Will an Obama Presidency be just as divisive between the right & left?

[chloe]

I always support the choice my country makes whether its someone I voted for or not. I don't like Palin but if she got elected I would deal with it the same as I have in the past with others I didn't want in office. If we turned into a socialist country and lost our freeedom for Capitalism that would be something different. I love Democracy. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are my inalienable rights.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes as a matter of fact in circumstances like those guards were in I bet officers did not show up late at night to check on SHIT. If orders were given why is not one of them made the claim? Why weren't any other guards doing it? Why just that one small group of guards?

If they had been ordered there would be evidence. The Col got hammered because of the failure of the Command to police itself and provide proper leadership.

Except night exersizes at night you never found any officer doing much of anything and in the field the Division staff Major and above did not even COME to the exersizes. The single Officer on dury at Battalion or Division never left his office to check on shit.

At night officers go home , to bed or to party. They do not show up at a prison ward to check on the night shift.

Are you sure you served? The privates did point fingers at higher ups and some heads did roll over abu grabe. But no one signifigant.

We now know that chaney, ashcroft, rove, bush and rice discussed torture in the oval office. Ashcroft even was quoted as saying "my god history is going to judge us for this decision to torture........"

Don't play dumb. You do know ppl in the hague/europe want to charge rumsfeld with war crimes? A lot like hitler and his henchmen.

 

[sealybobo]

I personally don't buy into the conspiracy theory that torture goes all the way to the Bush administration, but I do think there was a serious lack of monitoring on the part of the US military and there should be punishments handed out to people other then the privates who directly partook in the action. You mentioned the colonel got hammered? What exactly do you mean by that? Was he court marshaled or just chastised? I just think the military did a poor job of handling the situation and there we others that deserved to be blamed to the actions that took place.

Then you have a very short memory. The bush team did support torture. Don't you remember once they were caught the argument shifted to what is technically torture? Cia came in and tortured right in front of the troops. We shipped off a canadian found in afgan to a 3rd world country and tortured them there.

And didn't even mccain flip flop on torture? Did you really forget this time period? Short term memory problems much?

 

[sealybobo]

I always support the choice my country makes whether its someone I voted for or not. I don't like Palin but if she got elected I would deal with it the same as I have in the past with others I didn't want in office. If we turned into a socialist country and lost our freeedom for Capitalism that would be something different. I love Democracy. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are my inalienable rights.

Yes, I call you sheeple.

I'm sure you were cool with bush v gore where the supreme court ruled to stop the recount and give florida to bush. They didn't think we could take the two weeks it would take to recount. In light of the last 8 yrs, maybe we should have taken the time.

You must be under informed if you can stand the thought of 4 more yrs of the same. Or if you believe mccain will be different than bush.
$10 bill a month in iraq.

 

[elvis]

Maybe there where. That's why UN weapons inspectors were there. They didn't have wmd's when bush invaded. Are you still suggesting they sent them to syria?

And Clinton didn't invade, bush did. Without a plan I might add.

I actually go one step further and suggest the whole thing went according to plan. They didn't finish the job in tora bora and spread us thin. That way they could bring in blackwater and haloburton, all at the taxpayers expense.

Chaney made a speech yrs ago telling exactly what would happen if we invaded. Yet he said the exact opposite when he was selling us un going in. Then said they didn't know it would be so tough.

Then they showed signs of fucking up progress almost so it would prolong the occupation. Why would they want to end that cash cow?

But i'm just a conspiracy theorist.

Meanwhile they are conspiring against us.

no. i don't think they're in syria. clinton agreed with the invasion when bush invaded. and yeah, you have quite a theory there.

 

[elvis]

Hey, on john stewart Daily Show he said, referring to palin's "real" america comments, that bin ladin is mad that he didn't hit "real" america when he bombed ny. lol.

that's not funny. i really hope stewart wouldn't sink that low.

 

[chloe]

Yes, I call you sheeple.

I'm sure you were cool with bush v gore where the supreme court ruled to stop the recount and give florida to bush. They didn't think we could take the two weeks it would take to recount. In light of the last 8 yrs, maybe we should have taken the time.

You must be under informed if you can stand the thought of 4 more yrs of the same. Or if you believe mccain will be different than bush.
$10 bill a month in iraq.

No I have just lived through different Presidencys, some good some not so good. I understand its the Electoral vote that counts in electing the President, and so its important to pay attention to locals you elect for House & Senate. I don't have to have eveything go my way. So even during bad presidencys I still feel lucky I don't live in other countries where it is much worse, even places where there is no vote. If my country was no longer a democracy and no longer allowed freedoms men and women have right now like the right to work hard and earn your own way with endless possiblities no, I might not be able to support that. Also I have never said who I am voting for or what Party I am. I am just answering with my personal opinions on whats important to me on these topics. As far as divisive goes maybe your interpretation of divisive is different then mine.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Are you sure you served? The privates did point fingers at higher ups and some heads did roll over abu grabe. But no one signifigant.

We now know that chaney, ashcroft, rove, bush and rice discussed torture in the oval office. Ashcroft even was quoted as saying "my god history is going to judge us for this decision to torture........"

Don't play dumb. You do know ppl in the hague/europe want to charge rumsfeld with war crimes? A lot like hitler and his henchmen.

Bullshit. But then your delusional little world does sound and work different then everyone elses.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I personally don't buy into the conspiracy theory that torture goes all the way to the Bush administration, but I do think there was a serious lack of monitoring on the part of the US military and there should be punishments handed out to people other then the privates who directly partook in the action. You mentioned the colonel got hammered? What exactly do you mean by that? Was he court marshaled or just chastised? I just think the military did a poor job of handling the situation and there we others that deserved to be blamed to the actions that took place.

As I recall the Col and the General both got relieved of command for command failures. Ending careers. The General was a National Guard Officer and a woman, I assume the Col was also National Guard.

 

[DiveCon]

that's not funny. i really hope stewart wouldn't sink that low.

Stewart is a piece of slime
don't expect the high road from him
you will be disappointed every time

 

[Gunny]

I think Obama would be better to do that. I'm not just saying that because I agree with him more than I agree with McCain, though. And had it just been McCain, I might have gone with him. (well, at least McCain 2K) The problem is that Palin's even more divisive than Bush/Cheney. She's unacceptable to a good chunk of the country and is even dividing your republican party. And the way McCain's run his campaign of late, I'm not even sure that it would be easy for HIM to act in a bi-partisan fashion anymore.

*yawn*

Palin is only more divisive to leftwingers like you, and you project what is unacceptable to YOU onto "agood chunk of the country."

It isn't even surprising that you expect McCain to be bipartisan while it's okay for Obama to be a flaming socialist.

You got one thing almost right, but for the wrong reason. McCain is what is unacceptable to conservatives, not Palin.

 

[editec]

Please. Clinton was about the best Democrat the republicans could ever have hoped for. A moderate southerner, who gave the GOP 60% of what they wanted, from welfare reform, to NAFTA, to deregulation.

And they still treated him like a communist and smeared him for 8 years.

That's WHY they hated him so...he took away their thunder, didn't he?

 

[editec]

*yawn*

You got one thing almost right, but for the wrong reason. McCain is what is unacceptable to conservatives, not Palin.

I believe that is true of the grass roots (know-nothing except partisanship) neo-cons to be sure. We've got plenty of examples of those folks right here on this board.

But huge number of long time older conservatives, people who basically were around when the current conservative movement started, people who were strong supporters of Reagan, for example, and who actually understand what the word CONSERVATIVE STANDS FOR, are actually openly supporting Obama, now, in part, because of Palin.


I think those people are really doing by supporting Obama, is calling for a more honestly CONSERVATIVE Republican party. One that recognizes that bad government is the problem, not government itself.

We'll see, of course, but I suspect that Obama is going to win hands down

Many honest conservatives are sick of the devisive mehtodology of Karl Rove and the Neo-cons.

I think that they are offended by the insensibilites of the neo-conservatives who apparently are so partisan that they don't care if the candidate is competent to assume office.

Here's a list of folks whose conservative credentials are unassailable.

They are openly supporting Obama.

Mkae of it what you will, but I think these people are the Republicans who have always stood for ideas, and integrity and who are sickened by what they see happening to THEIR PARTY.

Republicans and former Republicans endorsing Obama





Ken Adelman, former diplomat and member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board[21]

• Radio Host Michael Smerconish [22]
• Fmr. Congressman Jim Leach (R-IA).[23]
• Fmr. Senator Lincoln Chafee (R-RI).[24]
• Former publisher of National Review, Wick Allison[25][26]
• Jack Antaramian, Florida real estate developer and Bush fundraiser[27]
• Fmr. Mayor of Los Angeles Richard Riordan (R-CA).[28]
• Julie Nixon Eisenhower, daughter of former President Richard Nixon, granddaughter-in law of Dwight D. Eisenhower[29]
• Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of Dwight D. Eisenhower and president of the Eisenhower Institute.[30][29][31]
• Lilibet Hagel, wife of Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)[32][33]
• Rita E. Hauser, Former White House intelligence advisor for George W. Bush [23]
• Larry Hunter, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Policy Innovation and Chief Economist for the Free Enterprise Fund, former Reagan policy advisor[34]
• Rear Admiral John Hutson, USN (ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and the current dean and president of Franklin Pierce Law Center.[35]
• Legal scholar Douglas Kmiec[36]
• Tricia Mosley, former staffer to Senator Strom Thurmond[37]
• Paul O'Neill, United States Secretary of the Treasury from 2001-02 under George W. Bush[38]
• Colin Powell, former Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[17]
• David Ruder, Chairman of the Securities & Exchange Commission under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush [39]
• Frank Schaeffer, pro-life advocate and the son of evangelist Francis Schaeffer. [40]
• Mayor Lou Thieblemont of Camp Hill, Penn. Thieblemont switched his party registration from Republican to Democrat so that he could vote for Obama in the Pennsylvania primary. [41]
• Fmr. Governor and Senator Lowell Weicker (R-CT).[42]
• Fmr. Governor Linwood Holton (R-VA), father-in-law of current Governor Tim Kaine (D-VA)[43]
• Actor and former Bush supporter Dennis Hopper[44]
• Fairbanks North Star Borough mayor Jim Whitaker endorsed Obama and delivered a speech on the second day of the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.

[edit] Support for Obama from scholars, authors and bloggers affiliated with conservatism

• Andrew Bacevich, Professor of International Relations at Boston University.[45]
• Christopher Buckley, author, son of legendary conservative William F. Buckley, Jr. [46]
• Francis Fukuyama, author, key figure in the rise of neoconservatism.[47]
• Christopher Hitchens, author and essayist loosely affiliated with neo-conservative foreign policy.[48]
• Dorothy King, archeologist and conservative blogger.[49][50]
• Andrew Sullivan, libertarian commentator.[51]

 

[DiamondDave]

Will an Obama Presidency be just as divisive between the right & left?

When you would have a president that is that far from the middle, I fully believe it will make the country that much more divisive ... he's an extremist... the most extreme left Senator in congress.... it would not be a good thing for the country

 

[sealybobo]

Bullshit. But then your delusional little world does sound and work different then everyone elses.

I think you put politics above your fellow soldiers. You allowed Bush to let them be punished for what he asked them to do.

"History Will not Judge this kindly" -- Torture Was Approved at Highest Levels of Bush Admin

Ashcroft quote when they sat in the Oval Office and discussed torture.

"History Will not Judge this kindly" -- Torture Was Approved at Highest Levels of Bush Admin | War on Iraq | AlterNet

Beginning in 2004, accounts of abuse, torture, sodomy[1] and homicide[2] of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (also known as Baghdad Correctional Facility) came to public attention. The acts were committed by some personnel of the 372nd Military Police Company of the United States Army together with additional American governmental agencies.[3] These additional agencies have been referred to as the OGA (Other Government Agencies), which is an often used euphemism for the Central Intelligence Agency.

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The U.S. Department of Defense removed seventeen soldiers and officers from duty, and seven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault and battery. Between May 2004 and September 2005, seven soldiers were convicted in courts martial, sentenced to federal prison time, and dishonorably discharged from service. Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, were sentenced to ten years and three years in prison, respectively, in trials ending on January 14, 2005 and September 26, 2005. The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

 

[sealybobo]

When you would have a president that is that far from the middle, I fully believe it will make the country that much more divisive ... he's an extremist... the most extreme left Senator in congress.... it would not be a good thing for the country

You are a tool. Name one far left thing Obama has said about the Iraq war, oil, the economy.

Did he say he's going to nationalize gas like Hugo Chavez? No. He's just going to stop speculation and gouging. If that's liberal, sign me up.

Is he going to cut defense spending at the expense of our national security? No. Considering half of defense spending is waste, I say there is room to work without being too liberal about it. Don't you?

Is he going to give the people more socialist money than Bush gave to the top 1% and the banks? I seriously doubt it. Bush spend enough that he could have given everyone welfare, but he only spent it on the top 1%. That's wealth redistribution.

As for the "bailout", I doubt those kinds of emergencies will be happening anymore once the GOP are run out of Washington.

 

[WillowTree]

I always support the choice my country makes whether its someone I voted for or not. I don't like Palin but if she got elected I would deal with it the same as I have in the past with others I didn't want in office. If we turned into a socialist country and lost our freeedom for Capitalism that would be something different. I love Democracy. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are my inalienable rights.

I used to be able to say that but after the way Bush was treated by the left and now witnessing the obvious transfer of that hatred onto McCain/Palin I in no way feel obligated to support the left in any way and that includes the Pres. I will not support Brock Obamalama, he will no be my president.

 

[DiamondDave]

You are a tool. Name one far left thing Obama has said about the Iraq war, oil, the economy.

Did he say he's going to nationalize gas like Hugo Chavez? No. He's just going to stop speculation and gouging. If that's liberal, sign me up.

Is he going to cut defense spending at the expense of our national security? No. Considering half of defense spending is waste, I say there is room to work without being too liberal about it. Don't you?

Is he going to give the people more socialist money than Bush gave to the top 1% and the banks? I seriously doubt it. Bush spend enough that he could have given everyone welfare, but he only spent it on the top 1%. That's wealth redistribution.

As for the "bailout", I doubt those kinds of emergencies will be happening anymore once the GOP are run out of Washington.

Soldiers targeting civilians and air raiding villages... I'd say that is pretty left wing moon-batty

Oil... thinking alternatives that are YEARS AND YEARS down the road for being viable in the quantities we need, is a solution for foreign oil dependence now or within the next 20 years??? Yep... that is pretty extreme and beholden to the enviro-nazis on the left wing..... funny he does not want to do all things possible and necessary to help dependence, only the things the enviro-nazis chant about

Does he want to nationalize? Certainly wants to start with healthcare... I would not be shocked to see him try and move that way on many other industries as well

And once again... I never supported the bailout whether it is/was Bush's idea, congress' idea or Stephen fucking Hawking's idea... but nice try

 

[rayboyusmc]

You are voting for a person and you do not even know their positions.

Well you sure know John's depending on what day it is.

 

[editec]

Maybe there where. That's why UN weapons inspectors were there. They didn't have wmd's when bush invaded. Are you still suggesting they sent them to syria?

And Clinton didn't invade, bush did. Without a plan I might add.

I actually go one step further and suggest the whole thing went according to plan. They didn't finish the job in tora bora and spread us thin. That way they could bring in blackwater and haloburton, all at the taxpayers expense.

Chaney made a speech yrs ago telling exactly what would happen if we invaded. Yet he said the exact opposite when he was selling us un going in. Then said they didn't know it would be so tough.

Then they showed signs of fucking up progress almost so it would prolong the occupation. Why would they want to end that cash cow?

But i'm just a conspiracy theorist.

Meanwhile they are conspiring against us.

Sage advise from the Bard, amigo...

They are the faction. O conspiracy,
Shamest thou to show thy dangerous brow by night,
When evils are most free? O, then by day
Where wilt thou find a cavern dark enough
To mask thy monstrous visage? Seek none, conspiracy;
Hide it in smiles and affability:
For if thou path, thy native semblance on,
Not Erebus itself were dim enough
To hide thee from prevention.