Why is the DOW still going down?

[Modbert]

I agree with you on this. But it's just more of wrong Bush had done. It's propesterous to think that spending will get us out of a hole, when it was spending that brought us here. Really foolish to think wars and welfare don't have negative consequences.

It's incorrect to say spending has brought us here. It's rash wars, deregulation, and poor decisions on the part of the Bush Administration that have brought us to where we are now.

Clinton began the deregulation though, but Bush brought it to the level that it currently got to.

 

[52ndStreet]

Its called economic Terrorism. And it is also a global economy.

 

[mash107]

I agree with you on this. But it's just more of wrong Bush had done. It's propesterous to think that spending will get us out of a hole, when it was spending that brought us here. Really foolish to think wars and welfare don't have negative consequences.

It's incorrect to say spending has brought us here. It's rash wars, deregulation, and poor decisions on the part of the Bush Administration that have brought us to where we are now.

Clinton began the deregulation though, but Bush brought it to the level that it currently got to.

1- Wars are a form of spending. And most Keynesians agree that this is the best kind of spending, no? It's what supposedly pulled us out of the GD.

2- All the regulation in the world will do nothing if there's no regulation on the money supply. Asset bubbles form because of forced credit expansions.

3- Spending is why so many are unemployed or underemployed. When the bubble economy finds a needle to prick it, all that's left is the foundation. Ours has been undermined by a government living way beyond our means for decades.

 

[Modbert]

1- Wars are a form of spending. And most Keynesians agree that this is the best kind of spending, no? It's what supposedly pulled us out of the GD.

2- All the regulation in the world will do nothing if there's no regulation on the money supply. Asset bubbles form because of forced credit expansions.

3- Spending is why so many are unemployed or underemployed. When the bubble economy finds a needle to prick it, all that's left is the foundation. Ours has been undermined by a government living way beyond our means for decades.

1.) Actually, the amount of open jobs left by the war pulled us out of the GD. That and the fact all these people fighting overseas were being paid. The New Deal also helped to a point.

2.) Regulation on money supply is there, however the deregulation and no oversight on Wall Street has gotten us the business environment we now live in.

3.) Again, rash wars among other things has undermined our government and our country for a very long time now.

 

[Sinatra]

I don't think so, Wall Street is punishing Obama in kind for not saying what they want him to say.

Besides, I'm not a Democrat and I have already disagreed with Obama several times. However, Republicans and Wall Street would all be smiling and laughing joyfully if this was all tax cuts. So don't give me that bullshit.

Wall Street is punishing Obama ?

People are losing money on purpose just to make Obama look bad ?

Not sure i follow you there ........

This is how the liberal brain works. Don't try to understand it.

When the markets go down under a Republican, it is the republicans fault, but when it goes down under Obama its the markets fault.

These people literally live in a fantasy world.

Remember these are the same people who told us the laws of supply and demand don't work. So why are we surprised they do not understand the effects of dumbing liquidity on the market at the wrong time, when a recovery is already under way. Thats why they do not get it will cause stagflation.

That is what this bill will do, because far to much of it, will not even start to have an effect for a year or more, when the market will already be recovering, and all they will be doing is causing Inflationary pressure, and tighter credit markets.

China and Japan, the 2 biggest buyers of our Debt, are now them selves running Deficits, and offer bonds to sell their Debt on the market, so they will not by buying this new Debt of ours.

Obama will have to print this money, anyone who does not believe that, does not have a clue what is going on here.

Great response. Amazing how a few in here simply ignore reality.

The market's response is crystal clear, and it is a reflection of America as a whole. We are extremely nervous over this massive spending bill - and that is what it is - spending, not stimulus.

Obama continues appear uncertain, his oratory gives no detail, and less real direction, and the nation, including Wall Street, are starting to collectively brace for tougher times. Most of us are hoping for the best, while an increasing number expects much worse.

 

[mash107]

1- Wars are a form of spending. And most Keynesians agree that this is the best kind of spending, no? It's what supposedly pulled us out of the GD.

2- All the regulation in the world will do nothing if there's no regulation on the money supply. Asset bubbles form because of forced credit expansions.

3- Spending is why so many are unemployed or underemployed. When the bubble economy finds a needle to prick it, all that's left is the foundation. Ours has been undermined by a government living way beyond our means for decades.

1.) Actually, the amount of open jobs left by the war pulled us out of the GD. That and the fact all these people fighting overseas were being paid. The New Deal also helped to a point.

2.) Regulation on money supply is there, however the deregulation and no oversight on Wall Street has gotten us the business environment we now live in.

3.) Again, rash wars among other things has undermined our government and our country for a very long time now.

1- Depression didn't end until the soldiers got home in 1945. Unemployment went down in the early 40s, sure-- drafting 10 million men will have that effect. With women in 1945 trained and willing to do work, and a lot of forced savings via the rationing system, there was labor and capital ready to roll. Today, we just have the labor. Capital is being starved and misdirected and misallocated and misspent on wars, welfare and other big government projects.

2- Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates to below market value. There was and is no proper regulation on the money supply. It should, like all things, be regulated by the market, or at least, the next best thing-- gold. If you give someone free money, and the ability to conjure money out of nowhere (through leveraging), a majority will act rash and foolishly, only looking at where they can profit in the near term.

3- Agreed. Welfare and entitlements eventually must go as well. It's going to be a choice between a dollar that has value and welfare-- and given this and our previous adminstration's actions, it appears grim.

 

[Diuretic]

....

Great response. Amazing how a few in here simply ignore reality.

The market's response is crystal clear, and it is a reflection of America as a whole. We are extremely nervous over this massive spending bill - and that is what it is - spending, not stimulus.

Obama continues appear uncertain, his oratory gives no detail, and less real direction, and the nation, including Wall Street, are starting to collectively brace for tougher times. Most of us are hoping for the best, while an increasing number expects much worse.

I suspect that most of the people involved if they've been educated in economics have been exposed to the doctrine that began in the late 1960s that attacked Keynes. It could be that they've only been exposed to the monetarist view and either don't understand Keynes or have been indoctrinated into being blindly critical of Keynes. So when a Kenynesian policy is implemented (assuming it is) then they are either ignorant of it or outright hostile to it.

But for those who are critical of Obama's policy I have to ask, what's the alternative? Is there one? I know some have said let firms fail and all the rest of it and that's fine if one or two firms fail and are replaced (assuming they need to be replaced) but this is not about one or two firms, it's about the US and the global economy. I suspect Obama has no other choice but to act in this manner.

 

[wimpy77]

Or he could drag this country down to a 3rd rate socialist shithole and you'll still say he's a great President.

Oh wait .........

I don't think so, Wall Street is punishing Obama in kind for not saying what they want him to say.

What do they want him to say? Wall street typically loves government spending and bailouts. That they aren't pleased with THIS bill is kind of interesting, really.

paulie is correct, wall street did not like this stimulus at all and they killed him today for it. also a few market experts said they believe the last 2 months of has been a false bottom and the market is in a bottoming process.

 

[wimpy77]

The market is going down because the bear funds know they can push the market down. Simple as that. There is little good news, investors who have cash - and there are a lot of them - are simply sitting on their hands, and the market believes the government is as impotent as it was under the Bush administration. So the bears are firing away.

When it turns, though, it will turn very hard.

yep, jim cramer says that when the market turns hold on to your drawers

 

[DiveCon]

Hey KMAN, don't let your partisan hackery show a little more. I mean hell, Obama could cure Cancer himself at this point, fix the Economy, bring about world peace and you'd still say he's a horrible President.

This is such a stupid question asked upon your part but not surprised.

gee, you mean like YOU guys have been saying of Bush for the last 8 hfucking YEARS


get used to it
its going to get worse
you guys bought an empty suit
you thought Bush was bad, you aint seen nuthing yet

 

[Article 15]

We were told that this would be a rough year for everyone. IMO, anybody who thought this bill would make the market go from bear to bull overnight were only fooling themselves. Again, we were told that this wouldn't work right away ... in fact we were told that it might not work at all. Does that make me feel warm inside? Of course not but we gotta do something and I'm hoping for the best.

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that one of the bigger hacks on the board posted this nonsense because that's all it is ... a squeak coming from someone who would probably sue Obama if he broke his only child's ribs while administering CPR and saving saving their life.

 

[Article 15]

Hey KMAN, don't let your partisan hackery show a little more. I mean hell, Obama could cure Cancer himself at this point, fix the Economy, bring about world peace and you'd still say he's a horrible President.

This is such a stupid question asked upon your part but not surprised.

gee, you mean like YOU guys have been saying of Bush for the last 8 hfucking YEARS


get used to it
its going to get worse
you guys bought an empty suit
you thought Bush was bad, you aint seen nuthing yet

Two wrongs don't make a right. This OP is pure crap.

 

[DiveCon]

We were told that this would be a rough year for everyone. IMO, anybody who thought this bill would make the market go from bear to bull overnight were only fooling themselves. Again, we were told that this wouldn't work right away ... in fact we were told that it might not work at all. Does that make me feel warm inside? Of course not but we gotta do something and I'm hoping for the best.

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that one of the bigger hacks on the board posted this nonsense because that's all it is ... a squeak coming from someone who would probably sue Obama if he broke his only child's ribs while administering CPR and saving saving their life.

its not like this stuff hasnt been tried before
there is no way this will do anything BUT fail
i didnt believe it would work when Bush did it, why should i now all of a sudden assume that Obama doing the SAME failed BS will now do anything any different?

 

[DiveCon]

Hey KMAN, don't let your partisan hackery show a little more. I mean hell, Obama could cure Cancer himself at this point, fix the Economy, bring about world peace and you'd still say he's a horrible President.

This is such a stupid question asked upon your part but not surprised.

gee, you mean like YOU guys have been saying of Bush for the last 8 hfucking YEARS


get used to it
its going to get worse
you guys bought an empty suit
you thought Bush was bad, you aint seen nuthing yet

Two wrongs don't make a right. This OP is pure crap.

the difference here is, the complaints we have are valid
and we complained about Bush doing this very same crap
now, thats consistency

 

[Article 15]

We were told that this would be a rough year for everyone. IMO, anybody who thought this bill would make the market go from bear to bull overnight were only fooling themselves. Again, we were told that this wouldn't work right away ... in fact we were told that it might not work at all. Does that make me feel warm inside? Of course not but we gotta do something and I'm hoping for the best.

It doesn't come as a surprise to me that one of the bigger hacks on the board posted this nonsense because that's all it is ... a squeak coming from someone who would probably sue Obama if he broke his only child's ribs while administering CPR and saving saving their life.

its not like this stuff hasnt been tried before
there is no way this will do anything BUT fail
i didnt believe it would work when Bush did it, why should i now all of a sudden assume that Obama doing the SAME failed BS will now do anything any different?

You don't have to assume it's going to work, bro. I, too, don't know if it's going to work. But I'm not going to declare it a failure before the ink can dry on the bill either.

From what I remember (and correct me if I am wrong) of Bush's stimulus bills weren't they just tax breaks and rebate checks?

 

[Article 15]

gee, you mean like YOU guys have been saying of Bush for the last 8 hfucking YEARS


get used to it
its going to get worse
you guys bought an empty suit
you thought Bush was bad, you aint seen nuthing yet

Two wrongs don't make a right. This OP is pure crap.

the difference here is, the complaints we have are valid
and we complained about Bush doing this very same crap
now, thats consistency

There is nothing valid about his OP.

 

[DiveCon]

Two wrongs don't make a right. This OP is pure crap.

the difference here is, the complaints we have are valid
and we complained about Bush doing this very same crap
now, thats consistency

There is nothing valid about his OP.

sure they are valid
the market will react to what it believes is happening
and the record for these kinds of "stimuli" is well known
they dont work

 

[Diuretic]

But it might just save the economy.

 

[DiveCon]

But it might just save the economy.

it never has before?
why will this all of a sudden change the track record?

 

[Diuretic]

It saved the world's capitalist economy after the Great Depression. Since it has a track record of success it might be worth trying again.