Why there is No Republican Plan to Replace Obamacare

[Seymour Flops]

That is exactly wrong. Comparing Obamacare to Home insurance, you would NOT be allowed to buy a house without insurance (or pay the individual mandate, same thing).

Under Obamacare, It is not mandatory to have health insurance or pay the mandate. That part was repealed.

People are not legally mandated to buy home insurance, and they cannot buy it after a hurticane blows down the house.

 

[Mashmont]

None with a chance to succeed, anyway. There have been some plans offered that never went anywhere.

Compare Proposals to Replace The Affordable Care Act | KFF

President Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress have committed to repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act (ACA). How do their replacement proposals compare to the ACA? How do they compare to each other? Includes the Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson amendment (introduced 9/13/2017) as...

www.kff.org

Published: Sept 18, 2017

In 2017, President Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress unsuccessfully pursued several efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. How did their replacement proposals compare to the ACA? How did they compare to each other?

Plans available for comparison:

• Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson Amendment – Updated 9.25.17 (PDF)
• The Health Care Freedom Act, 2017 (PDF)
• The Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 (PDF) – Updated 7.20.17
• Obamacare Repeal Reconciliation Act of 2017 (PDF)
• The Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 (PDF) – Updated 7.13.17. Includes Cruz amendment.
• The American Health Care Act, as passed by the House of Representatives on May 4, 2017 (PDF)
• The Affordable Care Act, 2010 (PDF)

The problem is this:

Any Republican plan to "replace Obamacare" would have to be a plan very much like Obamacare, but which follows Republican principals. Those are contradictory requirements that cannot be simultaneously fulfilled.

We have to remember what Obamacare is in both purpose and design. Jonathan Gruber gave the only honest answer by drunkenly saying the quiet part out loud (more than onece):

It is a scheme to transfer wealth from the healthy to the unhealthy. The healthy pay far larger premiums in order for insurance companies to survive the requirment that they accept patients already sick with expensive maladies.

What Gruber left out is that much of the funding to the unhealthy comes from borrowed money and printed money used for the subsidies. The overwhelming majority of the marketplace premiums are paid for by government, not the individual.

The current healthy taxpayer/policy purchaser pays a large part of the burden, but the rest will be borne by most of the grandchildren of the healthy and by some of the grandchildren of the unhealthy.

Another plan that accomplishes that wealth transfer cannot follow expressed (if not followed) Republican principals like low taxes, fiscal responsibility, freedom of choice, and individual responsibility.

The solution to Obamacare is no Obamacare so we can go back to the far lower premiums and freedom of choice that existed prior to that legislation being passed under a cover of lies. There is not the political will to repeal it, and probably never will be.

Most voters and nearly all politicians prefer pain later to pain now. As Keynes himself taught us, "In the long run we are all dead." Not our grandchildren or their grandchildren, of course, but Keynes at least is dead and thus safe from the economic disaster his policies are sure to lead to.

So, the Republicans can do nothing but tweak Obamacare to get rid of the worst of its worst excesses. Allowing the COVID Suplementary Subsdies to expire as provided for by those who voted them in is a baby step in that direction. So is barring illegal aliens who were granted "a legal status" en masse by the previous administration from the subsidies and from Medicaid.

It's called the private sector. $4T wasted on the 0bamcare boondoggle, and guess what. It needs subsidized. Bernie Sanders said the same thing about the failed Social Security. Subsidize it off the backs of the rich. Media goes right along with it, keeping the young people dumb about the harm of Communism.

 

[alang1216]

Under Obamacare, It is not mandatory to have health insurance or pay the mandate. That part was repealed.

People are not legally mandated to buy home insurance, and they cannot buy it after a hurticane blows down the house.

So the GOP repealed the mandate and now you complain about how Obamacare works? Reminds me of the kid, charged with murdering his parents, who goes before the judge and asks for leniency because he is an orphan.

 

[Seymour Flops]

So the GOP repealed the mandate and now you complain about how Obamacare works? Reminds me of the kid, charged with murdering his parents, who goes before the judge and asks for leniency because he is an orphan.

If you knew that the Mandate was repealed, why did you say that paying the mandate is the same as having healthcare insurance? Just lying? Very common method of Obamacare defenders.

That is the kind of thing that happens when your party waits until it finally has control of both houses and the presidency and pushes to legislation with zero votes from the other side of the aisle.

The "mandate" had way too many loopholes to be considered a true mandate. My favorite was that people in the country illegally did not have to comply with the mandate. Free healthcare for illegals, as the Democrats said they wanted.

The ACA is a disaster with or without the mandate. The subsidies are nothing more than gifts to large donors to democrats.

What did you think when you heard Jonathan Gruber, talk about using tortured language and counting on the stupidity of the American voter? Did you think 'oh that architect guy doesn't know what he's talking about?'

Did you believe Obama when he said, "if you like your policy, you can keep your policy. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?"

 

[Concerned American]

Correct but that is exactly the way insurance is supposed to work. Everyone shares the risk so healthcare is there if and when you need it. When you buy a house the mortgage company forces you to get insurance on it. Is that shifting funds from the good houses to the damaged houses?

If you don't have a mortgage, you're not required to have insurance. That's the difference unless somebody loaned you money on your life. Why do people have to pay penalties because they don't have health insurance?

 

[alang1216]

If you knew that the Mandate was repealed, why did you say that paying the mandate is the same as having healthcare insurance? Just lying? Very common method of Obamacare defenders.

I was merely explaining the original purpose of the mandate.

That is the kind of thing that happens when your party waits until it finally has control of both houses and the presidency and pushes to legislation with zero votes from the other side of the aisle.

True, it is the kind of thing that leads to a gov't shutdown.

The "mandate" had way too many loopholes to be considered a true mandate. My favorite was that people in the country illegally did not have to comply with the mandate. Free healthcare for illegals, as the Democrats said they wanted.

I didn't know that and it sounds like BS to me.

ACA Mandate and Eligibility

• Exempt from Mandate: Undocumented immigrants were not required to have health coverage under the ACA's individual mandate and were eligible for an exemption for "exempt noncitizens". Therefore, they did not face a tax penalty for being uninsured. (Note: The federal individual mandate penalty has since been eliminated).
• Ineligible for ACA/Medicaid: Under longstanding federal law, individuals who are not lawfully present are not eligible to enroll in federally funded health coverage programs, including Medicaid, CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program), Medicare, or to purchase subsidized coverage through the ACA Marketplaces.

The ACA is a disaster with or without the mandate. The subsidies are nothing more than gifts to large donors to democrats.

More BS.

What did you think when you heard Jonathan Gruber, talk about using tortured language and counting on the stupidity of the American voter? Did you think 'oh that architect guy doesn't know what he's talking about?'

I think it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about. From 2009 to 2010, Gruber served as a technical consultant to the Obama Administration and worked with both the administration and U.S. Congress to help craft the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, often referred to as the ACA or "Obamacare". The Act was signed into law in March 2010, and Gruber has been described as an "architect", "writer", and "consultant" of the legislation.

Did you believe Obama when he said, "if you like your policy, you can keep your policy. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?"

I did. He is not the first President to be overly optimistic about his policies.

 

[alang1216]

If you don't have a mortgage, you're not required to have insurance. That's the difference unless somebody loaned you money on your life. Why do people have to pay penalties because they don't have health insurance?

Because if they walk into an ER they get treated. Insurance or not. Should children have insurance even if their parents are stupid?

 

[Concerned American]

I was merely explaining the original purpose of the mandate.

True, it is the kind of thing that leads to a gov't shutdown.


I didn't know that and it sounds like BS to me.

ACA Mandate and Eligibility

• Exempt from Mandate: Undocumented immigrants were not required to have health coverage under the ACA's individual mandate and were eligible for an exemption for "exempt noncitizens". Therefore, they did not face a tax penalty for being uninsured. (Note: The federal individual mandate penalty has since been eliminated).
• Ineligible for ACA/Medicaid: Under longstanding federal law, individuals who are not lawfully present are not eligible to enroll in federally funded health coverage programs, including Medicaid, CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program), Medicare, or to purchase subsidized coverage through the ACA Marketplaces.

More BS.


I think it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about. From 2009 to 2010, Gruber served as a technical consultant to the Obama Administration and worked with both the administration and U.S. Congress to help craft the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, often referred to as the ACA or "Obamacare". The Act was signed into law in March 2010, and Gruber has been described as an "architect", "writer", and "consultant" of the legislation.


I did. He is not the first President to be overly optimistic about his policies.

Some states have maintained the individual mandate with penalties.
Currently, the states with an individual mandate for healthcare are California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont, and the District of Columbia. These states require residents to maintain health insurance coverage or face penalties for non-compliance. peoplekeep.com Wikipedia

States with Individual Healthcare Mandates​

The following states currently have their own individual mandates requiring residents to maintain health insurance coverage:

State	Effective Date	Penalty for Non-Compliance
Massachusetts	2006	Based on income and family size, capped at half the lowest plan cost.
New Jersey	2019	Based on household size and income, capped at average bronze plan premium.
California	2020	Higher of $900 per adult ($450 per child) or 2.5% of household income.
Rhode Island	2020	Greater of $695 per adult ($347.50 per child) or 2.5% of income.
District of Columbia	2019	Higher of $745 per adult ($372.50 per child) or 2.5% of income.
Vermont	2020	No financial penalty currently enforced.

Overview of the Individual Mandate​

The individual mandate was part of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and required individuals to have minimum essential coverage or face a penalty. Although the federal penalty was eliminated in 2019, these states have enacted their own mandates to encourage health insurance enrollment and reduce uninsured rates.
peoplekeep.com venteur.com

 

[Concerned American]

Because if they walk into an ER they get treated. Insurance or not. Should children have insurance even if their parents are stupid?

So what's changed? They always have been treated. The only thing that has changed are the penalties on healthy people who choose not to have insurance. Why should they be forced to spend money on an insurance they don't want. Illegal immigrants are exempt and they get treated. The gov't has no business in healthcare or any other private enterprise.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I was merely explaining the original purpose of the mandate.

Slippery!

True, it is the kind of thing that leads to a gov't shutdown.

Exactly.

I didn't know that and it sounds like BS to me.

Then you go on to prove me right:

ACA Mandate and Eligibility

• Exempt from Mandate: Undocumented immigrants were not required to have health coverage under the ACA's individual mandate and were eligible for an exemption for "exempt noncitizens". Therefore, they did not face a tax penalty for being uninsured. (Note: The federal individual mandate penalty has since been eliminated).
• Ineligible for ACA/Medicaid: Under longstanding federal law, individuals who are not lawfully present are not eligible to enroll in federally funded health coverage programs, including Medicaid, CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program), Medicare, or to purchase subsidized coverage through the ACA Marketplaces.

I think it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about. From 2009 to 2010, Gruber served as a technical consultant to the Obama Administration and worked with both the administration and U.S. Congress to help craft the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, often referred to as the ACA or "Obamacare". The Act was signed into law in March 2010, and Gruber has been described as an "architect", "writer", and "consultant" of the legislation.

Yes, the architect of Obamacare, just as I said.

It doesn't bother you at all that he was counting on your stupidity.In order to get obamacare passed?

I did. He is not the first President to be overly optimistic about his policies.

He stone cold lied if that's what you mean.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Should children have insurance even if their parents are stupid?

But the architect of obamacare said that voters who thought Obamacare was a good idea are the stupid ones, remember?

 

[alang1216]

Then you go on to prove me right:

Illegals and everyone else have always gotten free (ER) healthcare. The ACA had nothing to do with it.

It doesn't bother you at all that he was counting on your stupidity.In order to get obamacare passed?

Stupidity is the system we had, ACA was just an attempt to patch a broken system.

He stone cold lied if that's what you mean.

Maybe. So? Trump promised a healthcare system we'd love once he got rid of Obamacare, that's 2 lies, So?

 

[alang1216]

But the architect of obamacare said that voters who thought Obamacare was a good idea are the stupid ones, remember?

Obamacare was terrible. It was only better that what came before it.

 

[Concerned American]

Illegals and everyone else have always gotten free (ER) healthcare. The ACA had nothing to do with it.

So is this an admission that the only reason the ACA exists is so that taxpayers have to subsidize parasite's healthcare insurance?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Illegals and everyone else have always gotten free (ER) healthcare. The ACA had nothing to do with it.

It did when illegals were excempt from the mandate.

Stupidity is the system we had, ACA was just an attempt to patch a broken system.

It was an attempt to make an imperfect system so horrible that we'd beg for single payer, which is the true goal.

Maybe. So? Trump promised a healthcare system we'd love once he got rid of Obamacare, that's 2 lies, So?

Trump isn't finished yet. Obama is, and he sure doesn't get health insurance from the exchanges. Those were always meant for the suckers.

 

[alang1216]

It did when illegals were excempt from the mandate.

They're exempt from the mandate because they get no benefit from the ACA.

It was an attempt to make an imperfect system so horrible that we'd beg for single payer, which is the true goal.

I was begging for single payer before ACA.

Trump isn't finished yet. Obama is, and he sure doesn't get health insurance from the exchanges. Those were always meant for the suckers.

Suckers with pre-existing conditions.

 

[Greenbeard]

Seemed pretty obvious all along that the GOP could never come up with an Obamacare replacement because helping Americans get health care isn't a policy goal they share, but I guess it never hurts to periodically say it explicitly.

 

[HikerGuy83]

because helping Americans get health care

Obamacare isn't health care.

It's health insurance.

And it's so stupidly expensive that people don't use it.

And it's going to get more expensive.

 

[HikerGuy83]

We have to remember what Obamacare is in both purpose and design. Jonathan Gruber gave the only honest answer by drunkenly saying the quiet part out loud (more than onece):

It is a scheme to transfer wealth from the healthy to the unhealthy. The healthy pay far larger premiums in order for insurance companies to survive the requirment that they accept patients already sick with expensive maladies.

What Gruber left out is that much of the funding to the unhealthy comes from borrowed money and printed money used for the subsidies. The overwhelming majority of the marketplace premiums are paid for by government, not the individual.

Yep.....way to expensive if you don't have a subsidy.

I had to buy a crossover plan for my wife. 750/month with a high deductible. Basically, catastrophic insurance.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The solution to Obamacare is no Obamacare so we can go back to the far lower premiums and freedom of choice that existed prior to that legislation being passed under a cover of lies. There is not the political will to repeal it, and probably never will be.

When the government is in deficit, these wealth transfers are simply being pushed down to future generations.

Don't get me wrong. While I love the quality of care, the system stinks. Many doctors I know are pretty fed up.

But we ration doctors and do a whole bunch of other stupid stuff.

Doctors should be paid well, but many of them are flat out way past that. They call it business. I call it leverage and blackmail.