Why Is This Fact Not Taught In Churches?

[irosie91]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

how do you know they were black? Why do you assume that all people who lived in Africa ~~~~~ 6000 or more years were "black" ?
Race is a very nebulous concept in human beans

 

[Indeependent]

What happens prior and what happens after?
And where does Adam decide to reside?
I get it; I’m a Honky and you can’t give in to a Honky...even when your soul is on the line.

I will tell you after you answer my question. If you cant or wont then dont bother.

What question?
The Torah is the blueprint of existence; it’s not a history book.
You cannot read the Torah at the age of 30 the way you read it at 5.

The question you avoided because you had no answer.
"Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?"

From commentary going back 2,500 years.
You also have to very carefully study the Hebrew words.
Takes a good couple of years.
I’m also surprised you don’t notice this pattern on TV shows and in movies.
Choice is context.
You have God and the Garden and you would leave?

What Hebrew words change the meaning of the OT regarding Havilah and Kush? Focus. This is the point.

The point is that you are too focused.
Would you leave God’s presence for the Gold Rush?
Does a land with gold guarantee peace and tranquility?
The land of Cush was spiritually intended for Cush and no one has ever disputed such; on the other hand, all the Egyptians wanted to know from Avraham was, “Who’s the chick with you?”.
A land that exudes and embraces such behavior is not suitable for a Godly people.
You see, focusing on a few verses is very short sighted, but that is how they teach in Church.

 

[irosie91]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

Who cares? What colour skin have chimps got?

These early humans probably had pale skin, much like humans' closest living relative, the chimpanzee, which is white under its fur. Around 1.2 million to 1.8 million years ago, early Homo sapiens evolved darkskin.Feb 25, 2014

Odd Cause of Humans' Dark Skin Proposed

New gene variants reveal the evolution of human skin color

By Ann GibbonsOct. 12, 2017 , 2:00 PM

Most people associate Africans with dark skin. But different groups of people in Africa have almost every skin color on the planet, from deepest black in the Dinka of South Sudan to beige in the San of South Africa. Now, researchers have discovered a handful of new gene variants responsible for this palette of tones.

The study, published online this week in Science, traces the evolution of these genes and how they traveled around the world. While the dark skin of some Pacific Islanders can be traced to Africa, gene variants from Eurasia also seem to have made their way back to Africa. And surprisingly, some of the mutations responsible for lighter skin in Europeans turn out to have an ancient African origin.

“This is really a landmark study of skin color diversity,” says geneticist Greg Barsh of the HudsonAlpha Institute for Biotechnology in Huntsville, Alabama.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/new-gene-variants-reveal-evolution-human-skin-color

Looks like your ASS-sumptions need some theory-adjustment.

All Africans are Black seems a rather RACIST slur!!

Greg

Your own link says the chimp like hominins had pale skin. By the time homo sapiens evolved the skin was dark. Light skin in homo sapiens didnt appear until about 8k years ago and that was due to a mutation.

Nothing you posted is news to me and has nothing to do with what I asked about the bible.

is "race" determined by the HUE of the skin? -----hue is
a very feeble way of differentiating LIVING THINGS

 

[Asclepias]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

how do you know they were black? Why do you assume that all people who lived in Africa ~~~~~ 6000 or more years were "black" ?
Race is a very nebulous concept in human beans

How do I know they were Black?. Science and the bible both say they were Black.

 

[Asclepias]

I will tell you after you answer my question. If you cant or wont then dont bother.

What question?
The Torah is the blueprint of existence; it’s not a history book.
You cannot read the Torah at the age of 30 the way you read it at 5.

The question you avoided because you had no answer.
"Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?"

From commentary going back 2,500 years.
You also have to very carefully study the Hebrew words.
Takes a good couple of years.
I’m also surprised you don’t notice this pattern on TV shows and in movies.
Choice is context.
You have God and the Garden and you would leave?

What Hebrew words change the meaning of the OT regarding Havilah and Kush? Focus. This is the point.

The point is that you are too focused.
Would you leave God’s presence for the Gold Rush?
Does a land with gold guarantee peace and tranquility?
The land of Cush was spiritually intended for Cush and no one has ever disputed such; on the other hand, all the Egyptians wanted to know from Avraham was, “Who’s the chick with you?”.
A land that exudes and embraces such behavior is not suitable for a Godly people.
You see, focusing on a few verses is very short sighted, but that is how they teach in Church.

You avoided my question again. I understand if you cant answer it but at least acknowledge it.

 

[Indeependent]

What question?
The Torah is the blueprint of existence; it’s not a history book.
You cannot read the Torah at the age of 30 the way you read it at 5.

The question you avoided because you had no answer.
"Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?"

From commentary going back 2,500 years.
You also have to very carefully study the Hebrew words.
Takes a good couple of years.
I’m also surprised you don’t notice this pattern on TV shows and in movies.
Choice is context.
You have God and the Garden and you would leave?

What Hebrew words change the meaning of the OT regarding Havilah and Kush? Focus. This is the point.

The point is that you are too focused.
Would you leave God’s presence for the Gold Rush?
Does a land with gold guarantee peace and tranquility?
The land of Cush was spiritually intended for Cush and no one has ever disputed such; on the other hand, all the Egyptians wanted to know from Avraham was, “Who’s the chick with you?”.
A land that exudes and embraces such behavior is not suitable for a Godly people.
You see, focusing on a few verses is very short sighted, but that is how they teach in Church.

You avoided my question again. I understand if you cant answer it but at least acknowledge it.

The fact is I’m a Honky and you’re not very bright.

 

[irosie91]

"Why Is This Fact Not Taught In Churches?"

You mean, like the billions of trillions of other facts, also not taught in churches? Is there a punch line to be found in any of this?

This is a very important fact that should be taught.

Oh, for pity's sake.

You actually think what you read in the bible are "facts", important facts, no less? And that folks go to church to learn about facts?

Yep. Its a fact that this is in the bible. Yes its a important fact. It begs the question of why did white people try to make everything about whites instead of telling the truth?

I do not recall anything about the "COLOR" of adam or eve in the bible-----or even in the Midrash or Talmud. ------Why do you insist that
"white people" call Adam "white"?

 

[Indeependent]

"Why Is This Fact Not Taught In Churches?"

You mean, like the billions of trillions of other facts, also not taught in churches? Is there a punch line to be found in any of this?

This is a very important fact that should be taught.

Oh, for pity's sake.

You actually think what you read in the bible are "facts", important facts, no less? And that folks go to church to learn about facts?

Yep. Its a fact that this is in the bible. Yes its a important fact. It begs the question of why did white people try to make everything about whites instead of telling the truth?

I do not recall anything about the "COLOR" of adam or eve in the bible-----or even in the Midrash or Talmud. ------Why do you insist that
"white people" call Adam "white"?

Don’t bother.

 

[Asclepias]

"Why Is This Fact Not Taught In Churches?"

You mean, like the billions of trillions of other facts, also not taught in churches? Is there a punch line to be found in any of this?

This is a very important fact that should be taught.

Oh, for pity's sake.

You actually think what you read in the bible are "facts", important facts, no less? And that folks go to church to learn about facts?

Yep. Its a fact that this is in the bible. Yes its a important fact. It begs the question of why did white people try to make everything about whites instead of telling the truth?

I do not recall anything about the "COLOR" of adam or eve in the bible-----or even in the Midrash or Talmud. ------Why do you insist that
"white people" call Adam "white"?

I recall plenty of parts of the bible describing people as Black or the descended from other Blacks. The name Adam is derived from Adamah which means reddish brown earth like the color of so many Black people.

I dont insist white people call Adam white. I ask why do they call Adam white.when he was obviously of African appearance.

 

[irosie91]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

how do you know they were black? Why do you assume that all people who lived in Africa ~~~~~ 6000 or more years were "black" ?
Race is a very nebulous concept in human beans

How do I know they were Black?. Science and the bible both say they were Black.

nope-----science and the bible make no mention of the color of
ALL PEOPLE in Africa. The bible is very specific SOMETIMES
that this or that person is black suggesting that the "condition" is
more UNUSUAL than usual

 

[Asclepias]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

how do you know they were black? Why do you assume that all people who lived in Africa ~~~~~ 6000 or more years were "black" ?
Race is a very nebulous concept in human beans

How do I know they were Black?. Science and the bible both say they were Black.

nope-----science and the bible make no mention of the color of
ALL PEOPLE in Africa. The bible is very specific SOMETIMES
that this or that person is black suggesting that the "condition" is
more UNUSUAL than usual

Nope both science and the bible say that the people of Africa range from reddish brown to the Blackest black imaginable.

 

[irosie91]

"Why Is This Fact Not Taught In Churches?"

You mean, like the billions of trillions of other facts, also not taught in churches? Is there a punch line to be found in any of this?

This is a very important fact that should be taught.

Oh, for pity's sake.

You actually think what you read in the bible are "facts", important facts, no less? And that folks go to church to learn about facts?

Yep. Its a fact that this is in the bible. Yes its a important fact. It begs the question of why did white people try to make everything about whites instead of telling the truth?

I do not recall anything about the "COLOR" of adam or eve in the bible-----or even in the Midrash or Talmud. ------Why do you insist that
"white people" call Adam "white"?

I recall plenty of parts of the bible describing people as Black or the descended from other Blacks.

I dont insist white people call Adam white. I ask why do they call Adam white.when he was obviously of African appearance.

that is true-----the writings of the bible INDICATE that being "BLACK"
is an issue of NOTE suggesting that the general population in context
were NOT BLACK. Africa is a big continent

 

[rylah]

The verse describes 4 rivers that exit the Garden near Eden and where they lead to.
The rivers lead to various levels of physicality.
It is our spiritual quest to stay in the Garden and not be tempted by anything outside the Garden.

Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?

On mount Sinai.
Knowledge of Torah.

Show me in the Torah why its metaphysical instead of a geographical location. Can you do that?

Bereshit 1:1
Bereshit 28:13

How do You differentiate?

Neither of those have anything to do with the location of Eden and neither suggest a metaphysical instead of geographical explanation. Can you provide your logic if possible?

Verse 1 establishes the connection between the physical and metaphysical.
Verse 13 closes the cycle portraying a direct connection between earth and heaven.

 

[irosie91]

It's certainly taught in Synagogues.

So if the OT shows that the Garden of Eden was in East Africa why do some white people dispute that Adam and Eve were Black?

how do you know they were black? Why do you assume that all people who lived in Africa ~~~~~ 6000 or more years were "black" ?
Race is a very nebulous concept in human beans

How do I know they were Black?. Science and the bible both say they were Black.

nope-----science and the bible make no mention of the color of
ALL PEOPLE in Africa. The bible is very specific SOMETIMES
that this or that person is black suggesting that the "condition" is
more UNUSUAL than usual

Nope both science and the bible say that the people of Africa range from reddish brown to the Blackest black imaginable.

nope

 

[peach174]

It's both.
The Old Testament and New Testament.
Both written by Jews.

I've been told by Jews they dont subscribe to the NT. How do you know Jews wrote the NT?

No they do not accept the New Testament because they don't believe Jesus is the messiah.
It was the followers of Jesus, his disciples who wrote the New Testament and founded the 1st Churches.

There is no proof the disciples wrote the NT or even existed for that matter. Its unclear exactly who wrote them.

Yes there is proof and yes they existed.

Link? Heres mine.

These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?

It's both.
The Old Testament and New Testament.
Both written by Jews.

I've been told by Jews they dont subscribe to the NT. How do you know Jews wrote the NT?

No they do not accept the New Testament because they don't believe Jesus is the messiah.
It was the followers of Jesus, his disciples who wrote the New Testament and founded the 1st Churches.

There is no proof the disciples wrote the NT or even existed for that matter. Its unclear exactly who wrote them.

Yes there is proof and yes they existed.

Link? Heres mine.

These 12 Men Shaped Christianity—But Were They Real?

What evidence is there that the apostles died for their faith? | Evidence for Christianity

 

[irosie91]

Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?

On mount Sinai.
Knowledge of Torah.

Show me in the Torah why its metaphysical instead of a geographical location. Can you do that?

Bereshit 1:1
Bereshit 28:13

How do You differentiate?

Neither of those have anything to do with the location of Eden and neither suggest a metaphysical instead of geographical explanation. Can you provide your logic if possible?

Verse 1 establishes the connection between the physical and metaphysical.
Verse 13 closes the cycle establishing a direct connection between earth and heaven through Yaakov's encounter with Hashem.

not so direct--------Yaakov had to buy a ladder at home depot

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Was doing some research on the bible and was reading Genesis 2:11-13. The first 2 nations that are mentioned in the bible are Black nations. The first nation listed is Havilah. Havilah is the son of Kush and it was located in East Africa. The second nation is of course Kush. Kush is the son of Ham and it was also located in east Africa. It is known today as Ethiopia.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 2:11-13 - English Standard Version

11 The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush.

Two little problems here:

1.) This is an early chapter in Genesis giving the account of Creation and describing the Garden of Eden. The only person who existed at this point in the narrative is Adam. However, the lands mentioned here - Havilah and Kush - are supposedly named after descendants of Noah. Problem is, Adam being the only person alive at this point, Noah himself hadn't been born yet, much less his descendants.

2.) The English Standard Version you cite from mentions the rivers in the past tense; "...that flowed around...". The original Hebrew text does not use the past tense when describing these rivers. The original Hebrew text reads thus:

"The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good; there is bdellium and the onyx stone. And the name of the second river is Gihon; the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush."

I have no idea if these were black nations or not but these inconsistencies need to be bore in mind.

At this point Adam was just created. Yes these are descendants of Noah but more importantly they are closer descendants of Ham and Kush respectively. Why you see that as "a problem" needs explaining.

Because Ham and Kush were born even later. How could these lands be named after people who did not yet exist?

People tell stories using past or present tenses all the time. All this tells me is that the Hebrew rendition was obviously the original and the christian one was written later after something had changed.

Two problems with this:

1.) One does not transcribe and translate an historic text by changing meanings and timelines. That's not translation, that's interpretation.

2.) By changing passages to the past tense, it appears that the original author was speaking in the past tense when he was not.

These are definitely Black nations. Havilah as I pointed out is a son of Kush and Kush is a son of Ham. These were all Black people.

Perhaps.

 

[OldLady]

The verse describes 4 rivers that exit the Garden near Eden and where they lead to.
The rivers lead to various levels of physicality.
It is our spiritual quest to stay in the Garden and not be tempted by anything outside the Garden.

The verse describes 4 rivers that exit the Garden near Eden and where they lead to.
The rivers lead to various levels of physicality.
It is our spiritual quest to stay in the Garden and not be tempted by anything outside the Garden.

Where did you get this metaphysical explanation and what makes you believe it is fact?

Do you really think you understand the context of a cherry picked verse?
Do you really believe your soul won’t live on after your body dies and you won’t see existence from a spiritual point of view?
Now read the verses in context; they are not a geography lesson.

You didnt answer my question. You suggested a metaphysical explanation but you didnt support it. I read the verses in context. Its describing where the garden of eden is at the time of the writing of Genesis. If no geography "lesson" as you put it is implied why mention directions, rivers, and the lands these rivers were in?

I thought most people thought the Garden of Eden was in the area of the Euphrates, which is in present day Iraq?
Though it may not have sported Adam and Eve and all that, the Bible does seem to be saying that its people originated in that physical spot and they described it.

 

[Asclepias]

This is a very important fact that should be taught.

Oh, for pity's sake.

You actually think what you read in the bible are "facts", important facts, no less? And that folks go to church to learn about facts?

Yep. Its a fact that this is in the bible. Yes its a important fact. It begs the question of why did white people try to make everything about whites instead of telling the truth?

I do not recall anything about the "COLOR" of adam or eve in the bible-----or even in the Midrash or Talmud. ------Why do you insist that
"white people" call Adam "white"?

I recall plenty of parts of the bible describing people as Black or the descended from other Blacks.

I dont insist white people call Adam white. I ask why do they call Adam white.when he was obviously of African appearance.

that is true-----the writings of the bible INDICATE that being "BLACK"
is an issue of NOTE suggesting that the general population in context
were NOT BLACK. Africa is a big continent

They were not in general the color Black but African in appearance. Only certain people can truly be Black. The "unchanging color" mentioned in the bible is reference to the darkest of people in Africa. Africa is home to Black and only Black people.

 

[rylah]

On mount Sinai.
Knowledge of Torah.

Show me in the Torah why its metaphysical instead of a geographical location. Can you do that?

Bereshit 1:1
Bereshit 28:13

How do You differentiate?

Neither of those have anything to do with the location of Eden and neither suggest a metaphysical instead of geographical explanation. Can you provide your logic if possible?

Verse 1 establishes the connection between the physical and metaphysical.
Verse 13 closes the cycle establishing a direct connection between earth and heaven through Yaakov's encounter with Hashem.

not so direct--------Yaakov had to buy a ladder at home depot

Did the ladder know it was Yaakov himself?
Or was it that the Home Depot came to Yaakov?