Why is climate science political?

[Saigon]

You said that Gore had no impact outside of the USA.

Sweden is outside of the USA.

.

Ha! Really?

Wonderful stuff....and how many people around the world are aware of people like Jose Saramago, Adam G. Riess or Dan Shechtman?

Because they have also won Nobel Prizes, haven't they?

Al Gore has never been a major public figure outside of the US. Never and nowhere.

 

[Big Fitz]

I think he meant to say that Algore has almost no influence IN the United States. He's lauded by the rest of the ecofascisti world wide.

That really is the most staggering drivel.

Denial. It's not just a vector for Schistosomiasis anymore, is it?

 

[saveliberty]

What percent of Mozambique was heavily instrumented to measure climate change in 1880? Any of the land masses you cite? Again, where is the basis for your claims?

If there is no instrumental record, there is no point in citing the instrumental record.

Most of the Southern Hemisphere is water and a reliable method of measuring the temperature of Ocean water was not in place until about 5 years ago.

So if measurements could not be made until 5 years ago - what places in the Northern Hemisphere were heavily instrumented in 1880?

Jesus man..this is just nosensical!!

You're not improving your argument with this.

 

[code1211]

What percent of Mozambique was heavily instrumented to measure climate change in 1880? Any of the land masses you cite? Again, where is the basis for your claims?

If there is no instrumental record, there is no point in citing the instrumental record.

Most of the Southern Hemisphere is water and a reliable method of measuring the temperature of Ocean water was not in place until about 5 years ago.

So if measurements could not be made until 5 years ago - what places in the Northern Hemisphere were heavily instrumented in 1880?

Jesus man..this is just nosensical!!

That is my point.

The more densely populated areas of the USA and most of Britain were heavily instrumented from about 1930 forward.

The parts of Europe that were instrumented were covered, but not so much. Bombing whole countries to dust tends to distract climatologists.

The northern extremes above the Arctic circle had far fewer people and far fewer measuring stations.

Warmers will quickly dismiss the temperature record of the USA during the late 30's saying that this is a small percent of the land mass of the world, but it was the part that was actually measured.

Even today there are vast areas that are estimated when measured by land stations.

The true instrument record started in about 1980 when the satellite measuring was documented. This method lends itself well to worldwide measurements and is not subjected to the constant rigging needed for the various land stations to be made sensical.

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

 

[code1211]

You said that Gore had no impact outside of the USA.

Sweden is outside of the USA.

.

Ha! Really?

Wonderful stuff....and how many people around the world are aware of people like Jose Saramago, Adam G. Riess or Dan Shechtman?

Because they have also won Nobel Prizes, haven't they?

Al Gore has never been a major public figure outside of the US. Never and nowhere.

Your assertion was that he had no impact outside of the USA.

The award of the Nobel Prize destroys your assertion.

 

[Trakar]

They did as good a job as I've seen of trying to make them look aesthetic, but they're still ugly buggers wherever they are. But the Copenhagen ones weren't as ugly as the Pickens group south of Lamar all the way down the road through Oklahoma's panhandle to Amarillo. Barf.

They aren't as ugly, nor as smelly and health hazardous as oil derricks, strip mines and smoke stacks, but we still seem to have them all around the nation.

Indeed they aren't.

I don't particularly like the look of wind mills, but if they are set alongside highways or out at sea, they don't bother me.

I, personally, find nothing peculiar or offsetting about windmills, at the least they aren't static structures. Large, moving, functional art. I'm sure designs could be improved upon but at this point the emphasis is properly on functionality not esthetics.

 

[Trakar]

The plant did fine with the earthquake and it would have weathered the tsunami as well if they had bothered to place the back up generators on the roofs of the containment buildings like they had been told to do. The tsunami wiped out the generators and that is what led to the meltdown.

Basically the Japanese got complacent because they think they know everything there is to know about earthquakes and tsunamis. Complacency kills.

Complacency with wind, solar or tidal is not dangerous to the wider community, and in a democracy, that matters too.

Nuclear accidents are not common, but when they do occur, they can threaten the entire country. That fact has to be part of the equation when choosing the best overall policy for energy as well as other factors.

The point is not to be focussed on finding one or even two solutions to our energy problems and needs. A diversity of distributed systems with a strong focus on building a versatile and robust national grid energy transmission and storage backbone.

 

[bobgnote]

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

No, fucktard, we have enough data to show greenhouse theory, trends, and more trends, including ongoing disaster scenarios. We have a game, called hockey, where we are at a standoff, headed for a face-off, since you keep spamming puckey, hooking without a stick, to skate off, leaving theorists to cross-check your non-links.

You skate off, like your form is so awesome, how could you not get a '10' for form? But you are like a parading punk, in speedos, who wants the only public agenda to be for new bath-houses, never mind how we have all heard of HIV, by now. Screw you, with plastic, punk!

You mean by 'destoying the already shaky economies of the world,' we will have to lose the oil companies, somehow! One more try, pull your stupid head, out of your fat, spotted ass! Your head only lives up your ass because you like the taste, of your own shit. Try some Jack Daniels and doughnuts, like your wingnutty wingmen scarf.

 

[westwall]

How many trillions do you want us to waste on CO2 reduction?

How much is western civilization worth to you?

How much lower will the temperature be in 2080 if we follow your advice?

Unlikely enough lower to avoid a lot of expensive consequences, but hopefully enough lower to avoid the irrecoverable consequences. Most of the next century is already in the pipeline, at least as far as the changes we are likely to see in the next 50 years, we can make things worse, but due to lags in system response and the momentum the system has already been given, there isn't much we can do that will make the next half century retreat from the course we are currently influencing.

Western civ is worth a tremendous amount to me. Why do you insist on destroying it? More importantly how about doing something to prevent an asteroid strike which really can wipe us out. We finally have a means of averting that particular method of destruction but you folks are so wrapped around your non-existant hysteria...all for the sake of money and power, that you'll watch the damned asteroid slam into the Earth and say "whoops, never thought that would happen..."

 

[Big Fitz]

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

No, fucktard, we have enough data to show greenhouse theory, trends, and more trends, including ongoing disaster scenarios. We have a game, called hockey, where we are at a standoff, headed for a face-off, since you keep spamming puckey, hooking without a stick, to skate off, leaving theorists to cross-check your non-links.

You skate off, like your form is so awesome, how could you not get a '10' for form? But you are like a parading punk, in speedos, who wants the only public agenda to be for new bath-houses, never mind how we have all heard of HIV, by now. Screw you, with plastic, punk!

You mean by 'destoying the already shaky economies of the world,' we will have to lose the oil companies, somehow! One more try, pull your stupid head, out of your fat, spotted ass! Your head only lives up your ass because you like the taste, of your own shit. Try some Jack Daniels and doughnuts, like your wingnutty wingmen scarf.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ]That don't make no sense - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bobgnote]

No thanks for the spam, Big Poof.

It's Saturday. Are all the wild wingnut wingmen going to marry each other, adopt us kids, and make us eat gay spam-sandwiches at the local Log Cabin Club diner?

 

[saveliberty]

No thanks for the spam, Big Poof.

It's Saturday. Are all the wild wingnut wingmen going to marry each other, adopt us kids, and make us eat gay spam-sandwiches at the local Log Cabin Club diner?

Nope, being drunk doesn't improve your posting one bit.

 

[Oddball]

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

No, fucktard, we have enough data to show greenhouse theory, trends, and more trends, including ongoing disaster scenarios. We have a game, called hockey, where we are at a standoff, headed for a face-off, since you keep spamming puckey, hooking without a stick, to skate off, leaving theorists to cross-check your non-links.

You skate off, like your form is so awesome, how could you not get a '10' for form? But you are like a parading punk, in speedos, who wants the only public agenda to be for new bath-houses, never mind how we have all heard of HIV, by now. Screw you, with plastic, punk!

You mean by 'destoying the already shaky economies of the world,' we will have to lose the oil companies, somehow! One more try, pull your stupid head, out of your fat, spotted ass! Your head only lives up your ass because you like the taste, of your own shit. Try some Jack Daniels and doughnuts, like your wingnutty wingmen scarf.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PR_rzF8ofw]cocaine - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bobgnote]

[Nope, being drunk doesn't improve your posting one bit.

I don't drink, Savethetards. I haven't had a drop of beer, in years of knowing you were queer. I don't know why you don't go out. I did a nice workout, today!

I guess you don't have any on-topic media, do you. I urge you to go out, get a plain, old-fashioned dose of something, and keep it to yourself, rather than spam forums, with your tardy version of big oil meets the bendover boys.

But at this forum, all kinds of neo-cons with some kinda dose are cruising. This place is more of a cruise, than a forum, thanks to you! Your wingnutty wingman posted a vid. I don't think it's on topic, and it won't load too well. Eat shit and die, bimbo.

 

[westwall]

[Nope, being drunk doesn't improve your posting one bit.

I don't drink, Savethetards. I haven't had a drop of beer, in years of knowing you were queer. I don't know why you don't go out. I did a nice workout, today!

I guess you don't have any on-topic media, do you. I urge you to go out, get a plain, old-fashioned dose of something, and keep it to yourself, rather than spam forums, with your tardy version of big oil meets the bendover boys.

But at this forum, all kinds of neo-cons with some kinda dose are cruising. This place is more of a cruise, than a forum, thanks to you! Your wingnutty wingman posted a vid. I don't think it's on topic, and it won't load too well. Eat shit and die, bimbo.

Then why do your posts read like they're from a beligerent drunk? And, why are you such a homophobe? Either you're a ultra rightwing sicko, or you're a sociopath. So which are you? Either way you've outlived your usefulness on this board. No one will pay attention to a drunk homophobe.

 

[Big Fitz]

No thanks for the spam, Big Poof.

It's Saturday. Are all the wild wingnut wingmen going to marry each other, adopt us kids, and make us eat gay spam-sandwiches at the local Log Cabin Club diner?

We're out enjoying life. Quit showing off your ineptitude.

 

[Saigon]

The true instrument record started in about 1980 when the satellite measuring was documented. This method lends itself well to worldwide measurements and is not subjected to the constant rigging needed for the various land stations to be made sensical.

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

I'm recommending we utilise what we can learn from ice core samples, and what we know about climate dating back at least hundreds of years.

Of course our understanding of climate improves as our ability to monitor climate improves - but we have temperature records going back to the 1850s, and I see no reason not to consider it.

 

[Saigon]

I think he meant to say that Algore has almost no influence IN the United States. He's lauded by the rest of the ecofascisti world wide.

That really is the most staggering drivel.

Denial. It's not just a vector for Schistosomiasis anymore, is it?

Denial of what.....?

You base your position on Gore's fame in the wider world entirely on your experience in the US - I base mine entirely on my experience in a dozen other countries. A dozen countries in which Gore's name has simply never been a factor one way or the other.

It really is the most Americo-centric view imaginable that just because Gore is a famous politician in the US, he must be a famous politician everywhere.

Do you really think the average person in Germany, South Africa or Brazil really follows the lives of people like Dan Quayle or Michael Dukakis?

 

[westwall]

The true instrument record started in about 1980 when the satellite measuring was documented. This method lends itself well to worldwide measurements and is not subjected to the constant rigging needed for the various land stations to be made sensical.

So, in view of what we can actually rely on as accurate measurements of the wold's climate, we are limited to a period of about 35 years for the mid Troposphere and about 5 years for the oceans.

You are recommending destroying the already shaky economies of the world based on this?

I'm recommending we utilise what we can learn from ice core samples, and what we know about climate dating back at least hundreds of years.

Of course our understanding of climate improves as our ability to monitor climate improves - but we have temperature records going back to the 1850s, and I see no reason not to consider it.

I agree, how do you explain the multi hundred year lag from the onset of warming to the subsequent increase in CO2 levels?



Ice Core Records of Atmospheric CO2 Around the Last Three Glacial Terminations

Hubertus Fischer,
Martin Wahlen,
Jesse Smith,
Derek Mastroianni and
Bruce Deck

+ Author Affiliations

Scripps Institution of Oceanography, Geosciences Research Division, University of California San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093–0220, USA.

Abstract

Air trapped in bubbles in polar ice cores constitutes an archive for the reconstruction of the global carbon cycle and the relation between greenhouse gases and climate in the past. High-resolution records from Antarctic ice cores show that carbon dioxide concentrations increased by 80 to 100 parts per million by volume 600 ± 400 years after the warming of the last three deglaciations. Despite strongly decreasing temperatures, high carbon dioxide concentrations can be sustained for thousands of years during glaciations; the size of this phase lag is probably connected to the duration of the preceding warm period, which controls the change in land ice coverage and the buildup of the terrestrial biosphere.

Ice Core Records of Atmospheric CO2 Around the Last Three Glacial Terminations


Or....

Abstract
The phase relations (leads/lags) among atmospheric CO
2
content, temperature and global ice volume are key to understanding the
causes of glacial}interglacial (G}IG) climate transitions. Comparing the CO
2
record with other proxy variables from the Vostok ice
core and stacked marine oxygen isotope records, allows the phase relations among these variables, over the last four G}IG cycles, to
be estimated. Lagged, generalized least-squares regression provides an e$cient and precise technique for this estimation. Bootstrap
resampling allows account to be taken of measurement and timescale errors. Over the full 420 ka of the Vostok record, CO
2
variations lag behind atmospheric temperature changes in the Southern Hemisphere by 1.3$1.0 ka, and lead over global ice-volume
variations by 2.7$1.3 ka. However, signi"cant short-term changes in the lag of CO
2
relative to temperature, subsequent to
Terminations II and III, are also detected. ( 2001 Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights reserved.

http://www.manfredmudelsee.com/publ...nd_global_ice_volume_over_the_past_420_ka.pdf

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Haven't we covered this about 20 times already?

I can never understand why posters ask questions, when they already know the answers.

Have you EVER heard ANYONE claim that people are the only factor influencing CO2 levels and/or the climate?

If not - then why ask at all?