Why higher education should be free

[Uncensored2008]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Saigon is too stupid and insane to understand....

Saigon will shout that Finland has 100% government paid universities.

What he WON'T point out is that the percentage of the population allowed into the universities is about 9%.

In the USA about 60% of the population attends at least some level of higher education.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Let's sum up the stupidity coming out of Saigon....

A smaller, mostly white country like Finland with less minority groups and people in general than the USA has a better k-12 school system than the USA, because it is mostly white and smaller than the USA.

Of course, that also means Finland is better with their end results of the school system by sending some students to inferior colleges and some to trade schools based on some tests in high school.

Insanity....

 

[DiamondDave]

How smart is a group of people that pays 30% income tax, an additional 20% municipal tax, ~5% for mandatory insurance, 18% forced pension, social security, 30% on investment, an additional 23% VAT, etc...???

Hell.. just let the commie motherland just take it all minus the cost of a couple bottles of government produced vodka, sit in a circle and sing kumbaya??

 

[Toro]

On public schools, supposedly Canada ranks higher than the US, but it is my opinion that my son's American public schooling is better than my Canadian public schooling. It is harder and more comprehensive.

When understanding the problems inner city schools in the US, people should watch The Wire in the season which focused on the Baltimore inner city schools.

On Universities, the best schools in the world are in the US, for the most part. However, some of the worst schools are as well. Many of these for-profit technical schools are a joke whereby people take on huge loans and are often unemployable when they get out.

Schooling reflects culture. America has wide societal disparities, so the schools will also. The average may be higher in other countries, but the best are in America, as are the worst.

 

[Uncensored2008]

On public schools, supposedly Canada ranks higher than the US, but it is my opinion that my son's American public schooling is better than my Canadian public schooling. It is harder and more comprehensive.

When understanding the problems inner city schools in the US, people should watch The Wire in the season which focused on the Baltimore inner city schools.

On Universities, the best schools in the world are in the US, for the most part. However, some of the worst schools are as well. Many of these for-profit technical schools are a joke whereby people take on huge loans and are often unemployable when they get out.

Schooling reflects culture. America has wide societal disparities, so the schools will also. The average may be higher in other countries, but the best are in America, as are the worst.

Technical schools are important, though. Air conditioning and Heating, electrical repair, even cosmetology are areas that people can get jobs in.

My wife teaches cosmetology and loves to show that over double the number of students who graduate from her school find work in their field within 12 months than do those graduating from U.C. Riverside. (A local, high end University.)

Not everyone needs a bachelors. A lot of people with a bachelors in Liberal Arts or other underwater basket weaving majors are unemployable when they graduate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Forcing someone to pay for goods/services provided to others is involutary servitude.
Involuntary servitude is outlawed by the Constitution.

 

[Wiseacre]

On public schools, supposedly Canada ranks higher than the US, but it is my opinion that my son's American public schooling is better than my Canadian public schooling. It is harder and more comprehensive.

When understanding the problems inner city schools in the US, people should watch The Wire in the season which focused on the Baltimore inner city schools.

On Universities, the best schools in the world are in the US, for the most part. However, some of the worst schools are as well. Many of these for-profit technical schools are a joke whereby people take on huge loans and are often unemployable when they get out.

Schooling reflects culture. America has wide societal disparities, so the schools will also. The average may be higher in other countries, but the best are in America, as are the worst.

Technical schools are important, though. Air conditioning and Heating, electrical repair, even cosmetology are areas that people can get jobs in.

My wife teaches cosmetology and loves to show that over double the number of students who graduate from her school find work in their field within 12 months than do those graduating from U.C. Riverside. (A local, high end University.)

Not everyone needs a bachelors. A lot of people with a bachelors in Liberal Arts or other underwater basket weaving majors are unemployable when they graduate.

I think we need partnerships between businesses and schools to make sure at least technical schools train kids to be employable and maybe have a job when they're done. I hear squawkin' about jobs going begging cuz we don't have people with specific skills to do the work. Well for God's sake, let's do something about it. I'd even kick in taxpayer money to help, probably would be a lot more cost effective than the stimulus money was.

 

[Toro]

On public schools, supposedly Canada ranks higher than the US, but it is my opinion that my son's American public schooling is better than my Canadian public schooling. It is harder and more comprehensive.

When understanding the problems inner city schools in the US, people should watch The Wire in the season which focused on the Baltimore inner city schools.

On Universities, the best schools in the world are in the US, for the most part. However, some of the worst schools are as well. Many of these for-profit technical schools are a joke whereby people take on huge loans and are often unemployable when they get out.

Schooling reflects culture. America has wide societal disparities, so the schools will also. The average may be higher in other countries, but the best are in America, as are the worst.

Technical schools are important, though. Air conditioning and Heating, electrical repair, even cosmetology are areas that people can get jobs in.

My wife teaches cosmetology and loves to show that over double the number of students who graduate from her school find work in their field within 12 months than do those graduating from U.C. Riverside. (A local, high end University.)

Not everyone needs a bachelors. A lot of people with a bachelors in Liberal Arts or other underwater basket weaving majors are unemployable when they graduate.

There are some very good technical schools and there are some very bad ones as well. I didn't intend to impugn all the adult for-profit schools.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There are some very good technical schools and there are some very bad ones as well. I didn't intend to impugn all the adult for-profit schools.

Oh, I understand. And you're right, there are some terrible ones. I saw a TV ad for a school training security guards. Fer christs sake, security guards make minimum wage, why would anyone go to school for that?

 

[jillian]

Forcing someone to pay for goods/services provided to others is involutary servitude.
Involuntary servitude is outlawed by the Constitution.

no. it isn't.

*sigh*

 

[Uncensored2008]

no. it isn't.

*sigh*

There's that Jillian legal training coming in again.....

{Article XIII.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. }

Hmmm, maybe another couple of "Law and Order" reruns will clear things up for you?

 

[Erand7899]

I got the road to serfdom upstairs to read...so that's great..So what would happen to k-12 schools if the government isn't involved in them? We have to start paying for them or no?

We already pay for the k-12 schools. Government has no money that it does not first take from the people. We pay a hefty price for public education, somewhere in the $8,000 to $12,000 range, per student, per 180 days of school each year. The cost keeps going up, while the quality of education continues to decrease.

The reasons are simple. Public education is a virtual monopoly, and those reaping the benefits of this monopoly fight hard to keep it that way. Teachers and administrators are well paid, have good benefits and retirement, and almost no accountability for results. And, they only work 9 months per year.

College costs are higher than they should be because the federal government is throwing more and more money at people who want to attend college. Colleges and universities continue to raise their rates to absorb as much of this money as possible. Now, it is almost impossible to attend a college or university without government assistance and loans, unless one has rich parents.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Forcing someone to pay for goods/services provided to others is involutary servitude.
Involuntary servitude is outlawed by the Constitution.

no. it isn't.
*sigh*

Since you just re-entered 8th grade, I thought you'd be famiiliar with the 13th amendment by now.
Guess not.

 

[M14 Shooter]

no. it isn't.

*sigh*

There's that Jillian legal training coming in again.....

{Article XIII.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. }

Hmmm, maybe another couple of "Law and Order" reruns will clear things up for you?

She doesn't know what "involuintary servitude" means.
Even after Googling it. Thrice.

 

[eflatminor]

no. it isn't.

*sigh*

There's that Jillian legal training coming in again.....

{Article XIII.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. }

Hmmm, maybe another couple of "Law and Order" reruns will clear things up for you?

She doesn't know what "involuintary servitude" means.
Even after Googling it. Thrice.

But, but, but...she said "sigh" and as we all know, that's a bullet proof retort when debating. There is no come back to "sigh". There just isn't!

 

[M14 Shooter]

There's that Jillian legal training coming in again.....

{Article XIII.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. }

Hmmm, maybe another couple of "Law and Order" reruns will clear things up for you?

She doesn't know what "involuintary servitude" means.
Even after Googling it. Thrice.

But, but, but...she said "sigh" and as we all know, that's a bullet proof retort when debating. There is no come back to "sigh". There just isn't!

That's Jilliianspeak for "I just know you're wrong but I cannot for the life of me figure out how."

 

[eflatminor]

She doesn't know what "involuintary servitude" means.
Even after Googling it. Thrice.

But, but, but...she said "sigh" and as we all know, that's a bullet proof retort when debating. There is no come back to "sigh". There just isn't!

That's Jilliianspeak for "I just know you're wrong but I cannot for the life of me figure out how."

Otherwise known as the "Because I said so" defense. Works every time...

 

[M14 Shooter]

But, but, but...she said "sigh" and as we all know, that's a bullet proof retort when debating. There is no come back to "sigh". There just isn't!

That's Jilliianspeak for "I just know you're wrong but I cannot for the life of me figure out how."

Otherwise known as the "Because I said so" defense. Works every time...

Her deeper peer-related discussions took place behind the big oak tree near the blue swingset - so you can only expect so much.

 

[alan1]

Having a well educated workforce that can keep high tech jobs at home is just like having an advanced industrial infrastructure. We invest in roads, bridges, energy grids ... because we need these things. Education is just as vital as infrastructure. China educates more of its children than the USA, and they are currently cleaning our clock. [American capitalists are the single biggest ally of China, from whom they get so much of their cheap labor] The Right has been manipulated to hate government because government has a flaw: it can be used democratically to make decisions against the money which funds elections, staffs governments, and runs the world. The wealthy people who own government want tax breaks so they can leave dynastic inheritances to their families; they don't want education for the nation.

Actually, we do have a well educated workforce.
If I can pay $40 an hour for a well educated computer code developer in say India, and that same code developer in the USA costs me $45 an hour and government forced benefits, guess who I am going to hire?

 

[Saigon]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Saigon is too stupid and insane to understand....

Saigon will shout that Finland has 100% government paid universities.

What he WON'T point out is that the percentage of the population allowed into the universities is about 9%.

In the USA about 60% of the population attends at least some level of higher education.

Actually, it isn't 100% government paid, as there are also some private institutes.

The total number of Americans with tertiary education is the highest in the world - but that is balanced by the fact that it is a relatively low standard of college education. A college degree in the US is not as high level a a Bachelors from other countries. People go to college two years younger than university begins here.

Finland has a vastly higher % of master degres than the US.

I'm not saying one system is better than the other - I am saying that it is worth considering what options the US might have.


Gone Beserk -

If you have 3 degrees, why can't you read and write properly?

I'm not even going to mention your gaffes on history!