Zone1 Why Protestants annoy me (and other Catholics)

[JustAGuy1]

if I am not mistaken, billo once said he/she was pro abortion

NOT Catholic at all..

Is it hard being the only true Catholic in the World?

 

[Dagosa]

Is it hard being the only true Catholic in the World?

True….and very Catholic.

 

[Batcat]

I have heard from canonized saints (writings) that it is more difficult for Protestants to get to heaven because they don't have the sacraments which impart supernatural grace. Jesus said it is difficult to get to Heaven ("few find" the narrow way).

It is only logical that Jesus Christ would only have to establish ONE Church

and He did establish only ONE. There is good wherever 2 or more are gathered in his Name but that takes nothing away from the fact there is only ONE true Church

Sacraments are an interesting topic. Catholics have seven, Protestants two.

I have no intention of arguing with you over your beliefs as I personally feel Catholics and Protestants can both be admitted into Heaven. However there are arguments saying sacraments are not essential.

Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? | GotQuestions.org

Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? Are there any aspects of the seven Catholic sacraments that do not agree with the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[nomadic5]

Sacraments are an interesting topic. Catholics have seven, Protestants two.

I have no intention of arguing with you over your beliefs as I personally feel Catholics and Protestants can both be admitted into Heaven. However there are arguments saying sacraments are not essential.

Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? | GotQuestions.org

Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? Are there any aspects of the seven Catholic sacraments that do not agree with the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

well, I am not sure either of us knows much about Sacraments, seeing as how we havent had any REAL Catholicism since 1958...

That said, the novus ordo did seem to retain one very very Catholic "thing"

the Real Presence of Christ. Jesus didn't leave, even though I kind of suspect He wanted to ...? or is that projection?

anyhow... That said, I am not sure that awesome Presence will remain in the novus ordo for long. Already, i have been in Churches that do not seem to have "it"

things b gettin crazy....

 

[Meriweather]

However there are arguments saying sacraments are not essential.

Sacraments are a discipline, not a necessity. They represent the major teachings of Christ.

• Baptism where we all are anointed as priests, prophets, and kings of Christianity
• Forgiveness of Sins
• The Last Supper
• The Coming of the Holy Spirit
• The Anointing of a special priesthood who devote their lives to those following Christ
• Healing

Sacraments are the life of Christ and therefore the life of his followers.

What is essential: Christ redeemed the world so that all are welcome into the Kingdom of God. So, as the parable advises, accept the invitation, don the wedding clothes of repentance of sin and obedience to God, and enter into the kingdom.

 

[ninja007]

A Summary Chart of the differences between Biblical Truth and Catholicism

by Richard Bennett

“Thy Word is Truth”
John 17:17

Biblical Truth The Light of God’s Word​ ​	Topic​	New Catechism Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994)​
The Bible only is the Standard for Truth​ “....the scripture cannot be broken.” John. 10:35 “Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.” John. 17:17 “That ye might learn in us not to think...above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs. 30:6 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered...” Mark. 7:13​	The Basis of​ Truth​	Truth is based on Scripture, Tradition, and the Pope ​ “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.” Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) Para 80 And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. CCC Para 81 “As a result the [Roman Catholic] Church...does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” CCC Para 82 “The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such.” CCC Para 891​
Salvation is by Grace Alone Through Faith​ “Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9 “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” Rom 5:17 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” Titus 3:5-6 “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21​	Salvation by Grace Alone​	For Salvation Grace becomes merely a help and is given through the sacraments of the Church​ “Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.” CCC Para2021 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ’Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. CCC Para1129 “One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” CCC Para 1493​
Faith is the Gift of God and comes by the Word of God ​ “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31 “For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17​	Faith is God-given ​ and sustained​	Faith comes through the Mother Church​ ​ “It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.” CCC Para 168 “Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother:...” Para 169 “Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother’” CCC Para 181​
Christ’s Sacrifice was His alone and once offered​ “...Jesus said, ‘It is finished:...’” John. 19:30 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” Hebrews 10:12 “...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” Hebrews. 1:3​	Christ’s Atonement Sufficient Finished Sacrifice​	Christ’s Sacrifice continues, and is also of the Church​ In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” CCC Para 1367 “The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the [Roman Catholic] Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire.” CCC Para 1368​

God is the Only All Holy One and the Only Source of Holiness​ “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah. 6:3 “Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou only art Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee...” Revelation. 15: 4 “There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel.2:2 “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8​	God, the Only All Holy One​	Mary is also the All-Holy One and the Source of Holiness​ “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.” CCC Para 2677 “From the [Roman Catholic] Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary....” CCC Para 2030 “The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God ‘the All-Holy’ (Panagia), and celebrate her as ‘free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature’” CCC Para 493​
In Salvation the Lord Jesus Christ Alone Mediates ​ “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy. 2:5 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12​	One Mediator​	In Salvation “Mary” Also Mediates​ ​ “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the [Roman Catholic] Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” CCC Para 969​
God Hates Idolatry​ “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.” Exodus. 20:4-5 “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake...Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure....” Dt. 4:13, 15-16 “Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” 1 John. 5:21​	Idolatry​	The Roman Catholic Church Rationalizes Idolatry​ “The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” CCC Para 2132 “Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified...the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new ‘economy’ of images.” CCC Para 2131​
This Pagan Practice is Forbidden in the Bible​ “There shall not be found among you any one... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer, [one who calls up the dead].” Deut. 18:10-11 “And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits [divination; contacting the dead], and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I Am the Lord your God.” Leviticus. 20:6-7​	Communion with the Dead​	This Practice is Recommended by Rome​ “Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead...Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping “them, bur also of making their intercession for us effective.” CCC Para 958 “The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer...Their intercession is their most exalted service...We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.” CCC Para 26​

 

[nomadic5]

Sacraments are a discipline, not a necessity. They represent the major teachings of Christ.

• Baptism where we all are anointed as priests, prophets, and kings of Christianity
• Forgiveness of Sins
• The Last Supper
• The Coming of the Holy Spirit
• The Anointing of a special priesthood who devote their lives to those following Christ
• Healing

Sacraments are the life of Christ and therefore the life of his followers.

What is essential: Christ redeemed the world so that all are welcome into the Kingdom of God. So, as the parable advises, accept the invitation, don the wedding clothes of repentance of sin and obedience to God, and enter into the kingdom.

who says they are not necessary?

the novus ordo fake "church"?

sounds novus ordo...

 

[surada]

who says they are not necessary?

the novus ordo fake "church"?

sounds novus ordo...

You aren't old enough to remember 1958.

 

[nomadic5]

You aren't old enough to remember 1958.

yes but... there are these things called books

 

[surada]

yes but... there are these things called books

Everyone I know who is still ranting about Vatican 2 is a crackpot.

 

[Billo_Really]

I know, you said you were very Catholic.
Is that Catholic in steroids ?

I'm not into the dogma.

 

[Dagosa]

Everyone I know who is still ranting about Vatican 2 is a crackpot.

Most people I know who professed to be religion “experts” are crackpots. .

 

[surada]

Most people I know who professed to be religion “experts” are crackpots. .

Better to wear it like a loose garment.

 

[Batcat]

well, I am not sure either of us knows much about Sacraments, seeing as how we havent had any REAL Catholicism since 1958...

That said, the novus ordo did seem to retain one very very Catholic "thing"

the Real Presence of Christ. Jesus didn't leave, even though I kind of suspect He wanted to ...? or is that projection?

anyhow... That said, I am not sure that awesome Presence will remain in the novus ordo for long. Already, i have been in Churches that do not seem to have "it"

things b gettin crazy....

So if we don’t have real Catholicism since 1958 and Protestant churches are not a viable option, what is a good Catholic supposed to do?

 

[Batcat]

Most people I know who professed to be religion “experts” are crackpots. .

Perhaps studying religion can drive some people crazy.

 

[nomadic5]

So if we don’t have real Catholicism since 1958 and Protestant churches are not a viable option, what is a good Catholic supposed to do?

that's the million dollar question. I go to Sedevacantist Masses when I can which is not often for a plethora of reasons (long drive is only one...)

But I guess maybe it's a test from God? It's easy to believe in Jesus when you can be with Him all the time as it was in the old days... but can one be faithful when one does not live nearby a Church? It is not easy and yet... Jesus is lovable and awesome whether we are in His actual Presence or not.. By the way, I believe you are Catholic .. so did any priest ever tell u about the Real Presence?

In my life, none did until some years ago... it was one of the few dedicated no priests I've ever met.. a few of them are sincere and very helpful

 

[nomadic5]

Perhaps studying religion can drive some people crazy.

are u saying I'm crazy?

Please... Jesus made me sane. Surely you believe He is capable of such... should have seen me before He got hold of me... that was crazy!

 

[Batcat]

I said are u saying I'm crazy?

Please... Jesus made me sane. Surely you believe He is capable of such... should have seen me before He got hold of me... that was crazy!

You stated,
“Most people I know who professed to be religion “experts” are crackpots.”

I am basically agreeing with you. Note I didn’t say the the study of religion will drive you crazy — I said it would drive some people crazy.

 

[nomadic5]

You stated,
“Most people I know who professed to be religion “experts” are crackpots.”

I am basically agreeing with you. Note I didn’t say the the study of religion will drive you crazy — I said it would drive some people crazy.

I did not say that thing about crackpots.. I don't call people that kind of name unless they are... I dunno... talking about sexualizing children or murdering them in the womb... or...?

 

[Meriweather]

who says they are not necessary?

the novus ordo fake "church"?

sounds novus ordo...

Knock it of. I am tired of the "novus ordo" hogwash. Every Catholic Church teaches the Sacraments and has all available to practicing Catholics. I was speaking about the history of why some Christians practice all the Sacraments and some do not. It dates back to the Reformation.

The Protestant Reformation decided the Apostolic Traditions were unnecessary. Christ announced "Sins are forgiven" and after fifteen hundred years, why continue to announce it. Everybody knows. Some also decided the Last Supper was a simple remembrance, nothing more. Others decided since the Holy Spirit is received at Baptism, why have another ceremony (Confirmation). Jesus never said to attend church on Sunday, so celebrating the day of Christ's resurrection was made optional. No one needed to be taught the Bible. They could read it and come to individual conclusions of their own.

Christianity made easy.