Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[wjmacguffin]

Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

Two brothers can be citizens of different nations. Therefore, your argument is invalid. But thanks for playing!

And if you define American as a citizen of the USA, then Confederate soldiers were not American because they became citizens of the CSA, not the USA. I mean, if you want to call them Americans, you have the right to do so. It's incorrect, but your opinion doesn't have to be correct.

But when they took up arms against their lawfully elected gov't, they became traitors. Then they sided with the US' enemy (the CSA), adding fuel to the traitor fire. I'm sorry, but that's just the way words work.

 

[Aries]

New Orleans has begun taking down Confederate monuments, moving them from public spaces to museums. Why is this controversial?

First, let's be honest: Taking up arms against the lawfully-elected government of the United States is treason. Sure, one man's treason is another man's freedom fighter. But IIRC (and please post links if I'm wrong so I can admit that clearly), the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

This isn't the case of a downtrodden, abused people rising up against a cruel, despotic government. IMO, that makes rebellion morally justified. But this is a case of people rising up against a democratic republic because they were worried the gov't would take away their slaves.

And I get that some folks want to change the Civil War into a noble struggle for state's rights. But let's remember two facts: 1) This is about the right to own black people as slaves, and 2) the feds hadn't trampled on that right when the South started war.

Now, I appreciate that the US Civil War is part of our history. We shouldn't ignore it or whitewash it. And there's nothing wrong with loving your state or respecting your ancestors. But why do some people want to keep statues and monuments dedicated to people who fought and killed US citizens? Would it be okay if a Muslim-American community built a statue of Nidal Hasan (the guy who killed 13 people at Fort Hood) and claim it's part of their heritage?

Seriously, why is removing these monuments to put into a museum so controversial?

I know I clicked thank you already, but, THANK YOU!

 

[Divine Wind]

"American" means a citizen of the United States of America. If I renounced my citizenship and moved to Canada, I would be Canadian, not American.

The south left the US and started their own country. That means they were NOT Americans. You really cannot get more simple than that.

What elementary school did you teach history? Sorry, but they were still Americans. However, your attitude toward Southerners explains a lot about your mindset.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Progressives aren't through trying to piss people off yet.

*****SAD SMILE*****

Conservatives aren't through playing the victim card and defending treason.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus you can't get any worse than that…

You can. You can kill US citizens so you can keep people as property.

But for all the love I have for Lincoln, suspending habeas corpus is utter bullshit. There was simply no reason for that, and that smacks of fascism.

 

[wjmacguffin]

"American" means a citizen of the United States of America. If I renounced my citizenship and moved to Canada, I would be Canadian, not American.

The south left the US and started their own country. That means they were NOT Americans. You really cannot get more simple than that.

What elementary school did you teach history? Sorry, but they were still Americans. However, your attitude toward Southerners explains a lot about your mindset.

Le sigh. Please define for me what "American" means to you. And I grew up in the south, thank you very much.

 

[Divine Wind]

....And if you define American as a citizen of the USA, then Confederate soldiers were not American because they became citizens of the CSA, not the USA. I mean, if you want to call them Americans, you have the right to do so. It's incorrect, but your opinion doesn't have to be correct.

But when they took up arms against their lawfully elected gov't, they became traitors. Then they sided with the US' enemy (the CSA), adding fuel to the traitor fire. I'm sorry, but that's just the way words work.

Big if. You're free to define all Southerners as Martians, Traitors or anything else you don't like but the truth remains they were all Americans.

 

[Rustic]

Progressives aren't through trying to piss people off yet.

*****SAD SMILE*****

Conservatives aren't through playing the victim card and defending treason.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus you can't get any worse than that…

You can. You can kill US citizens so you can keep people as property.

But for all the love I have for Lincoln, suspending habeas corpus is utter bullshit. There was simply no reason for that, and that smacks of fascism.

Him suspending habeas corpus destroys 100% of his credibility…

 

[Divine Wind]

"American" means a citizen of the United States of America. If I renounced my citizenship and moved to Canada, I would be Canadian, not American.

The south left the US and started their own country. That means they were NOT Americans. You really cannot get more simple than that.

What elementary school did you teach history? Sorry, but they were still Americans. However, your attitude toward Southerners explains a lot about your mindset.

Le sigh. Please define for me what "American" means to you. And I grew up in the south, thank you very much.

Dude, again, if you really did teach history then fill in the blank: Confederate States of ____________.

 

[Redfish]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Progressives aren't through trying to piss people off yet.

*****SAD SMILE*****

Conservatives aren't through playing the victim card and defending treason.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus you can't get any worse than that…

You can. You can kill US citizens so you can keep people as property.

But for all the love I have for Lincoln, suspending habeas corpus is utter bullshit. There was simply no reason for that, and that smacks of fascism.

Him suspending habeas corpus destroys 100% of his credibility…

Only in weak minds.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"American" means a citizen of the United States of America. If I renounced my citizenship and moved to Canada, I would be Canadian, not American.

The south left the US and started their own country. That means they were NOT Americans. You really cannot get more simple than that.

What elementary school did you teach history? Sorry, but they were still Americans. However, your attitude toward Southerners explains a lot about your mindset.

Le sigh. Please define for me what "American" means to you. And I grew up in the south, thank you very much.

Dude, again, if you really did teach history then fill in the blank: Confederate States of ____________.

An illegal government attempting to subvert the United States of _______________.

 

[rightwinger]

All the Confederate Monuments should be relocated to the zoo where monkeys can shit all over them

back to your normal stupidity, I see.

Just offering a compromise

Giving the racists an opportunity to visit their heroes in an appropriate environment

 

[Redfish]

One final point. only one construction company bid on this work. They covered their logos on their trucks and equipment, put plain shirts on their workers and are working at 2 am.

If this is such a popular project, why do that?

the city council did not appropriate any money to put them in a museum or any place else as some have claimed. Lee Circle will be Circle and Jackson square will be Square. Idiocy and PC taken to its ultimate stupidity.

I still want to know who is offended by this part of history. Are they the same people who ban free speech at Berkley? Wake up people. Your first amendment is being shit on as you sit back and watch.

The city did not want to confront angry armed unreconstructed confederates AND angry armed modern Americans.

Maybe, but conservatives don't riot and protest and destroy public and private property. Only leftists do that. The truth is that the company is scared of losing business if too many people know who they are. But its too late, everyone knows and they will probably be out of business when this is over.

 

[Redfish]

All the Confederate Monuments should be relocated to the zoo where monkeys can shit all over them

back to your normal stupidity, I see.

Just offering a compromise

Giving the racists an opportunity to visit their heroes in an appropriate environment

the racists can visit MLK boulevard in almost any US city. Sorry, winger, but the USA will never become the US of Obama. you will have to be satisfied to worship him in your private shrine in your basement.

 

[2aguy]

If they take down monuments to Confederate War Heroes....then they have to close the doors to Yale University......the founder of Yale was a man who sold slaves....and murdered slaves who were discipline problems.....if you are going to take down monuments to men, some who did not own slaves, then Yale must also be ended....

 

[xotoxi]

Who exactly is offended by these historical monuments that have stood for hundreds of years? Who and why? And why all of a sudden did they become offensive?

I am offended that every city in the country has to have a MLK boulevard. I am offended that Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy and that Washington national airport was renamed Reagan airport.

You ask why people are offended by Confederate Statutes...and then you list things that offend you.

That means you completely understand why people might be offended by these things.

 

[rightwinger]

People fought and died in the civil war for what they believed (and it was NOT about slavery).

oh yes it was

what the hell are you talking about?

Don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do. The civil war was not about slavery, there were slaves in the union states AFTER the war ended.

Agreed. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in Southern states, not elsewhere.

The Emancipation Proclamation
The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

How did the 13th amendment work out?

Better than the Three-Fifths Compromise. It was ratified on December 6th, 1965, eight months after the Civil War ended.

What does that have to do with the fact the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in secession states?

Emancipation was a major political blow to the south. Not because they were losing their slaves but because they were unable to get Europe to support their cause if it was about slavery
European countries were not going to fight in defense of slavery

Emancipation proclamation was only the first step in the process. 13th amendment freed all slaves forever and by 1870 they had the right to vote

Coincidence?

 

[wjmacguffin]

Last point: You cannot factually or morally say Confederates are US soldiers. Because they weren't. They were CSA solders. Again, it's sad that you need to lie to feel better about yourself. But whatever helps you get through the day.

Morally? WTF?

The fact remains they were all American soldiers, in some cases literally brothers fighting brothers, fathers fighting sons.

excellent points and exactly why those statues should remain.

do you libs want the Gettysburg battlefield in Pa plowed under? Just asking.

That's actually a good question. Sincerely, thank you.

For me, no. That would be whitewashing our history. Battlefields cannot be put in a museum someplace, and we still need to teach our Civil War in schools. My issue is with a monument to specific people because we build monuments to honor and thank people. We should not be doing that for people who fought against the United States and helped kill her people.

 

[Aries]

All the Confederate Monuments should be relocated to the zoo where monkeys can shit all over them

back to your normal stupidity, I see.

Just offering a compromise

Giving the racists an opportunity to visit their heroes in an appropriate environment

Lmaoo