Why do the God-haters persist?

[Montrovant]

Moonbat, I've already entertained your "maybe there was a nutter" theory. If there were any such cases, they are not documented by any of the tribes I am aware of. Had there been some anomaly instance of such a person, they would have likely been expediently killed and their body burned, and probably their mother and immediate family just to be safe. Then they would have taken the ashes to someplace far away and put them in a place where only death would come in contact with them. Following all of this, the others of the tribe would probably perform some ceremonial rituals for the next months, to ensure the Great Spirit had not become angry. Now, you ask me how I could possibly know all of this? Well because it's documented this is the kind of thing they did with individuals who dared to challenge the authority of the tribal leader. To put it simply, these people would not have fucked around with your atheistic pontifications for one second. Such things were not allowed, IF they ever existed at all. As of yet, you have not given any examples of Atheist Native Americans to prove me wrong. You've presented YOUR OPINION, and that's fine... you're wrong.

And BY the way... When I said "some of us" in my previous statement, I meant some of us who are descendents of the indigenous peoples of the continent. Most non-retarded people could've figured that out without me having to spell it out. Now, I honestly do not have the time or patience to break down every little thing I say, explain what every little word means in context, clarify all the possible mistranslations your empty little noggin can conjure up, and make sure there is no possible way you can misunderstand what I say. I am accustomed to communicating with non-retards who can discern context within the scope of a conversation.

And you have presented YOUR OPINION. Even if you are right, that's what you've presented, not fact.

Yes, I did come to the conclusion that you meant some of us who have indigenous ancestry, I pointed that out in a previous post. However, if you honestly can't see how your saying 'an offensive term to some of us' would be construed to mean you are offended, that anyone who read that post would know that you were bringing up other people being offended by a term when you used the word us, then I understand why conversations with you go the way they do. You must be so self-centered that you can hardly imagine anyone coming to a different conclusion than you, or not automatically understanding what you mean no matter how you say it.

So if someone said, "Some of us find the word retard offensive" would you assume that they are telling you they have a mental handicap but don't find the word retard offensive?

 

[Montrovant]

To be clear Boss, because I actually feel clarity is important, I am perfectly willing to accept that as the product of a modern Western nation, my cultural biases may make atheism among Native Americans from before European colonization seem more likely than it actually is.

That doesn't make a statement that there were no atheists any more than an opinion, however. Knowing the beliefs of millions of long dead individuals, particularly when they were parts of cultures who tended toward oral rather than written history, is simply not possible. You can certainly conclude based on the evidence that there were none, and you may be vastly more informed on the subject than I am, I won't dispute those things. Can you admit that there is a possibility, however small, that some few number of Native Americans could have lacked belief in any sort of god at some point? Even if they were killed for those views, even if they held those views to themselves? That's all I'm asking for, acknowledgement that calling it a fact was a step too far.

 

[Boss]

Funny if you look at my 1970's encyclopedia it says 98% of the people of Greece were Greek Orthodox. First, do you really believe all 98% were really "christians" and believed in god? Then you are gullible. I know many Greek Americans who call themselves Greek Orthodox because they were born into it, but like me and you they don't really believe all the stories.

The Greeks are basically the founders of western culture. We are products of that culture. The Greek philosophers brought the attribute of introspection, questioning of who we are and what we believe, what happens next. It is through that philosophy we have this self-centered belief system which enables us to consider various possibilities regarding Gods and Religions. Native Americans did not have that cultural underpinning. This point seems to be flying comfortably over your head as well as Moonbat's. We're talking about two completely different ways of thinking, schools of thought. Native Americans did not have introspection of self, things didn't revolve around the individual.

As for the indians. If penalty was death, how can you know if anyone really believes or are they all just going along not to be tortured and killed by savage indians? I'm sure some didn't really believe. I have to believe as savage and barbaric as they were they had to have some phylosophers in the bunch. I'm sure even some indians themselves feared savage indians from other tribes, or is that just stuff I saw in movies? Looked like they would concur other tribes, kill the men and take their women. They'd raise their babies though. They were at least kind to children.

I did not say "the penalty was death" ...there was no penalty, it was not an issue. I explained how such an instance would have been handled in the event someone was kicked in the head by a horse or born without a normal brain, and didn't adhere to the Great Spirit. It wasn't something held over their heads... you're gonna 'believe' or we're gonna kill you! Again, you are thinking in western culture terms here and failing to grasp they had a different culture. From their perspective, this was not a "belief" but a truth that was unquestionable.

It is noted that you continue to disrespect these people by calling them "indians" when you've been told that is highly offensive. Apparently, your bigotry is blind and oblivious. As for savagery, they were no more savage than the Nordics or Mongolians. Yes, much of what you believe is due to myths spread by Hollywood.

I actually like indians and their history and I am sorry what we did to them. Just think of how much more beautiful the middle of the country would be if we left it alone and didn't develop it into cities and smog and concrete and steal. If you wanted to go live with them you had to live by their rules, which I would gladly do. Ever see Jeremiah Johnson? I would love to sell everything and go do that, until the savages came and killed his wife and son and then tried to kill him. And not that I blame them. That's what the indians should have done to the people on the Mayflower and every other ship that came after. Go take something else over. Go to Africa they should have told us. This land is not for sale. They should have put up borders.

You wouldn't survive one day with any Native American tribe. You'd start spewing your anti-God nonsense and you'd be history. The scant few white men who ever interacted with Native Americans had to be totally respectful of their spirituality. Somehow, I don't see your bigoted ass being able to pull that off. The Puritans, on the other hand, were able to cohabitate with them because they developed a mutual respect through spirit. For nearly a century, there was no problem between Native Americans and early settlers. Of course, there were some tribes who weren't hospitable, and didn't cotton to white men encroaching on their lands, but all-in-all, the early settlers had a generally good relationship with the Native Americans. We could not have ever colonized otherwise.

Well were going to have to just agree to disagree.

You haven't proved there is a god. Pretty big thing not to be able to prove don't you think? How many days have you, Gismys & Emiy tried and so far you've given us nothing. This is why the younger generation is leaving the churches. Even if they agree with you, they really have no "proof". But at least, like you, they realize the jesus, mormon, muslim & jew stories are not real.

I've not tried to prove God. I've also not stated that anything isn't real. You're a hypocrite. You claim the best and most rational position is "we don't know" but then you turn around and argue as if you DO know. This is typical of most bigots, they can't support their opinions but they believe their opinions are empirical and anyone who challenges them are wrong.

There is no church that teaches what you preach, correct? You've pontificated, phylosophized, a lot of interesting points. I'll give you the karma thing does make me think. But it doesn't lead me to a god either. And since you agree that believing in this god if he does exist doesn't matter, I guess it's ok that I don't believe in god, right? And I too am not perfect. I too was raised with the fear of god, and taught about karma. But that might all be random. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. I asked my christian brother about karma and he said it's real if you believe it's real. So I will give you that I do think it matters if you are a good person or not.

If you believe in Karma as you claimed you did several times, and are again tepidly claiming you do... then you are not an atheist or agnostic. You are spiritual, whether you realize it or not. You do believe in something greater than self, Karma. Now it seems to me, the only real difference between you and someone who believes in God is semantics and terminology.

And I do understand there is the non physical. Have you ever taken a tuning rod and hit it and the guy across the room's rod starts making noise? Telepathic stuff. There is so much you and I don't know. I watch these shows. They aren't anti religion but they are scientific shows and just the facts and information they are giving always seems to innocently go against religion. Thats when I understand why religion hates science. But they back track and they are slick like you. No matter how many things they have proved are not god when people thought they were, yet you guys continue to move the goal post. God keeps getting smaller and smaller. God of the gaps is what its called.

I can go you one better... Look at the scientific study of atoms. An atom is the smallest form of matter, there are 237 quintillion atoms in a grain of sand. Each atom is comprised of a nucleus and the nucleus is orbited by electrons which define the atom. These electrons pop into and out of existence all the time, they can be at two places at the same time. This completely defies any concept of logic we understand in the physical world, yet at the molecular level, it is exactly what is happening with every atom in the universe, of which all matter consists. Can you explain that? I can't. Also... we can take atoms and collide them together, producing subatomic particles of all sorts. We've discovered tens of thousands of subatomic particles this way. It's like, each atom is a little surprise package of particles we've never seen before. Each of these particles has sometimes radically different properties enabling their atoms to do different things. For all intents and purposes, these are little tiny microscopic "miracles" happening on a regular basis to enable existence of everything we perceive as material in our universe. In other words, physical existence itself, is a spiritual miracle happening in real time.

so i guess i am the first native to answer this but i am sure i won't be the last. (we are still alive btw)

we do not worship as you know it. we give thanks. we believe the world and everything in it was created. after that fact there is NOTHING in common with christianity or any other religion. each nation has its own beliefs traditionally.

no we don't have gods. we don't even have one god. we acknowledge the spirit world. and past what i have said, there is nothing else i wish to share about my beliefs except that they are meant for me and the other people of my nation. they are not even for other natives. they have their own traditions.

we do not believe one belief is better than another..just better for us as a people.

you may have to rethink your whole idea that if it is good it must have something to do with your god. my experience is christianity brought nothing to us but death and suffering even into the 21st century. we live our beliefs. it is not lip service. you can see WHAT we believe by what we DO.

Best answer Boss!!!

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091125160239AAMqIvN

Clap

Great... You've just proven my point. I have never claimed that Native Americans believed in the Christian God. It is their culture which is centered on spirit and not self. Unlike western culture where individuals can have introspective thought and consider various possibilities regarding the spiritual, these people are tied directly to spirit and everything revolves around that.

 

[Boss]

To be clear Boss, because I actually feel clarity is important, I am perfectly willing to accept that as the product of a modern Western nation, my cultural biases may make atheism among Native Americans from before European colonization seem more likely than it actually is.

That doesn't make a statement that there were no atheists any more than an opinion, however. Knowing the beliefs of millions of long dead individuals, particularly when they were parts of cultures who tended toward oral rather than written history, is simply not possible. You can certainly conclude based on the evidence that there were none, and you may be vastly more informed on the subject than I am, I won't dispute those things. Can you admit that there is a possibility, however small, that some few number of Native Americans could have lacked belief in any sort of god at some point? Even if they were killed for those views, even if they held those views to themselves? That's all I'm asking for, acknowledgement that calling it a fact was a step too far.

I never said they believed in God. I imagine the idea of a Christian God was as foreign to them as the idea of Atheism. They all understood a universal truth described as the Great Spirit. There were no exceptions to this, it was part of their culture. I understand what you're trying to get at here, but you are approaching your understanding from a different perspective and not comprehending the fundamental difference in culture. It was not a choice of belief in the Great Spirit, it was a truth they all understood as such.

Now... Tell me this... How can you "lack belief" in something you understand as a universal truth? Can you see how that would be a contradiction of logic? There is no way to know something is universally true, yet also "lack belief" in it. It's just not logically possible. From a western cultural philosophy standpoint, there is no "universal truth" when it comes to spirituality, but that is a western culture perspective that did not exist with Native Americans. To them, everything was central to the Great Spirit, and that's why we find their very names and identities were tied to the spiritual. Everything about who they were and what they did, every aspect of their lives and life in general, was centered on this spirit. It wasn't a "belief" to them, it was a truth that was undeniable.

 

[sealybobo]

Funny if you look at my 1970's encyclopedia it says 98% of the people of Greece were Greek Orthodox. First, do you really believe all 98% were really "christians" and believed in god? Then you are gullible. I know many Greek Americans who call themselves Greek Orthodox because they were born into it, but like me and you they don't really believe all the stories.

The Greeks are basically the founders of western culture. We are products of that culture. The Greek philosophers brought the attribute of introspection, questioning of who we are and what we believe, what happens next. It is through that philosophy we have this self-centered belief system which enables us to consider various possibilities regarding Gods and Religions. Native Americans did not have that cultural underpinning. This point seems to be flying comfortably over your head as well as Moonbat's. We're talking about two completely different ways of thinking, schools of thought. Native Americans did not have introspection of self, things didn't revolve around the individual.

As for the indians. If penalty was death, how can you know if anyone really believes or are they all just going along not to be tortured and killed by savage indians? I'm sure some didn't really believe. I have to believe as savage and barbaric as they were they had to have some phylosophers in the bunch. I'm sure even some indians themselves feared savage indians from other tribes, or is that just stuff I saw in movies? Looked like they would concur other tribes, kill the men and take their women. They'd raise their babies though. They were at least kind to children.

I did not say "the penalty was death" ...there was no penalty, it was not an issue. I explained how such an instance would have been handled in the event someone was kicked in the head by a horse or born without a normal brain, and didn't adhere to the Great Spirit. It wasn't something held over their heads... you're gonna 'believe' or we're gonna kill you! Again, you are thinking in western culture terms here and failing to grasp they had a different culture. From their perspective, this was not a "belief" but a truth that was unquestionable.

It is noted that you continue to disrespect these people by calling them "indians" when you've been told that is highly offensive. Apparently, your bigotry is blind and oblivious. As for savagery, they were no more savage than the Nordics or Mongolians. Yes, much of what you believe is due to myths spread by Hollywood.



You wouldn't survive one day with any Native American tribe. You'd start spewing your anti-God nonsense and you'd be history. The scant few white men who ever interacted with Native Americans had to be totally respectful of their spirituality. Somehow, I don't see your bigoted ass being able to pull that off. The Puritans, on the other hand, were able to cohabitate with them because they developed a mutual respect through spirit. For nearly a century, there was no problem between Native Americans and early settlers. Of course, there were some tribes who weren't hospitable, and didn't cotton to white men encroaching on their lands, but all-in-all, the early settlers had a generally good relationship with the Native Americans. We could not have ever colonized otherwise.



I've not tried to prove God. I've also not stated that anything isn't real. You're a hypocrite. You claim the best and most rational position is "we don't know" but then you turn around and argue as if you DO know. This is typical of most bigots, they can't support their opinions but they believe their opinions are empirical and anyone who challenges them are wrong.



If you believe in Karma as you claimed you did several times, and are again tepidly claiming you do... then you are not an atheist or agnostic. You are spiritual, whether you realize it or not. You do believe in something greater than self, Karma. Now it seems to me, the only real difference between you and someone who believes in God is semantics and terminology.

And I do understand there is the non physical. Have you ever taken a tuning rod and hit it and the guy across the room's rod starts making noise? Telepathic stuff. There is so much you and I don't know. I watch these shows. They aren't anti religion but they are scientific shows and just the facts and information they are giving always seems to innocently go against religion. Thats when I understand why religion hates science. But they back track and they are slick like you. No matter how many things they have proved are not god when people thought they were, yet you guys continue to move the goal post. God keeps getting smaller and smaller. God of the gaps is what its called.

I can go you one better... Look at the scientific study of atoms. An atom is the smallest form of matter, there are 237 quintillion atoms in a grain of sand. Each atom is comprised of a nucleus and the nucleus is orbited by electrons which define the atom. These electrons pop into and out of existence all the time, they can be at two places at the same time. This completely defies any concept of logic we understand in the physical world, yet at the molecular level, it is exactly what is happening with every atom in the universe, of which all matter consists. Can you explain that? I can't. Also... we can take atoms and collide them together, producing subatomic particles of all sorts. We've discovered tens of thousands of subatomic particles this way. It's like, each atom is a little surprise package of particles we've never seen before. Each of these particles has sometimes radically different properties enabling their atoms to do different things. For all intents and purposes, these are little tiny microscopic "miracles" happening on a regular basis to enable existence of everything we perceive as material in our universe. In other words, physical existence itself, is a spiritual miracle happening in real time.

so i guess i am the first native to answer this but i am sure i won't be the last. (we are still alive btw)

we do not worship as you know it. we give thanks. we believe the world and everything in it was created. after that fact there is NOTHING in common with christianity or any other religion. each nation has its own beliefs traditionally.

no we don't have gods. we don't even have one god. we acknowledge the spirit world. and past what i have said, there is nothing else i wish to share about my beliefs except that they are meant for me and the other people of my nation. they are not even for other natives. they have their own traditions.

we do not believe one belief is better than another..just better for us as a people.

you may have to rethink your whole idea that if it is good it must have something to do with your god. my experience is christianity brought nothing to us but death and suffering even into the 21st century. we live our beliefs. it is not lip service. you can see WHAT we believe by what we DO.

Best answer Boss!!!

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091125160239AAMqIvN

Clap

Great... You've just proven my point. I have never claimed that Native Americans believed in the Christian God. It is their culture which is centered on spirit and not self. Unlike western culture where individuals can have introspective thought and consider various possibilities regarding the spiritual, these people are tied directly to spirit and everything revolves around that.

Well you have to realize that when it comes to debating someone who thinks like you, I'm an Agnostic Atheist. But when it comes to any organized religion that claims they not only know god exists they also have stories about when he visited, I am an atheist.

But I truly do admit that I don't know if there is a god. Do I think there is? No. Do I think there is a hell? No. But of course I don't know that either. I'm just pretty sure that the real god if there is one, doesn't care if we believe.

Anyways, I still think you, the indians and everyone else who believe in god do so because you've been programmed to believe and because you want to believe.

As for splitting atoms, I'm sure a scientist could explain all that to you. I sure can't.

Anyways, sorry I'm distracted. My 94 year old grandmother is dying and my aunt just called.

 

[orogenicman]

Sorry about your grandmother, sealybobo

 

[Boss]

Well you have to realize that when it comes to debating someone who thinks like you, I'm an Agnostic Atheist. But when it comes to any organized religion that claims they not only know god exists they also have stories about when he visited, I am an atheist.

Debating? Is that what you think we've been doing? I must have missed the debate part.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in all the thousands of posts in several threads by numerous posters, YOU are the only one who has used the term "agnostic atheist." That's because there is no such thing. You're using a term for something that doesn't exist. The fact that you continue to use it is evidence of how incredibly stupid you are. Not that there was a shortage of such evidence.

But I truly do admit that I don't know if there is a god. Do I think there is? No. Do I think there is a hell? No. But of course I don't know that either. I'm just pretty sure that the real god if there is one, doesn't care if we believe.

Well, if you would stick with your first sentence, I wouldn't have nearly as much to have to comment on in your remarks. But what you consistently do is talk out of both sides of your mouth... first, you say you don't know, then you claim that you're sure. If you don't know, then you don't know if any god is the real god. Also, if you believe in anything without evidence, by definition, you have faith. That's exactly what faith is... belief without evidence. Now, I have not seen you present ANY evidence to support your stated beliefs here. So I can only deduce you have faith. It's important for you to comprehend that your faiths are no more important than the faiths of others.

Anyways, I still think you, the indians and everyone else who believe in god do so because you've been programmed to believe and because you want to believe.

Okay.... this is now the third time I've pointed out that you are using an offensive term for Native Americans. They are not "indians!" This is no different than me calling you "Jewface!" Maybe I will start calling you that and we'll see how you like it, Jewface?

Do you honestly think I've been "programmed" to believe the way I do? It was through years and years of my own observations and investigations that I came to understand God. If I didn't make a daily connection to God through spiritual contemplation, I couldn't believe in God. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly wasn't programmed to believe in God. Native Americans also weren't programmed, they were simply following their culture.

As for splitting atoms, I'm sure a scientist could explain all that to you. I sure can't.

I didn't expect you to explain it to me. I don't need it explained. I presented it as an example of something happening all around you, in every material thing you're aware of. Electrons are literally popping into and out of existence, being at two places at one time, defying everything you think of as logical in the physical universe. This is the nature of all material things.

Anyways, sorry I'm distracted. My 94 year old grandmother is dying and my aunt just called.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. During this stressful time, I hope that you will keep your opinions about God and afterlife to yourself, for the sake of your family. I know that it's not important to you that your grandmother is passing away, after all, the population has to be controlled, right? And I realize that you are fine with the idea that her spirit and soul will be gone for the rest of eternity and she will be nothing more than worm food. But I am also quite sure most of your family believes the person she was, the things she did in life, the efforts she made to be a good person, were not in vain and her spirit is going on to a new journey from here. I just hope you can be respectful of their faith, and I will pray to my God today for you to have strength in this time of need.

 

[Montrovant]

No one else may be using the term, but it certainly does seem to exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Agnostic Atheist - Dictionary Definition

Agnostic Atheist

 

[BreezeWood]

B: We see them here everyday, interjecting their hate-filled insultuous attacks on the religious, mocking and ridiculing to a bizarre extreme, anything and everything to do with God.

B: Debating? Is that what you think we've been doing? I must have missed the debate part.

yes, you have ...

.

 

[sealybobo]

Well you have to realize that when it comes to debating someone who thinks like you, I'm an Agnostic Atheist. But when it comes to any organized religion that claims they not only know god exists they also have stories about when he visited, I am an atheist.

Debating? Is that what you think we've been doing? I must have missed the debate part.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in all the thousands of posts in several threads by numerous posters, YOU are the only one who has used the term "agnostic atheist." That's because there is no such thing. You're using a term for something that doesn't exist. The fact that you continue to use it is evidence of how incredibly stupid you are. Not that there was a shortage of such evidence.

But I truly do admit that I don't know if there is a god. Do I think there is? No. Do I think there is a hell? No. But of course I don't know that either. I'm just pretty sure that the real god if there is one, doesn't care if we believe.

Well, if you would stick with your first sentence, I wouldn't have nearly as much to have to comment on in your remarks. But what you consistently do is talk out of both sides of your mouth... first, you say you don't know, then you claim that you're sure. If you don't know, then you don't know if any god is the real god. Also, if you believe in anything without evidence, by definition, you have faith. That's exactly what faith is... belief without evidence. Now, I have not seen you present ANY evidence to support your stated beliefs here. So I can only deduce you have faith. It's important for you to comprehend that your faiths are no more important than the faiths of others.



Okay.... this is now the third time I've pointed out that you are using an offensive term for Native Americans. They are not "indians!" This is no different than me calling you "Jewface!" Maybe I will start calling you that and we'll see how you like it, Jewface?

Do you honestly think I've been "programmed" to believe the way I do? It was through years and years of my own observations and investigations that I came to understand God. If I didn't make a daily connection to God through spiritual contemplation, I couldn't believe in God. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly wasn't programmed to believe in God. Native Americans also weren't programmed, they were simply following their culture.

As for splitting atoms, I'm sure a scientist could explain all that to you. I sure can't.

I didn't expect you to explain it to me. I don't need it explained. I presented it as an example of something happening all around you, in every material thing you're aware of. Electrons are literally popping into and out of existence, being at two places at one time, defying everything you think of as logical in the physical universe. This is the nature of all material things.

Anyways, sorry I'm distracted. My 94 year old grandmother is dying and my aunt just called.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. During this stressful time, I hope that you will keep your opinions about God and afterlife to yourself, for the sake of your family. I know that it's not important to you that your grandmother is passing away, after all, the population has to be controlled, right? And I realize that you are fine with the idea that her spirit and soul will be gone for the rest of eternity and she will be nothing more than worm food. But I am also quite sure most of your family believes the person she was, the things she did in life, the efforts she made to be a good person, were not in vain and her spirit is going on to a new journey from here. I just hope you can be respectful of their faith, and I will pray to my God today for you to have strength in this time of need.

Come one of course I don't talk this shit to my family. Not these family members for sure. They believe the bible literally. I've asked before and based on my aunts reply I wouldn't dare tell her I don't believe. I'm sure there are a lot of christians like me.

I told you boss, as far as the adam and eve god, I'm an atheist. ALTHOUGH, I guess I wasn't there so even that I wouldn't be able to say I'm 100% sure. How could I? Was I there? But it doesn't sound believable to me. I'm willing to be my soul on it anyways.

No, I don't suspect you'd consider it a debate since you only hear yourself. You are like bush. You believe on Wednesday what you believed on Monday regardless of what happens on Tuesday. Stand your ground boss.

At least you aren't a religious nut. But politically you are a right winger so it gives me clear perspective on how no matter what evidence you guys are given, you are NEVER wrong about anything. It's why I don't discuss politics. Doesn't matter if you are wrong if you don't believe you are wrong. Look at Bush. He didn't cause the recession, right?

You guys also hold democrats up to a higher standard. You aren't republicans because it benefits you financially. It's usually because of god gays and guns & you believe they benefit you financially. They don't, but since they never take blame for anything, who can prove that? Hell, you guys believe in a invisible man. How can anyone prove anything to you guys?

What are your wedge issues? I already know you don't want gays to marry, even though you aren't a Christian. That's weird. Why not? Anyways, you are 2 marbles shy of beeing a loon. Keep it up.

 

[Boss]

Come one of course I don't talk this shit to my family. Not these family members for sure. They believe the bible literally. I've asked before and based on my aunts reply I wouldn't dare tell her I don't believe. I'm sure there are a lot of christians like me.

I'm sure you're probably right. I have said before, I know Atheists who are bigger believers in God than some Christians.

I told you boss, as far as the adam and eve god, I'm an atheist. ALTHOUGH, I guess I wasn't there so even that I wouldn't be able to say I'm 100% sure. How could I? Was I there? But it doesn't sound believable to me. I'm willing to be my soul on it anyways.

Lots of things don't sound believable to me. Electrons popping in and out of existence or being in two places at the same time, doesn't sound believable. Places in the universe with no mass but gravitational forces so strong that light cannot escape, doesn't sound believable to me. The realizations these are facts tells me that sometimes things don't sound believable but are.

Willing to bet your soul? But you don't have a soul, remember? If you believe you do have a soul, why would you bet it when you don't have to? In order to harm Christian religion? That's sort of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You're going to be around some Christians when your grandmother passes, take note of the things they do and say and come back to tell me what it is about them that you find dangerous or troubling?

No, I don't suspect you'd consider it a debate since you only hear yourself. You are like bush. You believe on Wednesday what you believed on Monday regardless of what happens on Tuesday. Stand your ground boss.

Yes, I believe what I believe until someone can show me evidence to convince me otherwise. Debates are not popularity of opinion.

At least you aren't a religious nut. But politically you are a right winger so it gives me clear perspective on how no matter what evidence you guys are given, you are NEVER wrong about anything. It's why I don't discuss politics. Doesn't matter if you are wrong if you don't believe you are wrong. Look at Bush. He didn't cause the recession, right?

First of all, what you are doing is stereotyping me. You have built a template of how all right wingers are, and so you paint me with this brush before even hearing my positions or views. You pre judge me... another word for that is prejudice. You don't discuss politics, really? Seems like you are continuously bringing politics into this thread, am I mistaken?

And no.... Bush didn't cause the recession. He certainly hasn't caused the recession to drag on for 5 more years after retirement. Look... IF politicians could control recessions, we'd NEVER have one! Now certain policies can cause recessions to linger or worsen, or even turn one around, but you've not presented any evidence of Bush's recession causing policies, you just spewed out a liberal dummycrat talking point.

You guys also hold democrats up to a higher standard. You aren't republicans because it benefits you financially. It's usually because of god gays and guns & you believe they benefit you financially. They don't, but since they never take blame for anything, who can prove that? Hell, you guys believe in a invisible man. How can anyone prove anything to you guys?

Again, you are painting an entire group of people with one wide brush based on your stereotypes. I don't see Democrats being held to a higher standard, I see Democrats being given a pass on things that would impeach most Republicans, day in and day out.

What are your wedge issues? I already know you don't want gays to marry, even though you aren't a Christian. That's weird. Why not? Anyways, you are 2 marbles shy of beeing a loon. Keep it up.

Wedge issues are called wedge issues because they drive a wedge between two sides that cannot be overcome. I believe these issues shouldn't have to exist in a constitutional republic democracy. We have a system and it works, or at least it has for over 200 years. Your political party has decided it doesn't like the system, and wants to force it's agenda on us through judicial activism and executive fiat. Your Democrat-controlled Senate is currently haggling over how they can overturn a Supreme Court ruling. Now, when it comes to abortion or Obamacare, the SCOTUS is "settled law of the land" and we need to just move on.

I've explained my views on gay marriage in another thread. I support Civil Unions and getting government OUT of the marriage business. I don't believe it's the government's place to determine what IS or ISN'T appropriate marriage for individuals. That should be left up to them to decide and not the government. What is so weird about FREEDOM?

 

[sealybobo]

Come one of course I don't talk this shit to my family. Not these family members for sure. They believe the bible literally. I've asked before and based on my aunts reply I wouldn't dare tell her I don't believe. I'm sure there are a lot of christians like me.

I'm sure you're probably right. I have said before, I know Atheists who are bigger believers in God than some Christians.

I told you boss, as far as the adam and eve god, I'm an atheist. ALTHOUGH, I guess I wasn't there so even that I wouldn't be able to say I'm 100% sure. How could I? Was I there? But it doesn't sound believable to me. I'm willing to be my soul on it anyways.

Lots of things don't sound believable to me. Electrons popping in and out of existence or being in two places at the same time, doesn't sound believable. Places in the universe with no mass but gravitational forces so strong that light cannot escape, doesn't sound believable to me. The realizations these are facts tells me that sometimes things don't sound believable but are.

Willing to bet your soul? But you don't have a soul, remember? If you believe you do have a soul, why would you bet it when you don't have to? In order to harm Christian religion? That's sort of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You're going to be around some Christians when your grandmother passes, take note of the things they do and say and come back to tell me what it is about them that you find dangerous or troubling?



Yes, I believe what I believe until someone can show me evidence to convince me otherwise. Debates are not popularity of opinion.



First of all, what you are doing is stereotyping me. You have built a template of how all right wingers are, and so you paint me with this brush before even hearing my positions or views. You pre judge me... another word for that is prejudice. You don't discuss politics, really? Seems like you are continuously bringing politics into this thread, am I mistaken?

And no.... Bush didn't cause the recession. He certainly hasn't caused the recession to drag on for 5 more years after retirement. Look... IF politicians could control recessions, we'd NEVER have one! Now certain policies can cause recessions to linger or worsen, or even turn one around, but you've not presented any evidence of Bush's recession causing policies, you just spewed out a liberal dummycrat talking point.

You guys also hold democrats up to a higher standard. You aren't republicans because it benefits you financially. It's usually because of god gays and guns & you believe they benefit you financially. They don't, but since they never take blame for anything, who can prove that? Hell, you guys believe in a invisible man. How can anyone prove anything to you guys?

Again, you are painting an entire group of people with one wide brush based on your stereotypes. I don't see Democrats being held to a higher standard, I see Democrats being given a pass on things that would impeach most Republicans, day in and day out.

What are your wedge issues? I already know you don't want gays to marry, even though you aren't a Christian. That's weird. Why not? Anyways, you are 2 marbles shy of beeing a loon. Keep it up.

Wedge issues are called wedge issues because they drive a wedge between two sides that cannot be overcome. I believe these issues shouldn't have to exist in a constitutional republic democracy. We have a system and it works, or at least it has for over 200 years. Your political party has decided it doesn't like the system, and wants to force it's agenda on us through judicial activism and executive fiat. Your Democrat-controlled Senate is currently haggling over how they can overturn a Supreme Court ruling. Now, when it comes to abortion or Obamacare, the SCOTUS is "settled law of the land" and we need to just move on.

I've explained my views on gay marriage in another thread. I support Civil Unions and getting government OUT of the marriage business. I don't believe it's the government's place to determine what IS or ISN'T appropriate marriage for individuals. That should be left up to them to decide and not the government. What is so weird about FREEDOM?

You are so naive about some things, like you don't seem to realize the rich get richer when recessions hit. It allows them to buy low and sell high. Recessions don't bother the investor class as much as they do you or I.

And you are right, I don't want to get into politics because I already know there is no way we're going to agree and you're just going to piss me off with your stupidity.

You need to realize when we say Bush we mean the GOP. Bush is still ******* this economy up. Only now he's in the form of McConnell, Paul Ryan & Boehner.

P.S. My favorite song: Ten Little Indians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The modern lyrics are:

One little, two little, three little Indians
Four little, five little, six little Indians
Seven little, eight little, nine little Indians
Ten little Indian boys.

Ten little, nine little, eight little Indians
Seven little, six little, five little Indians
Four little, three little, two little Indians
One little Indian boy.

The original piece, then called "Ten Little Injuns", was written by songwriter Septimus Winner in 1868 for a minstrel show and was much more elaborate:

Ten little Injuns standin' in a line,
One toddled home and then there were nine;

Nine little Injuns swingin' on a gate,
One tumbled off and then there were eight.

Eight little Injuns gayest under heav'n.
One went to sleep and then there were seven;

Seven little Injuns cuttin' up their tricks,
One broke his neck and then there were six.

Six little Injuns all alive,
One kicked the bucket and then there were five;

Five little Injuns on a cellar door,
One tumbled in and then there were four.

Four little Injuns up on a spree,
One got fuddled and then there were three;

Three little Injuns out on a canoe,
One tumbled overboard and then there were two.

Two little Injuns foolin' with a gun,
One shot t'other and then there was one;

One little Injun livin' all alone,
He got married and then there were none.

 

[Montrovant]

Are we really going to turn this into another political flame war? We get enough of that on the rest of the site.

 

[sealybobo]

Are we really going to turn this into another political flame war? We get enough of that on the rest of the site.

I know, I'm sorry. My fault. So I just saw Gismys post something super gay about why not back a winner jesus not a loser satan. OMG I can't believe that's a dude. How can anyone come here and read all this and not wonder themselves if all the stories are/were made up. Especially when you sit and think about virgin births and rising from the dead after 3 days.

Adam lived to 930 years; Noah even longer, to 950 years

 

[GISMYS]

WHAT THINKING PERSON WOULD THINK ALMIGHTY GOD WHO HAS CREATED THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE WOULD HAVE a problem having a virgin give birt to JESUS OR BRING A DEAD PERSON BACK TO LIFE, WHICH would be harder to do?????????????

 

[Tuatara]

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but in all the thousands of posts in several threads by numerous posters, YOU are the only one who has used the term "agnostic atheist." That's because there is no such thing. You're using a term for something that doesn't exist.

The term exists and most atheists are "agnostic atheists" meaning we cannot say for sure a god or gods exist we simply don't believe they do. Another forum puts "agnostic atheists" ahead of every other religious position.

What is your religious position?


Do your research!

 

[Slyhunter]

WHAT THINKING PERSON WOULD THINK ALMIGHTY GOD WHO HAS CREATED THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE WOULD HAVE a problem having a virgin give birt to JESUS OR BRING A DEAD PERSON BACK TO LIFE, WHICH would be harder to do?????????????

Fine if he did it once why can't he do it again so we all can see he is almighty God. If you have but the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains. Do you have the faith of a mustard seed? How come you ain't moving any mountains? How come nobody is moving any mountains? Nobody has any faith?

 

[GISMYS]

WHAT THINKING PERSON WOULD THINK ALMIGHTY GOD WHO HAS CREATED THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE WOULD HAVE a problem having a virgin give birt to JESUS OR BRING A DEAD PERSON BACK TO LIFE, WHICH would be harder to do?????????????

Fine if he did it once why can't he do it again so we all can see he is almighty God. If you have but the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains. Do you have the faith of a mustard seed? How come you ain't moving any mountains? How come nobody is moving any mountains? Nobody has any faith?

SEEING GOD IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR YOU, KNOWING JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR IS THE ONLY REAL ANSWER TO YOUR PROBLEMS, satan and demons saw GOD but still they chose sin.

 

[Slyhunter]

WHAT THINKING PERSON WOULD THINK ALMIGHTY GOD WHO HAS CREATED THE UNIVERSE AND LIFE WOULD HAVE a problem having a virgin give birt to JESUS OR BRING A DEAD PERSON BACK TO LIFE, WHICH would be harder to do?????????????

Fine if he did it once why can't he do it again so we all can see he is almighty God. If you have but the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains. Do you have the faith of a mustard seed? How come you ain't moving any mountains? How come nobody is moving any mountains? Nobody has any faith?

SEEING GOD IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR YOU, KNOWING JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR IS THE ONLY REAL ANSWER TO YOUR PROBLEMS, satan and demons saw GOD but still they chose sin.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Boss]

You are so naive about some things, like you don't seem to realize the rich get richer when recessions hit. It allows them to buy low and sell high. Recessions don't bother the investor class as much as they do you or I.

Hey, here's a NEWSFLASH for you, genius... "The Rich" get richer no matter what! The only way you can prevent that from happening is to do like Chairman Mao did and confiscate all the wealth from the rich and then execute them. Then you can adopt anti-capitalist policies that prevent anyone from ever becoming rich and all the people can live equally poor! Of course, this won't apply to the ruling class elite, they will still have all the wealth and power, all the luxury and extravagance, but for the most part, the masses will all be poor and dependent on the central government for survival. Is THAT what you're after?

Again... Free market, free enterprise capitalism, like what we have had in America for 200+ years, is the most advantageous system man has ever invented. More people can become millionaires and billionaires than through any other system ever developed. There is not a system that even runs a close second. Yes... Rich people will get richer, and they will get richer at a faster rate than poor people get rich. That's just the nature of things. It can't be avoided. It's better to let that happen, let rich people get richer, then they have money to invest, money to lend, money to lose, money to burn, money to open new businesses and create new jobs, money to expand and create more jobs, money they have to pay taxes on, etc. Just about anything the rich person does with their money, helps those who aren't rich in some way. The only exception is when you try to punish the rich for making money, then they seek out ways to make money but avoid your punishment, like sending it elsewhere to other countries or socking it away in some security or trust fund.

For whatever reason, you can't get that through your vapid little head and you just want to keep on playing Robin Hood! Your plan doesn't work, it has never worked, and it's not going to start working anytime soon. Take some advice from a prominate Democrat icon... A rising tide floats all boats!

You need to realize when we say Bush we mean the GOP. Bush is still ******* this economy up. Only now he's in the form of McConnell, Paul Ryan & Boehner.

How the hell are MINORITY PARTY senators ******* things up? Boehner breaks down in tears whenever Democrats brow beat him over the least little thing. He has folded more times than a cheap K-mart tent. His party base is about ready to send his ass home he has been so ineffective. What the hell has he done, or ANY Republican for that matter, to worsen the economy in the past 5 years? Can you even cite ONE GOP initiative passed by the Republican House that has been approved by Harry Reid's Senate? This president has gotten virtually EVERYTHING he has asked for, from bailouts totalling over $3 trillion, to infrastructure funding over $2 trillion, debt ceiling increases out the ass, not to mention carte blanche on executive orders to do all kinds of unprecedented and frankly unconstitutional shit he has no business doing. Not to mention turning a blind eye to the endless stream of frankly impeachable corruption and scandal going on with this administration.

P.S. My favorite song:

I'm not entertaining your racism anymore. Go **** yourself.