Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[rightwinger]

...Not all southerners were terrorists....

Wow, you're backpedaling faster than a circus clown now!

Have you always struggled so much with your reading?

I guess that is the way it is with welchers

 

[Divine Wind]

still waiting-----------------------anyone?

Who ever claimed.....Removing monuments will reduce crime? stop poverty? fix the potholes? clean up the French quarter? make the Saints win the super bowl, bring more industry to the city? hire more cops? lower taxes?

There are many things that happen in our daily lives that do none of that

Translation: You are correct, Redfish. Removing the monuments doesn't do anything physical. It doesn't solve any social problems. What it does do is make Southern-haters like myself feel good and that's enough for me.

Thanks. Got it.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Not all southerners were terrorists....

Wow, you're backpedaling faster than a circus clown now!

Have you always struggled so much with your reading?

I guess that is the way it is with welchers

I've always read very well. Obviously much better than you.

Another thing I'm better at than you is telling the truth. You're the consistent liar and calling me a "welcher" not only proves it, but proves you are a bigot as well. Unsurprising as that is.

 

[rightwinger]

still waiting-----------------------anyone?

Who ever claimed.....Removing monuments will reduce crime? stop poverty? fix the potholes? clean up the French quarter? make the Saints win the super bowl, bring more industry to the city? hire more cops? lower taxes?

There are many things that happen in our daily lives that do none of that

Translation: You are correct, Redfish. Removing the monuments doesn't do anything physical. It doesn't solve any social problems. What it does do is make Southern-haters like myself feel good and that's enough for me.

Thanks. Got it.

Translation......What it does do is acknowledge that these monuments are a celebration of slavery and a reminder to blacks of their former status in New Orleans

Why don't we do this.......ask the black residents of New Orleans if they want the monuments to stay.

 

[rightwinger]

...Not all southerners were terrorists....

Wow, you're backpedaling faster than a circus clown now!

Have you always struggled so much with your reading?

I guess that is the way it is with welchers

I've always read very well. Obviously much better than you.

Another thing I'm better at than you is telling the truth. You're the consistent liar and calling me a "welcher" not only proves it, but proves you are a bigot as well. Unsurprising as that is.

Why don't you form a union with others who do not pay their bets?

 

[Divine Wind]

Translation......What it does do is acknowledge that these monuments are a celebration of slavery and a reminder to blacks of their former status in New Orleans

Why don't we do this.......ask the black residents of New Orleans if they want the monuments to stay.

Are you lying or just misguided? It's so hard to tell with you. OTOH, given your propensity for lying, I'm inclined to think the former.

While, of course, slavery was a big part of the Civil War and the reason the South seceded, the fact there were slaves in the North after the Civil War says a lot about who, exactly, supported slavery. The fact you constantly distort the truth is just more evidence you are a chronic liar.

Reconstruction and its Aftermath, a part of the African American Odyssey exhibition, is about the difficulty free blacks faced during the reconstruction period.
The Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 freed African Americans in rebel states, and after the Civil War, the Thirteenth Amendment emancipated all U.S. slaves wherever they were. As a result, the mass of Southern blacks now faced the difficulty Northern blacks had confronted--that of a free people surrounded by many hostile whites. One freedman, Houston Hartsfield Holloway, wrote, "For we colored people did not know how to be free and the white people did not know how to have a free colored person about them."

Even after the Emancipation Proclamation, two more years of war, service by African American troops, and the defeat of the Confederacy, the nation was still unprepared to deal with the question of full citizenship for its newly freed black population.

Reconstruction - American Civil War - HISTORY.com
At the outset of the Civil War, to the dismay of the more radical abolitionists in the North, President Abraham Lincoln did not make abolition of slavery a goal of the Union war effort.

Thirteenth Amendment - Black History - HISTORY.com
The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution officially abolished slavery in America, and was ratified on December 6, 1865, after the conclusion of the American Civil War....

....When the American Civil War (1861-65) began, President Abraham Lincoln (1809-65) carefully framed the conflict as concerning the preservation of the Union rather than the abolition of slavery. Although he personally found the practice of slavery abhorrent, he knew that neither Northerners nor the residents of the border slave states would support abolition as a war aim.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Not all southerners were terrorists....

Wow, you're backpedaling faster than a circus clown now!

Have you always struggled so much with your reading?

I guess that is the way it is with welchers

I've always read very well. Obviously much better than you.

Another thing I'm better at than you is telling the truth. You're the consistent liar and calling me a "welcher" not only proves it, but proves you are a bigot as well. Unsurprising as that is.

Why don't you form a union with others who do not pay their bets?

Translation: You are correct, DW, I'm both a liar and a bigot.

Calling people "welchers" is a slur against the Welsh. I'm sure you have many colorful names for blacks, Irish and Italians when you're sitting on the porch sipping White (of course) Zinfandels with your friends who are so white they are blue.

I'll pay off our bet when and if you win. I don't expect any lying fuckwads to pay off their bets.

 

[rightwinger]

Translation......What it does do is acknowledge that these monuments are a celebration of slavery and a reminder to blacks of their former status in New Orleans

Why don't we do this.......ask the black residents of New Orleans if they want the monuments to stay.

Are you lying or just misguided? It's so hard to tell with you. OTOH, given your propensity for lying, I'm inclined to think the former.

While, of course, slavery was a big part of the Civil War and the reason the South seceded, the fact there were slaves in the North after the Civil War says a lot about who, exactly, supported slavery. The fact you constantly distort the truth is just more evidence you are a chronic liar.

Reconstruction and its Aftermath, a part of the African American Odyssey exhibition, is about the difficulty free blacks faced during the reconstruction period.
The Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 freed African Americans in rebel states, and after the Civil War, the Thirteenth Amendment emancipated all U.S. slaves wherever they were. As a result, the mass of Southern blacks now faced the difficulty Northern blacks had confronted--that of a free people surrounded by many hostile whites. One freedman, Houston Hartsfield Holloway, wrote, "For we colored people did not know how to be free and the white people did not know how to have a free colored person about them."

Even after the Emancipation Proclamation, two more years of war, service by African American troops, and the defeat of the Confederacy, the nation was still unprepared to deal with the question of full citizenship for its newly freed black population.

Reconstruction - American Civil War - HISTORY.com
At the outset of the Civil War, to the dismay of the more radical abolitionists in the North, President Abraham Lincoln did not make abolition of slavery a goal of the Union war effort.

Thirteenth Amendment - Black History - HISTORY.com
The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution officially abolished slavery in America, and was ratified on December 6, 1865, after the conclusion of the American Civil War....

....When the American Civil War (1861-65) began, President Abraham Lincoln (1809-65) carefully framed the conflict as concerning the preservation of the Union rather than the abolition of slavery. Although he personally found the practice of slavery abhorrent, he knew that neither Northerners nor the residents of the border slave states would support abolition as a war aim.

The south formed their own nation to preserve slavery. A nation of 40 percent slave.
The north had less than 5 percent slave population. Mostly in Maryland and Kentucky. The rest of the states had no slaves

 

[Redfish]

I am still waiting for anyone to tell me how removing these statues is going to improve the city of New Orleans.

How will this reduce crime? stop poverty? fix the potholes? clean up the French quarter? make the Saints win the super bowl, bring more industry to the city? hire more cops? lower taxes?

What exactly is this going to accomplish? Anyone?????

still waiting-----------------------anyone?

Who ever claimed.....Removing monuments will reduce crime? stop poverty? fix the potholes? clean up the French quarter? make the Saints win the super bowl, bring more industry to the city? hire more cops? lower taxes?

There are many things that happen in our daily lives that do none of that

then exactly what will it accomplish, winger? this is a serious question. What is taking down historical statues going to accomplish?

 

[Redfish]

LOL. Please keep screaming that from the housetops: ALL SOUTHERNERS ARE TERRORISTS AND EQUAL TO AL-QAEDA!

It's why most Americans don't trust Hillary supporters; they're liars who hate millions of their fellow Americans.

It is not all Southerners engaging in terrorism. But all white southerners were complicit
They looked the other way, elected leaders who protected the terrorists, joined juries that gave terrorists a free pass

All white southerners bought in to the south's "peculiar institution", they actively supported segregation, very few participated in the Civil Rights movement, they voted for segregationists

you are totally full of shit and the most biased uninformed poster on this board. Generalizations are always wrong, as are you.

It is not a generalization, it is supported by history

While most southerners did not own slaves, they supported elected officials who fought for slavery. Making them complicit
Not all southerners were terrorists. But they supported and covered up for those who were
Elected southern governments supported slavery and instituted and enforce Jim Crow Laws

your regional bias has overcome your ability to think and reason. There were slaves in Illinois (land of Lincoln) and other northern and western states AFTER the civil war. Only 4% of southerners owned slaves. your "complicit" argument doesn't stand up to a logic test.

Yes, there were racist assholes in the south before and after the civil war, but those same assholes were in the north, west, and central states as well, and most of them were democrats.

4% of southerners owned slaves ...but slaves made up 40% of the southern population

Yet, with only 4% actually owning those 4 million slaves, elected officials unilaterally supported maintaining and protecting the right to own slaves. It takes over 50% to get elected. That makes all southerners complicit in the institution of slavery

In fact, no elected officials in the south were opposed to slavery

The ancient Egyptians were not opposed to slavery either. Both were wrong, so should we tear down the pyramids?

 

[Redfish]

Translation......What it does do is acknowledge that these monuments are a celebration of slavery and a reminder to blacks of their former status in New Orleans

Why don't we do this.......ask the black residents of New Orleans if they want the monuments to stay.

Are you lying or just misguided? It's so hard to tell with you. OTOH, given your propensity for lying, I'm inclined to think the former.

While, of course, slavery was a big part of the Civil War and the reason the South seceded, the fact there were slaves in the North after the Civil War says a lot about who, exactly, supported slavery. The fact you constantly distort the truth is just more evidence you are a chronic liar.

Reconstruction and its Aftermath, a part of the African American Odyssey exhibition, is about the difficulty free blacks faced during the reconstruction period.
The Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 freed African Americans in rebel states, and after the Civil War, the Thirteenth Amendment emancipated all U.S. slaves wherever they were. As a result, the mass of Southern blacks now faced the difficulty Northern blacks had confronted--that of a free people surrounded by many hostile whites. One freedman, Houston Hartsfield Holloway, wrote, "For we colored people did not know how to be free and the white people did not know how to have a free colored person about them."

Even after the Emancipation Proclamation, two more years of war, service by African American troops, and the defeat of the Confederacy, the nation was still unprepared to deal with the question of full citizenship for its newly freed black population.

Reconstruction - American Civil War - HISTORY.com
At the outset of the Civil War, to the dismay of the more radical abolitionists in the North, President Abraham Lincoln did not make abolition of slavery a goal of the Union war effort.

Thirteenth Amendment - Black History - HISTORY.com
The 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution officially abolished slavery in America, and was ratified on December 6, 1865, after the conclusion of the American Civil War....

....When the American Civil War (1861-65) began, President Abraham Lincoln (1809-65) carefully framed the conflict as concerning the preservation of the Union rather than the abolition of slavery. Although he personally found the practice of slavery abhorrent, he knew that neither Northerners nor the residents of the border slave states would support abolition as a war aim.

The south formed their own nation to preserve slavery. A nation of 40 percent slave.
The north had less than 5 percent slave population. Mostly in Maryland and Kentucky. The rest of the states had no slaves

slavery was wrong, we all agree. the statues in NOLA are not monuments to slavery any more than the Washington monument is a monument to slavery

 

[WinterBorn]

If it was the south trying to hang on to slavery, why was slavery not mentioned as an issue until two years into the civil war? Why was the north allowed to keep slaves for years after the civil war was over?

Why was slavery not mentioned? WTF?

Slavery was mentioned in every state's secession. It was specifically mentioned in the confederate states constitution, and the vice president of the confederacy called it the cornerstone of the secession and of the confederacy. Before Lincoln's election, the southern states had specifically talked about defending their right to own slaves. The idea that it was not mentioned is based either in ignorance or lies.

 

[Redfish]

If it was the south trying to hang on to slavery, why was slavery not mentioned as an issue until two years into the civil war? Why was the north allowed to keep slaves for years after the civil war was over?

Why was slavery not mentioned? WTF?

Slavery was mentioned in every state's secession. It was specifically mentioned in the confederate states constitution, and the vice president of the confederacy called it the cornerstone of the secession and of the confederacy. Before Lincoln's election, the southern states had specifically talked about defending their right to own slaves. The idea that it was not mentioned is based either in ignorance or lies.

slavery was not exclusively a southern thing. Slavery existed in the northern and western states as well and continued in some places in the north after the civil war.

No one thinks slavery was right and everyone agrees that it should have been stopped.

slavery exists today in the mid east and Africa, why no liberal outrage about that?

As to the statues in NOLA, if we ignore history we fail to learn from it. But to be consistent, you must demand that the Washington monument be taken down since Washington was a slave owner.

 

[WinterBorn]

People fought and died in the civil war for what they believed (and it was NOT about slavery).

oh yes it was

what the hell are you talking about?

Don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do. The civil war was not about slavery, there were slaves in the union states AFTER the war ended.

Not for very long. And not on a large scale. What ever slavery there was in the north may have existed after the civil war, but was very short-lived. The civil war ended May 9th 1865. The 13th amendment to the US Constitution was passed by congress in January of 1865 and ratified by the states on December 6th, 1865. So your claim, while possibly technically correct, was only 7 months long.

from:13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary Documents of American History (Virtual Programs & Services, Library of Congress)
"The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865"

 

[WinterBorn]

If it was the south trying to hang on to slavery, why was slavery not mentioned as an issue until two years into the civil war? Why was the north allowed to keep slaves for years after the civil war was over?

Why was slavery not mentioned? WTF?

Slavery was mentioned in every state's secession. It was specifically mentioned in the confederate states constitution, and the vice president of the confederacy called it the cornerstone of the secession and of the confederacy. Before Lincoln's election, the southern states had specifically talked about defending their right to own slaves. The idea that it was not mentioned is based either in ignorance or lies.

slavery was not exclusively a southern thing. Slavery existed in the northern and western states as well and continued in some places in the north after the civil war.

No one thinks slavery was right and everyone agrees that it should have been stopped.

slavery exists today in the mid east and Africa, why no liberal outrage about that?

As to the statues in NOLA, if we ignore history we fail to learn from it. But to be consistent, you must demand that the Washington monument be taken down since Washington was a slave owner.

George Washington never took up arms against the United States of America specifically to preserve the institution of slavery.

 

[Redfish]

People fought and died in the civil war for what they believed (and it was NOT about slavery).

oh yes it was

what the hell are you talking about?

Don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do. The civil war was not about slavery, there were slaves in the union states AFTER the war ended.

Not for very long. And not on a large scale. What ever slavery there was in the north may have existed after the civil war, but was very short-lived. The civil war ended May 9th 1865. The 13th amendment to the US Constitution was passed by congress in January of 1865 and ratified by the states on December 6th, 1865. So your claim, while possibly technically correct, was only 7 months long.

from:13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary Documents of American History (Virtual Programs & Services, Library of Congress)
"The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865"

yeah, so what? facts are facts. slavery was not solely a southern institution as claimed by you, winger, and several others.

 

[Redfish]

If it was the south trying to hang on to slavery, why was slavery not mentioned as an issue until two years into the civil war? Why was the north allowed to keep slaves for years after the civil war was over?

Why was slavery not mentioned? WTF?

Slavery was mentioned in every state's secession. It was specifically mentioned in the confederate states constitution, and the vice president of the confederacy called it the cornerstone of the secession and of the confederacy. Before Lincoln's election, the southern states had specifically talked about defending their right to own slaves. The idea that it was not mentioned is based either in ignorance or lies.

slavery was not exclusively a southern thing. Slavery existed in the northern and western states as well and continued in some places in the north after the civil war.

No one thinks slavery was right and everyone agrees that it should have been stopped.

slavery exists today in the mid east and Africa, why no liberal outrage about that?

As to the statues in NOLA, if we ignore history we fail to learn from it. But to be consistent, you must demand that the Washington monument be taken down since Washington was a slave owner.

George Washington never took up arms against the United States of America specifically to preserve the institution of slavery.

No, but he and Jefferson were slave owners. They believed that whites were a superior race and that blacks could be sold into slavery. By your own definitions, they were evil, but yet some of our largest monuments are to them.

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the left on this subject.

 

[WinterBorn]

People fought and died in the civil war for what they believed (and it was NOT about slavery).

oh yes it was

what the hell are you talking about?

Don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do. The civil war was not about slavery, there were slaves in the union states AFTER the war ended.

Not for very long. And not on a large scale. What ever slavery there was in the north may have existed after the civil war, but was very short-lived. The civil war ended May 9th 1865. The 13th amendment to the US Constitution was passed by congress in January of 1865 and ratified by the states on December 6th, 1865. So your claim, while possibly technically correct, was only 7 months long.

from:13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary Documents of American History (Virtual Programs & Services, Library of Congress)
"The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865"

yeah, so what? facts are facts. slavery was not solely a southern institution as claimed by you, winger, and several others.

Would you care to point out where I said it was an exclusively southern institution? Good luck finding that one.

 

[WinterBorn]

If it was the south trying to hang on to slavery, why was slavery not mentioned as an issue until two years into the civil war? Why was the north allowed to keep slaves for years after the civil war was over?

Why was slavery not mentioned? WTF?

Slavery was mentioned in every state's secession. It was specifically mentioned in the confederate states constitution, and the vice president of the confederacy called it the cornerstone of the secession and of the confederacy. Before Lincoln's election, the southern states had specifically talked about defending their right to own slaves. The idea that it was not mentioned is based either in ignorance or lies.

slavery was not exclusively a southern thing. Slavery existed in the northern and western states as well and continued in some places in the north after the civil war.

No one thinks slavery was right and everyone agrees that it should have been stopped.

slavery exists today in the mid east and Africa, why no liberal outrage about that?

As to the statues in NOLA, if we ignore history we fail to learn from it. But to be consistent, you must demand that the Washington monument be taken down since Washington was a slave owner.

George Washington never took up arms against the United States of America specifically to preserve the institution of slavery.

No, but he and Jefferson were slave owners. They believed that whites were a superior race and that blacks could be sold into slavery. By your own definitions, they were evil, but yet some of our largest monuments are to them.

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the left on this subject.

Did I say we should tear down the statue of every person who owned slaves? Again, please point out where I said such a thing.

But there is a huge difference between owning slaves and seceding from the USA and taking up arms against the US to preserve the institution of slavery.

 

[Redfish]

People fought and died in the civil war for what they believed (and it was NOT about slavery).

oh yes it was

what the hell are you talking about?

Don't make yourself look more stupid than you already do. The civil war was not about slavery, there were slaves in the union states AFTER the war ended.

Not for very long. And not on a large scale. What ever slavery there was in the north may have existed after the civil war, but was very short-lived. The civil war ended May 9th 1865. The 13th amendment to the US Constitution was passed by congress in January of 1865 and ratified by the states on December 6th, 1865. So your claim, while possibly technically correct, was only 7 months long.

from:13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary Documents of American History (Virtual Programs & Services, Library of Congress)
"The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865"

yeah, so what? facts are facts. slavery was not solely a southern institution as claimed by you, winger, and several others.

Would you care to point out where I said it was an exclusively southern institution? Good luck finding that one.

ok, I stand corrected, it was some of your fellow lefties who said that, not you. Happy now?