Why do you want more government in your life?

[drsmith1072]

If we're speaking on a partisanship level, it's going to depend on what you think that the government should be involved in. There is a great deal of...hypocrisy for lack of better terms on the whole "government in my life". One side says, " I want government to stay out of my wallet, and my gun safe."....BUT, "Gays shouldn't be allowed to visit each other in the hospital....get married....more drivel..." "Abortions and other issues pertaining to someone else's body, should be addressed by our legislature"AND...from a recent extreme-right coworker of mine I heard verbatim: "By killing muslim children, we are doing them a favor." And on the extreme left, you have the absolute opposite.

Point being...if you want government to stay out of your life, then this should pertain to ALL aspects of your life. If you want people to listen to you and take you seriously, then stop picking and choosing how and when the government stays out of your affairs.

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

 

[mskafka]

If we're speaking on a partisanship level, it's going to depend on what you think that the government should be involved in. There is a great deal of...hypocrisy for lack of better terms on the whole "government in my life". One side says, " I want government to stay out of my wallet, and my gun safe."....BUT, "Gays shouldn't be allowed to visit each other in the hospital....get married....more drivel..." "Abortions and other issues pertaining to someone else's body, should be addressed by our legislature"AND...from a recent extreme-right coworker of mine I heard verbatim: "By killing muslim children, we are doing them a favor." And on the extreme left, you have the absolute opposite.

Point being...if you want government to stay out of your life, then this should pertain to ALL aspects of your life. If you want people to listen to you and take you seriously, then stop picking and choosing how and when the government stays out of your affairs.

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

It really gets old hearing the same crap, day in and day out. "I want to pay fewer taxes...but by golly, you'd better stay away from my Medicare," And if you're pro-life, I believe that one should be PRO-LIFE...not just where it aligns with your idea of morality.

 

[Some Guy]

WOW the government has regulated food, water, healthcare, and energy for years so it still amazes how now all of a sudden that it's all wrong to do so. LOL

Exactly when are you guys going to get a REAL issue and start whining about that??

Just like anything, there's comes a point when some becomes too much. You'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want the government regulating food safety and other things of like, but it becomes absurd when the policies attempt to control how a business works. Cap and trade is nothing more than an excuse to tax more traditional means of energy in effort to price them out of the market. Using that as just an example, it's one thing to make sure they're not overtly polluting the environment, but trying to tax an industry out of business is something entirely different.

so much for getting something REAL.

Still waiting on the proof. I keep getting a lot of opinions but that's about all that has been presented.

Personally I don't see how cap and trade accomplishes what you claim it will accomplish let alone how it "taxes" them to price them out of the market. care to explain?

Tax the shit out of something and the company being taxed for producing it passes it on the consumer. See examples like cigarettes and alcohol. The difference there is that many people can and do live without those products.

And i shouldn't necessarily say that Obama would want to tax an industry out of business, but rather he notices that people need energy so they can't avoid the tax so it's easy money for the government.

 

[mskafka]

Just like anything, there's comes a point when some becomes too much. You'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want the government regulating food safety and other things of like, but it becomes absurd when the policies attempt to control how a business works. Cap and trade is nothing more than an excuse to tax more traditional means of energy in effort to price them out of the market. Using that as just an example, it's one thing to make sure they're not overtly polluting the environment, but trying to tax an industry out of business is something entirely different.

so much for getting something REAL.

Still waiting on the proof. I keep getting a lot of opinions but that's about all that has been presented.

Personally I don't see how cap and trade accomplishes what you claim it will accomplish let alone how it "taxes" them to price them out of the market. care to explain?

Tax the shit out of something and the company being taxed for producing it passes it on the consumer. See examples like cigarettes and alcohol. The difference there is that many people can and do live without those products.

And i shouldn't necessarily say that Obama would want to tax an industry out of business, but rather he notices that people need energy so they can't avoid the tax so it's easy money for the government.

I disagree with this, partially. This is a much more complex issue, if you're speaking specifically of energy. Now I've read of price-gouging within the energy companies themselves. We, as the consumers, are lead to believe that we're dealing with different corporations and the states, regions, etc...that are being served. But many of these corporations link together to give us the illusion that we are getting better deals on energy than the next guy is providing. However, this isn't always true.

 

[drsmith1072]

Just like anything, there's comes a point when some becomes too much. You'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want the government regulating food safety and other things of like, but it becomes absurd when the policies attempt to control how a business works. Cap and trade is nothing more than an excuse to tax more traditional means of energy in effort to price them out of the market. Using that as just an example, it's one thing to make sure they're not overtly polluting the environment, but trying to tax an industry out of business is something entirely different.

so much for getting something REAL.

Still waiting on the proof. I keep getting a lot of opinions but that's about all that has been presented.

Personally I don't see how cap and trade accomplishes what you claim it will accomplish let alone how it "taxes" them to price them out of the market. care to explain?

Tax the shit out of something and the company being taxed for producing it passes it on the consumer. See examples like cigarettes and alcohol. The difference there is that many people can and do live without those products.

And i shouldn't necessarily say that Obama would want to tax an industry out of business, but rather he notices that people need energy so they can't avoid the tax so it's easy money for the government.

So still no proof??

cap and trade is where they put a cap on emmissions and the trade part comes in where you can buy from other sources to cover you if you cross over that cap. So where does "tax the shit out something" come into the debate??

 

[Some Guy]

so much for getting something REAL.

Still waiting on the proof. I keep getting a lot of opinions but that's about all that has been presented.

Personally I don't see how cap and trade accomplishes what you claim it will accomplish let alone how it "taxes" them to price them out of the market. care to explain?

Tax the shit out of something and the company being taxed for producing it passes it on the consumer. See examples like cigarettes and alcohol. The difference there is that many people can and do live without those products.

And i shouldn't necessarily say that Obama would want to tax an industry out of business, but rather he notices that people need energy so they can't avoid the tax so it's easy money for the government.

I disagree with this, partially. This is a much more complex issue, if you're speaking specifically of energy. Now I've read of price-gouging within the energy companies themselves. We, as the consumers, are lead to believe that we're dealing with different corporations and the states, regions, etc...that are being served. But many of these corporations link together to give us the illusion that we are getting better deals on energy than the next guy is providing. However, this isn't always true.

So, they're colluding. If it's so clean cut then they can be criminally charged.

 

[FA_Q2]

If we're speaking on a partisanship level, it's going to depend on what you think that the government should be involved in. There is a great deal of...hypocrisy for lack of better terms on the whole "government in my life". One side says, " I want government to stay out of my wallet, and my gun safe."....BUT, "Gays shouldn't be allowed to visit each other in the hospital....get married....more drivel..." "Abortions and other issues pertaining to someone else's body, should be addressed by our legislature"AND...from a recent extreme-right coworker of mine I heard verbatim: "By killing muslim children, we are doing them a favor." And on the extreme left, you have the absolute opposite.

Point being...if you want government to stay out of your life, then this should pertain to ALL aspects of your life. If you want people to listen to you and take you seriously, then stop picking and choosing how and when the government stays out of your affairs.

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

And yet that applies to BOTH parties. The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite. They want the government out of your moral lives but as soon as it comes to the rest of it they want government to come in and save the world.

I used to call myself center right until I realized that was all wrong. I am not in the center at all as the crap in the center is a fusion of all the WORST ideas on both sides (more government in ALL aspects of your life). I am fiscally and regulatory right and social left. Government needs to get out of the religious world, get off the anti gay train and get the hell out of my life in general but that also goes for the other side of the isle. I do not need the government to decide what I am going to have for lunch, mandate I purchase healthcare or regulate the country into oblivion.

When making the argument for less government don't just focus on the hypocrisy of the right, the left has just as much hypocrisy as well.

 

[mskafka]

If we're speaking on a partisanship level, it's going to depend on what you think that the government should be involved in. There is a great deal of...hypocrisy for lack of better terms on the whole "government in my life". One side says, " I want government to stay out of my wallet, and my gun safe."....BUT, "Gays shouldn't be allowed to visit each other in the hospital....get married....more drivel..." "Abortions and other issues pertaining to someone else's body, should be addressed by our legislature"AND...from a recent extreme-right coworker of mine I heard verbatim: "By killing muslim children, we are doing them a favor." And on the extreme left, you have the absolute opposite.

Point being...if you want government to stay out of your life, then this should pertain to ALL aspects of your life. If you want people to listen to you and take you seriously, then stop picking and choosing how and when the government stays out of your affairs.

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

And yet that applies to BOTH parties. The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite. They want the government out of your moral lives but as soon as it comes to the rest of it they want government to come in and save the world.

I used to call myself center right until I realized that was all wrong. I am not in the center at all as the crap in the center is a fusion of all the WORST ideas on both sides (more government in ALL aspects of your life). I am fiscally and regulatory right and social left. Government needs to get out of the religious world, get off the anti gay train and get the hell out of my life in general but that also goes for the other side of the isle. I do not need the government to decide what I am going to have for lunch, mandate I purchase healthcare or regulate the country into oblivion.

When making the argument for less government don't just focus on the hypocrisy of the right, the left has just as much hypocrisy as well.

I did focus on both. If you'd read my post thoroughly, you would have seen that. The beginning of the thread had that same old argument that I hear everyday. Anti-tax, and anti-government. That same parroting of how everyone who works for the government is a moron, and anyone who believes otherwise, is looking for a handout. Indeed the SEC hasn't helped the government reputation in the last few years...(Enron, Madoff, etc...). On security (9/11, McVeigh, Underwear guy) But that does not mean that privatizing EVERYTHING, is the answer either. Just one example of many: Have you every been transported by a private ambulance? One that isn't county or city-owned? Not all, but many are quite frightening (cleanliness, employee criminal history, etc...). And again, that's one example. But I can tell you after having worked for both, background checks are much more extensive in a local gov.-owned service than a privately-owned service. I'm am almost dead center; so don't label me as partisan...or out to smear the right. Lord knows that there is corruption in many of our current politicians.

 

[Avatar4321]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

Why do you want more government in your life?


As usual the religious voice askes the wrong question. A thinking man wants less outside influence in his life... Get rid of the influence peddling lobbiests and we will be far better off. If that is accomplished "our government" will be responsive to OUR interests. The problem of big or small is irelevant if none of its activity is truly in our best interest.

If I'm asking the wrong question, which of course is only your opinion, I've certainly gotten a lot of discussion going on the topic. Which is the point of a message board. So I think I've succeeded in my job.

 

[HUGGY]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

Why do you want more government in your life?


As usual the religious voice askes the wrong question. A thinking man wants less outside influence in his life... Get rid of the influence peddling lobbiests and we will be far better off. If that is accomplished "our government" will be responsive to OUR interests. The problem of big or small is irelevant if none of its activity is truly in our best interest.

If I'm asking the wrong question, which of course is only your opinion, I've certainly gotten a lot of discussion going on the topic. Which is the point of a message board. So I think I've succeeded in my job.

I don't dissagree that open discussion is important. It is the prime first action of any meaningful change in human social change. My frustration lies in the answers most come up with. My opinion is of course the correct one.

It drives me crazy when something important is undisputably obvious and it is obscured by crap logic and hack bias.

It is simple. Most of our representatives get elected on honest intentions. Most get corrupted before they can effect good works. The infection is the problem not the election.

The keys to the kingdom have all been lost. It is time to change the locks. There is a small and reasonable place for corporate representatives, union representatives and other groups but at this time they all need to be kicked out.

 

[oreo]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

The only thing the Federal government has given me-was a BILL.--

Now--I know that liberals on this board--feel like they need the federal government to wipe their nose every time they get a runny nose--but I am kind of sick and tired of paying for it---

 

[oreo]

I want to know how the government will be more involved in my life?

You're kidding right? They just took over your health care. "Forcing you to pay for you own health care--the if you don't--with all the powers of the IRS--then can and will get into your checking/savings accounts--withhold income tax refunds--lein and seize your personal property for payment. Then when you pay for all of this and are older--ration your health care to pain pills versus your doctors recommendation for surgery.

Now--they're onto energy--which is something they have always wanted in their pockets--which will along with your health care--control your every single move--

Right now the government can "kill" you with health care--and if that doesn't work they can freeze you to death--

 

[FA_Q2]

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

And yet that applies to BOTH parties. The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite. They want the government out of your moral lives but as soon as it comes to the rest of it they want government to come in and save the world.

I used to call myself center right until I realized that was all wrong. I am not in the center at all as the crap in the center is a fusion of all the WORST ideas on both sides (more government in ALL aspects of your life). I am fiscally and regulatory right and social left. Government needs to get out of the religious world, get off the anti gay train and get the hell out of my life in general but that also goes for the other side of the isle. I do not need the government to decide what I am going to have for lunch, mandate I purchase healthcare or regulate the country into oblivion.

When making the argument for less government don't just focus on the hypocrisy of the right, the left has just as much hypocrisy as well.

I did focus on both. If you'd read my post thoroughly, you would have seen that. The beginning of the thread had that same old argument that I hear everyday. Anti-tax, and anti-government. That same parroting of how everyone who works for the government is a moron, and anyone who believes otherwise, is looking for a handout. Indeed the SEC hasn't helped the government reputation in the last few years...(Enron, Madoff, etc...). On security (9/11, McVeigh, Underwear guy) But that does not mean that privatizing EVERYTHING, is the answer either. Just one example of many: Have you every been transported by a private ambulance? One that isn't county or city-owned? Not all, but many are quite frightening (cleanliness, employee criminal history, etc...). And again, that's one example. But I can tell you after having worked for both, background checks are much more extensive in a local gov.-owned service than a privately-owned service. I'm am almost dead center; so don't label me as partisan...or out to smear the right. Lord knows that there is corruption in many of our current politicians.

The comment was not directed at you mska but drsmith. His 'similar argument,' and many of the other liberals here on this board have pushed the same rhetoric, was directly against the right. I see it all the time stated that it is the right that wants more government intrusion when that simply is not true. The left wants the same intrusions in different places.

 

[Vanquish]

WOW the government has regulated food, water, healthcare, and energy for years so it still amazes how now all of a sudden that it's all wrong to do so. LOL

Exactly when are you guys going to get a REAL issue and start whining about that??

Just like anything, there's comes a point when some becomes too much. You'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want the government regulating food safety and other things of like, but it becomes absurd when the policies attempt to control how a business works. Cap and trade is nothing more than an excuse to tax more traditional means of energy in effort to price them out of the market. Using that as just an example, it's one thing to make sure they're not overtly polluting the environment, but trying to tax an industry out of business is something entirely different.

Pardon me for being a few pages behind, but I find this post interesting.

I find it interesting because it's pretty reasonable and makes a decent point...one that I dont think either side would disagree with. But it's remarkable because on these boards and in the real world it's NOT what you hear. Instead you hear "Obama cant do that!" and "That's unconstitutional!"

So when you say, "yes it's nothing new, we're simply talking a matter of degrees here" that's at odds with the whole other group of conservatives who feel they have to deny certain things ever happened to get their way.

 

[drsmith1072]

If we're speaking on a partisanship level, it's going to depend on what you think that the government should be involved in. There is a great deal of...hypocrisy for lack of better terms on the whole "government in my life". One side says, " I want government to stay out of my wallet, and my gun safe."....BUT, "Gays shouldn't be allowed to visit each other in the hospital....get married....more drivel..." "Abortions and other issues pertaining to someone else's body, should be addressed by our legislature"AND...from a recent extreme-right coworker of mine I heard verbatim: "By killing muslim children, we are doing them a favor." And on the extreme left, you have the absolute opposite.

Point being...if you want government to stay out of your life, then this should pertain to ALL aspects of your life. If you want people to listen to you and take you seriously, then stop picking and choosing how and when the government stays out of your affairs.

Thanked you for that comment. I made a similar argument earlier in this thread.

And yet that applies to BOTH parties. The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite. They want the government out of your moral lives but as soon as it comes to the rest of it they want government to come in and save the world.

I used to call myself center right until I realized that was all wrong. I am not in the center at all as the crap in the center is a fusion of all the WORST ideas on both sides (more government in ALL aspects of your life). I am fiscally and regulatory right and social left. Government needs to get out of the religious world, get off the anti gay train and get the hell out of my life in general but that also goes for the other side of the isle. I do not need the government to decide what I am going to have for lunch, mandate I purchase healthcare or regulate the country into oblivion.

When making the argument for less government don't just focus on the hypocrisy of the right, the left has just as much hypocrisy as well.

LOL How can righties who try to claim that lefties WANT a nanny state even think about claiming that this applies to both parties??

Righties are the ones arguing against more government interference and involvement even as they seek and demand government interference and involvement.

I do think it's hilarious that you rail against the left with a bunch of fictitious nonsense even as you hypocritically tell me not to focus only on one side. LOL

It would be one thing if I was railing against big government as I am demanding more government but the fact remains that I am NOT. So, no hypocrisy on my part but thanks for the spin.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite.

Bullshit. The left's always pushing some morality on us.. whether it be green initiatives under the notion of "doing the right thing and conserve" or bans on smoking (smoking's wrong) or ban salt (it's bad for you) or transfats (bad for you) or it's illegal to say this (cause it's wrong or mean or whatever)...

Get over yourself, the left is always pushing it's convoluted morality on the rest of us.

 

[Newby]

The right wants the government out of your life until it come to morality, then they want laws to enforce their morality. The left is the exact opposite.

Bullshit. The left's always pushing some morality on us.. whether it be green initiatives under the notion of "doing the right thing and conserve" or bans on smoking (smoking's wrong) or ban salt (it's bad for you) or transfats (bad for you) or it's illegal to say this (cause it's wrong or mean or whatever)...

Get over yourself, the left is always pushing it's convoluted morality on the rest of us.

Same thing with all of the entitlement programs. It's the 'right thing to do' to give people money, food, etc... paid for by tax dollars whenever they can't take care of themselves. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly is based in morality.

 

[Some Guy]

So when you say, "yes it's nothing new, we're simply talking a matter of degrees here" that's at odds with the whole other group of conservatives who feel they have to deny certain things ever happened to get their way.

Maybe you're confusing me with a conservative? I pretty much agree with everything you said.

 

[Vanquish]

Well then. 'spose I'm confused. Wouldn't be the first time

 

[drsmith1072]

I just want to know why? Why don't you want more freedom to choose what you want to do?

Do you really think government will do everything better than you would?

I just don't get it.

The only thing the Federal government has given me-was a BILL.--

Now--I know that liberals on this board--feel like they need the federal government to wipe their nose every time they get a runny nose--but I am kind of sick and tired of paying for it---

LOL that's funny consdiering the fact that YOU seem to be the one in need of a tissue based on your incessant whining. LOL