Why we need a public option!

[WillowTree]

Healthcare for all citizens is the responsibility of all people in a society. Having fair and equal healthcare when needed is NOT a privilege but a RIGHT as a member of society. We are all in this together or we are not. - quote from american christian society website
this is not talking about communism - about unity in community
it is not free - we pull our resorces together out of one flat rate income tax
yes, I know the gov. is out of controll - but in a better society this is how it should be done.
Unfortunately people are afraid of these programs because we are being ruled (very badly) and not governed

Your "rights" don't obligate me to pay for them.

as a member of a society you should want to help your fellow man and have unity while having the ability to keep your individual freedoms and dreams. I don't hear anyone wanting the firedepartment or police private - because we all recognize we need to pull together. no society will prosper with a everyman for himself or kill or be killed logo.

So You agree that EVERY member of society should PAY FEDERAL taxes and not just 50%? Correct?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Your "rights" don't obligate me to pay for them.

as a member of a society you should want to help your fellow man and have unity while having the ability to keep your individual freedoms and dreams. I don't hear anyone wanting the firedepartment or police private - because we all recognize we need to pull together. no society will prosper with a everyman for himself or kill or be killed logo.

Is that the same as government forcing me to pay for your health care?

Am I am I free if government keeps 50 or 60 percent of what I earn?

Yep. You're free. You can go to the store, travel to another country or continent; say or write what you please - within reason. You are free to vote out those who raise your taxes, but not those who raise the price of the food you eat or the gas you buy.

 

[The Rabbi]

CEO's can't build armies, declare war, print their own money, have their own laws, confiscate wealth involuntarily, etc etc.

I can't believe you would make such a silly comparison.

LOL, I can't believe you would go there. Did you consider Black Hawk, the sales of Bonds, the actions of preditory banks and and the horde of lawyers and lobbyists engaged in law making?
But that's the silly part of your criticism. We have some control over our government, we have much less control over the actions of a CEO, that's the point.

I don't know what "Black Hawk" is.
Black Water is the former name of a government contractor subject to U.S laws.
Selling bonds is not printing money.
Lawyers and lobbyists do not make their own laws. They work with lawmakers to do that.

Total fail. Utter and complete.

 

[bigtalker]

Healthcare for all citizens is the responsibility of all people in a society. Having fair and equal healthcare when needed is NOT a privilege but a RIGHT as a member of society. We are all in this together or we are not. - quote from american christian society website
this is not talking about communism - about unity in community
it is not free - we pull our resorces together out of one flat rate income tax
yes, I know the gov. is out of controll - but in a better society this is how it should be done.
Unfortunately people are afraid of these programs because we are being ruled (very badly) and not governed

From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Is that it, comrade?

I hate having some idiot tell me what my responsibility is to society.

i love it when some idiot quotes a small section of the bible trying to make it say something THEY want

 

[Immanuel]

Healthcare for all citizens is the responsibility of all people in a society. Having fair and equal healthcare when needed is NOT a privilege but a RIGHT as a member of society. We are all in this together or we are not. - quote from american christian society website
this is not talking about communism - about unity in community
it is not free - we pull our resorces together out of one flat rate income tax
yes, I know the gov. is out of controll - but in a better society this is how it should be done.
Unfortunately people are afraid of these programs because we are being ruled (very badly) and not governed

From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Is that it, comrade?

I hate having some idiot tell me what my responsibility is to society.

i love it when some idiot quotes a small section of the bible trying to make it say something THEY want

Ouch! This is going to sting.

For the record:

I believe the quote, "From each according to his ability to each according to his need" is from Karl Marx and I do not think it is in the Bible.

Just trying to help a little. But, you are going to hear about that one.

Immie

 

[Revere]

as a member of a society you should want to help your fellow man and have unity while having the ability to keep your individual freedoms and dreams. I don't hear anyone wanting the firedepartment or police private - because we all recognize we need to pull together. no society will prosper with a everyman for himself or kill or be killed logo.

Is that the same as government forcing me to pay for your health care?

Am I am I free if government keeps 50 or 60 percent of what I earn?

Yep. You're free. You can go to the store, travel to another country or continent; say or write what you please - within reason. You are free to vote out those who raise your taxes, but not those who raise the price of the food you eat or the gas you buy.

I can buy my food wherever I want. Someone will always sell me the same thing for less.

Same with gas.

Does government work that way if I give them 60% of what I make?

 

[Bern80]

This is one more post 'paved' with cliches, straw man arguments, and fear mongering.
I've suggested this before, but I will again:
We have control over the government, it's called a vote; we do not have control over the boardroom. We cannot vote out a CEO**.

It is sad when standing up for principles becomes cliche. CLEARLY Obamacare is an infringement on freedom. That shouldn't be even open to debate. The only question is whether that is an acceptable infringement or not. To you apparently it is. On another issue at another time it may not be. When that time comes your hypocrisy will show through. I'm sorry but this is not a direct democracy, for good reason. Simply voting was not intended to be the only means to keep government in check or for you to get your way. This government has rules laid out in the constitution. If you don't like them move to another country or go through the constitutional process of changing it.

Health insurance companies make life or death decisions everyday, based not on life or death, but on their bottom line.
I'm not advocating a government takeover of the health insurance industry, nor do I believe a public option will force private insurance out of business.
I believe providing PREVENTATIVE healthcare to each citizen as a birthright is the proper and practical thing to do. It makes sense and cents - even for the insurance industry.
Much disease is preventable, such is the goal I support. Education, preventative medicine and early detection will reduce the need for private insurance to pay claims and will mitiage the pain and suffering of our people.
It will in fact reduce the costs of days of work missed by employees, helping the whole range of business and industry in our country.
A public option, offering a basic medical insurance will compete with private sector insurance driving costs down, but if limited by law to emergency treatment, costs will go down and private sector insurance can thrive by offering more comprehensive options and greater choices.

And honestly I may not be oppossed to something like that. But as always the one issue I have with it is on principle. If a certain level of health care is a birthright, what is your argument against making a certain level of housing or food a birthright as well?

** One might argue the 'Market' will cause prices to go down and service to go up, so in fact we vote with our pocket book. If true, why hasn't this happened?

Because there isn't much of a market where health insurance is concerned. I can't shop for a better deal in another state and the government pretty much tells insurers what they have to put in their plans. What a person may choose to have in their insurance and what options are actually available are grossly differenent. Think outside the box. If YOU got to choose what would your insurance cover. Catastrophic illness only? No presciption coverage? A business makes money by doing what it's customers want. The health insurance industry is a broken market. Not only can it not offer what customers want because of the endless government red tape, because of the way the industry is set up such that insurance is mostly provided through your employer, the customers themselves are basically apathetic about what they are buying.

 

[Trajan]

Nearly 59 million lack health insurance: CDC - Yahoo! News

Call it what you will, a public option providing free preventative health care is cost-effective, providing long term benefits to individuals and the nation as a whole.
The effort by some, in particular those who hope to develop publc policy along ideological guidelines, will put even those with excellent private insurance at risk should a pandemic or worse come to America.

from the link;

LONG-TERM UNINSURED

More than 80 percent were adults aged 18 to 64. People over 65 are eligible for Medicare, the federal health insurance plan for the elderly.

Frieden said more people also went for a year or more with no health insurance -- from 27.5 million in 2008 to 30.4 million in the first quarter of 2010. "That's an increase of 3 million in chronically uninsured adults," he said.

"Now, the data also allow us to debunk two myths about health care coverage," Frieden added.

"The first myth is that it's only the poor who are uninsured. In fact, half of the uninsured are over the poverty level and one in three adults under 65 in the middle income range -- defined arbitrarily here between $44,000 and $65,000 a year for a family of four -- were uninsured at some point in the year."

And Frieden said many people argue that only the healthy risk going without health insurance.

"In fact ... more than two out of five individuals who are uninsured at some point during the past year had one or more chronic diseases and this is based on just a partial list of chronic diseases," he said.

For example, 15 million of the people who went without health insurance had high blood pressure, diabetes or asthma.

People with such conditions often end up in emergency rooms and require treatment, paid for by hospitals or taxpayers, that is far more expensive than getting proper preventive care would have been.

"If you have diabetes and you don't get needed care in the short term you end up in the intensive care unit," Frieden said.

looking at the info I highlighted, what do we infer ?


that 2 out of 5 of that % of the 50 million who do not have coverage didn't becasue they choose not to and probably should not have due to issues they had, they did choose not to have the coverage for the same reason however they were young and felt the odds were with them, not that that interpretation is made here, why should it be, nor do they state how badly these 'chronic 'aliments high blood pressure etc. are manifest, that they just "have it", explanation is not the thrust of the article clearly.

....( funny too how that number, 50 Million, like illegal pop. shrinks or expands based on what topic the left is addressing and how they need to frame it)

notice that the next sentence of the article employs the old Fear tactic, no data, just; " they gots bad stuff goin' on wit dem and needs da doctor "!!!! Often is not defined, I was wondering how the statists would spin-dry and attempt to motivate the 24-35 set of non coverage purchasers.

que the witch rubbing his hands together in a dark room around a cauldron of bubbling blood...


"yes, little ones come closer...hehehehehehe... let us debunk the dark Myths of health care........yesssss, the mythical mystical nefarious secrets of the chronically un- insured .....fear them! feat the priest!!!....

this is exactly why Reuters now has all of the reputation of a ......oh, world wide mslsd.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDZCEkVPQRE&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Oddball]

Healthcare for all citizens is the responsibility of all people in a society. Having fair and equal healthcare when needed is NOT a privilege but a RIGHT as a member of society. We are all in this together or we are not. - quote from american christian society website
this is not talking about communism - about unity in community
it is not free - we pull our resorces together out of one flat rate income tax
yes, I know the gov. is out of controll - but in a better society this is how it should be done.
Unfortunately people are afraid of these programs because we are being ruled (very badly) and not governed

From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Is that it, comrade?

I hate having some idiot tell me what my responsibility is to society.

i love it when some idiot quotes a small section of the bible trying to make it say something THEY want

In what section of the Bible is Karl Marx?

 

[Liberty]

self-defense is a right. Should the government provide me a firearm? Just because something can be argued as a "right" does not mean that government has obligation to provide it, nor does it mean government have a RIGHT or...power for that matter, to provide it...

Assuming the "right" actually has a physical manifestation, that is.

Anyway, the logic of UHC does not pan out in a free society. It is that simple...

If it did not conflict with the idea of a free society then I am sure everyone would love it. Like if all doctors were 99.9999% success rate robots.

But we are humans...and those of principle and understanding actually do feel for those who break their leg but have no insurance or money...but that is still not reason enough to abandon liberty.

 

[antagon]

the passage of a congressional legislation supersedes the federalist papers.

are you saying that judges do not look to the federalist papers for guidance on what the wording of the constitution means and instead are and should be ignored completely when discussing the purpose of certain phrases written in the constitution?

no, i mean to say that jurisprudence has come a long way away from merely pouring over the federalist papers. the constitution itself and precedents on challenges to law passed in congress in the past are more likely to have a bearing on any matter brought before the court.

 

[Liberty]

the passage of a congressional legislation supersedes the federalist papers.

are you saying that judges do not look to the federalist papers for guidance on what the wording of the constitution means and instead are and should be ignored completely when discussing the purpose of certain phrases written in the constitution?

no, i mean to say that jurisprudence has come a long way away from merely pouring over the federalist papers. the constitution itself and precedents on challenges to law passed in congress in the past are more likely to have a bearing on any matter brought before the court.

so are you affirming that the federalist papers are a useful tool in deciphering the grammar of the 18th century as well as the meaning of certain provisions in the constitution that modern scholars may have differing views on? Or is it better to just "wing it" and decide based on what you simply "think" it means?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Nearly 59 million lack health insurance: CDC - Yahoo! News

Call it what you will, a public option providing free preventative health care is cost-effective, providing long term benefits to individuals and the nation as a whole.
The effort by some, in particular those who hope to develop publc policy along ideological guidelines, will put even those with excellent private insurance at risk should a pandemic or worse come to America.

Fucktard post of the day. Free? FREE????? Are the doctors and nurses working for $0 these days?

Free = make somebody else pay. Utter bullshit...

 

[antagon]

are you saying that judges do not look to the federalist papers for guidance on what the wording of the constitution means and instead are and should be ignored completely when discussing the purpose of certain phrases written in the constitution?

no, i mean to say that jurisprudence has come a long way away from merely pouring over the federalist papers. the constitution itself and precedents on challenges to law passed in congress in the past are more likely to have a bearing on any matter brought before the court.

so are you affirming that the federalist papers are a useful tool in deciphering the grammar of the 18th century as well as the meaning of certain provisions in the constitution that modern scholars may have differing views on? Or is it better to just "wing it" and decide based on what you simply "think" it means?

yeah. i can affirm that. i have read several groundshaking opinions of the court and some have drawn on the federalist. of the tens of thousands of cases which the supreme court has heard in its history, over 300 have referenced the federalist, so they have their role. i doubt any courts have have 'winged it' with respect to interpreting the constitution. i think people forget that no matter how wacky politicians and judges may seem, that they take themselves and their work seriously. the decisions are some of the best considered and written essays one could read.

 

[Wry Catcher]

CEO's can't build armies, declare war, print their own money, have their own laws, confiscate wealth involuntarily, etc etc.

I can't believe you would make such a silly comparison.

LOL, I can't believe you would go there. Did you consider Black Hawk, the sales of Bonds, the actions of preditory banks and and the horde of lawyers and lobbyists engaged in law making?
But that's the silly part of your criticism. We have some control over our government, we have much less control over the actions of a CEO, that's the point.

I don't know what "Black Hawk" is.
Black Water is the former name of a government contractor subject to U.S laws.
Selling bonds is not printing money.
Lawyers and lobbyists do not make their own laws. They work with lawmakers to do that.

Total fail. Utter and complete.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[shintao]

Only about 12 million American citizens who want health insurance can't afford it.

Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want.

Your argument is a loose as a 99 year old man with bowel problems.

1.Show proof that, "Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want."

 

[shintao]

we have a means-tested public option. we dont 'need' to expand that.

Your argument is weak.

1.Show proof that, "we have a means-tested public option"

2.Show proof that, "we dont 'need' to expand that."

 

[Revere]

Only about 12 million American citizens who want health insurance can't afford it.

Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want.

Your argument is a loose as a 99 year old man with bowel problems.

1.Show proof that, "Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want."

They can't give barely tens of millions of seniors a minimal retirement benefit.

And they've had eighty years to make it work.

 

[shintao]

Nearly 59 million lack health insurance: CDC - Yahoo! News

Call it what you will, a public option providing free preventative health care is cost-effective, providing long term benefits to individuals and the nation as a whole.
The effort by some, in particular those who hope to develop publc policy along ideological guidelines, will put even those with excellent private insurance at risk should a pandemic or worse come to America.

Free?

The word should be "available."

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Only about 12 million American citizens who want health insurance can't afford it.

Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want.

Your argument is a loose as a 99 year old man with bowel problems.

1.Show proof that, "Government can't guarantee 310,000,000 people all the health care they want."

Well, considering SSI, Medicaid, Medicare, etc are all broke... there ya go. Everytime we blink asshats like yourself are demanding more free services off the backs of others.

Just another liberal parasite.