Zone1 Why is evil allowed in the world?

[ding]

* Vacuous Fortune Cookie Aphorisms *
Most certain is that when one finally arrives at their destiny , they will be dead and no longer be cognizant of knowing any thing .

This supposes that all there is is the material world. As I work through the first cause conundrum, I don't see how anything material can be eternal and unchanging. Ergo, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of the material world. It is primarily physicists who have posited the interplay of mind and matter and the primacy of mind.

 

[theHawk]

Let's take a closer look at the resurrection accounts in the Gospels of Matthew and John. Here, I will provide a detailed comparison to underscore the contradictions between these two accounts.

Matthew 28:1-20:

1. Two Women at the Tomb: Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" go to see the sepulchre.
2. Earthquake and Angel: A great earthquake occurs, and the angel of the Lord descends, rolls back the stone, and sits on it.
3. Angel's Appearance: His countenance is like lightning, and his raiment white as snow.
4. Guards' Reaction: The guards shake and become like dead men out of fear.
5. Angel's Message: The angel tells the women that Jesus has risen, shows them the empty tomb, and instructs them to inform the disciples that Jesus will meet them in Galilee.
6. Women Meet Jesus: On their way to tell the disciples, the women meet Jesus, hold his feet, and worship him.

John 20:1-18:

1. One Woman at the Tomb: Mary Magdalene comes alone to the sepulchre while it is still dark.
2. Stone Already Moved: She sees the stone already taken away from the tomb entrance.
3. Mary's Reaction: Without seeing anyone or talking to any angel, she runs to inform Simon Peter and the other disciple that Jesus' body is missing.
4. Disciples' Investigation: Peter and the other disciple run to the tomb, see the linen cloths, but do not encounter any angels or divine beings.
5. Mary's Return and Vision: Mary returns to the tomb, sees two angels sitting where Jesus' body had lain, and they ask her why she is weeping. She responds that she doesn't know where Jesus' body is.
6. Encounter with Jesus: She then turns around, sees Jesus but mistakes him for the gardener until he calls her name. Jesus tells her not to touch him because he has not yet ascended to the Father. Mary then goes to inform the disciples of what she has seen and heard.

Key Contradictions:

1. Number of Women:
   
   • Matthew: Two women (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary).
   • John: Only Mary Magdalene.
2. Time of Arrival:
   
   • Matthew: At dawn.
   • John: While it is still dark.
3. Presence of the Angel:
   
   • Matthew: Angel of the Lord descends with an earthquake, rolls back the stone, and sits on it.
   • John: No angelic descent. The stone is already moved when Mary arrives.
4. Initial Reactions:
   
   • Matthew: The women are informed by the angel that Jesus has risen and leave the tomb with joy to inform the disciples.
   • John: Mary Magdalene, seeing the stone rolled away, immediately runs to inform Peter and the other disciple that Jesus’ body is missing.
5. Angelic Interaction:
   
   • Matthew: The angel speaks to the women immediately.
   • John: Mary sees two angels only after returning to the tomb following her initial visit and the disciples' inspection.
6. Jesus’ Interaction with the Women:
   
   • Matthew: Jesus meets the women on their way to tell the disciples and allows them to touch his feet and worship him.
   • John: Jesus meets Mary Magdalene at the tomb, and she initially mistakes him for the gardener. He explicitly tells her not to touch him.
7. State of the Disciples' Knowledge:
   
   • Matthew: The women are explicitly informed by the angel and see Jesus before informing the disciples, indicating they know Jesus has risen.
   • John: Mary Magdalene initially informs the disciples that Jesus' body is missing. It’s only after her encounter with Jesus that she realizes he has risen.

These contradictions between the two accounts are glaring and cannot be harmonized without significant mental gymnastics. The differences in the number of women, the timing, the presence and actions of angels, and Jesus' interactions with the women highlight the inconsistencies. Any attempt to reconcile these discrepancies undermines the straightforward reading of the texts.

Second Error:

In the Gospel of Matthew, there is a significant contradiction regarding the reference to the "firstborn son of God" being called out of Egypt. Matthew 2:15 states:

“Out of Egypt I called my son.”

Matthew uses this to explain Jesus’ return from Egypt after the death of Herod. However, a closer examination of the original source in the book of Hosea reveals a clear discrepancy. Hosea 11:1 says:

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”

Context in Hosea:

1. Israel as the Son: In Hosea, the “son” clearly refers to Israel, not Jesus. This passage recounts the historical event of the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt under Moses’ leadership.
2. Idolatry and Disobedience: Hosea continues in verse 2, highlighting Israel's disobedience: "The more they were called, the more they went away; they kept sacrificing to the Baals and burning offerings to idols." This indicates that the "son" who was called out of Egypt fell into idol worship, which is incompatible with the sinless nature of Jesus.

No contradictions.

Between all the Gospel accounts of the tomb there were in fact at least five women that went there. Just because one Gospel account only mentions one, doesn’t mean the others weren’t there. You claim John’s account says that ONLY Mary went there, this is false. It just gives the account that Mary went there. This is the way the Bible is written, only the basic facts are usually given, with very little exposition or descriptions of everything else going on in the event being described.

The same goes for your other claims.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No contradictions.

Between all the Gospel accounts of the tomb there were in fact at least five women that went there. Just because one Gospel account only mentions one, doesn’t mean the others weren’t there. You claim John’s account says that ONLY Mary went there, this is false. It just gives the account that Mary went there. This is the way the Bible is written, only the basic facts are usually given, with very little exposition or descriptions of everything else going on in the event being described.

The same goes for your other claims.

Yeah right. You're ignoring everything else that was presented. Believe whatever toots your horn.

 

[theHawk]

Now, that's an angle I haven't considered before. So, man's deceitful nature is just QUALITY CONTROL to cull the defective units in his humankind manufacturing process. I guess quality control is important, but I wouldn't expect a perfect creator to need quality control.

Lately I stumbled upon some videos of a Father who performs exorcisms on possessed people, he had some very interesting things to say about demons (who are all fallen angels) and the devil himself who has encountered in several possessions.

What I gathered from this father is this:

Every angel was created for a specific task. For example one demon told him he was created to protect the trees. Most answer that they were created to prepare the way for the Lady (Queen Mary).

All the demons universally hate Mary the most, and it is usually her presence that finally drives them out.

The devil is manifested into three distinct personalities:
Satan - the inversion of the Father. He is the Father of Lies.
Lucifer - the inversion of Christ. Lucifer’s name means “Light from Light”.
Beelzebub - the inversion of the Holy Spirit. He is the demon of fear.

It is assumed God cursed the devil in this way because the devil wanted to be God.

But what made the devil rebel in the first place?
When he saw that Mary was the perfect reflection of God. Her (inner) beauty and humility and self sacrifice was so much greater than Lucifer’s, and he became jealous of that. He couldn’t stand that a human was more than him.

All the demons are extremely jealous of humans. They want us all to suffer in their agony, by taking away our focus in God. “Anything but God”, is their focus.

Don’t know that any of that can answer “why” God allowed such evil. These angels were given a responsibility, and they failed at it. They wanted a “lesser good” over God.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they seeded that evil into themselves and all their descendants. Perhaps God gave us this challenge to see if we can overcome it.

 

[theHawk]

Yeah right. You're ignoring everything else that was presented. Believe whatever toots your horn.

I already proved you were lying. You claimed John says ONLY Mary showed up to the tomb. That is a lie. Why would I waste my time debunking the rest of your lies. If the first thing on your list is a lie, then the rest are too.

 

[BULLDOG]

Lately I stumbled upon some videos of a Father who performs exorcisms on possessed people, he had some very interesting things to say about demons (who are all fallen angels) and the devil himself who has encountered in several possessions.

What I gathered from this father is this:

Every angel was created for a specific task. For example one demon told him he was created to protect the trees. Most answer that they were created to prepare the way for the Lady (Queen Mary).

All the demons universally hate Mary the most, and it is usually her presence that finally drives them out.

The devil is manifested into three distinct personalities:
Satan - the inversion of the Father. He is the Father of Lies.
Lucifer - the inversion of Christ. Lucifer’s name means “Light from Light”.
Beelzebub - the inversion of the Holy Spirit. He is the demon of fear.

It is assumed God cursed the devil in this way because the devil wanted to be God.

But what made the devil rebel in the first place?
When he saw that Mary was the perfect reflection of God. Her (inner) beauty and humility and self sacrifice was so much greater than Lucifer’s, and he became jealous of that. He couldn’t stand that a human was more than him.

All the demons are extremely jealous of humans. They want us all to suffer in their agony, by taking away our focus in God. “Anything but God”, is their focus.

Don’t know that any of that can answer “why” God allowed such evil. These angels were given a responsibility, and they failed at it. They wanted a “lesser good” over God.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they seeded that evil into themselves and all their descendants. Perhaps God gave us this challenge to see if we can overcome it.

All that is extremely interesting, right up to your last sentence. Why would a loving God force all future offspring to suffer with evil because of something that happened before they were born? He couldn't punish the guilty and protect the innocent from his own decision?? Makes God sound like a petty hateful monster. Was God too weak to protect the innocents from his own doings?

 

[theHawk]

All that is extremely interesting, right up to your last sentence. Why would a loving God force all future offspring to suffer with evil because of something that happened before they were born? He couldn't punish the guilty and protect the innocent from his own decision?? Makes God sound like a petty hateful monster. Was God too weak to protect the innocents from his own doings?

How is he “forcing” anyone to suffer? It’s always been the choice of humans, and even angels.
If the nature of beings with free will is to make the choice between God and sin, then it is something we will have to overcome. If he restored us to Adam and Eve status before the fall, we’d still eventually fail. You can’t have total obedience to God with no choice, then we’d be robots.

 

[BULLDOG]

How is he “forcing” anyone to suffer? It’s always been the choice of humans, and even angels.
If the nature of beings with free will is to make the choice between God and sin, then it is something we will have to overcome. If he restored us to Adam and Eve status before the fall, we’d still eventually fail. You can’t have total obedience to God with no choice, then we’d be robots.

Did all those descendants have the same choice as Adam and Eve? I don't remember making that choice. When did you decide to partake of the forbidden fruit and gain the knowledge of good and evil? Did you spend much time deciding if you wanted that knowledge? Did you know it was forbidden?

 

[BULLDOG]

How is he “forcing” anyone to suffer? It’s always been the choice of humans, and even angels.
If the nature of beings with free will is to make the choice between God and sin, then it is something we will have to overcome. If he restored us to Adam and Eve status before the fall, we’d still eventually fail. You can’t have total obedience to God with no choice, then we’d be robots.

An evil man kidnapped raped and killed a young girl. When did she make a choice to allow evil to harm her?

 

[theHawk]

Did all those descendants have the same choice as Adam and Eve? I don't remember making that choice. When did you decide to partake of the forbidden fruit and gain the knowledge of good and evil? Did you spend much time deciding if you wanted that knowledge? Did you know it was forbidden?

Like I said, you can ask God yourself.

 

[TruthNotBS]

An evil man kidnapped raped and killed a young girl. When did she make a choice to allow evil to harm her?

Bulldog, realize that you're trying to reason with someone, who's completely irrational and dishonest. If you're writing for the sake of others, rather than theHawk, then there's value in what you're doing, but don't attempt to change his mind, because you're wasting your precious time and energy on someone who's not interacting with you in good faith. He's willingly ignorant.

 

[BULLDOG]

Bulldog, realize that you're trying to reason with someone, who's completely irrational and dishonest. If you're writing for the sake of others, rather than theHawk, then there's value in what you're doing, but don't attempt to change his mind, because you're wasting your precious time and energy on someone who's not interacting with you in good faith. He's willingly ignorant.

Trust me. I'm well aware of how goofy they are. I just enjoy poking them occasionally.

 

[Unkotare]

Lots of commonly accepted reasons why God created man. Some of those reasons are to reflect his image, rule over his creation, and produce godly offspring. Another reason would be to train others in the ways or righteousness. The main reason, however, is to know him and love him and to have fellowship with him. God wanted man to have perfect fellowship with him in a perfect world. None of those reasons require evil to exist. Certainly, God knew the suffering and damage that would be caused by evil in this world. Obviously, a Loving forgiving God could find a way to discipline those who misbehave short of subjecting them to evil. It's what parents do every day. Can you show any scripture supported reason why God was forced to allow evil into what was supposed to be a perfect world or was someone else powerful enough to make an all-powerful God abandon his plan and introduce evil into the world.

Free will, dumbass.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Free will, dumbass.

Free will requires contaminating humans with "original sin", and condemning them for something one of their ancestors did thousands of years ago? Do you seriously believe that Adam and Eve actually existed and that this vast universe went helter-skelter after a caveman and his wife ate from the wrong fruit tree, after being tempted by a talking snake? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you here in NYC, it's only $1000, and it can make you a lot of money. You can charge a toll fee to cross it and ching ching, money money. Let me know.

 

[Unkotare]

Free will requires contaminating humans with "original sin", and condemning them for something one of their ancestors did thousands of years ago? Do you seriously believe that Adam and Eve actually existed and that this vast universe went helter-skelter after a caveman and his wife ate from the wrong fruit tree, after being tempted by a talking snake? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you here in NYC, it's only $1000, and it can make you a lot of money. You can charge a toll fee to cross it and ching ching, money money. Let me know.

Metaphor, dumbass.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Metaphor, dumbass.

How do you determine the meaning of your "metaphor"? Most Orthodox Jews and Christians, believe the Genesis creation accounts (chapters 1 and 2) are to be understood literally. Many Jews and Christians believe the universe is only 6000 years old.

 

[BULLDOG]

Free will, dumbass.

Yes, that is the expected trite auto-response answer, given with the same thought and reason as a Walmart greeter when he says "have a nice day". Unfortunately, it is an important question deserving of a much more complex and nuanced answer than the automatic response it usually elicits, but thank you for your answer, and have a nice day.

 

[ding]

Yes, that is the expected trite auto-response answer, given with the same thought and reason as a Walmart greeter when he says "have a nice day". Unfortunately, it is an important question deserving of a much more complex and nuanced answer than the automatic response it usually elicits, but thank you for your answer, and have a nice day.

Maybe it's because you need to experience the good and the bad to have knowledge of good and evil.

Or maybe it's because it's necessary for one to have knowledge of good and evil so that good can arise from the bad.

Or maybe it's because without bad, good has no meaning.

Or maybe it's because you are being tested.

Or maybe it's because you are being pruned.

Or maybe it's because the flesh is of no avail.

That you can't find one good reason why good and evil exists reflects poorly on you, not on God.

 

[BULLDOG]

Maybe it's because you need to experience the good and the bad to have knowledge of good and evil.

Or maybe it's because it's necessary for one to have knowledge of good and evil so that good can arise from the bad.

Or maybe it's because without bad, good has no meaning.

Or maybe it's because you are being tested.

Or maybe it's because you are being pruned.

Or maybe it's because the flesh is of no avail.

That you can't find one good reason why good and evil exists reflects poorly on you, not on God.

Maybe any one of those things, or possibly all of them, but that's not what it says in the Genesis. You got a scripture that says anything other than Adam and Eve eating of that tree being the cause.

 

[ding]

Maybe any one of those things, or possibly all of them, but that's not what it says in the Genesis. You got a scripture that says anything other than Adam and Eve eating of that tree being the cause.

I would never trust your interpretation of Genesis because it makes no sense. In other words, I wouldn't believe it either if I interpreted it your way. My way makes sense. Your way makes no sense.