Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

This/you are just ridiculous really. You think there was a beginning of time? That's how small you think. Sure there was a beginning of time for our universe, but make no mistake that time existed long before our universe got started. We just have no way of measuring it. Sucks to suck. But just because you suck doesn't mean time didn't exist just because your brain can't wrap your brain around it.

Amazing that you think before our universe a god existed but time did not. You can accept that god is eternal but not time. Sorry boss but there is no need for an eternal god. We have eternal time and space. Deal with it.

Well... no.... sorry... IF you study Einstein's principles you will find that time is relative. There are places in our universe where circumstances are such that the dimension of time passes slower or faster than here on Earth. For instance, at the event horizon of a black hole, time slows down as matter approaches the speed of light. This is basic physics.

The foremost evidence the universe had a beginning is that the universe is in motion. Newton's Laws of Motion state that things in motion are set into motion by something. Since our universe is in motion it had to be set into motion by some event. It's impossible for it to have eternally been in motion. Time is also understood from a physics perspective as "space-time" ...it is literally the measure of space expanding. There was no "time" before the universe because there was no expanding universe and no space for time to exist as a dimension.

You believe in something nonsensical. Time cannot exist without a universe in which it is a dimension. You can believe otherwise, but it's a flying spaghetti monster. You have no evidence or basis for such a belief and it's certainly nothing that is supported by physics.

 

[emilynghiem]

He says its because humans are hardwired to believe even though its obvious that the instinct to survive is what is hard wired and people have expressed a belief in gods because if they didn't they, and sometimes even their entire family, were executed.

But in even more instances, they were executed FOR their beliefs in God or the wrong God.

For as long as we have evidence of human civilization, we have evidence of humans practicing spiritual beliefs. This goes back tens of thousands of years before any organized religion.

Sigmund Freud, the most noted psychiatrist in history, made the observation about the human mind long ago. We are inherently tied to a belief in something greater than self. He maintained that our complex minds are such that if God did not exist we would have to create him. We would have destroyed ourselves otherwise. I believe humans would have never formed civilizations. It is directly the result of our inherent awareness of something greater than self which enabled us to join together to form civilizations.

Now, does that in of itself prove spiritual existence? No, but it does prove there is something vitally essential to the belief in something spiritual. This simply can't be dismissed as figment of imagination or mental delusions. There is clearly something more fundamental to it than that. If not, the species would have simply discarded the "superstition" many thousands of years ago and there would have probably never been organized religions.... and I would argue, OR civilizations.

Dear Boss:
Don't be onesided -- remember there are people DYING for the LACK of knowledge such as spiritual healing that could save lives. So REJECTING spiritual beliefs causes death and suffering also that could have been prevented and healed.

People DIE for their spiritual beliefs in peace.
The ones who won't join the Terrorists get killed and so do their families.

Does that mean we should ban such people from believing in nonviolence?
Which side are you going to ban if you are blaming beliefs?

You can't just blame religions when it's people fighting for POWER regardless what the conflict is between GROUPS and TRIBES competing.

You want to blame race? Well, both sides of any issue have their own identity to defend.

The real issue is not resolving conflicts without oppression, bullying abuse and violence.

That's independent of spiritual or political beliefs.
If people want to dominate and control,
DIVIDE and CONQUER then it's that spirit of unfair competition and pack mentality/pecking order
that is behind it.

I think you are a fair person.

If you are going to make a generalization about what is the problem,
make sure it explains ALL cases, BOTH sides of conflicts, and not just the one for your convenience.

You of all people on here are capable of that.
So I expect more of you than the average person who is pushing their emotional bias.

You can rise above it, so I challenge you even more than what you are already doing.
More power to you, Boss

Respectfully yours,
Emily

 

[emilynghiem]

This/you are just ridiculous really. You think there was a beginning of time? That's how small you think. Sure there was a beginning of time for our universe, but make no mistake that time existed long before our universe got started. We just have no way of measuring it. Sucks to suck. But just because you suck doesn't mean time didn't exist just because your brain can't wrap your brain around it.

Amazing that you think before our universe a god existed but time did not. You can accept that god is eternal but not time. Sorry boss but there is no need for an eternal god. We have eternal time and space. Deal with it.

Well... no.... sorry... IF you study Einstein's principles you will find that time is relative. There are places in our universe where circumstances are such that the dimension of time passes slower or faster than here on Earth. For instance, at the event horizon of a black hole, time slows down as matter approaches the speed of light. This is basic physics.

The foremost evidence the universe had a beginning is that the universe is in motion. Newton's Laws of Motion state that things in motion are set into motion by something. Since our universe is in motion it had to be set into motion by some event. It's impossible for it to have eternally been in motion. Time is also understood from a physics perspective as "space-time" ...it is literally the measure of space expanding. There was no "time" before the universe because there was no expanding universe and no space for time to exist as a dimension.

You believe in something nonsensical. Time cannot exist without a universe in which it is a dimension. You can believe otherwise, but it's a flying spaghetti monster. You have no evidence or basis for such a belief and it's certainly nothing that is supported by physics.

Dear Boss and sealybobo
both Time and God exist by definition. Sure, arguments can be made of their existence independent of that, but for all practical purposes, we are concerned with what we can define that we can use. So why not agree to stick to that, regardless what we believe or can or cannot prove outside the definitions we are working with?

Isn't the point to agree what we are talking about, and to use terms
that we agree are accurate and work for us.

However you want to define and frame these things
isn't the point for our mutual convenience so we can communicate like concepts and principles.

Wouldn't it make more sense to ALIGN what meanings and constructs we want to convey or use,
and not argue over if we can prove or disprove the existence or nonexistence of this or that.

The point is to be objective enough where we are "okay" with using subjective terms
that we AGREE are good enough to communicate and establish common understanding.

Can we stick to what is practical here?
Thank you both, I trust you can do this or you wouldn't be pushing so hard if it wasn't getting anywhere.
Of course, we are heading toward working out agreements on this.

So I appreciate your convictions and efforts, which will pay off proportionately to the work it takes to get there.
Thanks for that.

Yours truly,
with love and respect,
Emily

 

[sealybobo]

This/you are just ridiculous really. You think there was a beginning of time? That's how small you think. Sure there was a beginning of time for our universe, but make no mistake that time existed long before our universe got started. We just have no way of measuring it. Sucks to suck. But just because you suck doesn't mean time didn't exist just because your brain can't wrap your brain around it.

Amazing that you think before our universe a god existed but time did not. You can accept that god is eternal but not time. Sorry boss but there is no need for an eternal god. We have eternal time and space. Deal with it.

Well... no.... sorry... IF you study Einstein's principles you will find that time is relative. There are places in our universe where circumstances are such that the dimension of time passes slower or faster than here on Earth. For instance, at the event horizon of a black hole, time slows down as matter approaches the speed of light. This is basic physics.

The foremost evidence the universe had a beginning is that the universe is in motion. Newton's Laws of Motion state that things in motion are set into motion by something. Since our universe is in motion it had to be set into motion by some event. It's impossible for it to have eternally been in motion. Time is also understood from a physics perspective as "space-time" ...it is literally the measure of space expanding. There was no "time" before the universe because there was no expanding universe and no space for time to exist as a dimension.

You believe in something nonsensical. Time cannot exist without a universe in which it is a dimension. You can believe otherwise, but it's a flying spaghetti monster. You have no evidence or basis for such a belief and it's certainly nothing that is supported by physics.

I don't care if THE UNIVERSE you know and see now had a beginning and end. That's not what I said. Time existed before the big bang and it will continue after our universe dies out. You keep confusing the time and universe you exist in with general time and space. Look 1 foot into space in front of your face. That space will exist in 20 billion years. There may not be a universe or an earth or air in that spot but it will exist and time will keep ticking after this universe swallows itself.

If not, what will god do?

And what is beyond this universe? Can't god travel beyond our tiny universe?

 

[Boss]

He says its because humans are hardwired to believe even though its obvious that the instinct to survive is what is hard wired and people have expressed a belief in gods because if they didn't they, and sometimes even their entire family, were executed.

But in even more instances, they were executed FOR their beliefs in God or the wrong God.

For as long as we have evidence of human civilization, we have evidence of humans practicing spiritual beliefs. This goes back tens of thousands of years before any organized religion.

Sigmund Freud, the most noted psychiatrist in history, made the observation about the human mind long ago. We are inherently tied to a belief in something greater than self. He maintained that our complex minds are such that if God did not exist we would have to create him. We would have destroyed ourselves otherwise. I believe humans would have never formed civilizations. It is directly the result of our inherent awareness of something greater than self which enabled us to join together to form civilizations.

Now, does that in of itself prove spiritual existence? No, but it does prove there is something vitally essential to the belief in something spiritual. This simply can't be dismissed as figment of imagination or mental delusions. There is clearly something more fundamental to it than that. If not, the species would have simply discarded the "superstition" many thousands of years ago and there would have probably never been organized religions.... and I would argue, OR civilizations.

Dear Boss:
Don't be onesided -- remember there are people DYING for the LACK of knowledge such as spiritual healing that could save lives. So REJECTING spiritual beliefs causes death and suffering also that could have been prevented and healed.

People DIE for their spiritual beliefs in peace.
The ones who won't join the Terrorists get killed and so do their families.

Does that mean we should ban such people from believing in nonviolence?
Which side are you going to ban if you are blaming beliefs?

You can't just blame religions when it's people fighting for POWER regardless what the conflict is between GROUPS and TRIBES competing.

You want to blame race? Well, both sides of any issue have their own identity to defend.

The real issue is not resolving conflicts without oppression, bullying abuse and violence.

That's independent of spiritual or political beliefs.
If people want to dominate and control,
DIVIDE and CONQUER then it's that spirit of unfair competition and pack mentality/pecking order
that is behind it.

I think you are a fair person.

If you are going to make a generalization about what is the problem,
make sure it explains ALL cases, BOTH sides of conflicts, and not just the one for your convenience.

You of all people on here are capable of that.
So I expect more of you than the average person who is pushing their emotional bias.

You can rise above it, so I challenge you even more than what you are already doing.
More power to you, Boss

Respectfully yours,
Emily

Dear emilynghiem, I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I find it impossible to argue against a point by being both for and against the point I am arguing against at the same time. So yes, whenever you find me arguing against someone else's point of view, I am intentionally being "one sided" because, otherwise, it is not an argument.

Bless your heart, I know that you fancy yourself as the "Great Mediator" and genuinely want everyone to sit around the campfire holding hands signing 'Kumbaya' but I actually think USMB would be a totally boring waste of time if that were the case. We all come here to state our opinions and argue our points with one another.

In that regard, it doesn't accomplish anything for me to make a point, then contradict my own point, then make my point only to contradict it again.... other than to demonstrate that I may suffer from some bipolar neurosis. I respect that other people don't share my point of view, I don't demand they accept my point of view and I don't expect them to. I haven't called for anyone to be banned over their point of view. I am merely here to express my point of view and objective readers can draw their own conclusions.

I respect your input and perspective but often times it seems you simply want to dance around tossing daisies at everyone and calling for civility. No offense, that's just how it seems to me. I guess I just don't get the purpose in that with regard to objective reasoning.

 

[Boss]

I don't care if THE UNIVERSE you know and see now had a beginning and end. That's not what I said. Time existed before the big bang and it will continue after our universe dies out.

HOW CAN IT BE? If "TIME" is a physical dimension of the universe in which it exists?

There may not be a universe or an earth or air in that spot but it will exist and time will keep ticking after this universe swallows itself.

But physics has proven this false. Time cannot "keep ticking" if a universe doesn't exist for time to exist as a dimension in. Even within our own universe as it presently exists, time is not ticking the same universally. I know that's a really hard concept to wrap your mind around but it has been proven true by Einstein and others. We observe this as a fact of physical nature.

As you approach the speed of light, time slows down. Theoretically, time stops at the speed of light. I believe this is precisely why we cannot see anything inside a black hole... there is no TIME for light to escape. Time no longer exists there. Light cannot travel if there is no time for light to travel. If there is no space, there can be no time.

So... before there was a universe, there was no space and no time. Space IS the universe. Everything IN the universe occupies space. You seem to want to envision a universe existing in time and space but devoid of matter and energy... then some cosmic event transpired and matter/energy was dispersed into the time and space which eternally existed.... that is a contradiction of physics. You can certainly BELIEVE that but it's a faith-based belief that isn't rooted in physics or science.

 

[sealybobo]

He says its because humans are hardwired to believe even though its obvious that the instinct to survive is what is hard wired and people have expressed a belief in gods because if they didn't they, and sometimes even their entire family, were executed.

But in even more instances, they were executed FOR their beliefs in God or the wrong God.

For as long as we have evidence of human civilization, we have evidence of humans practicing spiritual beliefs. This goes back tens of thousands of years before any organized religion.

Sigmund Freud, the most noted psychiatrist in history, made the observation about the human mind long ago. We are inherently tied to a belief in something greater than self. He maintained that our complex minds are such that if God did not exist we would have to create him. We would have destroyed ourselves otherwise. I believe humans would have never formed civilizations. It is directly the result of our inherent awareness of something greater than self which enabled us to join together to form civilizations.

Now, does that in of itself prove spiritual existence? No, but it does prove there is something vitally essential to the belief in something spiritual. This simply can't be dismissed as figment of imagination or mental delusions. There is clearly something more fundamental to it than that. If not, the species would have simply discarded the "superstition" many thousands of years ago and there would have probably never been organized religions.... and I would argue, OR civilizations.

Dear Boss:
Don't be onesided -- remember there are people DYING for the LACK of knowledge such as spiritual healing that could save lives. So REJECTING spiritual beliefs causes death and suffering also that could have been prevented and healed.

People DIE for their spiritual beliefs in peace.
The ones who won't join the Terrorists get killed and so do their families.

Does that mean we should ban such people from believing in nonviolence?
Which side are you going to ban if you are blaming beliefs?

You can't just blame religions when it's people fighting for POWER regardless what the conflict is between GROUPS and TRIBES competing.

You want to blame race? Well, both sides of any issue have their own identity to defend.

The real issue is not resolving conflicts without oppression, bullying abuse and violence.

That's independent of spiritual or political beliefs.
If people want to dominate and control,
DIVIDE and CONQUER then it's that spirit of unfair competition and pack mentality/pecking order
that is behind it.

I think you are a fair person.

If you are going to make a generalization about what is the problem,
make sure it explains ALL cases, BOTH sides of conflicts, and not just the one for your convenience.

You of all people on here are capable of that.
So I expect more of you than the average person who is pushing their emotional bias.

You can rise above it, so I challenge you even more than what you are already doing.
More power to you, Boss

Respectfully yours,
Emily

Dear emilynghiem, I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I find it impossible to argue against a point by being both for and against the point I am arguing against at the same time. So yes, whenever you find me arguing against someone else's point of view, I am intentionally being "one sided" because, otherwise, it is not an argument.

Bless your heart, I know that you fancy yourself as the "Great Mediator" and genuinely want everyone to sit around the campfire holding hands signing 'Kumbaya' but I actually think USMB would be a totally boring waste of time if that were the case. We all come here to state our opinions and argue our points with one another.

In that regard, it doesn't accomplish anything for me to make a point, then contradict my own point, then make my point only to contradict it again.... other than to demonstrate that I may suffer from some bipolar neurosis. I respect that other people don't share my point of view, I don't demand they accept my point of view and I don't expect them to. I haven't called for anyone to be banned over their point of view. I am merely here to express my point of view and objective readers can draw their own conclusions.

I respect your input and perspective but often times it seems you simply want to dance around tossing daisies at everyone and calling for civility. No offense, that's just how it seems to me. I guess I just don't get the purpose in that with regard to objective reasoning.

As much as I consider her a nice person, I don't even bother reading her posts. I know what it's going to say and she needs to realize how ineffective her tactic or approach is. What is the definition of insanity? Doing or saying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I know we all do it but god damn Emily! Your schtick is very ineffective. Boss don't like it, I don't like it and seems like the Emily Cult is a cult of 1. Poor Dear Emily. LOL.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't care if THE UNIVERSE you know and see now had a beginning and end. That's not what I said. Time existed before the big bang and it will continue after our universe dies out.

HOW CAN IT BE? If "TIME" is a physical dimension of the universe in which it exists?

There may not be a universe or an earth or air in that spot but it will exist and time will keep ticking after this universe swallows itself.

But physics has proven this false. Time cannot "keep ticking" if a universe doesn't exist for time to exist as a dimension in. Even within our own universe as it presently exists, time is not ticking the same universally. I know that's a really hard concept to wrap your mind around but it has been proven true by Einstein and others. We observe this as a fact of physical nature.

As you approach the speed of light, time slows down. Theoretically, time stops at the speed of light. I believe this is precisely why we cannot see anything inside a black hole... there is no TIME for light to escape. Time no longer exists there. Light cannot travel if there is no time for light to travel. If there is no space, there can be no time.

So... before there was a universe, there was no space and no time. Space IS the universe. Everything IN the universe occupies space. You seem to want to envision a universe existing in time and space but devoid of matter and energy... then some cosmic event transpired and matter/energy was dispersed into the time and space which eternally existed.... that is a contradiction of physics. You can certainly BELIEVE that but it's a faith-based belief that isn't rooted in physics or science.

Is that what time is for you? Maybe for you that is true. Maybe for you, before the big bang, there was no time. And after your universe is gone, you and everything else in it will cease to exist. Like a bubble. Once it pops it doesn't exist anymore either. But what about everything that was inside the bubble? Doesn't it just get recycled into whatever surrounds the bubble? Do you really think nothing exists outside your tiny little bubble boss? Just because it's a big bubble for you doesn't mean it's all there is.

 

[sealybobo]

You are just a Tardigrade floating around in your drop of water boss

 

[Boss]

If not, what will god do?

And what is beyond this universe? Can't god travel beyond our tiny universe?

Well, what I call "GOD" is a spiritual force that is beyond physical nature. It didn't require physical nature to exist and when physical nature no longer exists, it will still be there. It is not dependent upon the existence of a universe.

"Travel" is something physical elements do in space. So again, you are attempting to apply physics to a spiritual entity that is beyond physical nature. The "GOD" I believe in doesn't travel... it's universally present with or without a physical universe.

I think your biggest problem in understanding or comprehending a spiritual God is that your mind is trapped in a belief that only the physical can exist. I agree that only physical things can physically exist. But spiritual nature is not a physical thing. It is not confined to physical parameters. In fact, I believe it is responsible for physical existence because it is the Creator of it. My evidence is logic... physics cannot have created itself. It's a paradox.

 

[Boss]

I don't care if THE UNIVERSE you know and see now had a beginning and end. That's not what I said. Time existed before the big bang and it will continue after our universe dies out.

HOW CAN IT BE? If "TIME" is a physical dimension of the universe in which it exists?

There may not be a universe or an earth or air in that spot but it will exist and time will keep ticking after this universe swallows itself.

But physics has proven this false. Time cannot "keep ticking" if a universe doesn't exist for time to exist as a dimension in. Even within our own universe as it presently exists, time is not ticking the same universally. I know that's a really hard concept to wrap your mind around but it has been proven true by Einstein and others. We observe this as a fact of physical nature.

As you approach the speed of light, time slows down. Theoretically, time stops at the speed of light. I believe this is precisely why we cannot see anything inside a black hole... there is no TIME for light to escape. Time no longer exists there. Light cannot travel if there is no time for light to travel. If there is no space, there can be no time.

So... before there was a universe, there was no space and no time. Space IS the universe. Everything IN the universe occupies space. You seem to want to envision a universe existing in time and space but devoid of matter and energy... then some cosmic event transpired and matter/energy was dispersed into the time and space which eternally existed.... that is a contradiction of physics. You can certainly BELIEVE that but it's a faith-based belief that isn't rooted in physics or science.

Is that what time is for you? Maybe for you that is true. Maybe for you, before the big bang, there was no time. And after your universe is gone, you and everything else in it will cease to exist. Like a bubble. Once it pops it doesn't exist anymore either. But what about everything that was inside the bubble? Doesn't it just get recycled into whatever surrounds the bubble? Do you really think nothing exists outside your tiny little bubble boss? Just because it's a big bubble for you doesn't mean it's all there is.

It's not a matter of MY opinion... it's not "for me" this is how things are... it has been demonstrated with mathematics by great physicists like Einstein. Mathematics does not lie. Mathematics is not an opinion. Mathematics is not a philosophy. Mathematics is true for you just as it's true for me.

Now... If I were here arguing that 1+1=4.... and you were arguing that 1+1 doesn't equal 4.... and I insisted that regardless of your "beliefs" 1+1=4 and that's the truth.... what would you say about that? You would certainly argue that 1+1=2 is NOT your "belief" but a proven mathematical equation. And that's the crux of the argument we are having here. Mathematics disproves your assertions about the universe and time/space. e=mc2.... that's mathematics... not an opinion.

 

[Hollie]

If not, what will god do?

And what is beyond this universe? Can't god travel beyond our tiny universe?

Well, what I call "GOD" is a spiritual force that is beyond physical nature. It didn't require physical nature to exist and when physical nature no longer exists, it will still be there. It is not dependent upon the existence of a universe.

"Travel" is something physical elements do in space. So again, you are attempting to apply physics to a spiritual entity that is beyond physical nature. The "GOD" I believe in doesn't travel... it's universally present with or without a physical universe.

I think your biggest problem in understanding or comprehending a spiritual God is that your mind is trapped in a belief that only the physical can exist. I agree that only physical things can physically exist. But spiritual nature is not a physical thing. It is not confined to physical parameters. In fact, I believe it is responsible for physical existence because it is the Creator of it. My evidence is logic... physics cannot have created itself. It's a paradox.

It appears you have difficulty accepting that your claims to particular, partisan gods, spirit realms and "magic" as an explanation for existence are really no different than the claims for competing versions of gods, spirit realms and "it's magic" as a viable explanation for anything.

Your new fangled religion, obviously, follows from and steals ruthlessly from the claims of so many of the religions invented before yours.

You need a "hook", something unique to Bossy's Religion of Magical Spirit Realms if you really want to gain converts.

Read up a bit about L. Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite for a primer on the "hook".

 

[Boss]

It appears you have difficulty accepting that your claims to particular, partisan gods...

I don't make any claim to a partisan God, particular or otherwise.

As for claims of "magic" that seems to be YOUR belief. I don't believe in magic. I think logic belies magic. Physical nature did not come to be through magic. In order for it to exist, something had to create it... I believe that was Spiritual Nature... you believe it was "Magic!"

 

[Hollie]

It appears you have difficulty accepting that your claims to particular, partisan gods...

I don't make any claim to a partisan God, particular or otherwise.

As for claims of "magic" that seems to be YOUR belief. I don't believe in magic. I think logic belies magic. Physical nature did not come to be through magic. In order for it to exist, something had to create it... I believe that was Spiritual Nature... you believe it was "Magic!"

Well, actually, you often make references to a god. You have simply tried to re-title your invented gods as some magical, "spiritual force".

Your claims to magical spirit realms are actually very different from the perceivable, understandable physical world. While the natural world was once thought to be be ruled by gods not different from your gods, it was science and learning that pulled back the veil of fear and superstition. Our understanding of the physical world has left no room for gods of thunder, lightning, etc.

I can only hope that you can eventually address your fears and ignorance of the natural world.

It appears you're having no success in gaining converts to your new dangled religion so why not drop the charade and embrace a reality based worldview, one not in any need of fear, superstition and "magic" for its existence?

 

[sealybobo]

It appears you have difficulty accepting that your claims to particular, partisan gods...

I don't make any claim to a partisan God, particular or otherwise.

As for claims of "magic" that seems to be YOUR belief. I don't believe in magic. I think logic belies magic. Physical nature did not come to be through magic. In order for it to exist, something had to create it... I believe that was Spiritual Nature... you believe it was "Magic!"

Well, actually, you often make references to a god. You have simply tried to re-title your invented gods as some magical, "spiritual force".

Your claims to magical spirit realms are actually very different from the perceivable, understandable physical world. While the natural world was once thought to be be ruled by gods not different from your gods, it was science and learning that pulled back the veil of fear and superstition. Our understanding of the physical world has left no room for gods of thunder, lightning, etc.

I can only hope that you can eventually address your fears and ignorance of the natural world.

It appears you're having no success in gaining converts to your new dangled religion so why not drop the charade and embrace a reality based worldview, one not in any need of fear, superstition and "magic" for its existence?

Here's what bothers me about theists. We all want to know how we got here, what is our purpose and what happens after we die. That's natural.

What I dont like is people who lie and claim they know, because he visited.

 

[Boss]

Here's what bothers me about theists. We all want to know how we got here, what is our purpose and what happens after we die. That's natural.

You say it is "natural" but where else do we find it in nature? We're the only species who has such awareness or contemplation of it's existence and purpose. Arguments can be made that our cerebral cortex development just happened to have advanced further than other mammals and primates... but then, how could brains so advanced create something so superficial yet also so satisfying with regard to housing our awareness and contemplation? We're so smart we fooled ourselves into believing a fairy tale and it works to satisfy our superior intellects?. That doesn't comport with rationality.

To me... it has always made more sense that we are spiritually aware and that is what causes us to contemplate what happens when we die, why we are here and how we got here. In the void of clear answers and with our unquenchable spiritual awareness, we developed what is known as "religions."

 

[sealybobo]

Here's what bothers me about theists. We all want to know how we got here, what is our purpose and what happens after we die. That's natural.

You say it is "natural" but where else do we find it in nature? We're the only species who has such awareness or contemplation of it's existence and purpose. Arguments can be made that our cerebral cortex development just happened to have advanced further than other mammals and primates... but then, how could brains so advanced create something so superficial yet also so satisfying with regard to housing our awareness and contemplation? We're so smart we fooled ourselves into believing a fairy tale and it works to satisfy our superior intellects?. That doesn't comport with rationality.

To me... it has always made more sense that we are spiritually aware and that is what causes us to contemplate what happens when we die, why we are here and how we got here. In the void of clear answers and with our unquenchable spiritual awareness, we developed what is known as "religions."

I saw the other day that other great apes are starting to make incredible leaps forward mentally.

And it's possible dolphins believe in God too.

 

[Boss]

I saw the other day that other great apes are starting to make incredible leaps forward mentally.

And it's possible dolphins believe in God too.

Well if that is true, doesn't it kind of completely destroy an argument that someone made all this stuff up? If we find that other species have natural spiritual awareness, that kind of gives us physical evidence of a spiritual existence. We certainly didn't brainwash the dolphins.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

Arguments can be made that our cerebral cortex development just happened to have advanced further than other mammals and primates...

the same endless obsession for a neural-physiological and limited explanation for a boundless existence shared by all beings equally.

.

 

[sealybobo]

I saw the other day that other great apes are starting to make incredible leaps forward mentally.

And it's possible dolphins believe in God too.

Well if that is true, doesn't it kind of completely destroy an argument that someone made all this stuff up? If we find that other species have natural spiritual awareness, that kind of gives us physical evidence of a spiritual existence. We certainly didn't brainwash the dolphins.

Sure. Dolphins wonder how they got here, what's the porpoise and what happens when they die too.