Why Interstellar Travel is Physically Impossible.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If, as physicists now maintain, space itself is expanding faster than the speed of light,

*only between two locations that are already very, very far apart

 

[toobfreak]

If, as physicists now maintain, space itself is expanding faster than the speed of light, then it is possible that it can be put to use as a tool for such incredibly long journeys.

Keep in mind BA that the expansion of spacetime is quit a different thing from a baryonic object traveling WITHIN spacetime! Each is subject to a different set of laws as spacetime carries with it no intrinsic kinetic mass upon which to be limited by c, so spacetime is free to expand at whatever rate forces demand of it.

 

[BackAgain]

*only between two locations that are already very, very far apart

I believe that’s the current view of physicists. It evidently wouldn’t work for relatively smaller journeys.

Not that we’re likely to see it in our lifetimes, if ever.

 

[BackAgain]

Keep in mind BA that the expansion of spacetime is quit a different thing from a baryonic object traveling WITHIN spacetime! Each is subject to a different set of laws as spacetime carries with it no intrinsic kinetic mass upon which to be limited by c, so spacetime is free to expand at whatever rate forces demand of it.

That is very near the way I’ve been led to understand it. And I use the term “understand” in a very narrow way. I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough to really comprehend much about advanced physics. Alas. I truly wish I was.

 

[task0778]

Zefrem Cochrane hasn't been born yet [he invented the warp drive]. Neither has Scotty.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

I went through a phase once of exploring the parallel universe notion.

I read Philip Pullman’s trilogy “His Dark Materials”. The book The Subtle Knife, described these two worlds.

The subtle knife, also known as Æsahættr or Τελευταίο Μαχαίρι, was a double-bladed knife, one of whose edges could slice through the fabric between the worlds of the multiverse, opening a portal between them, with the other edge capable of cutting any substance.

 

[toobfreak]

That is very near the way I’ve been led to understand it. And I use the term “understand” in a very narrow way. I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough to really comprehend much about advanced physics. Alas. I truly wish I was.

Here's a really good general book on all things astronomy related. It covers everything, from the universe and creation and cosmology and quantum science, down to galaxies, stellar dynamics, planets, moons, our solar system and life on Earth.

The Physical Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy (Series of Books in Astronomy): Shu, Frank: 9780935702057: Amazon.com: Books

Buy The Physical Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy (Series of Books in Astronomy) on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

 

[BackAgain]

Here's a really good general book on all things astronomy related. It covers everything, from the universe and creation and cosmology and quantum science, down to galaxies, stellar dynamics, planets, moons, our solar system and life on Earth.

The Physical Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy (Series of Books in Astronomy): Shu, Frank: 9780935702057: Amazon.com: Books

Buy The Physical Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy (Series of Books in Astronomy) on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

Thanks. I might give it a look-see.

 

[toobfreak]

Thanks. I might give it a look-see.

Frank excels in being able to explain things in very clear, more easily understandable ways rather than some people who try to be as technical and make things as complicated as they can.

There is a link you can click on and within it, it shows the table of contents. Just give the TOC a run down for the incredible breadth of that book!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I believe that’s the current view of physicists. It evidently wouldn’t work for relatively smaller journeys.

Not that we’re likely to see it in our lifetimes, if ever.

Okay, but that would mean your destination is also receding away from you faster than the speed of light.

But now I want to read more about it.

 

[ding]

I went through a phase once of exploring the parallel universe notion.

I read Philip Pullman’s trilogy “His Dark Materials”. The book The Subtle Knife, described these two worlds.

The subtle knife, also known as Æsahættr or Τελευταίο Μαχαίρι, was a double-bladed knife, one of whose edges could slice through the fabric between the worlds of the multiverse, opening a portal between them, with the other edge capable of cutting any substance.

One of my favorite shows.

 

[BackAgain]

Okay, but that would mean your destination is also receding away from you faster than the speed of light.

Clearly. Which is why we might hope for superliminal travel.

But now I want to read more about it.

Yep. It’s fascinating.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

One of my favorite shows.
View attachment 1242237

Never heard of it.

 

[ding]

Never heard of it.

Just as well. It would probably offend your sensibilities. But it is quite funny. They travel through infinite dimensions, blending dark humor with deep family dysfunction, cosmic horror, and complex, evolving, and often serialized, storylines. What's not to love?

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Just as well. It would probably offend your sensibilities.

Why would it?

Just because we’re culturally different?

 

[citygator]

Interstellar, no problem. Across the galaxy.. no way. Agree its impossible.

If it were possible what is the likelyhood we are the first one’s to develop in the universe to get this far? I assume trillions of civilizations are further along… and if trillions of civilizations aren’t here yet…. Well.. seems conclusive it can’t be done.

Also… it’s not just going fast. You also have to protect your ship from debris if you are going really fast. The impact of a tiny piece of sand to the hull of a near light speed vehicle would end that trip fast.

 

[ding]

Why would it?

Just because we’re culturally different?

No. Because it can be quite raunchy and dark. Rick is the smartest man in the universe and Morty is his grandson who is always making moral objections which usually backfire and make matters worse. According to Rick since there are infinite universes nothing really matters. With that said, his behaviors often times belie his belief. It's quite funny and thought provoking, but then again I am a sicko so it may only be funny to me.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

We wont be using rocket fuel for interstellar travel. At a minimum we will use nuclear reactors. We could also end up with wild tech light "light sails". It definitely wont be rocket fuel though.

Nuclear reactors can't even begin to create enough energy to propel a ship light years away. Nuclear is energy dense, but it does not create the kind of energy needed for propulsion.
Also - remember the tiny-teeny space ship the size of a car?
Well - it would take the power of 3 modern Nuclear reactor plants to produce enough energy for just one light year. To move something that only weighs a few hundred pounds.
To move an intergalactic massive ship. No, friend - again the math just doesn't work.
But never mind that. That is just one problem.
Then you have the integrity of the hull. Traveling at such fantastic speeds will create incredible tension and strain on the ship. Remember when I said "how would you contain such power?" The sheer massive propulsion needed would tear the ship into pieces. The "engine" would shoot right out of it. You can't contain that kind of power.

The next best idea is a "gravity drive" - now that could work. And the math actually works that gravity should be able to be controlled. Now we are talkin'!! But dammit! Physics gets in the way again!! That only solves the energy problem! If you could control gravity with enough power to propel an interstellar ship -when you stop - you might destroy the solar system you just entered.
Darn it!

 

[toobfreak]

Interstellar, no problem. Across the galaxy.. no way. Agree its impossible.

If interstellar travel is no problem then getting across the galaxy can't be too hard neither.

Also… it’s not just going fast. You also have to protect your ship from debris if you are going really fast.

Way out of your league, Gator--- to functionally travel among the stars in any sort of practical way not taking 70,000 years, your vehicle would have to leave ordinary space where all space debris is. Any true interstellar vessel can be thought more as a time ship than a space ship, after all, getting to other stars is not the problem, we already have Voyager II on the way to another star and it has already left the heliosphere of the Sun. The actual problem is the TIME it will take getting there in ordinary space.

As it is, just orbiting the Earth, the ISS can be struck my incoming micro-meteors which already carry the impact of a bullet and can punch holes through solar panels or ship walls, no need to be going really really fast to be hurt by space debris.

 

[JohnDB]

Humans have the ability to travel great distances in space. You just need a giant ship full of fuel and food and a lot of people. The only problem is, the people who originally embarked on the journey will be dead before they reach it, but their descendants will make it there.

The interesting thing is though, it would take a couple thousand years to get to an habitable planet in a nearby solar system, so you would see wars waged on this ship. Many empires would rise and fall before it reached its destination. Their culture would change dramatically from the culture they once had on Earth. They would be unrecognizable to us back home.

Not really....
Time displacement is a strange phenomenon. As a craft reaches significant portions of the speed of light after accelerating for more than a year to reach 1G gravity (amount of energy needed is enormous)....the time dilation effect begins.
Where here on Earth time moves normally....on the spacecraft time moves very slowly. As it leaves the solar system this becomes even more pronounced. Think of time moving forward like a honey dipper in a jar of honey spinning the honey.

So....descendants aren't really needed.

But whatever time the spacecraft needed to accelerate it will need the same amount to decelerate. (Navigation is going to be insanely difficult)

The important part is that everyone here on earth will be dead long before the spacecraft returns and can tell us anything. America is 250 years old....and 250 years is nothing for spacecraft travel.