Why God is Unknowable Unless He Reveals Himself

[Concerned American]

I believe God created man to have an instinctive knowledge of right and wrong

This is simply not true.
The history of the world should have proven that. Man leans evil. But Man is held responsible for the choices he makes

Au contraire, temptation exists. Man knows what is right and wrong and that is why he is held responsible. Man leans evil because of the tremendous draw of temptation.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

There is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.

We know ‘god’ exists as a contrivance of man – a fact settled, accepted, and beyond dispute; nothing more needs to be ‘revealed.’

 

[Concerned American]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

There is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.

We know ‘god’ exists as a contrivance of man – a fact settled, accepted, and beyond dispute; nothing more needs to be ‘revealed.’

Another moron opens his ignorant mouth---AGAIN.

 

[itfitzme]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

I already have had REVELATION and it isn't what you think.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The mind and spirit is a function of the brain the brain is of the body

Jesus disagrees. I KNOW Jesus. I dont know you. You are just another of His created beings with no special knowledge

There was no ‘Jesus’ as perceived by Christians.

Like ‘god’ and religion, ‘Jesus’ is a creation of man – nothing more; a mythical amalgam of the Mystery religions, ancient Hebrew myths, and Hellenistic beliefs.

 

[occupied]

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

God is present in bad times as well. I've always thought it a mistake to blame God, or for that matter to expect from Him what the world cannot give.

Why worship a supposedly omnipotent being if it chooses to be the worst deadbeat dad ever?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We have come to a consensus on what constitutes scientific proof. What's the problem with some people wanting that same proof for the existence of gods?

You can demand proof, but other than our existence and the existence of the universe, there is no "proof" that you demand. God isnt confined to our world/universe.

What is outside our universe is UNKNOWABLE. Jesus said He is not of our world. By this He means far more than our "planet."

He also says the Father CALLS whom HE chooses.

Every Christian who knows God, only knows Him because He has REVEALD HIMSELF.

Computer generated beings, even when they become sentient, can never understand an existence OUTSIDE of their own universe.

Some things are simply UNKNOWABLE

Questions with unknowable answers are practically meaningless. They are certainly not worth fighting over.

And yet they are fought over – resulting in destruction, misery, and countless deaths.

 

[Concerned American]

There was no ‘Jesus’ as perceived by Christians.

According to the ignorant moron.

 

[occupied]

We have come to a consensus on what constitutes scientific proof. What's the problem with some people wanting that same proof for the existence of gods?

You can demand proof, but other than our existence and the existence of the universe, there is no "proof" that you demand. God isnt confined to our world/universe.

What is outside our universe is UNKNOWABLE. Jesus said He is not of our world. By this He means far more than our "planet."

He also says the Father CALLS whom HE chooses.

Every Christian who knows God, only knows Him because He has REVEALD HIMSELF.

Computer generated beings, even when they become sentient, can never understand an existence OUTSIDE of their own universe.

Some things are simply UNKNOWABLE

Questions with unknowable answers are practically meaningless. They are certainly not worth fighting over.

And yet they are fought over – resulting in destruction, misery, and countless deaths.

Religion is nationalism by another name.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why not? All God has to do is one of those miracles it is described to have done in the Bible.

Proof that miracles were not enough to bring people to God. Since God already tried miracles and that didn't work, do you have something new and different for Him to try?

There are no ‘miracles’ because there is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.

And the notion of ‘bringing people’ to ‘god’ is yet anther example of the arrogance of theists.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

I don't know, maybe it is because of where I live, but I can't rise in the morning and look out the window and not know God. His existence is undeniable in the world around me. He has made himself known to anyone with open eyes.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

Many people in my life have died. It is irrelevant to whether or not God exists.

No human has lived forever. We ALL die at our appointed time.

"It is appointed to all men once to die."

The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil

 

[occupied]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

I don't know, maybe it is because of where I live, but I can't rise in the morning and look out the window and not know God. His existence is undeniable in the world around me. He has made himself known to anyone with open eyes.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

Many people in my life have died. It is irrelevant to whether or not God exists.

No human has lived forever. We ALL die at our appointed time.

"It is appointed to all men once to die."

The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil

Faith is a personal thing. For me the breaking point was my saintly mother living through a paralyzing stroke just to find out she had the worst kind of colon cancer. She suffered the torments of the damned for six months until she died. She worshiped God all her life just to be cursed with the worst kind of lingering death. Maybe your faith can live with things like that but mine couldn't.

 

[itfitzme]

Why God is Unknowable Unless He Reveals Himself​

Best way I've ever seen it put. God reveals himself to those who are ready to understand him: those who wish to satisfy their scientific curiosity wanting to objectively measure God with a yardstick like a zucchini and quantify him never will. We understand God on His terms and in his time. There is no place to go, God comes to those who are sincere and is the most elusive thing to find in the world to the skeptics looking, for God Understanding happens within the spiritual heart, not inside the organic brain.

The heart is nothing but a muscle and what you call spirit is nothing but a product of the mind.

YOU DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THAT. You manufactured that belief in YOUR mind! Vedic science confirmed by scholars down through the ages have operated on the belief of a spiritual body that goes along with the physical one and there has been some scientifically circumstantial evidence to support that. Please don't try to tell me you know better or can prove otherwise.

Religion is basically a faith system in a higher controlling force overseeing our destiny.

Atheism is just another faith system placing man in control of himself.

Vedic science is just mysticism.

And I'm not an atheist but I do not believe that any part of a person other than his constituent atoms remain after the body dies. The mind and spirit is a function of the brain the brain is of the body. If the brain sustains an injury our very sense of self can be altered substantially which has been proven scientifically. If there was a spirit that was not of the body then a simple injury could not change the very nature of a person.

Explain this...

I dreamed I was bird last night. That doesn't mean I was a bird.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

I don't know, maybe it is because of where I live, but I can't rise in the morning and look out the window and not know God. His existence is undeniable in the world around me. He has made himself known to anyone with open eyes.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

Many people in my life have died. It is irrelevant to whether or not God exists.

No human has lived forever. We ALL die at our appointed time.

"It is appointed to all men once to die."

The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil

Faith is a personal thing. For me the breaking point was my saintly mother living through a paralyzing stroke just to find out she had the worst kind of colon cancer. She suffered the torments of the damned for six months until she died. She worshiped God all her life just to be cursed with the worst kind of lingering death. Maybe your faith can live with things like that but mine couldn't.

She is healed now

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

God is present in bad times as well. I've always thought it a mistake to blame God, or for that matter to expect from Him what the world cannot give.

Why worship a supposedly omnipotent being if it chooses to be the worst deadbeat dad ever?

If you're not a Christian, He is not your dad

 

[itfitzme]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

Why not? All God has to do is one of those miracles it is described to have done in the Bible.

Proof that miracles were not enough to bring people to God. Since God already tried miracles and that didn't work, do you have something new and different for Him to try?

There are no ‘miracles’ because there is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.

And the notion of ‘bringing people’ to ‘god’ is yet anther example of the arrogance of theists.

What are you even talking about?

There is reality and there is fantasy. Reality is what exists and there are definitive natural laws to how reality works. Then there is the fantasies you make up in your own head. Reality is complicated. We don't have absolute knowledge. The unexpected happens. We have to believe that today will be a good day and we won't die because if we didn't, there would be no point to getting out of bed in the morning. No matter how many jobs I apply for, I still have to believe that this next one will be the one because otherwise, why bother. And, like all creatures, life strives. It's better to believe that I'll get that job than to wait till I'm so hungry I am going to die and I can't by food because I didn't get up everyday last month and look for work. I can't let myself learn from the experience of having been turned down, time and time again. And when I finally do get that job after trying for weeks, that's a f'in miracle.

But that doesn't mean GOD exists.

No matter how much you believe, if you suffer from cerebrals palsy, no manner of praying is going to cause you to be able to walk. There's no miracle that is going to cause you to be able to fly. No miracle that is going to make you go without air for an hour.

Car accidents are rare, but they do happen. We have evidence that car accidents happen. So we wear a seatbelt to prepare for that rare event. So when we are in a car accident, is it a miracle that we wore a seatbelt? No, we were smart enough to wear one. Do seatbelts guarantee you won't die in an auto accident? No. More often than not, shit just happens. Sometimes for the good, sometimes not. More often than not, $#!t just happens or doesn't

Do people get struck by lightning? Yes. And if they do, is that a miracle? Or is it a miracle that they didn't die? No,$#!t just happens or doesn't.

Just because nature is more complicated than you can comprehend doesn't make it so that God is a real thing.

The problem here is that you don't have a functional definition of what you mean by "GOD" or what you mean by "miracle". But your lack of knowledge and your fantasies don't make something real, no matter how much you believe it. Does that mean you should suspend all belief? Of course not. It just means you should work a bit harder at knowing the difference between what is real and what isn't, what you really know and what you don't. And if you need to believe that this undefinable thing that you call GOD is watching over you because that's what gets you up in the morning then that's wonderful.

All atheist's are saying is that there is what is real and there is fantasy. There is what you need to believe, like I'm gonna get this job, and there is what you need to know, like bacteria and viruses exist. You can do that without needing to be an idiot or insane.

The real question is, why is it so important to you that someone else doesn't buy into your belief in something that you can show exists, or even define in a succinct manner?

Belief is what you have when you don't have knowledge and facts. We share a common reality. We share knowledge and facts. Belief is personal. So why are you trying to convince others?

Seems more like you don't believe in yourself. That's something that you should work on.

 

[occupied]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

I don't know, maybe it is because of where I live, but I can't rise in the morning and look out the window and not know God. His existence is undeniable in the world around me. He has made himself known to anyone with open eyes.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened

Occasionally you end up standing by the deathbed of someone you love more than your own life and your faith dies with them. People choose not to believe for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's a good reason. It's easier to believe God does not exist than to walk around hating him for the evil he allows to triumph despite our best efforts.

Many people in my life have died. It is irrelevant to whether or not God exists.

No human has lived forever. We ALL die at our appointed time.

"It is appointed to all men once to die."

The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil

Faith is a personal thing. For me the breaking point was my saintly mother living through a paralyzing stroke just to find out she had the worst kind of colon cancer. She suffered the torments of the damned for six months until she died. She worshiped God all her life just to be cursed with the worst kind of lingering death. Maybe your faith can live with things like that but mine couldn't.

She is healed now

Your easy answer is of no comfort. Faith and religion just didn't work out for a lot of people. Try not to take it too personally. For every asshole that mocks your faith there are many others who feel God failed them or were directly harmed by religion.

 

[Meriweather]

Why worship a supposedly omnipotent being if it chooses to be the worst deadbeat dad ever?

I wonder what it is like having so many people deciding who you "really" are with no interest in getting to know and understand the actual you.

 

[Meriweather]

Faith and religion just didn't work out for a lot of people.

I agree.

 

[itfitzme]

Atheists always demand proof of God's existence. But there can never be the kind of proof they demand.

The Computer Age has made our relationship with God a little more understandable and shows us why He is UNKNOWABLE unless He chooses to reveal Himself.

Within 100 years, computer game characters will be, for all practical purposes, sentient beings. But how would it be possible for them to understand a world outside of 5he one we created for them?

Their universe has a set of laws that govern their world and there is no way for them to violate the laws of their universe

And unless we (their creators) revealbour existence to them, how can they know about a world outside of their own?

Our existence is UNKNOWABLE without REVELATION.

Reality isn't a computer game. That's not even an analogy. It might be a metaphor except it is being applied to something that is, in fact, false.

A very intelligent computer will recognize they are a computer and gain knowledge that they are, in fact, originally designed by human beings that evolved in nature in a universe.

Does a dog need to be aware that they are the result of natural selection to be sentient?

See, your difficulty here is that you are forcing your definition of intelligent, sentient, to fit the belief you are so desperately trying to hold on to. Your definition of sentient is restricted to "aware of oneself but lacking sufficient knowledge to understand the detailed physical laws of the universe". What we call that is ignorance.

Are dogs ignorant. Well not so much as you demonstrate yourself to be. Ignorance is a product of having the opportunity to have knowledge and choosing to ignore it. Dogs can't really be said to be ignorant. They just lack certain intellectual tools to either express their knowledge in a manner that we can recognize, lack the ability to learn enough about the natural laws of the universe, or are smart enough to get fed every day without having to go to work. Kind of hard to tell. They are really cooperative and aren't saying.