Why Obama advocates can't afford to make a big deal about Mormon candidates

[Photonic]

I'll reiterate just for you.

I don't want his personal religion influencing his decision making on any scale. I don't care who it is, or what they stand for.

Hence the "stay at home" statement.

Not to physically keep his beliefs at home.

Otherwise this country would become nothing more than another Saudi Arabia/Iran.

you cannot separate a man from his beliefs....

if his beliefs are not compatible with the U.S. Constitution.....then you have a beef about the man and his religion...

Then I suppose it would be wise to check out Romney and Huntsman's belief, assuming they are active and faithful Mormons:

A Declaration of Belief on Religion and Government

76 And again I say unto you, those who have been scattered by their enemies, it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress, and redemption, by the hands of those who are placed as rulers and are in authority over you—

77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles;

78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.(D&C 101:76-80 )

A belief that the Constitution is established of God (Which it is) is a good belief. Because those who believe that will strive to uphold it.

Well, you can't prove it was established by God. That's a dangerous idea to hold to anyways. But if he sees the constitution as the ultimate law of the land I'm fine with that.

 

[VaYank5150]

Why pro-Obama forces on the campaign trail, in the media, in backroom strategy meetings, etc. can't afford to dissect Romney's religion as a way to discredit him:

A. Harry Reid


I'd say it should be off-limits since Jeremiah Wright's sermons were. That wouldn't be enough to stop Democratic strategists two-facedness though.

But Harry Reid being Mormon will.

They can't afford to undermine the leader of the Senate.

Are you REALLY this stupid? When was the last time anyone in the Democratic party made a comment that Romney's religion is an issue? If you recall during the campaign leading up to the 2008 election, it was the GOP who made it an issue. So much so, that Romeny felt the need to dedicate a whole speech to it.

I don't listen to all that many people in the Democrat party. Democrats on the grass roots / forum level seem to have a problem with some Christian denominations. And Maddow made it a point to ask Carter if Romney's religion would be a problem. Why was she talking about it? Not saying she or any one on the left posed it as something objectionable.


But whatever they are saying in the venues I don't listen to, I don't understand why you ask if I'm stupid. I know what people are saying on my side. I'm mostly addressing them. My point is the powers that be won't make a deal about Romney's religion. Perhaps you haven't been reading the posts by people who say they will. Some on the right are suggesting the left will make a big deal out of it. Some on the right are doing this to try to convince Romney supporters that Romney will be another McCain.

McCain whom the New York Times endorsed for the Republican nomination and then went into overdrive to discredit after he won the nomination.



I'm sure that a lot of liberals who are now talking about Romney as the Republican who has the best chance against Obama will indeed start trash talking him after he wins the nomination. I'm just saying that contrary to what some on the right (and in the middle?) are saying, I don't think they will use his religion to do that.

If people on the editorial staff at MSNBC start talking about doing exposes on Mormonism - as some on the right are saying they will - I'd expect someone in the room to say, um, wait, that could backfire on us.

Blah, blah, blah....this is YOUR thread with YOUR thread title. I am an Obama advocate. I could care less about Romney's religion, or Obama's or McCain's or anyojne else's for that matter. YOU made it an issue today. YOU, on the right. And your GOP "base" made it an issue in 2008. Romney had at least been in the private sector, while McCain openly admitted that economics were "not one of his strong suits"......and yet you idiots STILL put him on the ticket. Your "base" will never allow a Mormon on the GOP ticket, and you have noone but yourselves to blame.

 

[Amelia]

Are you REALLY this stupid? When was the last time anyone in the Democratic party made a comment that Romney's religion is an issue? If you recall during the campaign leading up to the 2008 election, it was the GOP who made it an issue. So much so, that Romeny felt the need to dedicate a whole speech to it.

I don't listen to all that many people in the Democrat party. Democrats on the grass roots / forum level seem to have a problem with some Christian denominations. And Maddow made it a point to ask Carter if Romney's religion would be a problem. Why was she talking about it? Not saying she or any one on the left posed it as something objectionable.


But whatever they are saying in the venues I don't listen to, I don't understand why you ask if I'm stupid. I know what people are saying on my side. I'm mostly addressing them. My point is the powers that be won't make a deal about Romney's religion. Perhaps you haven't been reading the posts by people who say they will. Some on the right are suggesting the left will make a big deal out of it. Some on the right are doing this to try to convince Romney supporters that Romney will be another McCain.

McCain whom the New York Times endorsed for the Republican nomination and then went into overdrive to discredit after he won the nomination.



I'm sure that a lot of liberals who are now talking about Romney as the Republican who has the best chance against Obama will indeed start trash talking him after he wins the nomination. I'm just saying that contrary to what some on the right (and in the middle?) are saying, I don't think they will use his religion to do that.

If people on the editorial staff at MSNBC start talking about doing exposes on Mormonism - as some on the right are saying they will - I'd expect someone in the room to say, um, wait, that could backfire on us.

Blah, blah, blah....this is YOUR thread with YOUR thread title. I am an Obama advocate. I could care less about Romney's religion, or Obama's or McCain's or anyojne else's for that matter. YOU made it an issue today. YOU, on the right. And your GOP "base" made it an issue in 2008. Romney had at least been in the private sector, while McCain openly admitted that economics were "not one of his strong suits"......and yet you idiots STILL put him on the ticket. Your "base" will never allow a Mormon on the GOP ticket, and you have noone but yourselves to blame.

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

 

[Listening]

we dont care.

its the right that uses religion as a litmus test

Which religion ?

Huckabee got into it with Romney over his (MR's) religion.

So which one would they utilize ?

 

[Listening]

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

I think maybe he is saying it isn't the left that will make a big deal out of it.

But the right will.....

 

[VaYank5150]

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

I think maybe he is saying it isn't the left that will make a big deal out of it.

But the right will.....

History has a way of repeating itself....

 

[Photonic]

I don't listen to all that many people in the Democrat party. Democrats on the grass roots / forum level seem to have a problem with some Christian denominations. And Maddow made it a point to ask Carter if Romney's religion would be a problem. Why was she talking about it? Not saying she or any one on the left posed it as something objectionable.


But whatever they are saying in the venues I don't listen to, I don't understand why you ask if I'm stupid. I know what people are saying on my side. I'm mostly addressing them. My point is the powers that be won't make a deal about Romney's religion. Perhaps you haven't been reading the posts by people who say they will. Some on the right are suggesting the left will make a big deal out of it. Some on the right are doing this to try to convince Romney supporters that Romney will be another McCain.

McCain whom the New York Times endorsed for the Republican nomination and then went into overdrive to discredit after he won the nomination.



I'm sure that a lot of liberals who are now talking about Romney as the Republican who has the best chance against Obama will indeed start trash talking him after he wins the nomination. I'm just saying that contrary to what some on the right (and in the middle?) are saying, I don't think they will use his religion to do that.

If people on the editorial staff at MSNBC start talking about doing exposes on Mormonism - as some on the right are saying they will - I'd expect someone in the room to say, um, wait, that could backfire on us.

Blah, blah, blah....this is YOUR thread with YOUR thread title. I am an Obama advocate. I could care less about Romney's religion, or Obama's or McCain's or anyojne else's for that matter. YOU made it an issue today. YOU, on the right. And your GOP "base" made it an issue in 2008. Romney had at least been in the private sector, while McCain openly admitted that economics were "not one of his strong suits"......and yet you idiots STILL put him on the ticket. Your "base" will never allow a Mormon on the GOP ticket, and you have noone but yourselves to blame.

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

The left doesn't usually take issue with religion unless it directly interferes with public policy. That's what I've noticed anyways.

 

[Ravi]

Blah, blah, blah....this is YOUR thread with YOUR thread title. I am an Obama advocate. I could care less about Romney's religion, or Obama's or McCain's or anyojne else's for that matter. YOU made it an issue today. YOU, on the right. And your GOP "base" made it an issue in 2008. Romney had at least been in the private sector, while McCain openly admitted that economics were "not one of his strong suits"......and yet you idiots STILL put him on the ticket. Your "base" will never allow a Mormon on the GOP ticket, and you have noone but yourselves to blame.

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

The left doesn't usually take issue with religion unless it directly interferes with public policy. That's what I've noticed anyways.

Exactly. Mormon's aren't any different than any other religious group. They are either uberfundamental or they aren't.

Besides, if a Mormon is president it means we all really will become Gods of our own planets.

 

[Amelia]

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

I think maybe he is saying it isn't the left that will make a big deal out of it.

But the right will.....

Which is what I was saying. So I still don't know why he was arguing with me.


I think that some bulldogs on the left would leave it on the table in some subtle way because it would be stupid not to at least consider how to make it a wedge. MSNBC hosts could bring it up like, "the right was very concerned about Jeremiah Wright - what do they think about what Romney's religious leaders say=?"

And the left might consider it worth the risk to keep a reminder somewhere near the surface about how the Mormon church has been out of step with the rest of America in the matter of equality of blacks and women.



To me that is in the realm of possibility.



A lot of people on the left and on the right wouldn't care at all but I have indeed heard people make it a racial issue. I didn't remember that earlier when I first made the wasted effort to address VaYank in more detail than he/she deserved. But yeah, I have heard people on the left complain about Romney's religion because of the lack of diversity and the church's policy toward blacks until 1978, plus the things which were said about blacks before that.

I think that would be red meat for a lot on the left.



But I continue to think that kind of talk will be muted. Not because of the left's lack of inclination to use religion as a litmus test. But because people who try to hang Mormon negatives on Romney would be reminded by DNC higher ups that they're hurting Reid's image.

 

[Amelia]

Blah, blah, blah....this is YOUR thread with YOUR thread title. I am an Obama advocate. I could care less about Romney's religion, or Obama's or McCain's or anyojne else's for that matter. YOU made it an issue today. YOU, on the right. And your GOP "base" made it an issue in 2008. Romney had at least been in the private sector, while McCain openly admitted that economics were "not one of his strong suits"......and yet you idiots STILL put him on the ticket. Your "base" will never allow a Mormon on the GOP ticket, and you have noone but yourselves to blame.

Yes, it's my thread and my title. What's your objection?

My side is saying the left will make a big deal about Romney's religion. I'm saying they won't. You agree with me.

What the heck are you complaining about?

The left doesn't usually take issue with religion unless it directly interferes with public policy. That's what I've noticed anyways.

I haven't seen the left make a deal about religion here, but I have heard people at HuffingtonPost make an issue about Mormonism. I don't remember any articles about it offhand. But I read a lot of bitterness in the comment section about the church only relatively recently allowing blacks to have the priesthood and be married in the temple.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why pro-Obama forces on the campaign trail, in the media, in backroom strategy meetings, etc. can't afford to dissect Romney's religion as a way to discredit him:

A. Harry Reid


I'd say it should be off-limits since Jeremiah Wright's sermons were. That wouldn't be enough to stop Democratic strategists two-facedness though.

But Harry Reid being Mormon will.

They can't afford to undermine the leader of the Senate.

What? Reid or no Reid, we aren't the party of the "Religious Right" which generally views Mormanism as a "cult". Democrats don't give a fuck about Romney's religion (or Huntsman's) just as they didn't give a fuck about JFK's religion.

If he can survive the primary, Romney's religion is a non-issue. Especially in light of the more dishonest fucking hacks on the right trying to claim Obama is a Muslim. We are sick of that shit.

What kind of fantasy world are you living in?

 

[Amelia]

I was giving the left a LOT of credit for not making a big deal about religion. My OP was in answer to comments I'd heard people on the right say.


But the more you guys protest that you don't care about religion, the more I remember what I have heard. I had forgotten that I have heard the left make a deal about religion.


About evangelicals as rightwing religious nuts.


AND about Mormons, for civil liberties / social justice reasons. The Mormon religion is a patriarchal establishment which until relatively recently did not allow blacks to have the priesthood. And I have heard people on the left make a big deal about that to the point of saying it is why they would never vote for a Mormon.



Thanks for forcing me to remember this.



So stop acting holier than thou. My point remains that I don't think the left will make a point about Romney's religion on a widespread/national level.

But some of ya'll on the left do have dirty hands on this matter of holding religion against a candidate.

 

[Photonic]

I was giving the left a LOT of credit for not making a big deal about religion. My OP was in answer to comments I'd heard people on the right say.


But the more you guys protest that you don't care about religion, the more I remember what I have heard. I had forgotten that I have heard the left make a deal about religion.


About evangelicals as rightwing religious nuts.


AND about Mormons, for civil liberties / social justice reasons. The Mormon religion is a patriarchal establishment which until relatively recently did not allow blacks to have the priesthood. And I have heard people on the left make a big deal about that to the point of saying it is why they would never vote for a Mormon.



Thanks for forcing me to remember this.



So stop acting holier than thou. My point remains that I don't think the left will make a point about Romney's religion on a widespread/national level.

But some of ya'll on the left do have dirty hands on this matter of holding religion against a candidate.

Like I said, they hold religion against a candidate if it might interfere with public policy, otherwise they don't really care.

 

[Flopper]

Why pro-Obama forces on the campaign trail, in the media, in backroom strategy meetings, etc. can't afford to dissect Romney's religion as a way to discredit him:

A. Harry Reid


I'd say it should be off-limits since Jeremiah Wright's sermons were. That wouldn't be enough to stop Democratic strategists two-facedness though.

But Harry Reid being Mormon will.

They can't afford to undermine the leader of the Senate.

No candidate today can afford to opening attack the opponent because of their religious preference and there is no reason to do so.

 

[Amelia]

I was giving the left a LOT of credit for not making a big deal about religion. My OP was in answer to comments I'd heard people on the right say.


But the more you guys protest that you don't care about religion, the more I remember what I have heard. I had forgotten that I have heard the left make a deal about religion.


About evangelicals as rightwing religious nuts.


AND about Mormons, for civil liberties / social justice reasons. The Mormon religion is a patriarchal establishment which until relatively recently did not allow blacks to have the priesthood. And I have heard people on the left make a big deal about that to the point of saying it is why they would never vote for a Mormon.



Thanks for forcing me to remember this.



So stop acting holier than thou. My point remains that I don't think the left will make a point about Romney's religion on a widespread/national level.

But some of ya'll on the left do have dirty hands on this matter of holding religion against a candidate.

Like I said, they hold religion against a candidate if it might interfere with public policy, otherwise they don't really care.

How would the Mormon church not allowing blacks to be priests until 1978 interfere with public policy in 2012?

There are people on the left who declare they will not vote for a Romney because he is Mormon without any regard to the evidence or lack thereof that he personally would let his religion affect his governance.


It happens.



*sigh*

But my OP remains. I don't think the left will make an issue of it this time around.

*sigh again*

 

[Amelia]

Why pro-Obama forces on the campaign trail, in the media, in backroom strategy meetings, etc. can't afford to dissect Romney's religion as a way to discredit him:

A. Harry Reid


I'd say it should be off-limits since Jeremiah Wright's sermons were. That wouldn't be enough to stop Democratic strategists two-facedness though.

But Harry Reid being Mormon will.

They can't afford to undermine the leader of the Senate.

No candidate today can afford to opening attack the opponent because of their religious preference and there is no reason to do so.

The predictions I've heard have been more along the lines of the MSM would start running specials on the history and beliefs of Mormonism in a "subtle" attempt to keep Romney's religion in the minds of the masses in a negative way.

 

[Amelia]

Gallup Poll

In U.S., 22% Are Hesitant to Support a Mormon in 2012


Percentage of Democrats who would not vote for a Mormon for president: 27

Percentage of Republicans: 18





Hmmm ... I'm still thinking that the media won't try to play anti-Mormon games ... but the more I dig the more I realize I was giving too much credit to the left for not having hang ups about Mormonism.

 

[geauxtohell]

I was giving the left a LOT of credit for not making a big deal about religion. My OP was in answer to comments I'd heard people on the right say.


But the more you guys protest that you don't care about religion, the more I remember what I have heard. I had forgotten that I have heard the left make a deal about religion.


About evangelicals as rightwing religious nuts.


AND about Mormons, for civil liberties / social justice reasons. The Mormon religion is a patriarchal establishment which until relatively recently did not allow blacks to have the priesthood. And I have heard people on the left make a big deal about that to the point of saying it is why they would never vote for a Mormon.



Thanks for forcing me to remember this.



So stop acting holier than thou. My point remains that I don't think the left will make a point about Romney's religion on a widespread/national level.

But some of ya'll on the left do have dirty hands on this matter of holding religion against a candidate.

What?

I'll sum up your OP as I perceived it in one sentence:

"The left can't badger Romney about being a Mormon, because Harry Reid is a Morman too."

Now, if I didn't understand you correctly, feel free to correct me.

Either way, it's absurd. We are the party that doesn't care what religion you belong too. We elected the first Catholic and we have a Muslim in congress (which the right did make a big deal out of). The DNC is dysfunctional in it's own right, but we can truly say we don't have a religious litmus test.

If Romney's religion is going to matter, it will be in the primary. If he survives that, he's got a good chance as he's A.) Not fucking crazy B.) Has Moderate Appeal C.) Will pick up all the GOP votes he lost.

Obama will have a hard race against Romney. Not so much Bachmann (whose toast now anyways) or Perry.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why pro-Obama forces on the campaign trail, in the media, in backroom strategy meetings, etc. can't afford to dissect Romney's religion as a way to discredit him:

A. Harry Reid


I'd say it should be off-limits since Jeremiah Wright's sermons were. That wouldn't be enough to stop Democratic strategists two-facedness though.

But Harry Reid being Mormon will.

They can't afford to undermine the leader of the Senate.

No candidate today can afford to opening attack the opponent because of their religious preference and there is no reason to do so.

The predictions I've heard have been more along the lines of the MSM would start running specials on the history and beliefs of Mormonism in a "subtle" attempt to keep Romney's religion in the minds of the masses in a negative way.

It's the fastest growing religion in the world. Do you think it's going to remain some sort of secret?

 

[Amelia]

What?

I'll sum up your OP as I perceived it in one sentence:

"The left can't badger Romney about being a Mormon, because Harry Reid is a Morman too."

Now, if I didn't understand you correctly, feel free to correct me.

Either way, it's absurd. We are the party that doesn't care what religion you belong too. We elected the first Catholic and we have a Muslim in congress (which the right did make a big deal out of). The DNC is dysfunctional in it's own right, but we can truly say we don't have a religious litmus test.

If Romney's religion is going to matter, it will be in the primary. If he survives that, he's got a good chance as he's A.) Not fucking crazy B.) Has Moderate Appeal C.) Will pick up all the GOP votes he lost.

Obama will have a hard race against Romney. Not so much Bachmann (whose toast now anyways) or Perry.

That would be an adequate summary of my OP on a surface level. However your use of the word "badger" suggests to me that you got the spirit of my post wrong. The intention behind my post was to say that the right is incorrect when they predict that the left will make a big deal about Romney being Mormon, because the power players on the left are smart enough to see that there would be pitfalls to that.


However, as my continued reading has shown me, you are full of shaving cream to say that the left doesn't care about religion.

The left has a lot of fundamentalist religious people in it. A lot of people who aren't lockstep with the national Democratic image. For example a lot of people who are opposed to gay marriage. And a lot of people who wouldn't vote for a Mormon, because he was a Mormon. I bought into the "Democrats are tolerant" meme. You sweet Democrats forced me to remember/learn more about your intolerance when you insisted on missing the point that I was actually criticizing some Republican predictions. lol. Good job.