Why do some take belief in Global Warming as a political issue?

[Big Fitz]

Here's the thing.... we can SEE our impact. We have the ability to see not just local, but large scale impacts. We can turn night into day, on a VAST scale. And of course.... light means heat.

There is simply no denying man's ability to make vast impacts on his environment. What you are looking at is all man made heat. And it's no insignificant thing. We can see it from space. And... this is just what we can see. This involves no special CO2 data or speculation. We can SEE IT.

Only fools can reject our ability to have massive affects on the Earths natural condition.

Light is very nice to see as a 'pollutant', and it has zero effect on climate.

Strawman waiting for the torch.

Cite?

So you want me to prove a negative now? Gotcha. You're the one making the laughable assertion it is.

Can you show incontrovertible proof that all that light is affecting climate? You must show cause and effect, not me showing no cause and effect.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Light is very nice to see as a 'pollutant', and it has zero effect on climate.

Strawman waiting for the torch.

Cite?

So you want me to prove a negative now? Gotcha. You're the one making the laughable assertion it is.

Can you show incontrovertible proof that all that light is affecting climate? You must show cause and effect, not me showing no cause and effect.

I don't care if you prove it or not Fitz. You made the claim. Support it or not.

I am not claiming any effect on climate. Never did. You imagined that. It's a picture. It's a picture showing the power of man to affect his environment. That is all. There is no point except: Can you see it or not?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Man is certainly capable of great harm in a local area. By local I mean areas of a few square miles at a time. The Amazon basin is a major problem and there is no doubt about that. For all of its abundant plant wealth when those plants and trees are cut down it is very difficult to regrow them as the soil ( a laterite) is so deficient in nutrients as to be nearly sterile. That's why they burn the trees to get some nutrients back into the soil for at least a coupple of years.

It is OK so long as the damage is kept to a few hectares ata time. The problems arise when you go bigger. Mining waste is another issue (I've spent most of my career repairing that particular daage) that requires siginificant attention.

However, man has nowhere near the ability to affect the global climate. The amount of energy we are talking about is so vast as to be beyond the comprehension of most people.
To give you a rough approximation, the amount of energy released in an AVERAGE
thunderstorm is about the same as when a 20 kiloton nuclear weapon is detonated. Now multiply that by the 40,000 thunderstorms that occur each and EVERY day and you begin to get an idea of the enormous amounts of energy our planet produces.

Mans contribution of a few billion tons of CO2 to the planets overwhelming contribution (over 95% of the atmospheric CO2 is completely natural) to the eventual weight of the entire atmosphere (quadrillions of tons) and you realise that CO2 has no power to do much of anything. It is simply lost in the background noise.

I'm not even speaking to Co2.

I'm merely speaking to this "local" as you say, effect we generate. It's all local. Everything is. It all has an effect on the whole. Again, the water example is a good one. A single well, a "local" effect as you put it, can be easily dismissed as having no significant effect. But after we have drilled millions of wells, these vast, almost incomprehensible aquifers are disappearing. The water table is sinking. 100 years ago it was 25 feet. Then 60. Now it takes a 200' well to reach the water.

The idea that man's small impacts are only "local" and not an affect on the whole is a terrible flaw of logic. It's not "lost in the backgorund noise", you simple chose to not see it, for the back ground noise. It's still there.

Wrong again. I see mans damage every day. My whole life has been devoted to the repair of that damage. I am now retired but for over 35 years that was my goal.

The water tables are sinking due to misues of water plain and simple. Golf courses should not be planted in a desert. Phoenix AZ should not have the population it is attempting to support in a desert. It is simply foolish to do that sort of thing and the environmental damage is great IN THOSE AREAS.

However, you all like to play numbers games till you are actually presented with those numbers and they don't support you. Environmentalists have been actively engaged in programs that do far more damage to the environment than the problems they are supposedly trying to solve. I'll use your water example as a case in point. The California Air Resources Board mandated that MTBE be used as an oxygenate in gasoline to clean the air. It did that job well, however they ignored significant warnings as to MTBE's known carcinogenic problems, its caustic nature and of course its known poisonous qualities.

After 10 years that regularly saw cars bursting into flames (nearly every day) as their fuel systems were destroyed by the MTBE, and the constant illnesses caused by it to sensitive people, they were finally forced to remove it after it was found to have poisoned the water wells throughout the state. Thousands of wells are no longer usable becaue of environmentalists refusal to listen to scientific fact.

I can go on and on about how environmentalists are causing more damage than the problems they are supposedly trying to fix but i doubt you would pay attention to that. You clearly have a fixed mind set. I do however suggest that you read other sources of material and hopefully you will come to the realisation that the environmentalist organizations (not individual people, just the parent organizations) really don't care about the environment. They care about power and how to concentrate it in the hands of those they like.

That's all really sweet.... but, what mention have I made of any environmental groups or legislation or politics at all? Have I said that I support any environmental group?

Are you capable of carrying on a conversation with me? ME? I am not California or an environmental group. I am not advocating any plan or action or law. I am simply demonstrating that those who would tell you that man hasn't the capacity to affect his environment aren't honest brokers in the conversation. Or they are ignorant. In any case, we don't consider them in the rational conversation.

We affect our environment. Yes, we poison wells. We put various smoke and gases in the air. We crap a lot. Let's not forget how sensitive we are to our own shit. It's fairly dangerous stuff that has killed a lot of people. Just dealing with shit is a big issue. And that is part of our affect on our environment. You can't put so many people so close together until we used our knowledge to figure out how to get rid of the shit. It was a sort of population density control all it's own. If we hadn't used the knowledge to run all these pipes and direct shit around and dispose of it, what do you think the streets of New York or Atlanta would be like? There simply wouldn't be like they are. You couldn't have 200,000 people shitting and tossing it out in the street.

We use knowledge to take care of environmental problems that are detrimental to us. Always have. Plumbers were yesterdays radical environmentalist with all their fancy pipes and flush toilets and such. Scared of a little shit.

 

[westwall]

Here's the thing.... we can SEE our impact. We have the ability to see not just local, but large scale impacts. We can turn night into day, on a VAST scale. And of course.... light means heat.

There is simply no denying man's ability to make vast impacts on his environment. What you are looking at is all man made heat. And it's no insignificant thing. We can see it from space. And... this is just what we can see. This involves no special CO2 data or speculation. We can SEE IT.

Only fools can reject our ability to have massive affects on the Earths natural condition.

Yes, we can see the impact. And what you are ignoring is that where you see light there is LIFE. Life that can do as it wishes. Life that can play and learn and socialize and even hopefully come up with the next energy system that will make all of this moot. Where there is darkness at night there is nothing going on. There is subsistence level existence in those areas and I've lived in quite a few of them. And they SUCK! Life is short and brutal. You want to live where there is no light at night? Expect a normal lifespan of 40 years. Get light at night and it jumps to at least 50 years. Get light at night and a good level of wealth and your life expectancy jumps to 60 years.

I don't know about you, but I like being alive. Enjoy your life for as long as you can and stop being afraid. Fear is the mind killer as the movie said. Far more will be, and can be accomplished when you are not afraid.

Afraid? Fear? You are making quite a leap there. Because I have the capacity to see and understand that we have an impact on our world you assume that I must be afraid of it? That I even think we should do whole lot about it? I've said nothing of the sort. I have merely said that I can see it. It can not be denied.

Now.... that is the starting point. What we do with the knowledge is debatable. What isn't debatable is that these folks who claim that man hasn't the capacity to affect his environment are not of sufficient knowledge, intelligence, honesty or a combination of those things, to be considered in the discussion. We have a significant impact on our environment. Do we use our knowledge and intelligence to manage this impact in the interest of preservation of our species? Or do we just continue head long into an unknown, disregarding this hard won knowledge, burning, pillaging and consuming without regard for what consequences might lie ahead?

Any answer is OK. The position of "hey, life is short, I'm gonna get all I can and my children, neighbors and future generations be damned" is a common one. I have next to no respect for that but you do get points for honesty.

And honesty is the key.

We do affect our environment. That's where we start.

When you resort to using the term FOOLS to describe anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. I am a scientist. A real scientist. I have been involved in the Earth Sciences since probably before you were born. I have seen first hand the damage man causes. You look at pictures and jump to your conclusins without having the slightest knowledge of what is actually happening.

That's the difference. i do.

 

[westwall]

I'm not even speaking to Co2.

I'm merely speaking to this "local" as you say, effect we generate. It's all local. Everything is. It all has an effect on the whole. Again, the water example is a good one. A single well, a "local" effect as you put it, can be easily dismissed as having no significant effect. But after we have drilled millions of wells, these vast, almost incomprehensible aquifers are disappearing. The water table is sinking. 100 years ago it was 25 feet. Then 60. Now it takes a 200' well to reach the water.

The idea that man's small impacts are only "local" and not an affect on the whole is a terrible flaw of logic. It's not "lost in the backgorund noise", you simple chose to not see it, for the back ground noise. It's still there.

Wrong again. I see mans damage every day. My whole life has been devoted to the repair of that damage. I am now retired but for over 35 years that was my goal.

The water tables are sinking due to misues of water plain and simple. Golf courses should not be planted in a desert. Phoenix AZ should not have the population it is attempting to support in a desert. It is simply foolish to do that sort of thing and the environmental damage is great IN THOSE AREAS.

However, you all like to play numbers games till you are actually presented with those numbers and they don't support you. Environmentalists have been actively engaged in programs that do far more damage to the environment than the problems they are supposedly trying to solve. I'll use your water example as a case in point. The California Air Resources Board mandated that MTBE be used as an oxygenate in gasoline to clean the air. It did that job well, however they ignored significant warnings as to MTBE's known carcinogenic problems, its caustic nature and of course its known poisonous qualities.

After 10 years that regularly saw cars bursting into flames (nearly every day) as their fuel systems were destroyed by the MTBE, and the constant illnesses caused by it to sensitive people, they were finally forced to remove it after it was found to have poisoned the water wells throughout the state. Thousands of wells are no longer usable becaue of environmentalists refusal to listen to scientific fact.

I can go on and on about how environmentalists are causing more damage than the problems they are supposedly trying to fix but i doubt you would pay attention to that. You clearly have a fixed mind set. I do however suggest that you read other sources of material and hopefully you will come to the realisation that the environmentalist organizations (not individual people, just the parent organizations) really don't care about the environment. They care about power and how to concentrate it in the hands of those they like.

That's all really sweet.... but, what mention have I made of any environmental groups or legislation or politics at all? Have I said that I support any environmental group?

Are you capable of carrying on a conversation with me? ME? I am not California or an environmental group. I am not advocating any plan or action or law. I am simply demonstrating that those who would tell you that man hasn't the capacity to affect his environment aren't honest brokers in the conversation. Or they are ignorant. In any case, we don't consider them in the rational conversation.

We affect our environment. Yes, we poison wells. We put various smoke and gases in the air. We crap a lot. Let's not forget how sensitive we are to our own shit. It's fairly dangerous stuff that has killed a lot of people. Just dealing with shit is a big issue. And that is part of our affect on our environment. You can't put so many people so close together until we used our knowledge to figure out how to get rid of the shit. It was a sort of population density control all it's own. If we hadn't used the knowledge to run all these pipes and direct shit around and dispose of it, what do you think the streets of New York or Atlanta would be like? There simply wouldn't be like they are. You couldn't have 200,000 people shitting and tossing it out in the street.

We use knowledge to take care of environmental problems that are detrimental to us. Always have. Plumbers were yesterdays radical environmentalist with all their fancy pipes and flush toilets and such. Scared of a little shit.

The very terminology you use exposes you for what you are. It's a shame you are too blind to see that. I will be very happy to have a real scientific discussion with you on any subject you choose. Just be prepared for some real work on your part.

 

[The T]

Wrong again. I see mans damage every day. My whole life has been devoted to the repair of that damage. I am now retired but for over 35 years that was my goal.

The water tables are sinking due to misues of water plain and simple. Golf courses should not be planted in a desert. Phoenix AZ should not have the population it is attempting to support in a desert. It is simply foolish to do that sort of thing and the environmental damage is great IN THOSE AREAS.

However, you all like to play numbers games till you are actually presented with those numbers and they don't support you. Environmentalists have been actively engaged in programs that do far more damage to the environment than the problems they are supposedly trying to solve. I'll use your water example as a case in point. The California Air Resources Board mandated that MTBE be used as an oxygenate in gasoline to clean the air. It did that job well, however they ignored significant warnings as to MTBE's known carcinogenic problems, its caustic nature and of course its known poisonous qualities.

After 10 years that regularly saw cars bursting into flames (nearly every day) as their fuel systems were destroyed by the MTBE, and the constant illnesses caused by it to sensitive people, they were finally forced to remove it after it was found to have poisoned the water wells throughout the state. Thousands of wells are no longer usable becaue of environmentalists refusal to listen to scientific fact.

I can go on and on about how environmentalists are causing more damage than the problems they are supposedly trying to fix but i doubt you would pay attention to that. You clearly have a fixed mind set. I do however suggest that you read other sources of material and hopefully you will come to the realisation that the environmentalist organizations (not individual people, just the parent organizations) really don't care about the environment. They care about power and how to concentrate it in the hands of those they like.

That's all really sweet.... but, what mention have I made of any environmental groups or legislation or politics at all? Have I said that I support any environmental group?

Are you capable of carrying on a conversation with me? ME? I am not California or an environmental group. I am not advocating any plan or action or law. I am simply demonstrating that those who would tell you that man hasn't the capacity to affect his environment aren't honest brokers in the conversation. Or they are ignorant. In any case, we don't consider them in the rational conversation.

We affect our environment. Yes, we poison wells. We put various smoke and gases in the air. We crap a lot. Let's not forget how sensitive we are to our own shit. It's fairly dangerous stuff that has killed a lot of people. Just dealing with shit is a big issue. And that is part of our affect on our environment. You can't put so many people so close together until we used our knowledge to figure out how to get rid of the shit. It was a sort of population density control all it's own. If we hadn't used the knowledge to run all these pipes and direct shit around and dispose of it, what do you think the streets of New York or Atlanta would be like? There simply wouldn't be like they are. You couldn't have 200,000 people shitting and tossing it out in the street.

We use knowledge to take care of environmental problems that are detrimental to us. Always have. Plumbers were yesterdays radical environmentalist with all their fancy pipes and flush toilets and such. Scared of a little shit.

The very terminology you use exposes you for what you are. It's a shame you are too blind to see that. I will be very happy to have a real scientific discussion with you on any subject you choose. Just be prepared for some real work on your part.

The poster also fails to have an understanding that despite what man does? The earth in of itself will correct naturally in due course.

We are merely as fleas on an elephant's backin the grand scheme.

And hopefully the poster isn't mingling pollution into the mix which is an entirely different subject.

 

[Katzndogz]

Global Warming is the hoax that wouldn't die. Even when the very basis of how it was perpetrated was detailed, it's still believed. It can be chalked up to a need to believe, like some people need to believe that professional wrestling is real.

 

[Sweet Willy]

When you resort to using the term FOOLS to describe anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. I am a scientist. A real scientist. I have been involved in the Earth Sciences since probably before you were born. I have seen first hand the damage man causes. You look at pictures and jump to your conclusins without having the slightest knowledge of what is actually happening.

That's the difference. i do.

"Damage we have wrought"?

What are you talking about? I haven't said that, you made that up.

These are pictures. I have made no leaps or drawn any conclusions. Either you can see fires and smoke and the masses of electric lights or you can't. There is no attempt to venture into scientific hypothesis. I draw no conclusions. I look at the pictures and I see what they are.

There is no need for a great leap of faith or to accept any conclusion.

 

[Sweet Willy]

That's all really sweet.... but, what mention have I made of any environmental groups or legislation or politics at all? Have I said that I support any environmental group?

Are you capable of carrying on a conversation with me? ME? I am not California or an environmental group. I am not advocating any plan or action or law. I am simply demonstrating that those who would tell you that man hasn't the capacity to affect his environment aren't honest brokers in the conversation. Or they are ignorant. In any case, we don't consider them in the rational conversation.

We affect our environment. Yes, we poison wells. We put various smoke and gases in the air. We crap a lot. Let's not forget how sensitive we are to our own shit. It's fairly dangerous stuff that has killed a lot of people. Just dealing with shit is a big issue. And that is part of our affect on our environment. You can't put so many people so close together until we used our knowledge to figure out how to get rid of the shit. It was a sort of population density control all it's own. If we hadn't used the knowledge to run all these pipes and direct shit around and dispose of it, what do you think the streets of New York or Atlanta would be like? There simply wouldn't be like they are. You couldn't have 200,000 people shitting and tossing it out in the street.

We use knowledge to take care of environmental problems that are detrimental to us. Always have. Plumbers were yesterdays radical environmentalist with all their fancy pipes and flush toilets and such. Scared of a little shit.

The very terminology you use exposes you for what you are. It's a shame you are too blind to see that. I will be very happy to have a real scientific discussion with you on any subject you choose. Just be prepared for some real work on your part.

The poster also fails to have an understanding that despite what man does? The earth in of itself will correct naturally in due course.

We are merely as fleas on an elephant's backin the grand scheme.

And hopefully the poster isn't mingling pollution into the mix which is an entirely different subject.

And why do you say that I do not accept that the Earth will correct itself? I haven't said that. What reason do you have to put those words into my mouth.

I posted a few pictures. You can see them, or you can't. This is simple.

 

[Meister]

The very terminology you use exposes you for what you are. It's a shame you are too blind to see that. I will be very happy to have a real scientific discussion with you on any subject you choose. Just be prepared for some real work on your part.

The poster also fails to have an understanding that despite what man does? The earth in of itself will correct naturally in due course.

We are merely as fleas on an elephant's backin the grand scheme.

And hopefully the poster isn't mingling pollution into the mix which is an entirely different subject.

And why do you say that I do not accept that the Earth will correct itself? I haven't said that. What reason do you have to put those words into my mouth.

I posted a few pictures. You can see them, or you can't. This is simple.

The way you have been posting, it sure doesn't look like you're a fence sitter, Willy

 

[The T]

The very terminology you use exposes you for what you are. It's a shame you are too blind to see that. I will be very happy to have a real scientific discussion with you on any subject you choose. Just be prepared for some real work on your part.

The poster also fails to have an understanding that despite what man does? The earth in of itself will correct naturally in due course.

We are merely as fleas on an elephant's backin the grand scheme.

And hopefully the poster isn't mingling pollution into the mix which is an entirely different subject.

And why do you say that I do not accept that the Earth will correct itself? I haven't said that. What reason do you have to put those words into my mouth.

I posted a few pictures. You can see them, or you can't. This is simple.

Your picture of North America lit up means ZILCH.

 

[Cowman]

I believe the science of climate change and global warming is pretty solid. But I've been called a liberal or democrat/progressive on that alone.

Now, I never said I think Al Gore's carbon trading scam or whatever was the best solution, just that I believe the science....

So why is this belief treated as if reflects on my political leanings one way or another by so many others?

Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth. It is a Temple. You are not going to go wrong in maintaining it. Hi-Jacking the cause for Power and Control is another matter.

Why take care of it? Jesus is coming back anyway.

 

[westwall]

When you resort to using the term FOOLS to describe anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. I am a scientist. A real scientist. I have been involved in the Earth Sciences since probably before you were born. I have seen first hand the damage man causes. You look at pictures and jump to your conclusins without having the slightest knowledge of what is actually happening.

That's the difference. i do.

"Damage we have wrought"?

What are you talking about? I haven't said that, you made that up.

These are pictures. I have made no leaps or drawn any conclusions. Either you can see fires and smoke and the masses of electric lights or you can't. There is no attempt to venture into scientific hypothesis. I draw no conclusions. I look at the pictures and I see what they are.

There is no need for a great leap of faith or to accept any conclusion.

Your protestations of innocense do you no service. Just admit that you have a preconceived idea and think man is a bad guy. From there you can begin to learn something about the real world. Right now you have an emotional view of the world. You however don't have a scientific view of the world.

You make generalistic claims that are part and parcel of every AGW supporters lexicon. Your claim of neutrality is false. You prove that with every word you type. I honestly don't care what your politics are, I only care about the world in general. The AGW supporters honestly don't care about the world. They only care about power and the accumulation of wealth.

 

[The T]

I believe the science of climate change and global warming is pretty solid. But I've been called a liberal or democrat/progressive on that alone.

Now, I never said I think Al Gore's carbon trading scam or whatever was the best solution, just that I believe the science....

So why is this belief treated as if reflects on my political leanings one way or another by so many others?

Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth. It is a Temple. You are not going to go wrong in maintaining it. Hi-Jacking the cause for Power and Control is another matter.

Why take care of it? Jesus is coming back anyway.

Is he? You sure about that are ya?

 

[westwall]

I believe the science of climate change and global warming is pretty solid. But I've been called a liberal or democrat/progressive on that alone.

Now, I never said I think Al Gore's carbon trading scam or whatever was the best solution, just that I believe the science....

So why is this belief treated as if reflects on my political leanings one way or another by so many others?

Be Fruitful, Multiply, Replenish the Earth. It is a Temple. You are not going to go wrong in maintaining it. Hi-Jacking the cause for Power and Control is another matter.

Why take care of it? Jesus is coming back anyway.

Because we should. You cows...er clowns don't give a rats ass about it. You just want to bludgeon people into a socialist state. Look at how the socialists fucked up their environments and you will get an idea of why we want to prevent that.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Again, human shit is a fine example. Left for the Earth to correct on it's own, the Earth will. The Earth has little problem with shit. Humans on the other hand, have a bit of a problem when too many humans are shitting in the same water. People get sick and die.

Does this little group of posters here reject sewage treatment? I mean... do you guys apply the "never mind, the Earth will take care of it" to shit? Or is it just other select human activities your are reluctant to accept as detrimental to human existence? Where do you guys draw the line of taking care of our own impact? Terracing and other erosion control techniques? Do you guys believe in that science? I mean, the Earth will take care of that too. Top soil washed into the bottom of the river doesn't really bother the Earth. How about swine and cattle vaccinations? Human vaccinations? How deep is this "let the earth fix it" idea? At what point do we stop trying to understand our world and use knowledge to make it better?

And save the "Earth" baloney. The Earth will destroy us long be we destroy it. I am not a "save Earth" type.

But you guys hard on for the environmentalist seems to be distorting your views of reality.

 

[Sweet Willy]

When you resort to using the term FOOLS to describe anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. I am a scientist. A real scientist. I have been involved in the Earth Sciences since probably before you were born. I have seen first hand the damage man causes. You look at pictures and jump to your conclusins without having the slightest knowledge of what is actually happening.

That's the difference. i do.

"Damage we have wrought"?

What are you talking about? I haven't said that, you made that up.

These are pictures. I have made no leaps or drawn any conclusions. Either you can see fires and smoke and the masses of electric lights or you can't. There is no attempt to venture into scientific hypothesis. I draw no conclusions. I look at the pictures and I see what they are.

There is no need for a great leap of faith or to accept any conclusion.

Your protestations of innocense do you no service. Just admit that you have a preconceived idea and think man is a bad guy. From there you can begin to learn something about the real world. Right now you have an emotional view of the world. You however don't have a scientific view of the world.

You make generalistic claims that are part and parcel of every AGW supporters lexicon. Your claim of neutrality is false. You prove that with every word you type. I honestly don't care what your politics are, I only care about the world in general. The AGW supporters honestly don't care about the world. They only care about power and the accumulation of wealth.

You couldn't be farther off.

I tend not to take science lesson from strangers on the internet.

Thanks all the same.

 

[Sweet Willy]

anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. ....



........Your protestations of innocense do you no service.

My protestations only serve to say again, you LIED. I never said what you quoted. I never said anything close to that, you made that up.

What do you call that science? Liars Anatomy?

 

[westwall]

Again, human shit is a fine example. Left for the Earth to correct on it's own, the Earth will. The Earth has little problem with shit. Humans on the other hand, have a bit of a problem when too many humans are shitting in the same water. People get sick and die.

Does this little group of posters here reject sewage treatment? I mean... do you guys apply the "never mind, the Earth will take care of it" to shit? Or is it just other select human activities your are reluctant to accept as detrimental to human existence? Where do you guys draw the line of taking care of our own impact? Terracing and other erosion control techniques? Do you guys believe in that science? I mean, the Earth will take care of that too. Top soil washed into the bottom of the river doesn't really bother the Earth. How about swine and cattle vaccinations? Human vaccinations? How deep is this "let the earth fix it" idea? At what point do we stop trying to understand our world and use knowledge to make it better?

And save the "Earth" baloney. The Earth will destroy us long be we destroy it. I am not a "save Earth" type.

But you guys hard on for the environmentalist seems to be distorting your views of reality.

Hyperbole thy name is environmentalism. If you truly cared about human life you would not engage in the outright banning of chemicals that kill mosquitos. Since DDT alone was banned around 60 MILLION people have died of malaria who would otherwise not have.

The only people with a distorted view of the world are your hard core environmentalists. they have caused more damge to the environment than all of the hunters on the planet combined. In fact most of the endangered species of the planet have been saved not by environmentalists but by CONSERVATIONISTS who are made up of people who actually use the environment.

I was an original member of Greenpeace and sailed on the first Rainbow Warrior. Back then it was pure conservationism. I left when they began to care more about politics than the environment.

 

[westwall]

anyone who can't SEE the damage "we have wrought" you have stated your position quite clearly. ....



........Your protestations of innocense do you no service.

My protestations only serve to say again, you LIED. I never said what you quoted. I never said anything close to that, you made that up.

What do you call that science? Liars Anatomy?

Ah yes, the ever popular "you lied" meme. No, I didn't. I read between the lines and told you what your carefully selected code words mean in the real world. What are you 10? You need to get out more and learn something about what you speak. You are far, far out of your depth on this matter. And that is sad.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ascribe your ignorance to simple lack of knowledge and not a willful ignorance. Go out and read some other stuff on the environment than what you have been getting in your high school or community college classes. Hit a good library. READ!