Why I support eliminating the Federal Level Department of "Education".

[WorldWatcher]

Elementary and middle school kids are too young to evaluate. Age 40 is a good age. They've put their education to use for 20 years more or less by that time.

So you exempt some schools by not others, resulting in different school funding plans. Got it.

How about public colleges and universities? Should they be evaluated on the "worth" of graduates at some point in the future? If so what age?

Base school founding now on people that attended school 22 years ago for high school and maybe some other age for college?

Sounds like a solid plan.

WW

 

[Woodznutz]

So you exempt some schools by not others, resulting in different school funding plans. Got it.

How about public colleges and universities? Should they be evaluated on the "worth" of graduates at some point in the future? If so what age?

Base school founding now on people that attended school 22 years ago for high school and maybe some other age for college?

Sounds like a solid plan.

WW

Elementary school, middle school, high school, college; the whole system should be judged, but only after the product has been in use for a reasonable time, thus age 40.

That said each class could be judged at the end of the school year. Has the system helped these kids become better morally as well as becoming smarter? This should be asked of every succeeding class. What happens now is that kids are observed, much like observing someone drowning instead of pulling them out of the water.

 

[Woodznutz]

So you exempt some schools by not others, resulting in different school funding plans. Got it.

That's already being done nationwide (with no help from me).

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[Woodznutz]

50 million drugs users in America. Did they learn nothing in school? Oh wait, most of their teachers likely smoked pot.

 

[WorldWatcher]

50 million drugs users in America. Did they learn nothing in school? Oh wait, most of their teachers likely smoked pot.

I get that you don't agree with public education. Or at least that public education should teach to your morality standard. BTW is that a religious standard? Are you Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Native American? Which morality standard is supposed to apply.

My main issue though is your idea that public school funding today should be based on the "worth" of someone in their 40's. "Worth" being a judgmental qualitative term and not a quantitative term.

WW

 

[Woodznutz]

I get that you don't agree with public education. Or at least that public education should teach to your morality standard. BTW is that a religious standard? Are you Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindi, Native American? Which morality standard is supposed to apply.

My main issue though is your idea that public school funding today should be based on the "worth" of someone in their 40's. "Worth" being a judgmental qualitative term and not a quantitative term.

WW

Any reasonable moral standard. At 40 you're either a productive member of society or you're a drag. I mentioned drug use because each user has helped to bring this horrible scourge, including the immigrant debacle, upon us.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Any reasonable moral standard. At 40 you're either a productive member of society or you're a drag. I mentioned drug use because each user has helped to bring this horrible scourge, including the immigrant debacle, upon us.

I think you missing the point.

It was your claim that funding for public schools TODAY, should be made based on your assessment (you haven't outlined specific criteria*** beyond income, social, family) TODAY of people that graduated high school 22 years ago. That makes no sense.

It separates by two decades the case (schools 20 years ago) with results today.

*** Criteria:

• How much money does someone have to make to have "worth"?
• Does single/married factor into worth?
• Does divorce factor into worth?
• Should we review medical histories to see if someone has ever had an abortion?
• Drunk driving?
• Are they required to have kids? If so how many? Do they have to be married to the father/mother of their children?
• Are people that attend Church deemed to have more "worth" than someone who doesn't attend religious services?
• Do we factor in charitable contributions or volunteer time? Those doing so have more "worth" than someone that his working two jobs just to pay the bills?

As I pointed out "worth" is very subjective, so let's here some specifics on how you evaluate the "worth" of a 40 year old.

WW

 

[Woodznutz]

I think you missing the point.

It was your claim that funding for public schools TODAY, should be made based on your assessment (you haven't outlined specific criteria*** beyond income, social, family) TODAY of people that graduated high school 22 years ago. That makes no sense.

It separates by two decades the case (schools 20 years ago) with results today.

*** Criteria:

• How much money does someone have to make to have "worth"?
• Does single/married factor into worth?
• Does divorce factor into worth?
• Should we review medical histories to see if someone has ever had an abortion?
• Drunk driving?
• Are they required to have kids? If so how many? Do they have to be married to the father/mother of their children?
• Are people that attend Church deemed to have more "worth" than someone who doesn't attend religious services?
• Do we factor in charitable contributions or volunteer time? Those doing so have more "worth" than someone that his working two jobs just to pay the bills?

As I pointed out "worth" is very subjective, so let's here some specifics on how you evaluate the "worth" of a 40 year old.

WW

A 40 y/o should know better than to drive drunk. Divorce is ok if no mischief follows, and any kids are cared for. Responsible citizenship greatly reduces the need for charities. Have as many kids as you can support. Does the medical history include drug use or alcohol abuse, or injury due to dangerous activities, or a lack of personal care? Some debt is ok if it is 'good debt' such as a mortgage. Absent from your list is criminal behavior.

At 40 your life has consequences beyond your own life. Were you made aware of that in school? School is the place where we're supposed to learn this stuff.

 

[WorldWatcher]

A 40 y/o should know better than to drive drunk. Divorce is ok if no mischief follows, and any kids are cared for. Responsible citizenship greatly reduces the need for charities. Have as many kids as you can support. Does the medical history include drug use or alcohol abuse, or injury due to dangerous activities, or a lack of personal care? Some debt is ok if it is 'good debt' such as a mortgage. Absent from your list is criminal behavior.

At 40 your life has consequences beyond your own life. Were you made aware of that in school? School is the place where we're supposed to learn this stuff.

So you are going to punish schools today, because of some evaluation of "worth" based on someone that hasn't stepped foot in the schools you want to base funding on in 22 years.

That's a solid plan, you should run for our local School Board on that model.

WW

 

[Unkotare]

...School is the place where we're supposed to learn this stuff.

No, it's not.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, it's not.

The alternative is our own devices. The Bible tells us that we are 'destroyed for lack of knowledge'. Where is practical, meaningful knowledge to come from if not our educational system?

 

[Unkotare]

The alternative is our own devices.

NO, the alternative is that people learn such things at home. As it should be. School is not your mommy.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

For the Historically atrophied Left, the entire department, a well as the Cabinet level position were both formed in 1978 by Jimmah Cahtah as payola to the NEA and teachers' unions nationwide for their 1976 endorsement. Since then, Educational performance has been circling the toilet bowl with no end in sight.
Ebonics, Outcome-Based Education, Common Core, NCLB, etc. Standards keep right on getting lowered and lowered. Now with the uptick in homeschooling, charter school enrollment (bear in mind Charters are very much public schools, but with much higher standards for both student AND teacher accountability), and the push for vouchers (which BTW I support), the Left has a boogeyman-school choice. Both the Education department AND Cabinet level Secretary need to be shitcanned and full 100% control of the schools need to be returned to the local and state level.

I worked as a SUB teacher and a paraprofessional for a number of years. Teaching jobs are very hard to get, harder to land than jobs in the private sector in my own experience. Most the teachers I met seemed pretty smart, well educated, and very good at their jobs. Most worked their ass off and had to work harder than a job for the same pay in the private sector. I got my master's in education, but never landed that teaching job. Instead, I been working jobs in the private sector and now I work in healthcare. I probably worked harder as a teacher's aide and had way more stress than the current job I am at now in healthcare. My salary in healthcare is quadruple what I was making as a paraprofessional and a little higher than what teachers make in my state.

The problem I found a lot of times was not the teachers but the students and the parents. How can you get a student to make good grades when he refuses to do any work or take tests, has severe behavior problems, has drug problems, and his parents use the kid as a punching bag, and they are drug addicts? Still, they blame the teacher for their child's poor performance in school.

 

[Moonglow]

For the Historically atrophied Left, the entire department, a well as the Cabinet level position were both formed in 1978 by Jimmah Cahtah as payola to the NEA and teachers' unions nationwide for their 1976 endorsement. Since then, Educational performance has been circling the toilet bowl with no end in sight.
Ebonics, Outcome-Based Education, Common Core, NCLB, etc. Standards keep right on getting lowered and lowered. Now with the uptick in homeschooling, charter school enrollment (bear in mind Charters are very much public schools, but with much higher standards for both student AND teacher accountability), and the push for vouchers (which BTW I support), the Left has a boogeyman-school choice. Both the Education department AND Cabinet level Secretary need to be shitcanned and full 100% control of the schools need to be returned to the local and state level.

It was created by Congress not Jimmy Carter.

 

[GMCGeneral]

For the Historically atrophied Left, the entire department, a well as the Cabinet level position were both formed in 1978 by Jimmah Cahtah as payola to the NEA and teachers' unions nationwide for their 1976 endorsement. Since then, Educational performance has been circling the toilet bowl with no end in sight.
Ebonics, Outcome-Based Education, Common Core, NCLB, etc. Standards keep right on getting lowered and lowered. Now with the uptick in homeschooling, charter school enrollment (bear in mind Charters are very much public schools, but with much higher standards for both student AND teacher accountability), and the push for vouchers (which BTW I support), the Left has a boogeyman-school choice. Both the Education department AND Cabinet level Secretary need to be shitcanned and full 100% control of the schools need to be returned to the local and state level.

Looks like this is becoming reality. Revert all but the special needs issues back to the states where it belongs.

 

[Unkotare]

Looks like this is becoming reality. Revert all but the special needs issues back to the states where it belongs.

That’s where it is now.

 

[dblack]

I support eliminating the DOE. But I support consensus government more.

 

[GMCGeneral]

That’s where it is now.

Not really. You people want education to be 100% under Federal Control. The Dept. Of Education is redundant and unnecessary

 

[WorldWatcher]

Not really. You people want education to be 100% under Federal Control. The Dept. Of Education is redundant and unnecessary

Which is fine. Cut the Dept. of Education 100%.

Let the states fund education as they see fit.

Use the money saved to pay down the debt.

WW

 

[Unkotare]

Not really.

Yes, really.