Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[LoneLaugher]

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

I ain't going anywhere and you ain't gettin' no fucking wall.

Really, a 100 mile section will be beginning the end of Jan. The President said he'll be there for the ground breaking. Puff on that commie.

.

You will believe anything.

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Unfortunately, Ray, they run out of them very fast, then like children, go full circle right back to the argument they started with, as if they never made it before or had it clearly proven wrong.

Well so far, we have.........

These people work illegally and pay taxes for programs they won't collect on.,

These people work harder than Americans.

These people commit less violent crimes than Americans.

These poor people somehow stimulate the economy.

A wall won't work even though nobody can produce evidence of that claim.

They will simply buy tall ladders or dig tunnels, and our border security, military nor engineers figured that out yet.

These people are taking jobs Americans don't want. Jobs that pay $2.00 an hour.

A wall will turn us into Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The only people wanting a wall are xenophobes and racists.

Protecting our borders interferes in capitalism.

Most illegals enter through legal VISA's, therefore nothing should be done about other ways they get in.

I'm sure I missed some you may have thought of. But the truth of the matter is they are looking for any excuse to have a borderless country.

Although I did not understand what point you were trying to make, I'll give you a few points so that we can clear this up just for you:

1) Those who want the border wall have been asked WHY they want it. When those who do not want the wall respond to one PRETEXT, the wall advocates simply change the goal posts. For example, IIRC when I entered this thread, the pretext for the wall was sovereignty (see post # 951.) Somebody probably addressed more pretexts, but I think I joined the conversation somewhere along post #951.

Since then the pretexts have ranged from undocumented immigrants stealing jobs to not paying taxes and from SUPPOSED costs of immigrants (welfare, medical costs, etc.) to the PRETEXT of safety. At the end of the day, people like Ray have not been able to articulate a reason as to WHY they support a wall idea. Respond to the PRETEXT of the day and they invent another

2) WHEN the PRETEXTS are examined and found to be baseless, Ray, and those who support his position, have a hissy fit, wanting us to look at all their supposed evidence that they think supports their position.

The problem for them is that while China does have a wall, China is also ONE people. 98.5 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. To date, the wall supporters have avoided the QUESTION of what the agenda is beyond the wall. Say you write them a check for umpteen BILLIONS of dollars to build the wall. Is the long term goal then to rid America of the third worlders and other foreigners, getting rid of not only the poverty stricken, but say people like Muslims (whose religion dictates that they will either convert or kill us)???

The second problem for the wall advocates is that they cannot understand why a wall may be effective for one country, but not the United States. For whatever reason, the build the wall advocates were never taught that America was founded as a constitutional Republic and THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHOSE GOVERNMENT IS GUARANTEEING GOD GIVEN, INHERENT, NATURAL, UNALIENABLE, ABSOLUTE RIGHTS.

You cannot take from one country something you like and then ignore the accompanying things that make their numbers look good. In other words, if you want to be like the Israelis, then you have to declare a state of war; you have to maintain an atmosphere of distrust, conflict, and chaos so that you can have a PRETEXT to suspend the Rights of the people in order to keep the foreigners out.

We're not engaged in a war and sensible people do NOT want the POLICE STATE which would be a necessity to enforce the nutty wall idea. The wall don't just magically keep people out. Whoever guards the wall must HATE the foreigners so that the guards will not be susceptible to turning a blind eye to those who breach the wall.

Americans will have to be programmed, Pavlovian style, to HATE the people from south of the border because, unlike the Israelis, we are not at war from the people south of our border. The Israelis are fighting an enemy who, according to the Bible, have their hand against every man and every man's hand against them. Those Ishmaelites, the people trying to breach Israel's defenses, are doing so in order to KILL a political enemy.

In the United States, the atmosphere is much different. The people coming here from south of the border are finding WILLING Americans to do business with. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not like you have to stand guard at the border and kill or be killed

3) The aim of political globalists is to con the Americans into giving up their Rights. Even when it was pointed out to Ray how, when our Second Amendment Rights were protected, the legal principle protected Sanctuary Cities, he chose to ignore the FACT that the laws required to enforce the nutty wall idea will end up costing you the Rights our forefathers fought, bled and died in order to secure for us.

The pro-wall advocates will call Nancy Pelosi a liar all the way up to the point that she says no wall - no way. The build the wall advocates are generally working in industries where people are actors and negotiators (lawyers, politicians, and people involved in professional wrestling are good at it.) So, those build the wall people do not understand that the fix is in. They will get their silly wall, but the Democrats have already been guaranteed concessions on gun control.

But, like a WWE match, they have to make the "fight" appear real. One only needs to know where Donald Trump stands, historically, on gun control not to understand that the building of the wall is about to come at an expense of the Second Amendment And WHEN it fails to make a difference, more private deals will be struck until we have no more Rights under a Republican form of government, but only a Democracy that will be ruled by the "legal" foreigners we're allowing to take over in this country.

Brevity is no friend of yours I see.

The subject at hand is a wall. When asked, we give a list of reasons to have a wall. They are legitimate reasons and support the position of doing something to help stop a long ongoing problem.

On the other side of the aisle, you people are arguing for why we should not be trying to solve the problem. You are telling us to leave the problem alone. 20 million illegals? let's make it 40 million by 2025. In other words, do nothing or even enhance the problem.

It's like arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket. The officer can give you reasons and statistics why you are getting a ticket for speeding. And in response, you are trying to tell him all the benefits of having people on the highway driving dangerous speeds. It's really a stupid argument.

In other words we are making an argument why something needs to be done, and you are making an argument why we should allow law breakers to continue breaking our laws. Again, a really stupid argument.

A wall will not stop all illegal immigration no more than a police officer can stop all speeders on the highway. But once word gets out that the officer is there, less people will be speeding on that stretch of highway. This is why the Caravan has not grown. We are not giving into their demands or simply giving them a free pass to roam our country while they wait 3 years for a court hearing. They can't get in......period. And any other people thinking of doing the same thing now realize they will be met with resistance and defeat.

Sir, you did not like brevity and I don't know if you are just a regular troll or don't understand the way the legal and political system works.

Maybe, if you would quit lying, we could have a civil conversation. So let me tell you straight up: If you will find one sentence where I advocated "doing nothing," I will ask the mods to take all my posts down and I will leave you to say whatever you want. I will permanently EXIT this board. If you reread this thread and come up with nothing, you will be given an opportunity to apologize for that blatant lie. OR you can continue to lie and discredit your own position.

What I've said is that you need a solution that covers BOTH those from south of the border as well as the 60 percent of undocumented foreigners your ideas ignore. IF you ever had a plan, you have never mentioned it.

What I've said is that the plan must be a PERMANENT solution, not some fly by the seat of your pants idea to build a silly wall with no future idea of how to handle the new set of problems it will bring OR what the agenda is once you figure out YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. And, if the Democrats don't want a wall, they will dismantle it the moment they get another liberal in the White House... but, they won't. It was their idea first - and even Donald Trump acknowledged that.

If you want brevity, don't expect thirty years of experience in five sentences or less. If you want brevity, quit lying and if you still doubt a set of facts, ASK questions instead of making baseless allegations. You and I both realize that you are not stupid enough to believe I'm on the left. It's been explained to you. You can try to filibuster from now on, but the PRETEXTS will be dismantled. I could keep the overwhelming majority of those people "on their side of the fence" without a wall and without blowing BILLIONS of tax dollars, not to mention screwing my fellow Americans by taking a giant dump on their Rights. Face it - you will accept socialism, a repeal of the Bill of Rights, or anything else for that precious wall.

Sorry, but I fail to subscribe to this idiocy of All or Nothing. To say we shouldn't be doing anything on our southern border because of the other ways they get here is as ridiculous of an argument as one could make. It's like saying I'm not going to fence off my property to stop intruders because I can't afford an alarm system in my house right now.

If the anti-white party wants to take down a wall; a wall that taxpayers just spent X billions on, it would reveal to the country their real intentions which is not to stop illegal immigration and show the world they are for open borders. So they will never do that. They want to keep their dog and pony show of saying they want to do things and not really do them.

And as we asked repeatedly, how does a wall have anything to do with freedom, the Bill of Rights, Socialism, or any American rights? You are just making crap up. You have zero evidence to support your claims. It's paranoia delusion.

Do you bother paying attention? What makes you lie like a New York politician? You most assuredly HAVE BEEN shown how the enforcement of laws related to immigration affect your Rights. Are you going to force me to repeat the Printz decision (a pro-gun ruling) being used to justify Sanctuary Cities? Do I have to repeat that to you? Do you see why my posts to you cannot be brief? I'll help you out. Read what I read this morning:

Trump was right.

See posts 5 through 8. Maybe they can explain this so you get the picture.

Insofar as the all or nothing comment, I'll say this:

It would be easier and more prudent; cheaper and more likely to pass an idea to Congress a bill that both sides would sign. The thing of it is, some folks done figured it out. You've been had and that link above shows that you are about to be in a world of skeet... or how did they put it in the movie Full Metal Jacket?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well so far, we have.........

These people work illegally and pay taxes for programs they won't collect on.,

These people work harder than Americans.

These people commit less violent crimes than Americans.

These poor people somehow stimulate the economy.

A wall won't work even though nobody can produce evidence of that claim.

They will simply buy tall ladders or dig tunnels, and our border security, military nor engineers figured that out yet.

These people are taking jobs Americans don't want. Jobs that pay $2.00 an hour.

A wall will turn us into Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The only people wanting a wall are xenophobes and racists.

Protecting our borders interferes in capitalism.

Most illegals enter through legal VISA's, therefore nothing should be done about other ways they get in.

I'm sure I missed some you may have thought of. But the truth of the matter is they are looking for any excuse to have a borderless country.

Although I did not understand what point you were trying to make, I'll give you a few points so that we can clear this up just for you:

1) Those who want the border wall have been asked WHY they want it. When those who do not want the wall respond to one PRETEXT, the wall advocates simply change the goal posts. For example, IIRC when I entered this thread, the pretext for the wall was sovereignty (see post # 951.) Somebody probably addressed more pretexts, but I think I joined the conversation somewhere along post #951.

Since then the pretexts have ranged from undocumented immigrants stealing jobs to not paying taxes and from SUPPOSED costs of immigrants (welfare, medical costs, etc.) to the PRETEXT of safety. At the end of the day, people like Ray have not been able to articulate a reason as to WHY they support a wall idea. Respond to the PRETEXT of the day and they invent another

2) WHEN the PRETEXTS are examined and found to be baseless, Ray, and those who support his position, have a hissy fit, wanting us to look at all their supposed evidence that they think supports their position.

The problem for them is that while China does have a wall, China is also ONE people. 98.5 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. To date, the wall supporters have avoided the QUESTION of what the agenda is beyond the wall. Say you write them a check for umpteen BILLIONS of dollars to build the wall. Is the long term goal then to rid America of the third worlders and other foreigners, getting rid of not only the poverty stricken, but say people like Muslims (whose religion dictates that they will either convert or kill us)???

The second problem for the wall advocates is that they cannot understand why a wall may be effective for one country, but not the United States. For whatever reason, the build the wall advocates were never taught that America was founded as a constitutional Republic and THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHOSE GOVERNMENT IS GUARANTEEING GOD GIVEN, INHERENT, NATURAL, UNALIENABLE, ABSOLUTE RIGHTS.

You cannot take from one country something you like and then ignore the accompanying things that make their numbers look good. In other words, if you want to be like the Israelis, then you have to declare a state of war; you have to maintain an atmosphere of distrust, conflict, and chaos so that you can have a PRETEXT to suspend the Rights of the people in order to keep the foreigners out.

We're not engaged in a war and sensible people do NOT want the POLICE STATE which would be a necessity to enforce the nutty wall idea. The wall don't just magically keep people out. Whoever guards the wall must HATE the foreigners so that the guards will not be susceptible to turning a blind eye to those who breach the wall.

Americans will have to be programmed, Pavlovian style, to HATE the people from south of the border because, unlike the Israelis, we are not at war from the people south of our border. The Israelis are fighting an enemy who, according to the Bible, have their hand against every man and every man's hand against them. Those Ishmaelites, the people trying to breach Israel's defenses, are doing so in order to KILL a political enemy.

In the United States, the atmosphere is much different. The people coming here from south of the border are finding WILLING Americans to do business with. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not like you have to stand guard at the border and kill or be killed

3) The aim of political globalists is to con the Americans into giving up their Rights. Even when it was pointed out to Ray how, when our Second Amendment Rights were protected, the legal principle protected Sanctuary Cities, he chose to ignore the FACT that the laws required to enforce the nutty wall idea will end up costing you the Rights our forefathers fought, bled and died in order to secure for us.

The pro-wall advocates will call Nancy Pelosi a liar all the way up to the point that she says no wall - no way. The build the wall advocates are generally working in industries where people are actors and negotiators (lawyers, politicians, and people involved in professional wrestling are good at it.) So, those build the wall people do not understand that the fix is in. They will get their silly wall, but the Democrats have already been guaranteed concessions on gun control.

But, like a WWE match, they have to make the "fight" appear real. One only needs to know where Donald Trump stands, historically, on gun control not to understand that the building of the wall is about to come at an expense of the Second Amendment And WHEN it fails to make a difference, more private deals will be struck until we have no more Rights under a Republican form of government, but only a Democracy that will be ruled by the "legal" foreigners we're allowing to take over in this country.

Brevity is no friend of yours I see.

The subject at hand is a wall. When asked, we give a list of reasons to have a wall. They are legitimate reasons and support the position of doing something to help stop a long ongoing problem.

On the other side of the aisle, you people are arguing for why we should not be trying to solve the problem. You are telling us to leave the problem alone. 20 million illegals? let's make it 40 million by 2025. In other words, do nothing or even enhance the problem.

It's like arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket. The officer can give you reasons and statistics why you are getting a ticket for speeding. And in response, you are trying to tell him all the benefits of having people on the highway driving dangerous speeds. It's really a stupid argument.

In other words we are making an argument why something needs to be done, and you are making an argument why we should allow law breakers to continue breaking our laws. Again, a really stupid argument.

A wall will not stop all illegal immigration no more than a police officer can stop all speeders on the highway. But once word gets out that the officer is there, less people will be speeding on that stretch of highway. This is why the Caravan has not grown. We are not giving into their demands or simply giving them a free pass to roam our country while they wait 3 years for a court hearing. They can't get in......period. And any other people thinking of doing the same thing now realize they will be met with resistance and defeat.

Sir, you did not like brevity and I don't know if you are just a regular troll or don't understand the way the legal and political system works.

Maybe, if you would quit lying, we could have a civil conversation. So let me tell you straight up: If you will find one sentence where I advocated "doing nothing," I will ask the mods to take all my posts down and I will leave you to say whatever you want. I will permanently EXIT this board. If you reread this thread and come up with nothing, you will be given an opportunity to apologize for that blatant lie. OR you can continue to lie and discredit your own position.

What I've said is that you need a solution that covers BOTH those from south of the border as well as the 60 percent of undocumented foreigners your ideas ignore. IF you ever had a plan, you have never mentioned it.

What I've said is that the plan must be a PERMANENT solution, not some fly by the seat of your pants idea to build a silly wall with no future idea of how to handle the new set of problems it will bring OR what the agenda is once you figure out YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. And, if the Democrats don't want a wall, they will dismantle it the moment they get another liberal in the White House... but, they won't. It was their idea first - and even Donald Trump acknowledged that.

If you want brevity, don't expect thirty years of experience in five sentences or less. If you want brevity, quit lying and if you still doubt a set of facts, ASK questions instead of making baseless allegations. You and I both realize that you are not stupid enough to believe I'm on the left. It's been explained to you. You can try to filibuster from now on, but the PRETEXTS will be dismantled. I could keep the overwhelming majority of those people "on their side of the fence" without a wall and without blowing BILLIONS of tax dollars, not to mention screwing my fellow Americans by taking a giant dump on their Rights. Face it - you will accept socialism, a repeal of the Bill of Rights, or anything else for that precious wall.

Sorry, but I fail to subscribe to this idiocy of All or Nothing. To say we shouldn't be doing anything on our southern border because of the other ways they get here is as ridiculous of an argument as one could make. It's like saying I'm not going to fence off my property to stop intruders because I can't afford an alarm system in my house right now.

If the anti-white party wants to take down a wall; a wall that taxpayers just spent X billions on, it would reveal to the country their real intentions which is not to stop illegal immigration and show the world they are for open borders. So they will never do that. They want to keep their dog and pony show of saying they want to do things and not really do them.

And as we asked repeatedly, how does a wall have anything to do with freedom, the Bill of Rights, Socialism, or any American rights? You are just making crap up. You have zero evidence to support your claims. It's paranoia delusion.

Do you bother paying attention? What makes you lie like a New York politician? You most assuredly HAVE BEEN shown how the enforcement of laws related to immigration affect your Rights. Are you going to force me to repeat the Printz decision (a pro-gun ruling) being used to justify Sanctuary Cities? Do I have to repeat that to you? Do you see why my posts to you cannot be brief? I'll help you out. Read what I read this morning:

Trump was right.

See posts 5 through 8. Maybe they can explain this so you get the picture.

Insofar as the all or nothing comment, I'll say this:

It would be easier and more prudent; cheaper and more likely to pass an idea to Congress a bill that both sides would sign. The thing of it is, some folks done figured it out. You've been had and that link above shows that you are about to be in a world of skeet... or how did they put it in the movie Full Metal Jacket?

I have no idea what that outdoors blog has to do with this conversation. As for the link that started it, it only explained how Trump was talking about closing down the border if Mexico wasn't going to help. What does that prove? The article talked about how gang members were planning to use our systems to enter the country illegally, and thankfully since we DO HAVE border agents, they busted them.

The border has nothing to do with my rights or yours. It didn't have anything to do with my rights last year, the year before, ten years before, or even twenty, and extending the border wall won't change that either.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Do we have to educate you yet AGAIN?

You're a real self-convinced pretentious narcissist, aren't ya? You need to educate people? Oh Lord, look fellow USMB members, we have a teacher now that knows more than any of us and willing to bless us with his presence.

The market is not being flooded with cheap labor per se. It is being filled with people whose American counterparts you have no use for.

I have no idea WTF that's even supposed to mean.

Go back to post # 971. You were informed, with accurate figures, that about 11 million people have been diagnosed with ADD / ADHD YOUR claim is that you have it, but don't take your meds. YOU claim it is a real and legitimate condition. You have made much ado about the public having a right to know the private business of individuals, so you just knocked 11 million people out of the job market. Who wants an employee with a mental health condition?

You're the one who keeps dwelling on this mental health thing. I never said a word about it. You keep inserting things I've never even brought up yet alone discussed.

Between drug addicts and people with a criminal history, you have more than 17 million people that, for all intents and purposes, are UNEMPLOYABLE. And you don't want them to get a second chance and go back to work!

When I brought up the mental health issue as a relevant factor, you wanted a debate on it. You lost that side argument - but that is where it came from. I explained how it comes down to Americans getting locked out of the system through no initial fault of their own. So, refresh your memory. Reread posts # 946 through # 979. You posting a hundred and fifty posts a day to hide what has already been established won't hide the truth.

You are all over the board. Before you think about keeping people out and putting up a wall, you should be thinking about who is going to fill the empty positions when your agenda would prohibit Americans from getting those jobs as they are at this very moment, due to a criminal history and / or mental problems that do not affect an individual's ability, BUT are used against them. AND they can NEVER rise above their past given your idea of utopia.

First off I never said nobody should have a second chance. I said it's up to employers to make that decision. And since it's a concern of yours, don't you think that perhaps, if employers get so desperate for workers because we rid our country of foreigners, that maybe those employers WILL take a chance at hiring some of these Americans?

Getting defensive aren't you? You shouldn't ask questions if you don't want answers. Since you are getting the beat down by multiple posters, you are slinging skeet, hoping the shotgun approach will work. It isn't.

Of course, you said people should not have a second chance. You said that when you wanted to open peoples personal lives up to the rest of the world. Americans don't forget and they do not forgive. Employers HAVE made that decision. Millions of Americans are permanently locked out of the job market over petty beefs that are years old.

There is a thing in the world to keep employers from hiring Americans who have been disenfranchised. Your job is driving a truck. My job is helping those who are locked out to get back on their feet and get a second chance.

There is a world of difference between listening to a truck driver try to convince us he has ALL the answers versus someone who spends their days trying to help people get back into the workforce, get a place to live, and become productive citizens. Hell, I got one guy in the mix that was convicted of a felony, but served only three months of his sentence. And, although he's been clean for a couple of years he can't even get a job at McDonalds. NOBODY will give him a second chance.

You keep parroting a lie, so the only thing we can do is keep showing you that you are full of crap. Your wall does not address at least 60 percent of the people who come here and don't have human registration papers. You worry about laborers.

I see colleges full of foreign students, foreigners taking BIG DOLLAR jobs like scientists, doctors, technology engineers, lawyers, and government employees. Now, that should concern you. A pissant fruit picker from Mexico is not near the threat you have as you do from the Muslims now in the U.S. Congress. But, don't let the facts get in your way.

Who reads cut and pastes?
1 st gen immigrants cost.
After that it's all gravy.
What garbage. My science relatives had no prob getting big paying jobs

If people want the FACTS, they will read them. Those who dispute the cut and pastes will continue to talk out their ass while those in the fight present factual cases.

 

[OKTexas]

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

I ain't going anywhere and you ain't gettin' no fucking wall.

Really, a 100 mile section will be beginning the end of Jan. The President said he'll be there for the ground breaking. Puff on that commie.

.

You will believe anything.

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Although I did not understand what point you were trying to make, I'll give you a few points so that we can clear this up just for you:

1) Those who want the border wall have been asked WHY they want it. When those who do not want the wall respond to one PRETEXT, the wall advocates simply change the goal posts. For example, IIRC when I entered this thread, the pretext for the wall was sovereignty (see post # 951.) Somebody probably addressed more pretexts, but I think I joined the conversation somewhere along post #951.

Since then the pretexts have ranged from undocumented immigrants stealing jobs to not paying taxes and from SUPPOSED costs of immigrants (welfare, medical costs, etc.) to the PRETEXT of safety. At the end of the day, people like Ray have not been able to articulate a reason as to WHY they support a wall idea. Respond to the PRETEXT of the day and they invent another

2) WHEN the PRETEXTS are examined and found to be baseless, Ray, and those who support his position, have a hissy fit, wanting us to look at all their supposed evidence that they think supports their position.

The problem for them is that while China does have a wall, China is also ONE people. 98.5 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. To date, the wall supporters have avoided the QUESTION of what the agenda is beyond the wall. Say you write them a check for umpteen BILLIONS of dollars to build the wall. Is the long term goal then to rid America of the third worlders and other foreigners, getting rid of not only the poverty stricken, but say people like Muslims (whose religion dictates that they will either convert or kill us)???

The second problem for the wall advocates is that they cannot understand why a wall may be effective for one country, but not the United States. For whatever reason, the build the wall advocates were never taught that America was founded as a constitutional Republic and THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHOSE GOVERNMENT IS GUARANTEEING GOD GIVEN, INHERENT, NATURAL, UNALIENABLE, ABSOLUTE RIGHTS.

You cannot take from one country something you like and then ignore the accompanying things that make their numbers look good. In other words, if you want to be like the Israelis, then you have to declare a state of war; you have to maintain an atmosphere of distrust, conflict, and chaos so that you can have a PRETEXT to suspend the Rights of the people in order to keep the foreigners out.

We're not engaged in a war and sensible people do NOT want the POLICE STATE which would be a necessity to enforce the nutty wall idea. The wall don't just magically keep people out. Whoever guards the wall must HATE the foreigners so that the guards will not be susceptible to turning a blind eye to those who breach the wall.

Americans will have to be programmed, Pavlovian style, to HATE the people from south of the border because, unlike the Israelis, we are not at war from the people south of our border. The Israelis are fighting an enemy who, according to the Bible, have their hand against every man and every man's hand against them. Those Ishmaelites, the people trying to breach Israel's defenses, are doing so in order to KILL a political enemy.

In the United States, the atmosphere is much different. The people coming here from south of the border are finding WILLING Americans to do business with. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not like you have to stand guard at the border and kill or be killed

3) The aim of political globalists is to con the Americans into giving up their Rights. Even when it was pointed out to Ray how, when our Second Amendment Rights were protected, the legal principle protected Sanctuary Cities, he chose to ignore the FACT that the laws required to enforce the nutty wall idea will end up costing you the Rights our forefathers fought, bled and died in order to secure for us.

The pro-wall advocates will call Nancy Pelosi a liar all the way up to the point that she says no wall - no way. The build the wall advocates are generally working in industries where people are actors and negotiators (lawyers, politicians, and people involved in professional wrestling are good at it.) So, those build the wall people do not understand that the fix is in. They will get their silly wall, but the Democrats have already been guaranteed concessions on gun control.

But, like a WWE match, they have to make the "fight" appear real. One only needs to know where Donald Trump stands, historically, on gun control not to understand that the building of the wall is about to come at an expense of the Second Amendment And WHEN it fails to make a difference, more private deals will be struck until we have no more Rights under a Republican form of government, but only a Democracy that will be ruled by the "legal" foreigners we're allowing to take over in this country.

Brevity is no friend of yours I see.

The subject at hand is a wall. When asked, we give a list of reasons to have a wall. They are legitimate reasons and support the position of doing something to help stop a long ongoing problem.

On the other side of the aisle, you people are arguing for why we should not be trying to solve the problem. You are telling us to leave the problem alone. 20 million illegals? let's make it 40 million by 2025. In other words, do nothing or even enhance the problem.

It's like arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket. The officer can give you reasons and statistics why you are getting a ticket for speeding. And in response, you are trying to tell him all the benefits of having people on the highway driving dangerous speeds. It's really a stupid argument.

In other words we are making an argument why something needs to be done, and you are making an argument why we should allow law breakers to continue breaking our laws. Again, a really stupid argument.

A wall will not stop all illegal immigration no more than a police officer can stop all speeders on the highway. But once word gets out that the officer is there, less people will be speeding on that stretch of highway. This is why the Caravan has not grown. We are not giving into their demands or simply giving them a free pass to roam our country while they wait 3 years for a court hearing. They can't get in......period. And any other people thinking of doing the same thing now realize they will be met with resistance and defeat.

Sir, you did not like brevity and I don't know if you are just a regular troll or don't understand the way the legal and political system works.

Maybe, if you would quit lying, we could have a civil conversation. So let me tell you straight up: If you will find one sentence where I advocated "doing nothing," I will ask the mods to take all my posts down and I will leave you to say whatever you want. I will permanently EXIT this board. If you reread this thread and come up with nothing, you will be given an opportunity to apologize for that blatant lie. OR you can continue to lie and discredit your own position.

What I've said is that you need a solution that covers BOTH those from south of the border as well as the 60 percent of undocumented foreigners your ideas ignore. IF you ever had a plan, you have never mentioned it.

What I've said is that the plan must be a PERMANENT solution, not some fly by the seat of your pants idea to build a silly wall with no future idea of how to handle the new set of problems it will bring OR what the agenda is once you figure out YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. And, if the Democrats don't want a wall, they will dismantle it the moment they get another liberal in the White House... but, they won't. It was their idea first - and even Donald Trump acknowledged that.

If you want brevity, don't expect thirty years of experience in five sentences or less. If you want brevity, quit lying and if you still doubt a set of facts, ASK questions instead of making baseless allegations. You and I both realize that you are not stupid enough to believe I'm on the left. It's been explained to you. You can try to filibuster from now on, but the PRETEXTS will be dismantled. I could keep the overwhelming majority of those people "on their side of the fence" without a wall and without blowing BILLIONS of tax dollars, not to mention screwing my fellow Americans by taking a giant dump on their Rights. Face it - you will accept socialism, a repeal of the Bill of Rights, or anything else for that precious wall.

Sorry, but I fail to subscribe to this idiocy of All or Nothing. To say we shouldn't be doing anything on our southern border because of the other ways they get here is as ridiculous of an argument as one could make. It's like saying I'm not going to fence off my property to stop intruders because I can't afford an alarm system in my house right now.

If the anti-white party wants to take down a wall; a wall that taxpayers just spent X billions on, it would reveal to the country their real intentions which is not to stop illegal immigration and show the world they are for open borders. So they will never do that. They want to keep their dog and pony show of saying they want to do things and not really do them.

And as we asked repeatedly, how does a wall have anything to do with freedom, the Bill of Rights, Socialism, or any American rights? You are just making crap up. You have zero evidence to support your claims. It's paranoia delusion.

Do you bother paying attention? What makes you lie like a New York politician? You most assuredly HAVE BEEN shown how the enforcement of laws related to immigration affect your Rights. Are you going to force me to repeat the Printz decision (a pro-gun ruling) being used to justify Sanctuary Cities? Do I have to repeat that to you? Do you see why my posts to you cannot be brief? I'll help you out. Read what I read this morning:

Trump was right.

See posts 5 through 8. Maybe they can explain this so you get the picture.

Insofar as the all or nothing comment, I'll say this:

It would be easier and more prudent; cheaper and more likely to pass an idea to Congress a bill that both sides would sign. The thing of it is, some folks done figured it out. You've been had and that link above shows that you are about to be in a world of skeet... or how did they put it in the movie Full Metal Jacket?

I have no idea what that outdoors blog has to do with this conversation. As for the link that started it, it only explained how Trump was talking about closing down the border if Mexico wasn't going to help. What does that prove? The article talked about how gang members were planning to use our systems to enter the country illegally, and thankfully since we DO HAVE border agents, they busted them.

The border has nothing to do with my rights or yours. It didn't have anything to do with my rights last year, the year before, ten years before, or even twenty, and extending the border wall won't change that either.

You live in a state of denial. WHEN Nancy Pelosi sticks that gun up your arse, you are welcome to come back here and make the idiotic, irrelevant, stupid, and moronic statements you've become noted for.

Everything associated with that wall will have a cost - and I agree, it WILL be built. It will be built at a cost to your constitutional Liberties just as that link is also predicting. If you don't understand the correlation, you should read a few civics books and give it a rest on the posting. Those posts talked about a HELL of a lot more than what you claim. You must think that those who agree with you are total idiots and won't check it out for themselves. You may or may not be right, but if even one of them checks it out, they will begin thinking about the real costs of forfeiting their Liberty for a stupid wall.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I ain't going anywhere and you ain't gettin' no fucking wall.

Really, a 100 mile section will be beginning the end of Jan. The President said he'll be there for the ground breaking. Puff on that commie.

.

You will believe anything.

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Look to the facts from a study, on the cost burdens surrounding illegal immigrants.

“At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.”

So let's fix that. And let's do it without indulging the shackles of big government.

The problems we have are the welfare state and birth-right citizenship. Neither of those requires the Berlin wall.

China / Hong Kong (early 1960s) - 32 km
Botswana / Zimbabwe 2003 - 500 km
Bulgaria / Turkey 2014 - 30 km
Chinese / Korean border fence (under construction) - 1,416 km
Macedonia / Greece barrier 2015 - 30 km
India / Myanmar barrier (under construction) - 1,624 km

Just the facts, and this is to name but a few. However, we are called to follow after other nations on how government faces health care? Yet a wall is immoral and racist, despite other nations around the globe seeing fit to do so against illegal immigration.

Explain that one to me. Anyone?

What is it you don't understand? Other nations have overbearing governments, bad laws and policies that violate individual liberty? Are you suggesting we follow their example?

Even Harry Reid saw the burden of illegals on our nation, and that was 1993. Look, liberals lost the cost argument on illegal immigration and now they are to lose on the nation’s border barrier argument.

I have no interest in the opinions of liberals, nor Harry Reid.

It's hilarious that you read the mental midgetry of some of these build the wall guys and they are ALWAYS quoting liberals and promoting communist nations in support of their talking points... All the while calling others lefties. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Brevity is no friend of yours I see.

The subject at hand is a wall. When asked, we give a list of reasons to have a wall. They are legitimate reasons and support the position of doing something to help stop a long ongoing problem.

On the other side of the aisle, you people are arguing for why we should not be trying to solve the problem. You are telling us to leave the problem alone. 20 million illegals? let's make it 40 million by 2025. In other words, do nothing or even enhance the problem.

It's like arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket. The officer can give you reasons and statistics why you are getting a ticket for speeding. And in response, you are trying to tell him all the benefits of having people on the highway driving dangerous speeds. It's really a stupid argument.

In other words we are making an argument why something needs to be done, and you are making an argument why we should allow law breakers to continue breaking our laws. Again, a really stupid argument.

A wall will not stop all illegal immigration no more than a police officer can stop all speeders on the highway. But once word gets out that the officer is there, less people will be speeding on that stretch of highway. This is why the Caravan has not grown. We are not giving into their demands or simply giving them a free pass to roam our country while they wait 3 years for a court hearing. They can't get in......period. And any other people thinking of doing the same thing now realize they will be met with resistance and defeat.

Sir, you did not like brevity and I don't know if you are just a regular troll or don't understand the way the legal and political system works.

Maybe, if you would quit lying, we could have a civil conversation. So let me tell you straight up: If you will find one sentence where I advocated "doing nothing," I will ask the mods to take all my posts down and I will leave you to say whatever you want. I will permanently EXIT this board. If you reread this thread and come up with nothing, you will be given an opportunity to apologize for that blatant lie. OR you can continue to lie and discredit your own position.

What I've said is that you need a solution that covers BOTH those from south of the border as well as the 60 percent of undocumented foreigners your ideas ignore. IF you ever had a plan, you have never mentioned it.

What I've said is that the plan must be a PERMANENT solution, not some fly by the seat of your pants idea to build a silly wall with no future idea of how to handle the new set of problems it will bring OR what the agenda is once you figure out YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. And, if the Democrats don't want a wall, they will dismantle it the moment they get another liberal in the White House... but, they won't. It was their idea first - and even Donald Trump acknowledged that.

If you want brevity, don't expect thirty years of experience in five sentences or less. If you want brevity, quit lying and if you still doubt a set of facts, ASK questions instead of making baseless allegations. You and I both realize that you are not stupid enough to believe I'm on the left. It's been explained to you. You can try to filibuster from now on, but the PRETEXTS will be dismantled. I could keep the overwhelming majority of those people "on their side of the fence" without a wall and without blowing BILLIONS of tax dollars, not to mention screwing my fellow Americans by taking a giant dump on their Rights. Face it - you will accept socialism, a repeal of the Bill of Rights, or anything else for that precious wall.

Sorry, but I fail to subscribe to this idiocy of All or Nothing. To say we shouldn't be doing anything on our southern border because of the other ways they get here is as ridiculous of an argument as one could make. It's like saying I'm not going to fence off my property to stop intruders because I can't afford an alarm system in my house right now.

If the anti-white party wants to take down a wall; a wall that taxpayers just spent X billions on, it would reveal to the country their real intentions which is not to stop illegal immigration and show the world they are for open borders. So they will never do that. They want to keep their dog and pony show of saying they want to do things and not really do them.

And as we asked repeatedly, how does a wall have anything to do with freedom, the Bill of Rights, Socialism, or any American rights? You are just making crap up. You have zero evidence to support your claims. It's paranoia delusion.

Do you bother paying attention? What makes you lie like a New York politician? You most assuredly HAVE BEEN shown how the enforcement of laws related to immigration affect your Rights. Are you going to force me to repeat the Printz decision (a pro-gun ruling) being used to justify Sanctuary Cities? Do I have to repeat that to you? Do you see why my posts to you cannot be brief? I'll help you out. Read what I read this morning:

Trump was right.

See posts 5 through 8. Maybe they can explain this so you get the picture.

Insofar as the all or nothing comment, I'll say this:

It would be easier and more prudent; cheaper and more likely to pass an idea to Congress a bill that both sides would sign. The thing of it is, some folks done figured it out. You've been had and that link above shows that you are about to be in a world of skeet... or how did they put it in the movie Full Metal Jacket?

I have no idea what that outdoors blog has to do with this conversation. As for the link that started it, it only explained how Trump was talking about closing down the border if Mexico wasn't going to help. What does that prove? The article talked about how gang members were planning to use our systems to enter the country illegally, and thankfully since we DO HAVE border agents, they busted them.

The border has nothing to do with my rights or yours. It didn't have anything to do with my rights last year, the year before, ten years before, or even twenty, and extending the border wall won't change that either.

You live in a state of denial. WHEN Nancy Pelosi sticks that gun up your arse, you are welcome to come back here and make the idiotic, irrelevant, stupid, and moronic statements you've become noted for.

Everything associated with that wall will have a cost - and I agree, it WILL be built. It will be built at a cost to your constitutional Liberties just as that link is also predicting. If you don't understand the correlation, you should read a few civics books and give it a rest on the posting. Those posts talked about a HELL of a lot more than what you claim. You must think that those who agree with you are total idiots and won't check it out for themselves. You may or may not be right, but if even one of them checks it out, they will begin thinking about the real costs of forfeiting their Liberty for a stupid wall.

Well I'll tell you what, if the wall is built and you lose some sort of liberty, start a topic on it and I'll be glad to be one of the first posters to tell you that you're right.

The Democrats have been trying to disarm America for as long as I remember. A wall won't change that pro or con. What secures our rights is not a wall, but an American unbiased Supreme Court which has already stopped Democrats from trying to make it more difficult and costly to secure our Second Amendment rights.

What you are trying to do is convince us that your predictions are set in stone. There is no truth to that. You can speculate all you want, but until you have some sort of evidence of your claim, it's moot just like anybody else's claims are here. When it comes to politics, you're not the only soothsayer in the bunch. Just read the topics on this service.

 

[OKTexas]

Really, a 100 mile section will be beginning the end of Jan. The President said he'll be there for the ground breaking. Puff on that commie.

.

You will believe anything.

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

Wow, your own link proves you're lying. The contracts discussed in the article weren't let more than 2 years ago.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You will believe anything.

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

Wow, your own link proves you're lying. The contracts discussed in the article weren't let more than 2 years ago.

.

They were part of the Secyre Fence Act. They have nothing to do with Trump and he awarded nothing.

He lied to you. You ask for more.

BTW, in future History texts, morons like you who supported the idea of a wall will be mocked and ridiculed. The chapter will be entitled "What Were They Thinking?". Subtitle: "Were They Thinking?"

 

[OKTexas]

Trump Says Contract Awarded to Build 115 Miles of Border Wall in Texas

.

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

Wow, your own link proves you're lying. The contracts discussed in the article weren't let more than 2 years ago.

.

They were part of the Secyre Fence Act. They have nothing to do with Trump and he awarded nothing.

He lied to you. You ask for more.

BTW, in future History texts, morons like you who supported the idea of a wall will be mocked and ridiculed. The chapter will be entitled "What Were They Thinking?". Subtitle: "Were They Thinking?"

Poor little child, this one paragraph from your link proves that's a lie.

In March, Congress approved funding for 33 miles (53 kilometers) of construction in South Texas’ Rio Grande Valley, the busiest corridor for illegal border crossings.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Secure Fence Act indeed. LMAO

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

He didn't award shit. You're a dupe.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

Wow, your own link proves you're lying. The contracts discussed in the article weren't let more than 2 years ago.

.

They were part of the Secyre Fence Act. They have nothing to do with Trump and he awarded nothing.

He lied to you. You ask for more.

BTW, in future History texts, morons like you who supported the idea of a wall will be mocked and ridiculed. The chapter will be entitled "What Were They Thinking?". Subtitle: "Were They Thinking?"

Poor little child, this one paragraph from your link proves that's a lie.

In March, Congress approved funding for 33 miles (53 kilometers) of construction in South Texas’ Rio Grande Valley, the busiest corridor for illegal border crossings.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Secure Fence Act indeed. LMAO

.

In MARCH!!!


This is not March.

Moron.

Go look at which legislation prompted the MARCH approval of funds.

Moron.

 

[Billo_Really]

People invading our country is a made up issue? 20 million people here illegally is not an issue? Drug problems in this country are not an issue? 70,000 overdose deaths a year is not an issue?

You are a disgusting, scapegoating racist.

How many more children do you want to die in US custody?

 

[Billo_Really]

No, allowing these people to come here and destroy our country is putting America last. Protecting our borders is putting Americans first. Please read my sig line.

This country is being destroyed by right wing lunatics who are throwing out facts and the rule of law.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yet you have no supporting evidence to your made-up claim. Sure we were pissed about Kavanaugh and what the dirty Democrats tried to do to this honest man, but it's a done issue. The ongoing issue is the wall.

Kavanaugh is a liar, drunk and attempted rapist. The fact that you think he's honest, shows your own lack of a moral compass. Which explains why you're so willing to sell out the country for this bullshit wall that ain't ever getting built.

 

[Billo_Really]

Tell that to the Democrats who shut down the government.

Spoken like a true piece of shit who can't take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[OKTexas]

Fact, new wall is being built and improvements are being made. You can play semantics all day, that doesn't change the facts.

.

I'm not playing semantics. You were lied to about the liar in chief awarding a contract for 115 miles of border wall. He lied to your face and you love it.

The shit that is being built or renovated today was ordered long before the liar happened upon the "build a wall" campaign gimmick.

Moron.

Wow, your own link proves you're lying. The contracts discussed in the article weren't let more than 2 years ago.

.

They were part of the Secyre Fence Act. They have nothing to do with Trump and he awarded nothing.

He lied to you. You ask for more.

BTW, in future History texts, morons like you who supported the idea of a wall will be mocked and ridiculed. The chapter will be entitled "What Were They Thinking?". Subtitle: "Were They Thinking?"

Poor little child, this one paragraph from your link proves that's a lie.

In March, Congress approved funding for 33 miles (53 kilometers) of construction in South Texas’ Rio Grande Valley, the busiest corridor for illegal border crossings.

AP FACT CHECK: Trump confuses, misleads on border wall

Secure Fence Act indeed. LMAO

.

In MARCH!!!


This is not March.

Moron.

Go look at which legislation prompted the MARCH approval of funds.

Moron.

Move the goal posts much?

They were part of the Secyre Fence Act.

Congressional appropriations in March were not part of the Secure Fence Act. Reading is fundamental.

.

 

[Lakhota]

Trump admitted that we don't need a wall.

 

[Billo_Really]

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

Not from the majority of Americans.