Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[Rustic]

Progressives aren't through trying to piss people off yet.

*****SAD SMILE*****

Conservatives aren't through playing the victim card and defending treason.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus you can't get any worse than that…

You can. You can kill US citizens so you can keep people as property.

But for all the love I have for Lincoln, suspending habeas corpus is utter bullshit. There was simply no reason for that, and that smacks of fascism.

Him suspending habeas corpus destroys 100% of his credibility…

Only in weak minds.

Only a piece of shit fascist would suspend habeas corpus…

 

[wjmacguffin]

Who exactly is offended by these historical monuments that have stood for hundreds of years? Who and why? And why all of a sudden did they become offensive?

I am offended that every city in the country has to have a MLK boulevard. I am offended that Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy and that Washington national airport was renamed Reagan airport.

You ask why people are offended by Confederate Statutes...and then you list things that offend you.

That means you completely understand why people might be offended by these things.

MLK Jr., Washington, Reagan, and Kennedy never fought against our country. Big difference.

As for the timing, it's because only recently have people felt like they could "win" in taking them down. They've been offensive for many, many years. What, would you use that same argument against the civil rights movement? "People never complained about segregation before, why did it suddenly become offensive?" (And no, I'm not saying the civil rights movement is equal to taking down Confederate statues. Just using an analogy.)

 

[wjmacguffin]

New Orleans has begun taking down Confederate monuments, moving them from public spaces to museums. Why is this controversial?

First, let's be honest: Taking up arms against the lawfully-elected government of the United States is treason. Sure, one man's treason is another man's freedom fighter. But IIRC (and please post links if I'm wrong so I can admit that clearly), the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

This isn't the case of a downtrodden, abused people rising up against a cruel, despotic government. IMO, that makes rebellion morally justified. But this is a case of people rising up against a democratic republic because they were worried the gov't would take away their slaves.

And I get that some folks want to change the Civil War into a noble struggle for state's rights. But let's remember two facts: 1) This is about the right to own black people as slaves, and 2) the feds hadn't trampled on that right when the South started war.

Now, I appreciate that the US Civil War is part of our history. We shouldn't ignore it or whitewash it. And there's nothing wrong with loving your state or respecting your ancestors. But why do some people want to keep statues and monuments dedicated to people who fought and killed US citizens? Would it be okay if a Muslim-American community built a statue of Nidal Hasan (the guy who killed 13 people at Fort Hood) and claim it's part of their heritage?

Seriously, why is removing these monuments to put into a museum so controversial?

Because Democrats want to erase their history so they can pretend they don't support racism.

Le sigh. Yet another conservative who cannot comprehend how political parties shifted over the years.

Back then, Dems were conservative and Reps were liberal. That's not 100% true because our definition of those labels has changed somewhat, but it still fits.

Dufus wants to pretend Democrats don't want to use skin color to tell people they can't have a job or fill a college opening today.

Loser knows he can't win this argument so he keeps trying to change the subject. Have fun with that, Sparky!

 

[Redfish]

Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

excellent points and exactly why those statues should remain.

do you libs want the Gettysburg battlefield in Pa plowed under? Just asking.

That's actually a good question. Sincerely, thank you.

For me, no. That would be whitewashing our history. Battlefields cannot be put in a museum someplace, and we still need to teach our Civil War in schools. My issue is with a monument to specific people because we build monuments to honor and thank people. We should not be doing that for people who fought against the United States and helped kill her people.

using your logic the Washington and Jefferson monuments in DC should be removed. Both were slave owners. By today's standards, they were terrible human beings.

See, that's the problem. We are trying to judge historical characters using today's beliefs of right and wrong.

When we do that we become no better than the muslims who are destroying buddhas in Afghanistan.

 

[wjmacguffin]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

 

[Weatherman2020]

New Orleans has begun taking down Confederate monuments, moving them from public spaces to museums. Why is this controversial?

First, let's be honest: Taking up arms against the lawfully-elected government of the United States is treason. Sure, one man's treason is another man's freedom fighter. But IIRC (and please post links if I'm wrong so I can admit that clearly), the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

This isn't the case of a downtrodden, abused people rising up against a cruel, despotic government. IMO, that makes rebellion morally justified. But this is a case of people rising up against a democratic republic because they were worried the gov't would take away their slaves.

And I get that some folks want to change the Civil War into a noble struggle for state's rights. But let's remember two facts: 1) This is about the right to own black people as slaves, and 2) the feds hadn't trampled on that right when the South started war.

Now, I appreciate that the US Civil War is part of our history. We shouldn't ignore it or whitewash it. And there's nothing wrong with loving your state or respecting your ancestors. But why do some people want to keep statues and monuments dedicated to people who fought and killed US citizens? Would it be okay if a Muslim-American community built a statue of Nidal Hasan (the guy who killed 13 people at Fort Hood) and claim it's part of their heritage?

Seriously, why is removing these monuments to put into a museum so controversial?

Because Democrats want to erase their history so they can pretend they don't support racism.

Le sigh. Yet another conservative who cannot comprehend how political parties shifted over the years.

Back then, Dems were conservative and Reps were liberal. That's not 100% true because our definition of those labels has changed somewhat, but it still fits.

Dufus wants to pretend Democrats don't want to use skin color to tell people they can't have a job or fill a college opening today.

Loser knows he can't win this argument so he keeps trying to change the subject. Have fun with that, Sparky!

You're the dufus claiming Democrats don't use skin color to grant people jobs or a college education. But we all know Democrats today love that idea.

 

[Redfish]

Who exactly is offended by these historical monuments that have stood for hundreds of years? Who and why? And why all of a sudden did they become offensive?

I am offended that every city in the country has to have a MLK boulevard. I am offended that Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy and that Washington national airport was renamed Reagan airport.

You ask why people are offended by Confederate Statutes...and then you list things that offend you.

That means you completely understand why people might be offended by these things.

MLK Jr., Washington, Reagan, and Kennedy never fought against our country. Big difference.

As for the timing, it's because only recently have people felt like they could "win" in taking them down. They've been offensive for many, many years. What, would you use that same argument against the civil rights movement? "People never complained about segregation before, why did it suddenly become offensive?" (And no, I'm not saying the civil rights movement is equal to taking down Confederate statues. Just using an analogy.)

geez, do you teach at Berkley? what a pile of BS.

 

[Weatherman2020]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

Takes a real moron to get worked up over a hundred year old statue, congrats.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Progressives aren't through trying to piss people off yet.

*****SAD SMILE*****

Conservatives aren't through playing the victim card and defending treason.

View attachment 123226


The one's playing the victim card are those demanding that the monuments be torn down and that Confederate soldier graves be desecrated against the laws that exist to honor those soldiers as US soldiers. All because progressives are snowflakes who have to find something to take offense too as they run for their safe place.

Just another slap in the face to the military by the progressives.

*****SMILE*****

It's sad that you need to change the subject in order to try and claim victory. This thread is discussing removing MONUMENTS, not graves. It's also sad that I predicted the snowflake charge before you made it.

Monuments honor our dead.

But hey, I get it. You know you're wrong, and that ol' cognitive dissonance gets the better of you. So you need to turn a statue in a public space into a grave, and chance removal into desecration. Again, victim card. "Wahh, I wants my statues to Lee and Davis! It's my heritage and I'm all offended and stuff! Leave the South alone!"

So removing a part of history makes you the big man?

Perhaps you and rest of the progressives can create some more Sedition Laws to make it illegal to even discuss the Civil War.

[
Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Educate yourself...

http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/85/425.pdf

If they were not to be honored as US vets why does Public Law 85-425 say otherwise.

You should also pay particular attention to...

SEC. 410. The Administrator shall pay to each person who served

in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America
during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and
subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such
person under the laws in effect on December 31, 1957, if his service

m such forces had been service in the military or naval service of the

United States."

Effective date. SEO, 2. This Act shall be effective from the first day of the second

calendar month following its enactment.

Approved May 28, 1958.

*****SMILE*****

 

[wjmacguffin]

Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

excellent points and exactly why those statues should remain.

do you libs want the Gettysburg battlefield in Pa plowed under? Just asking.

That's actually a good question. Sincerely, thank you.

For me, no. That would be whitewashing our history. Battlefields cannot be put in a museum someplace, and we still need to teach our Civil War in schools. My issue is with a monument to specific people because we build monuments to honor and thank people. We should not be doing that for people who fought against the United States and helped kill her people.

using your logic the Washington and Jefferson monuments in DC should be removed. Both were slave owners. By today's standards, they were terrible human beings.

See, that's the problem. We are trying to judge historical characters using today's beliefs of right and wrong.

When we do that we become no better than the muslims who are destroying buddhas in Afghanistan.

I already addressed this above, so lemme keep it short here.

No person is 100% good or evil. Every person has faults. Owning slaves is bad, but Washington and Jefferson also did a lot of good for this nation. Lee and Davis led an uprising against this nation that killed hundred of thousands of people. You cannot compare the two.

And pul-lease stop comparing Jefferson Davis to the Buddha.

 

[Redfish]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

Wow, but I bet you voted for the traitors Obama and Clinton. Hypocrisy = you.

 

[wjmacguffin]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

Takes a real moron to get worked up over a hundred year old statue, congrats.

So the age of a monument determines it's validity and morality? Cool, thanks. Didn't know that. Also, thanks for not addressing the violence and treason issues. Good to see you're giving up by changing the subject. That's a real common sight in this thread.

 

[Divine Wind]

....I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

Snowflakes. Snowflakes so unique, so special, their opinions trump everyone elses opinion, including all of history.

The fact we have a self-professed history teacher actively advocating rewriting history to become more PC is indicative of the problem our nation is facing.

 

[wjmacguffin]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

Wow, but I bet you voted for the traitors Obama and Clinton. Hypocrisy = you.

Neither Obama nor Clinton declared themselves an enemy of the US and organized an armed revolt to kill US solders in the hundreds of thousands. But I really appreciate you not actually defending your position anymore and moving into unrelated personal attacks. It's ok, you can just stop posting instead of admitting you're wrong.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Maybe, but conservatives don't riot and protest and destroy public and private property. Only leftists do that. The truth is that the company is scared of losing business if too many people know who they are. But its too late, everyone knows and they will probably be out of business when this is over.

The Klan, the ultimate Southern conservatives, did all that, fishyred.

 

[Redfish]

Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

excellent points and exactly why those statues should remain.

do you libs want the Gettysburg battlefield in Pa plowed under? Just asking.

That's actually a good question. Sincerely, thank you.

For me, no. That would be whitewashing our history. Battlefields cannot be put in a museum someplace, and we still need to teach our Civil War in schools. My issue is with a monument to specific people because we build monuments to honor and thank people. We should not be doing that for people who fought against the United States and helped kill her people.

using your logic the Washington and Jefferson monuments in DC should be removed. Both were slave owners. By today's standards, they were terrible human beings.

See, that's the problem. We are trying to judge historical characters using today's beliefs of right and wrong.

When we do that we become no better than the muslims who are destroying buddhas in Afghanistan.

I already addressed this above, so lemme keep it short here.

No person is 100% good or evil. Every person has faults. Owning slaves is bad, but Washington and Jefferson also did a lot of good for this nation. Lee and Davis led an uprising against this nation that killed hundred of thousands of people. You cannot compare the two.

And pul-lease stop comparing Jefferson Davis to the Buddha.

you are missing the point. Lee and Jackson also did many good things for their people and the country. But they are denigrated on one issue only. Whereas you ignore the fact that Washington and Jefferson held slaves.

I was not comparing Davis to Buddha, I was comparing intolerant American liberals to the Taliban.

 

[wjmacguffin]

....I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

Snowflakes. Snowflakes so unique, so special, their opinions trump everyone elses opinion, including all of history.

The fact we have a self-professed history teacher actively advocating rewriting history to become more PC is indicative of the problem our nation is facing.

I'm rewriting history? OK, I'll bite. Please explain what parts of Civil War history I'm rewriting, and please include links to sources backing up your claim. I'll be back after lunch to see what you have.

 

[JakeStarkey]

....I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

Snowflakes. Snowflakes so unique, so special, their opinions trump everyone elses opinion, including all of history.

The fact we have a self-professed history teacher actively advocating rewriting history to become more PC is indicative of the problem our nation is facing.

Divine Wind can't carry his points so the memes come out. Told you all so.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

excellent points and exactly why those statues should remain.

do you libs want the Gettysburg battlefield in Pa plowed under? Just asking.

That's actually a good question. Sincerely, thank you.

For me, no. That would be whitewashing our history. Battlefields cannot be put in a museum someplace, and we still need to teach our Civil War in schools. My issue is with a monument to specific people because we build monuments to honor and thank people. We should not be doing that for people who fought against the United States and helped kill her people.

using your logic the Washington and Jefferson monuments in DC should be removed. Both were slave owners. By today's standards, they were terrible human beings.

See, that's the problem. We are trying to judge historical characters using today's beliefs of right and wrong.

When we do that we become no better than the muslims who are destroying buddhas in Afghanistan.

I already addressed this above, so lemme keep it short here.

No person is 100% good or evil. Every person has faults. Owning slaves is bad, but Washington and Jefferson also did a lot of good for this nation. Lee and Davis led an uprising against this nation that killed hundred of thousands of people. You cannot compare the two.

And pul-lease stop comparing Jefferson Davis to the Buddha.

you are missing the point. Lee and Jackson also did many good things for their people and the country. But they are denigrated on one issue only. Whereas you ignore the fact that Washington and Jefferson held slaves.

I was not comparing Davis to Buddha, I was comparing intolerant American liberals to the Taliban.

Neither of your comparisons are sensible. Not at all.

 

[Weatherman2020]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Because all it takes is one dumbass armed guy/gal to kill over this. This ain't a popularity contest. It's doing what's right.

I agree that calling these places Square and Circle are dumb. But I'll take dumb over glorifying a traitor any day.

Takes a real moron to get worked up over a hundred year old statue, congrats.

So the age of a monument determines it's validity and morality? Cool, thanks. Didn't know that. Also, thanks for not addressing the violence and treason issues. Good to see you're giving up by changing the subject. That's a real common sight in this thread.

Typical leftist. True evil and true problems in the world, but being a coward you need to battle statues.