Why does anybody think concealed carry is a good idea?

[Jarlaxle]

And now you live somewhere that has no crime at all and no chance of any home invasion?

Yep, or close enough. Not fearing death like you little morons also helps. I don't need loaded guns to help me act like a man.

I do not have loaded guns to help me be a man. I am that, whether I have guns or not. I own guns for a variety of reasons, and one of them is to defend myself against an armed criminal if I need to do so.

Are you going to claim that there are no armed criminals breaking into homes anywhere in the US?

You own guns because you like guns and they make you feel like a man. I own guns because they kill things, their only purpose.

No matter how many times you post the same tried old bullshit, it is still the same old bullshit!

 

[Jarlaxle]

You have nothing of the kind. You have no more arguments left and have resorted to the gun = penis nonsense that so many of your ilk do.

Absolutely classic.

The problem with the penis gun connection is that it ignores the simple fact that many many women carry guns. Probably more women than men.

Not even close. That is also math. And for the rapist, free sex and a free gun. What a deal.

Only if the women refuse to use the gun.

They don't get the chance. That's the problem, especially since nearly all women are raped by someone they know, and probably let in.

And in those cases, it probably won't help. Unless it becomes violent and she is able to get away and get her gun before the rape happens.

Honestly, one reason my wife carries...the last round is for her.

 

[WinterBorn]

The problem with the penis gun connection is that it ignores the simple fact that many many women carry guns. Probably more women than men.

Not even close. That is also math. And for the rapist, free sex and a free gun. What a deal.

Only if the women refuse to use the gun.

They don't get the chance. That's the problem, especially since nearly all women are raped by someone they know, and probably let in.

And in those cases, it probably won't help. Unless it becomes violent and she is able to get away and get her gun before the rape happens.

Honestly, one reason my wife carries...the last round is for her.

If she prefers that to the potential alternative, I respect her choice.

 

[Little-Acorn]

If concealed carry was allowed for all law-abiding citizens, most people still wouldn't bother. But a few would.

And the best news is, someone contemplating committing a crime, would know there were no laws preventing nearly everyone in the crowd from carrying a gun in their pocket or purse. And he would know that most probably weren't carrying... and that a few people probably were. And he wouldn't know which ones they were.

So he would know that if he slugged an old lady and snatched her purse, he could expect a bullet from an unknown direction (or two). And there would be nothing he could do to prevent it, or to know which person in the crowd might fire the shot.

It's enough to make a criminal change jobs, and not commit the crime in the first place.

And that's the point.

If concealed carry is allowed for all law-abiding adults, many crimes won't get committed in the first place. And without a shot being fired. Without anyone having to pull their gun at all.

And that's the biggest benefit of concealed carry.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Untrue. In Florida back in the 1990's there was a massive rash of attacks on foreign visitors.. The car rental companies stripped their cars of identifiers and slapped NRA bumper stickers on them. The rate of crime against foreigners dropped dramatically.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Now you are wrong. My guns will most likely kill no one at all. And I sleep quite well, thanks.

Most likely, but if someone gets shot with one it's probably going to be you or one you love. Ideology doesn't change that.

Ideology is not involved at all. But there are hazards that can be negated, as I have said. I have shown how the hazards to me and mine have been negated. Now as long as no one breaks in and threatens us, we will stay within the 99.9% of gun owners who have no gun deaths at all.

That's what the others with dead spouses and kids said. Carry on. As long as it's mostly you kind dying I can't be bothered.

Obviously not. If they had followed basic safety rules the kids would not have died. If they would not stay in a house with any domestic violence, then those killings would not have happened. If they had stored their guns safely, they would not have had them taken and used by someone who shouldn't.

Simply because there are a lot of idiots in the world does not mean I am one.

You could be the Saint of Safety, and it doesn't change the numbers. The one thing I never forget is should I need to kill myself quickly and easily, it's ten feet away. That's why the numbers are what they are. Guns are very easy, and lethal.

Sooner the better, dude. Please put us out of your misery!

 

[turtledude]

Concealed carry is working real well. Now the shoplifters in Walmart are starting to arm themselves.
Just read of a shop lifter who pulled his concealed carry weapon on the Walmart security guard so the theif could make his getaway. Which he did. Had all the shoppers diving for cover at the sight of the gun.

I know there are good reasons for not shopping at a Walmart. Now there are even more reasons. Evidently Walmarts are some of the most dangerous places to visit you could go to. Everybody is carrying and even the cops will shoot you when you are in a Walmart. Or your 2yo kid will.

hey moron-criminals have always carried concealed weapons.

you want a world where only criminals are armed.

 

[turtledude]

Letting people carry guns in public will obviously lead to more people using guns in public.

Really? Any evidence to back that up? Since the 1990s over 30 states have added "Shal issue" laws concerning ccw permits. Has the violent crime rate gone up in any of those states since then?

Florida has over 2 million permits that it issued since the mid 90s. Has their violent crime rate or murder rate gone up? No. quite the contrary, it has gone down.

Your claims lack valid evidence to support them.

There's no evidence in support of any of this.

There is no evidence citizens carrying concealed weapons results in a rise or decline of violent crime.

Moreover, it's legally and Constitutionally irrelevant – citizens have the right to carry firearms pursuant to the right to lawful self-defense; citizens are not required to 'justify' the exercising of a Constitutional right as a 'prerequisite' to indeed do so.

Untrue. In Florida back in the 1990's there was a massive rash of attacks on foreign visitors.. The car rental companies stripped their cars of identifiers and slapped NRA bumper stickers on them. The rate of crime against foreigners dropped dramatically.

even earlier Orlando was the rape capital of the USA. at that time Florida was a MAY ISSUE state. so the Orlando Chief of Police engaged in a well publicized campaign where women were readily approved for carry permits and the Chief had his firearms instructors open the ranges for women to practice and get instruction on using defensive handguns. guess what it worked. rapes declined substantially after that

 

[ninja007]

Myth: Concealed carry doesn’t prevent crimes
Fact: News reports tell many stories of armed civilians preventing mass murder in public. A few selected at random include:

• A citizen with a gun stopped a knife-wielding man as he began stabbing people in a Salt Lake City store.
• Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law.
• Citizen takes out shooter while police were penned down in Early, Texas.
• Citizen stops apartment shoot-up in Oklahoma City.

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime
Fact: Forty two states, comprising the majority of the American population, are “right-to-carry” states – thirty eight are “shall issue” states where anyone without a criminal record will be issued a permit, and four states require no permit. In 1988 there were only 10 “right-to-carry”. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Eight states are “may issue” states where it is nearly impossible to obtain a CCW permit.

Fact: Gun homicides were 10% higher in states with restrictive CCW laws, according to a study spanning 1980-2009 1

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988. 2

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, 3 and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. 4 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year. 5

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws. 6

Type of Crime % Higher in
Restrictive States
Robbery 105%
Murder 86%
Assault 82%
Violent Crime 81%
Auto Theft 60%
Rape 25%
Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages. 7

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, 8 the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%. 9

Myth: Concealed carry permit holders shoot police
Fact: The Violence Police Center started listing instances of CCW holders shooting police. 10 From May 2007 through November 2009 (2.5 years) they recorded nine police deaths, three in one mass killing by a white supremacist using an AK-47 rifle. Of the nine, five have yet to have a trial or conviction.

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes
State 11 Permits issued Revoked permits % Revoked Violent Crime Rate Change 12
Florida 1,327,321 13 4,129 0.3% -30.5%
Virginia 50,000 14 0 0.0% -21.9%
Arizona 63,000 15 50 0.9% -28.7%
North Carolina 59,597 16 1,274 1.2% -26.4%
Minnesota 46,636 17 12 0.03% 8.0% 18
Michigan 155,000 19 2,178 0.1% 1.4%
Fact: The results for the first 30 states that passed “shall-issue” laws for concealed carry permits are similar.

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime. 20

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are: 21

• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas – “because there haven’t been Wild West shootouts in the streets”. 22

Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Fact: “I’m detecting that I’m eating a lot of crow on this issue … I think that says something, that we’ve gotten to this point in the year and in the third largest city in America there has not been a single charge against anyone that had anything to do with a concealed handgun.” 23

Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator as by a person with a concealed carry permit. 24

Myth: 460 people have been killed by CCW permit holders
Fact: The “study” by gun control group Violence Policy Center covers a six year span, meaning about 76 shootings of all types, including justifiable homicides.

Fact: As of 2001, there are over 11,000,000 CCW holders, meaning the worst case kill rate (justifiable or not) is 0.004% of all CCW holders.

Myth: Concealed guns in bars will cause violence
Fact: In Virginia, in the first year where CCW holders were allowed to, the number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2% The crimes that occurred during the law’s first year were relatively minor. 25

from my link above- for the leftist's who need to see it.

 

[zeke]

hey moron-criminals have always carried concealed weapons.

you want a world where only criminals are armed.

Hey stupid fuck. I want a world where the gun owners are smart enough to know when they need to be armed and when they don't.

But when the world is full of the pussies like you that see a bad guy out to get you at every corner, I doubt that my wish of not having 2yos kill their moms (because Mom had given in to the fear assholes like you spread around and HAD to be armed while shopping) is going to come true.

You on the other hand want to protect the shit products Walmart sells from theft by putting your life and others lives in jeopardy by playing at being a bad ass with a gun. Idiot. You think Walmart would give you a medal if you shot a shoplifter don't cha?

 

[zeke]

• A citizen with a gun stopped a knife-wielding man as he began stabbing people in a Salt Lake City store.

• Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law.

• Citizen takes out shooter while police were penned down in Early, Texas.

• Citizen stops apartment shoot-up in Oklahoma City.

This is the best you got? LMAO. Most of this shit happened a while ago.

Didn't you know that there were over 4 thousand DGUs YESTERDAY alone. And over 4 thousand the day before that and so on and so on. Yes sir you nutters claim 1.6 million DGUs per yer. Do the math as to how many that is a day.

And all you can show is four examples and they aren't even from yesterday. What a joke you nutters are.

 

[Iceweasel]

Little Zekester is still throwing a hissy fit, I see.

 

[zeke]

even earlier Orlando was the rape capital of the USA. at that time Florida was a MAY ISSUE state.

“Since the training program started in 66 and ended in 67, we should
compare 65 (last complete pre-training year) with 68 (first complete
post-training year). Results? Three less rapes. In the whole
period 61-72 the year with the closest rate to 65 is 68. In any
case, the rate in 69 was 25% higher than in 65.”


You fuckers are DESPERSTE to try and prove your points aren't ya? Back to the mid 60ties to make your claim of guns being the answer to all problems.


You turtle dude are a joke.

 

[zeke]

Little Zekester is still throwing a hissy fit, I see.

You just hate it when I show what stupid fucking fools you assholes are. I understand. You are particularly stupid and just can't seem to make an argument about anything. Oh well, you are a weasel.

But don't worry. I work for a living (unlike you) and will be off to work in a short while. Then you'll be safe from further embarrassment.

Till tomorrow.

 

[Iceweasel]

Little Zekester is still throwing a hissy fit, I see.

You just hate it when I show what stupid fucking fools you assholes are. I understand. You are particularly stupid and just can't seem to make an argument about anything. Oh well, you are a weasel.

But don't worry. I work for a living (unlike you) and will be off to work in a short while. Then you'll be safe from further embarrassment.

Till tomorrow.

Don't burn the fries.

 

[hadit]

They have a tradition of it there dumbass, and they had that long before the fucking gun had even been invented.

Your assertion is wrong. You claimed less guns less suicides I just pointed out one of several Countries where that simply is NOT TRUE.

It's not wrong, and we have the numbers to prove it. It is also common fucking sense, which you stupid morons lack.

So prove it already. You haven't yet.

When someone says "I can prove it.... but it's common sense!"..... If they could... they wouldn't have to fall back to "it's common sense".

Basically, he just admitted his failure.

I both proved it, and stated that it was common sense, which you morons lack.

We'll go with the facts. You stick with your emotions.

 

[hadit]

Well, it's definitive. Removing guns does NOT reduce suicides, and allowing properly trained citizens to carry guns does NOT increase violent crime, in fact quite the opposite. Guess that means the anti-gun nuts are left with "guns is icky".

 

[RKMBrown]

• A citizen with a gun stopped a knife-wielding man as he began stabbing people in a Salt Lake City store.

• Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law.

• Citizen takes out shooter while police were penned down in Early, Texas.

• Citizen stops apartment shoot-up in Oklahoma City.

This is the best you got? LMAO. Most of this shit happened a while ago.

Didn't you know that there were over 4 thousand DGUs YESTERDAY alone. And over 4 thousand the day before that and so on and so on. Yes sir you nutters claim 1.6 million DGUs per yer. Do the math as to how many that is a day.

And all you can show is four examples and they aren't even from yesterday. What a joke you nutters are.

Fact: You're a fucking moron. My bet is you are a criminal who does not want to be shot when you get caught.

 

[turtledude]

hey moron-criminals have always carried concealed weapons.

you want a world where only criminals are armed.

Hey stupid fuck. I want a world where the gun owners are smart enough to know when they need to be armed and when they don't.

But when the world is full of the pussies like you that see a bad guy out to get you at every corner, I doubt that my wish of not having 2yos kill their moms (because Mom had given in to the fear assholes like you spread around and HAD to be armed while shopping) is going to come true.

You on the other hand want to protect the shit products Walmart sells from theft by putting your life and others lives in jeopardy by playing at being a bad ass with a gun. Idiot. You think Walmart would give you a medal if you shot a shoplifter don't cha?

oh big tough fairy boy on the internet. you probably would crap your pants if you had to get into a gun fight. I've won gunfights, knife fights and stick fights. Hell, my 16 year old kid would kick your silly ass in a new for second.

I crap stuff smarter than you fairy boy

 

[turtledude]

• A citizen with a gun stopped a knife-wielding man as he began stabbing people in a Salt Lake City store.

• Two men retrieved firearms from their cars and stopped a mass murder at the Appalachian School of Law.

• Citizen takes out shooter while police were penned down in Early, Texas.

• Citizen stops apartment shoot-up in Oklahoma City.

This is the best you got? LMAO. Most of this shit happened a while ago.

Didn't you know that there were over 4 thousand DGUs YESTERDAY alone. And over 4 thousand the day before that and so on and so on. Yes sir you nutters claim 1.6 million DGUs per yer. Do the math as to how many that is a day.

And all you can show is four examples and they aren't even from yesterday. What a joke you nutters are.

Fact: You're a fucking moron. My bet is you are a criminal who does not want to be shot when you get caught.

he's probably a mope. you are probably right