Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

 

[The T]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

One word...CONTROL (over the masses)...

The people in thier eyes are too stupid to have liberty.

The Founders had a term for them...Tyrants.

 

[ladyliberal]

Well, first I would note that violence is natural, and many animals experience much more violent lives than the average human.

As to why government is generally ultimately backed by force, I'm not sure what other way there is to govern. Governing someone is impossible unless one can make that person do things they don't want to do. Nonviolence is great, but as far as I know no nonviolent movement has ever governed a nation-state (even Vatican City has its Swiss Guard and an armed police force: Corps of Gendarmerie of Vatican City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

 

[ladyliberal]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

One word...CONTROL (over the masses)...

The people in thier eyes are too stupid to have liberty.

The Founders had a term for them...Tyrants.

The founders so far as I know did not generically label the collecting of taxes backed by armed might tyranny. Indeed, each new state collected taxes in this manner, and the US Constitution was written largely so that the federal government could collect taxes to pay down its war debt.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

One word...CONTROL (over the masses)...

The people in thier eyes are too stupid to have liberty.

The Founders had a term for them...Tyrants.

yes, imagine your neighbor coming to you with a gun and forcing you to contribute to some cause he liked. But, when liberals do that through government it somehow becomes peaceful, legitimate, and a sign of their moral superiority? How on earth?????

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

One word...CONTROL (over the masses)...

The people in thier eyes are too stupid to have liberty.

The Founders had a term for them...Tyrants.

The founders so far as I know did not generically label the collecting of taxes backed by arm might tyranny. Indeed, each new state collected taxes in this manner, and the US Constitution was written largely so that the federal government could collect taxes to pay down its war debt.

but you leave out that the entire idea was to limit government tax violence and use what little revenue they collected for basic purposes, not charity, entitlements, or to buy votes!!

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

James Madison: "The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specific objectives. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."

 

[ladyliberal]

One word...CONTROL (over the masses)...

The people in thier eyes are too stupid to have liberty.

The Founders had a term for them...Tyrants.

The founders so far as I know did not generically label the collecting of taxes backed by arm might tyranny. Indeed, each new state collected taxes in this manner, and the US Constitution was written largely so that the federal government could collect taxes to pay down its war debt.

but you leave out that the entire idea was to limit government tax violence and use what little revenue they collected for basic purposes, not charity, entitlements, or to buy votes!!

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

I don't mean to avoid such topics, but I understood you original post to be about the legitimacy of taxation without regard to where the money was spent. I certainly agree that there are some things the government spends money on that they shouldn't. In any event I think the main purpose of taxation was to get money the government could spend on things. If their primary goal was to minimize "tax violence" they could have simply not collected taxes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If their primary goal was to minimize "tax violence" they could have simply not collected taxes.

they were not anarchists, they were libertarians. Do you understand the difference?

 

[g5000]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

I get felt up and nude photos taken of me at the airport when I travel. As a Verizon customer, my phone records have been scoured by the government to see if I have made any calls to Osama bin Laden. If I made an overseas phone call, the government may have been listening in, without a warrant. At the local library, the FBI scours lists of books we have checked out and made the librarians sign NDLs, telling them that if they tell anyone they have been there, they will put those librarians in prison.

If an American citizen is merely suspected of being a "terrorist" (which has a looser and looser definition as time passes), they can be disappeared without a trial. Ever.

A man who told Vice President Cheney he did not like his Iraq policy was arrested by the Secret Service. For speaking to a public official?

All courtesy of George W. Bush.

So what was that you were saying about tyranny?

 

[ladyliberal]

If their primary goal was to minimize "tax violence" they could have simply not collected taxes.

they were not anarchists, they were libertarians. Do you understand the difference?

I do generally understand the difference between the terms, and I agree that the latter describes the Founders better than the former.

I would say that your apparent suggestion that taxes backed by the threat of force are inherently illegitimate seems a more anarchist than libertarian sentiment. The Libertarian Party, for example, calls only for the repeal of the income tax and not the elimination of all taxation (Platform | Libertarian Party). Anarchists in contrast generally argue for a stateless and therefore tax-less society.

 

[uscitizen]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

the conservative govt collected their money exactly the same way and will again.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I would say that your apparent suggestion that taxes backed by the threat of force are inherently illegitimate

I'd say as our founders did that tax collection is inherently violent and coercive, and as such should be mimimized in a peaceful free country. Under capitalism you earn your money in peaceful voluntary relationships.

As a liberal you would have no issues with the majority taking everyone's money by governmental violence. A liberal has no answer to the question of how big is big. That is why a liberal will be inherently brainless.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

the conservative govt collected their money exactly the same way and will again.

actually there is no conservative government since all elections are decided by independents!

 

[Mr Natural]

You mean we don't have to pay our taxes when the conservatives are in power?

Good deal! Sign me up for that!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why does liberal government use guns and jail to "collect" their money while the rest of us must collect our money in peaceful voluntary relationships?? If government is so naturally violent why do we have so much of it, and so little peaceful libertarian government? How did they make liberals think violence was natural?

I get felt up and nude photos taken of me at the airport when I travel. As a Verizon customer, my phone records have been scoured by the government to see if I have made any calls to Osama bin Laden. If I made an overseas phone call, the government may have been listening in, without a warrant. At the local library, the FBI scours lists of books we have checked out and made the librarians sign NDLs, telling them that if they tell anyone they have been there, they will put those librarians in prison.

If an American citizen is merely suspected of being a "terrorist" (which has a looser and looser definition as time passes), they can be disappeared without a trial. Ever.

A man who told Vice President Cheney he did not like his Iraq policy was arrested by the Secret Service. For speaking to a public official?

All courtesy of George W. Bush.

So what was that you were saying about tyranny?

dear under a tyranny they kill you, they don't care or need to protect you from Muslims who would cut your head off while you are still alive. Even BO seems to agree. Sorry

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You mean we don't have to pay our taxes when the conservatives are in power?

Good deal! Sign me up for that!

conservatives are never in power, just in office. Is the concept over your head???

 

[Mr Natural]

You mean we don't have to pay our taxes when the conservatives are in power?

Good deal! Sign me up for that!

conservatives are never in power, just in office. Is the concept over your head???

And when they are in "office", we don't have to pay taxes, right?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You mean we don't have to pay our taxes when the conservatives are in power?

Good deal! Sign me up for that!

conservatives are never in power, just in office. Is the concept over your head???

And when they are in "office", we don't have to pay taxes, right?

dear, in a democracy, when you are in office you are usually not in power! This is becuase there other people in office too, plus there is the press and the people.

 

[Mr Natural]

conservatives are never in power, just in office. Is the concept over your head???

And when they are in "office", we don't have to pay taxes, right?

dear, in a democracy, when you are in office you are usually not in power! This is becuase there other people in office too, plus there is the press and the people.

And here come the excuses.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And when they are in "office", we don't have to pay taxes, right?

dear, in a democracy, when you are in office you are usually not in power! This is becuase there other people in office too, plus there is the press and the people.

And here come the excuses.

how are facts excuses????????????????