaired, in utero. Sadly, she miscarried near the end of the 1st trimester.

"Normal CPR." I didn't catch that. Using the word "normal" in healthcare in any setting, is like playing Russian Roulette. But I would assume that "normal CPR" would be the standards set by the AHA.; and I don't recall a different compression depth during pregnancy, in ACLS, AMLS, PHTLS- but if feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I've actually seen ABNORMAL CPR and unorthodox resuscitation efforts-like throwing a pail of water, on an unconscious patient...in an attempt to rouse him. Heard this rationale TWICE, in my EMS career.

Oh, if the walls of ambulances and hospitals could talk.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Is human life worth less than the almighty dollar?

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

Feel free to find me anyone in this country that has been left destitute by medical bills. It should be easy, unless, of course, everyone that sneers at the claim that medical bills cause more bankruptcies than anything else are right.

What a stupid thing to say. The biggest cause of bankruptcy is medical bills. People lose a lot more than their money. They lose their lives.

To the right, money is worth way more than a lousy human life - especially if its a child. They don't vote, you know.

 

[S.J.]

Why do Republicans care? Do you know how much money that costs? What happened to "let him die"? Or is it only the brain dead they want to "save"? Course, if they are brain dead, they are already gone.

That's YOUR battle cry. We value human life.

Except if that human life is black and on welfare.

Really? Then why are most of the abortion clinics (supported and run by liberals) located in poor black areas? And why do blacks (who vote 95% for Democrats) have the most abortions? And why is it that the liberals all want the plug pulled on the black girl?

 

[S.J.]

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

Feel free to find me anyone in this country that has been left destitute by medical bills. It should be easy, unless, of course, everyone that sneers at the claim that medical bills cause more bankruptcies than anything else are right.

What a stupid thing to say. The biggest cause of bankruptcy is medical bills. People lose a lot more than their money. They lose their lives.

To the right, money is worth way more than a lousy human life - especially if its a child. They don't vote, you know.

What a stupid thing to say. Bankruptcy causes death?

 

[Vox]

by that angle that is reasonable to question what the husband did. Since pregnancy is usually a factor in effective CPR if the husband is claiming he successfully resuscitated her ( which is unprovable without monitoring) then either he is simply mistaken and she never was in cardiac arrest, but severely hypotensive ( which I think is the issue) or he is not telling the full truth ( kind of unlikely for me, but one never knows)

I have seen plenty cardiac arrests and the ones secondary to PE are usually not able to resuscitate unless a patient is basically already in the OR.

I've NEVER seen a successful post-PE resuscitation; and like you...I've seen plenty of them. 2 of the 3 services I worked for, were in very rural areas-where 20-minute response times were not uncommon. First responders in those situations, were rare at best.

I agree with that. The only theoretically possible way to resuscitate such a patient is to immediately go on bypass and cut the clot off. PE is not always causing cardiac arrest, but if it is - that's it.
In this case I think it might have been massive but not caused arrest, but severe prolonged hypotension.

I don't think so, but my objection is mostly not on when the brain activity appears but on the possibility of reliable detection - it is not possible by nowadays technology and invasive monitoring is too dangerous. not even talking about detection of any abnormality.

My stepfather was born with Tetralogy of Fallot, underwent three procedures by age 6, and wasn't expected to live past 20. Mom got pregnant, in 1989; and because of SF's history, the pregnancy was considered high-risk, from the beginning. They were told, in 1989, that ToF could be diagnosed and repaired, in utero. Sadly, she miscarried near the end of the 1st trimester.

"Normal CPR." I didn't catch that. Using the word "normal" in healthcare in any setting, is like playing Russian Roulette. But I would assume that "normal CPR" would be the standards set by the AHA.; and I don't recall a different compression depth during pregnancy, in ACLS, AMLS, PHTLS- but if feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not talking about resuscitating technique. it is the ratio of the flow in the placenta and cerebrum of the fetus measured in the study from your link. The mention that they compared the figures gathered from the 13 pregnant women who were carrying the babies with inborn heart anomalies and compared them to normal ones, but I could not find what "normal" means.

I've actually seen ABNORMAL CPR and unorthodox resuscitation efforts-like throwing a pail of water, on an unconscious patient...in an attempt to rouse him. Heard this rationale TWICE, in my EMS career.

Oh, if the walls of ambulances and hospitals could talk.

I was talking about different CPR

The cerebral-to-placental resistance ratio (CPR) and MCA pulsatility index (PI) Z-scores for GA were calculated

....

Compared with subjects with normal CPR, those with CPR < 1 (n = 7) had lower mean BSID cognitive scores (91.4 ± 4.8 vs. 99.2 ± 3.8, P = 0.008)

 

[novasteve]

I think that's what they call a strawman.

AKA, ask someone who has literally been left destitute by medical bills.

I agree no one wants to be left with a huge debt. However, let's hypothetically say that I had cancer and the only way for me to survive was to undergo chemotherapy. Unfortunately though, my insurance company did not cover this specific chemo. Should I forget the chemo and not incur a huge debt?

If given the choice, I believe most of us would gladly undergo whatever medical procedures would be needed to save human life regardless the cost. I personally would rather be alive with a debt, than deceased and debt free.

If the chemo didn't work, and you died, the bills would be passed on to your family - your kids - to pay. Would you be happy to leave your family millions of dollars in debt?

Debt isn't inheritable