'Why Study Philosophy'

[percysunshine]

There is an old Bill Cosby joke (and album) where he recounts dating a philosophy major in college while he was a physical education major. She wandered around asking "Why is there air?" He replied that it was a dumb question. Everyone knows that air was for blowing up basketballs, footballs, and vollyballs....

 

[dblack]

I am glad to hear that. He could have learned those skills by reading Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Actually, he learned those skills, in part, working construction to finance his education.

Nevertheless, he is getting an expensive education that will almost certainly not help him on the job market. It might harm those with less social understanding and social skills.

You really don't know what you're talking about. That's not a slam, I just haven't given you all the details. He's the most practical person I know (yes, much more so than his father), and he has taken all this into account. He's worked his way into a highly ranked PhD program with an excellent placement record. And he's doing quite well so far. I appreciate your concern, and while it might be good advice for someone wondering what to do, it doesn't apply here.

I hope things work out for him. Nevertheless, it is always a bad idea to learn something that you can only teach. You are competing with everyone else who is learning that. If you want to be a teacher learn something that you can do for a living.

You seem preoccupied with education as "job-training". Is that really the only value you see in it?

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is no need at all to go to college to study liberal arts.

You can do it on your own for free. The funny thing is that the public is convinced that they have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to read a book.

Wow. You are so wrong. Most of those books were written by persons who attended a University or (in the distant past) had at least a single mentor. And today, most survey courses in the liberal arts can be taken at a Community College where the student can live at home and pay less per unit.

In a university graduate seminars allow one to study a narrow field with assigned reading and then spend a semester in a small group testing their own theories, getting and giving feedback, asking questions and answering them.

Liberal Arts allows one to study a single topic within the structure of different disciplines. For example, in my sophomore year I had separate courses in the Philosophy, Political Science and History departments all of which were focused on ancient Greece.

A Liberal Arts education provides perspective. A cure for myopic 'thinking' which dominates too many threads on the USMB.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There is no need at all to go to college to study liberal arts.

You can do it on your own for free. The funny thing is that the public is convinced that they have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to read a book.

Wow. You are so wrong. Most of those books were written by persons who attended a University or (in the distant past) had at least a single mentor. And today, most survey courses in the liberal arts can be taken at a Community College where the student can live at home and pay less per unit.

In a university graduate seminars allow one to study a narrow field with assigned reading and then spend a semester in a small group testing their own theories, getting and giving feedback, asking questions and answering them.

Liberal Arts allows one to study a single topic within the structure of different disciplines. For example, in my sophomore year I had separate courses in the Philosophy, Political Science and History departments all of which were focused on ancient Greece.

A Liberal Arts education provides perspective. A cure for myopic 'thinking' which dominates too many threads on the USMB.

You can do all that outside of a university setting for free.

It's myopic to think that learning can only take place if you pay for it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A liberal arts education prepares one to be a leader of society.

Sadly there are far fewer billets for leaders in this society than potential leaders.

It also prepares us to be educated critics of our leaders.

In addition it prepares us to be educated critics of our bosses. Unfortunately, most bosses do not like being criticized. Unless you can advise your boss on how to achieve what he is trying to achieve, and unless your advice works you are best off keeping your mouth shut. Even then, it is a good idea to excel in your own job before giving any advice at all.

The most important single factor in a job is a good relationship with your immediate supervisor. You will not get that by telling him why you don't like him, and how he is unsuited for his position.

A good supervisor appreciates constructive criticism and isn't interested in cultivating obsequious workers. A lousy supervisor/manager/director lacks introspection and always seems to ask, "how does this effect me" when things go awry or new ideas/methods are proffered. I patronized a few lousy ones before I became a boss and made an effort to actively listened to the mavericks while tuning out the ass kissers.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A liberal arts education prepares one to be a leader of society.

Sadly there are far fewer billets for leaders in this society than potential leaders.

It also prepares us to be educated critics of our leaders.

In addition it prepares us to be educated critics of our bosses. Unfortunately, most bosses do not like being criticized. Unless you can advise your boss on how to achieve what he is trying to achieve, and unless your advice works you are best off keeping your mouth shut. Even then, it is a good idea to excel in your own job before giving any advice at all.

The most important single factor in a job is a good relationship with your immediate supervisor. You will not get that by telling him why you don't like him, and how he is unsuited for his position.

There is no need at all to go to college to study liberal arts.

You can do it on your own for free. The funny thing is that the public is convinced that they have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to read a book.

Wow. You are so wrong. Most of those books were written by persons who attended a University or (in the distant past) had at least a single mentor. And today, most survey courses in the liberal arts can be taken at a Community College where the student can live at home and pay less per unit.

In a university graduate seminars allow one to study a narrow field with assigned reading and then spend a semester in a small group testing their own theories, getting and giving feedback, asking questions and answering them.

Liberal Arts allows one to study a single topic within the structure of different disciplines. For example, in my sophomore year I had separate courses in the Philosophy, Political Science and History departments all of which were focused on ancient Greece.

A Liberal Arts education provides perspective. A cure for myopic 'thinking' which dominates too many threads on the USMB.

You can do all that outside of a university setting for free.

It's myopic to think that learning can only take place if you pay for it.

I never suggested "learning can only take place if you pay for it"; I simply suggested your ideal of learning is like someone sitting in a cave with their back to the world and learning about it from the shadows passing by.

 

[Unkotare]

There is no need at all to go to college to study liberal arts.

You can do it on your own for free. The funny thing is that the public is convinced that they have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to read a book.

You on this again? You still don't understand what you are talking about.

 

[Unkotare]

But as far as your comment on getting your own education with books, absolutely.

You can read a lot of material that way, but you cannot get an education that way; in Philosophy as much or more than any other area of the humanities.

 

[Unkotare]

My oldest is getting his PhD in philosophy. His goal is a tenure track teaching position out of school, but that's tough to pull off. But the odds have been against him all along and he knocks down every barrier in his way, so I'm not too worried. Even if that doesn't pan out, he'll be prepared for any number of professional jobs out of school. He's a pretty good framing carpenter too.

It is a good thing he knows carpentry.

A liberal arts degree does not prepare one for a realistic job, and it may alienate one from one's co-workers. The liberal arts graduate will want to talk about Plato or Homer. His co-workers will be talking about last night's ball game or what happened on a sit com.

And now we know all sorts of things about you (as if we didn't before).

 

[Unkotare]

The underlying assumption appears to be that if you’re part of the upper class, you can enjoy the luxury of a liberal arts education. If you’re lower or middle class, the public institutions that are supposed to be part of the mythical “American dream,” that level playing field, should only offer courses in skilled trades. Wealthy young people will get a liberal arts education. Poor and middle class young people will choose a trade.

A liberal arts degree is fine for people who do not need to earn a living. It is also fine for people who manage to get admitted to an elite university. If you have Harvard on your resume employers will hire you because of the IQ power that enabled you to get in. They know they can train you. In addition, many bosses think having a Ivy trained subordinate is a status symbol.

If you go to a fair to middling college or university employers want someone who can, as they put it, "Hit the ground running." They want someone they can put into a cubicle and expect that person to be as productive as the person who sat there for five years.

I know what I am talking about. My degree was in political science. When I was working as a stock clerk my boss told me, "You are intelligent. You work hard. You do a good job. Nevertheless, we have nothing in common. As far as I am concerned, that is a problem. When I come to work I want to talk about last night's ball game or a fishing trip I was on. You are not interested in that."

He was right. I was not interested. He was not interested in what I wanted to talk about about, which would have been a book I was reading, a magazine article I had read, or a documentary I has seen on television. That was not a termination interview. Nevertheless, that boss had already given me a bad job review for contrived and picayune reasons. When the time came to lay people off I was on the list.

When I was trying to get another job as a stock clerk I kept applying for jobs that asked for a high school degree and six months of experience. I had a year and a half experience. I kept getting rejected. Finally a job counselor told me that I should not tell prospective employers about my college degree. She said it meant that I was overqualified.

That is what you get from a liberal arts degree. You are not qualified to do anything that takes a certain amount of intelligence. You are over qualified for anything you can learn on the job.

Sounds to me like you have poor social skills, an inferiority complex, and are basically incompetent. This fits with everything else you've posted here. Don't blame your degree or your managers. You are just a loser.

 

[Unkotare]

Nevertheless, he is getting an expensive education that will almost certainly not help him on the job market. It might harm those with less social understanding and social skills.

Not everyone is a loser just because YOU are.

 

[editec]

A liberal arts education prepares one to be a leader of society.

Sadly there are far fewer billets for leaders in this society than potential leaders.

It also prepares us to be educated critics of our leaders.

What it can not do in four short years is prepare you for the real world.

The liberal arts degree is useful if you keep educating yourself throughout your life.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It also prepares us to be educated critics of our leaders.

In addition it prepares us to be educated critics of our bosses. Unfortunately, most bosses do not like being criticized. Unless you can advise your boss on how to achieve what he is trying to achieve, and unless your advice works you are best off keeping your mouth shut. Even then, it is a good idea to excel in your own job before giving any advice at all.

The most important single factor in a job is a good relationship with your immediate supervisor. You will not get that by telling him why you don't like him, and how he is unsuited for his position.

Wow. You are so wrong. Most of those books were written by persons who attended a University or (in the distant past) had at least a single mentor. And today, most survey courses in the liberal arts can be taken at a Community College where the student can live at home and pay less per unit.

In a university graduate seminars allow one to study a narrow field with assigned reading and then spend a semester in a small group testing their own theories, getting and giving feedback, asking questions and answering them.

Liberal Arts allows one to study a single topic within the structure of different disciplines. For example, in my sophomore year I had separate courses in the Philosophy, Political Science and History departments all of which were focused on ancient Greece.

A Liberal Arts education provides perspective. A cure for myopic 'thinking' which dominates too many threads on the USMB.

You can do all that outside of a university setting for free.

It's myopic to think that learning can only take place if you pay for it.

I never suggested "learning can only take place if you pay for it"; I simply suggested your ideal of learning is like someone sitting in a cave with their back to the world and learning about it from the shadows passing by.

Why because I read it in a book without someone telling me first to read it then telling me what he thinks it means which I am supposed to regurgitate back on a test?

I'll read it myself and come up with my own interpretation. You can parrot back the professor to whom you paid a ridiculous amount of money to do what you could have done for free.

 

[Katzndogz]

A liberal arts education alone is worthless. It can add and enhance a substantive education but standing alone, it means nothing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A liberal arts education alone is worthless. It can add and enhance a substantive education but standing alone, it means nothing.

Which is why you're an idiot to pay for it.

 

[Unkotare]

A liberal arts education alone is worthless. It can add and enhance a substantive education but standing alone, it means nothing.

You don't understand what a liberal arts education is supposed to be.

 

[Unkotare]

In addition it prepares us to be educated critics of our bosses. Unfortunately, most bosses do not like being criticized. Unless you can advise your boss on how to achieve what he is trying to achieve, and unless your advice works you are best off keeping your mouth shut. Even then, it is a good idea to excel in your own job before giving any advice at all.

The most important single factor in a job is a good relationship with your immediate supervisor. You will not get that by telling him why you don't like him, and how he is unsuited for his position.

You can do all that outside of a university setting for free.

It's myopic to think that learning can only take place if you pay for it.

I never suggested "learning can only take place if you pay for it"; I simply suggested your ideal of learning is like someone sitting in a cave with their back to the world and learning about it from the shadows passing by.

Why because I read it in a book without someone telling me first to read it then telling me what he thinks it means which I am supposed to regurgitate back on a test?

I'll read it myself and come up with my own interpretation.

And most likely miss the point entirely. You can waste your time and indulge in empty self-affirmation for free, but you won't be learning.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never suggested "learning can only take place if you pay for it"; I simply suggested your ideal of learning is like someone sitting in a cave with their back to the world and learning about it from the shadows passing by.

Why because I read it in a book without someone telling me first to read it then telling me what he thinks it means which I am supposed to regurgitate back on a test?

I'll read it myself and come up with my own interpretation.

And most likely miss the point entirely. You can waste your time and indulge in empty self-affirmation for free, but you won't be learning.

Yeah OK.

If I read the same books some prof tells you to read I will learn the same stuff you do for free.

If I read more books than your prof tells you to read I will learn more than you.

Just because you need to be spoon fed doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[Unkotare]

If I read the same books some prof tells you to read I will learn the same stuff you do for free.

If I read more books than your prof tells you to read I will learn more than you.

Wrong and wrong. You're kind of an idiot, aren't you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If I read the same books some prof tells you to read I will learn the same stuff you do for free.

If I read more books than your prof tells you to read I will learn more than you.

Wrong and wrong. You're kind of an idiot, aren't you?

Gee how did people learn before there were colleges and egotistical professors?

I wonder.