Why Do the Rich Kids Do Better?

[westwall]

I never claimed it was the best. Clearly it is not. YOU want to say that is all teachers. But that's not all it is. Believe that.

No one has said it is all teachers. NO ONE. That is you being hyperbolic. But you tell us why the US consistently scores near the bottom compared to the other first world nations.

Why is that?

I am not trying to pick a fight with you, I want your honest opinion on why our public schools are so bad.

 

[SweetSue92]

No one has said it is all teachers. NO ONE. That is you being hyperbolic. But you tell us why the US consistently scores near the bottom compared to the other first world nations.

Why is that?

I am not trying to pick a fight with you, I want your honest opinion on why our public schools are so bad.

Many, many reasons.

I'll post what you want me to post first: we have failing schools. We have an educational system too invested in standardized tests as young as third grade. We have some teachers who are horrid. Horrid teachers are terrible for learning, one of the key factors.

But then

We have a stupid school calendar focused on allowing working parents to work rather than on what's best for kids.

We are failing as a society, and yet expect children to come to school "ready to learn" (this one cannot be overstated).

We expect schools to do everything now, so they operate as day-orphanages rather than as academic institutions. For instance, just consider the modern idea that "behavior is communication". So a teacher has 150 kids a day at secondary, a kid is messing around trying to get friends to laugh--normal teenage stuff--and teacher is told they must investigate behavior bc kid is displaying an "unmet need".

This is unsustainable, of course. No teacher can "investigate the unmet needs" of 150 kids they see every day. And grade their papers. And contact parents. And, and, and.

How much more you want?

This doesn't even factor in the, say, shooter trainings we just went through again last week, wherein I have to explain to five year olds how to escape the building should a bad person with a gun come in.

 

[Likkmee]

Many people make assumptions about the potential and ability of students without understanding context. If you look at the results from wealthy districts vs more economically challenged areas, the difference is clear but not necessarily the causes. Having had extensive experience with students from wealthy suburbs and inner city schools I can tell you that real differences are on the individual level, not as generalized groups. Some of the key influences include:

• parental involvement
• time
• living conditions
• availability of extra help

The families of wealthier students can, and very often do, provide tutoring outside of school to help their children get ahead. As well they should. However, if the family of a student from a different background can't afford to do the same, it is NOT a reflection of the capacity of that student.

Few students get tutoring despite evidence it can remedy learning loss

Schools have federal money to pay for it. Yet only about 1 in 10 students is actually receiving high-quality tutoring.

www.chalkbeat.org

Easier access to Prozac and fully vaccinated

 

[SweetSue92]

You leave out the most important component: IQ.

Parent with money tend to have higher IQ's because people with higher IQ's tend to have more money. Through environment or heretidy, IQ is passed on, and their children are more successful.

Not discounting the other factors, but without at least an average IQ, all the Headstart, free school lunches, and after school programs won't equalize low-IQ students.

Yep.

And honestly average IQ students can do quite well. But of course we have poured a lot of our resources in trying to make children with IQs of, say, 80 look like children with IQs of 110.

We fight a lot of battles like that. At best it's ineffective and a misuse of resources.

 

[Mac-7]

I never claimed it was the best. Clearly it is not. YOU want to say that is all teachers. But that's not all it is. Believe that.

Its all teachers who resist reform

 

[Markle]

More to the point….what actual data is there?

There are 4,007,908 teachers in the US.

Yet the entire profession is painted as horrible based on a few videos, testimonials etc of the bad ones.

WRONG! The entire profession is not painted as horrible. The LEADERSHIP of teachers has caused the disaster we see today.

National Education Association General Counsel Bob Chanin stated in July 2009.

Chanin: "It is not because we care about children. And it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child. NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues...."



Pretty much says it all.

 

[Woodznutz]

I would have done much better in school if my parents had made it known that they expected me to. Neither of my parents ever looked at my report card or inquired about my schooling. I had little motivation to do well in school, although I felt a certain duty to do so.

 

[Markle]

Since schools are funded by property taxes, the answer is obvious. Their schools are better funded.

Actually, many, if not most, of the worst schools are the ones with the highest spending per student.

Washington, D.C., Public Schools Spend $30K Per Student; 23% of 8th Graders Proficient in Reading​

Terry Jeffrey | Sep 16, 2020

Washington, D.C., Public Schools Spend $30K Per Student; 23% of 8th Graders Proficient in Reading

townhall.com

 

[Woodznutz]

”Our Diversity Is Our Strength”​

Biggest lie ever told (at least near the top).

 

[Markle]

The unions have no say. Parents have a right to sign a form saying their child cannot be photographed or videotaped.

It's unreal to me that my fellow conservatives understand that in a system of compulsory schooling, children should ALSO be involuntary recorded.

Ew. Really. Ew.

No reason to video the kids. Video the TEACHERS. For that, teacher's unions would go NUTS! Teacher's unions prevent bad teachers from being fired.

New York City and other systems have a "rubber room or rooms". That is where teachers go when suspended since the union prevents them from being fired. So long as they show up, and stay for their usual work day, they get paid in full. They can read, sleep, or do whatever, they just have to show up. How is that NOT rewarding bad behavior?

 

[SweetSue92]

No reason to video the kids. Video the TEACHERS. For that, teacher's unions would go NUTS! Teacher's unions prevent bad teachers from being fired.

New York City and other systems have a "rubber room or rooms". That is where teachers go when suspended since the union prevents them from being fired. So long as they show up, and stay for their usual work day, they get paid in full. They can read, sleep, or do whatever, they just have to show up. How is that NOT rewarding bad behavior?

Explain to me how you do that in a standard classroom--esp elementary--while guaranteeing you're not showing children with privacy paperwork on file.

 

[leftwinger]

Many, many reasons.

I'll post what you want me to post first: we have failing schools. We have an educational system too invested in standardized tests as young as third grade. We have some teachers who are horrid. Horrid teachers are terrible for learning, one of the key factors.

But then

We have a stupid school calendar focused on allowing working parents to work rather than on what's best for kids.

We are failing as a society, and yet expect children to come to school "ready to learn" (this one cannot be overstated).

We expect schools to do everything now, so they operate as day-orphanages rather than as academic institutions. For instance, just consider the modern idea that "behavior is communication". So a teacher has 150 kids a day at secondary, a kid is messing around trying to get friends to laugh--normal teenage stuff--and teacher is told they must investigate behavior bc kid is displaying an "unmet need".

This is unsustainable, of course. No teacher can "investigate the unmet needs" of 150 kids they see every day. And grade their papers. And contact parents. And, and, and.

How much more you want?

This doesn't even factor in the, say, shooter trainings we just went through again last week, wherein I have to explain to five year olds how to escape the building should a bad person with a gun come in.

These sorts of "problems" dont exist in Korea or Singapore. But Singaporeans have common sense. Cost effective GOVT. America has an enemy pulling its strings

 

[Woodznutz]

These sorts of "problems" dont exist in Korea or Singapore. But Singaporeans have common sense. Cost effective GOVT. America has an enemy pulling its strings

True. If America is God's "blessed land" we should have a pretty good idea who that enemy is.

 

[Coyote]

It is difficult to compare US schools with other schools because we mainstream special needs kids and most other countries don't. Public schools also have to take all students and deal with huge class sizes which make teaching difficult. Instead of demonizing teachers, why is no one addressing the real problems, such this or what SeetSue brought up?

 

[westwall]

It is difficult to compare US schools with other schools because we mainstream special needs kids and most other countries don't. Public also have to take all students and deal with huge class sizes which make teaching difficult. Instead of demonizing teachers, why is no one addressing the real problems, such this or what SeetSue brought up?

Yes. And so far NO ONE is trying to do anything about that.

Why?

 

[Coyote]

Yes. And so far NO ONE is trying to do anything about that.

Why?

Good question, that is why I asked. No one seems to be listening to the teachers.

 

[westwall]

Good question, that is why I asked. No one seems to be listening to the teachers.

The Federal Dept. Of Education seems to be responsible for most of the failures.

Maybe it should be eliminated. It seems to be doing far more harm than good.

 

[Circe]

Many people make assumptions about the potential and ability of students without understanding context. If you look at the results from wealthy districts vs more economically challenged areas, the difference is clear but not necessarily the causes. Having had extensive experience with students from wealthy suburbs and inner city schools I can tell you that real differences are on the individual level, not as generalized groups. Some of the key influences include:

• parental involvement
• time
• living conditions
• availability of extra help

The families of wealthier students can, and very often do, provide tutoring outside of school to help their children get ahead. As well they should. However, if the family of a student from a different background can't afford to do the same, it is NOT a reflection of the capacity of that student.

Naaaaaaah, it's largely genetic. Or the parents would be doing better to start with.

See Human Diversity by Charles Murray; but of course you won't.

 

[Coyote]

The Federal Dept. Of Education seems to be responsible for most of the failures.

Maybe it should be eliminated. It seems to be doing far more harm than good.

I doubt that. They aren't the ones responsible for huge class sizes or mainstreaming or teacher vacancies.

 

[westwall]

I doubt that. They aren't the ones responsible for huge class sizes or mainstreaming or teacher vacancies.

It is policies enacted by them, and forced on local districts that has destroyed the public schools.

Before they existed the US enjoyed one of the best public school systems in the world.

Since their inception we have witnessed a constant decline.

Sure seems like cause and effect to me.