Why do some take belief in Global Warming as a political issue?

[Sweet Willy]

Fires causes heat and smoke.

And heat escapes into space.
So what?

So if it escapes that means we never made it?

If it escapes, it's no longer warming the planet.

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

 

[whitehall]

I believe the science of climate change and global warming is pretty solid. But I've been called a liberal or democrat/progressive on that alone.

Now, I never said I think Al Gore's carbon trading scam or whatever was the best solution, just that I believe the science....

So why is this belief treated as if reflects on my political leanings one way or another by so many others?

You are late 2 the party. Man made global warming by itself is just a theory. When you use it to try to change the social fabric of the Country and engage in an extortion scheme where the US's alleged decadent use of fossil fuels is responsible for climate disasters you have what? A....freaking....political....issue.

 

[westwall]

Let's put some pictures back up.

No scientific claims, no warnings that you should listen to me because " I am a scientist".

No special books you should go read, no long list of scientist to ignore.... just a few pictures to look at.

No politics, no suggestion of regulation. Just some pictures.

If you can look at pictures of the Earth, from space, and see smoke from man made fires cover nearly an entire continent, you can easily see that man can directly influence his environment.

If you can see the lights from a massive network of power lines and power plants, bright enough to light up the dark side of our planet, you don't need a scientist to tell you if man has the ability to influence his environment on a grand scale.

Do I care about the politics of global warming? Do I pick a side for any reason on that issue? No, I don't.

I am simply demonstrating that with three simple photographs you can eliminate a swath of ignorance that claims man hasn't the capacity to influence and change his environment on large scale, global impacts. It's evident to anyone who doesn't have a political stake in the matter that their is an absolute truth that man does affect his environment profoundly. Can he melt the ice caps? I don't know. But I do know that there was a time when the idea that we could kill every passenger pigeon, or log every tree on the continent was scoffed at just like you see the folks here scoffing. I don't deny or defend the idea of AGW. I merely recognize that we can can impact our planet, in fact, we can;t help but do so.

Thus speaketh the devout warmist. You see how I colored the word "deny" (also please note how I am using the quotation marks here) now I am placing you in the world of willful ignorance. You resort to emotion because that is all you have.

Come back some day when you actually can speak on the subject with some knowledge. Right now you are wasting all of our time because you truly don't know a bloddy thing.

I'll share a picture with you. This is North Korea at night. A environmental wasteland and looky here. It's dark at night. Just like you wish. Now look at South Korea. The average life expectancy in North Korea is one year less than in South Korea. And the quality of life is significantly less as well.

Is that really what you want?

There are only a couple points of knowledge I am speaking to.

1. We have enough man made fires burning to see them from space.

2. We have enough electric lights burning to see them from space.

3. We have enough smoke from these fires to cover vast areas of land.

There is no science and no special knowledge required to see this. Anyone can see it.

Now you're sounding like Chris. Are you his sock or are you related to him? Either way lets take each of your points in turn shall we?

75,000 wildfires occur every year in the US alone. Care to make a guess as to whether they are visible from space? BTW did you know you can see tornados on Mars from space too? In other words Big Deal.

We can see many things from space. Hell, in Death Valley, you can see someone light a match from 30 miles away. With your naked eye. So what's your point?

We have wildfires burning every second of every day. Man had no impact on them at all. Care to calculate how many more there are than fires caused by man? I will let you know it is orders of magnitude.

In other words all you have is some pretty pictures but you know nothing about what if any impact they may have. Got ya. Typical lib wanting to control something but not really understanding any of the implications of that control. You probably liked MTBE in your gas too huh.

 

[westwall]

I'll share a picture with you. This is North Korea at night. A environmental wasteland and looky here. It's dark at night. Just like you wish. Now look at South Korea. The average life expectancy in North Korea is one year less than in South Korea. And the quality of life is significantly less as well.

Is that really what you want?

An environmental waste land? Are you acknowledging mans ability to lay waste to his environment? "look what we have wrought!" You seem to say.

At any rate, what makes you correlate electric lights with these things? Do you think I mean that lights poison the air or water or something?

The lights only demonstrate the scale of man's ability to change his environment.

Now... reread that last sentence... because I know what you read was something like "turning on the bathroom light kills spotted owls..." But that's not what I said, is it?

We have learned to control some very impressive aspects of our living environment. We have turned darkness to light on a near unimaginable scale... until we just look at the picture. We are capable of that.

To think that a species capable of that is not capable of creating other impacts of similar scale is not the rational belief of a "scientist'.

Absolutely. What, were you not paying attention? I merely pointed that out because here is your perfect country. It's dark at night, quality of life sucks (unless you consider a violent dictator OK) and it's STILL AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER! In other words man can screw things up quite nicle at the local level and looky here is a ideal country (by your stated criteria) and it SUCKS!

Congrats you may actually be learning something.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I'll share a picture with you. This is North Korea at night. A environmental wasteland and looky here. It's dark at night. Just like you wish. Now look at South Korea. The average life expectancy in North Korea is one year less than in South Korea. And the quality of life is significantly less as well.

Is that really what you want?

I think this quote is a pretty good one. You say that N. Korea is an "environmental wasteland"

So, again, you do seem to acknowledge that man is capable of laying waste to his environment. Comparing activities in S.America to N. Korea, would you consider S. America an environmental waste land?

Or do you reserve your negative environmental assessments for places your find politically distasteful?

Are there other "environmental wastelands" you can tell us about?

 

[Sweet Willy]

I'll share a picture with you. This is North Korea at night. A environmental wasteland and looky here. It's dark at night. Just like you wish. Now look at South Korea. The average life expectancy in North Korea is one year less than in South Korea. And the quality of life is significantly less as well.

Is that really what you want?

An environmental waste land? Are you acknowledging mans ability to lay waste to his environment? "look what we have wrought!" You seem to say.

At any rate, what makes you correlate electric lights with these things? Do you think I mean that lights poison the air or water or something?

The lights only demonstrate the scale of man's ability to change his environment.

Now... reread that last sentence... because I know what you read was something like "turning on the bathroom light kills spotted owls..." But that's not what I said, is it?

We have learned to control some very impressive aspects of our living environment. We have turned darkness to light on a near unimaginable scale... until we just look at the picture. We are capable of that.

To think that a species capable of that is not capable of creating other impacts of similar scale is not the rational belief of a "scientist'.

Absolutely. What, were you not paying attention? I merely pointed that out because here is your perfect country. It's dark at night, quality of life sucks (unless you consider a violent dictator OK) and it's STILL AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER! In other words man can screw things up quite nicle at the local level and looky here is a ideal country (by your stated criteria) and it SUCKS!

Congrats you may actually be learning something.

I haven't stated any criteria. This entire "lights = bad, dark = good" is something you dreamed up. I've said no such thing.

 

[bripat9643]

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

Whenever I fart it warms the planet, and whenever I spit it raises sea level.

 

[daveman]

Again, human shit is a fine example. Left for the Earth to correct on it's own, the Earth will. The Earth has little problem with shit. Humans on the other hand, have a bit of a problem when too many humans are shitting in the same water. People get sick and die.

Does this little group of posters here reject sewage treatment? I mean... do you guys apply the "never mind, the Earth will take care of it" to shit? Or is it just other select human activities your are reluctant to accept as detrimental to human existence? Where do you guys draw the line of taking care of our own impact? Terracing and other erosion control techniques? Do you guys believe in that science? I mean, the Earth will take care of that too. Top soil washed into the bottom of the river doesn't really bother the Earth. How about swine and cattle vaccinations? Human vaccinations? How deep is this "let the earth fix it" idea? At what point do we stop trying to understand our world and use knowledge to make it better?

And save the "Earth" baloney. The Earth will destroy us long be we destroy it. I am not a "save Earth" type.

But you guys hard on for the environmentalist seems to be distorting your views of reality.

"Doesn't believe AGW nonsense" =/= "Wants to dump raw sewage in the town well".

There's some reality for you.

No, that isn't anything near what I have suggested. I have just asked if you folks believe in treating sewage?

Yes, we do. You can stop blathering now.

 

[daveman]

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

Whenever I fart it warms the planet, and whenever I spit it raises sea level.

You selfish bastard. You should send money to The Goracle to atone for your sins.

 

[Sweet Willy]

"Doesn't believe AGW nonsense" =/= "Wants to dump raw sewage in the town well".

There's some reality for you.

No, that isn't anything near what I have suggested. I have just asked if you folks believe in treating sewage?

Yes, we do. You can stop blathering now.

Ok. Can you explain why you think it's a good idea to treat sewage?

 

[Old Rocks]

You would be wrong on your assumption. Take a look at a few of the sceptics sites and then come back and talk to us about the "settled science".


Here is a little segement from climateaudit...


"Unfortunately, IPCC seems far more concerned about secrecy than in requiring its contributors to archive data. I received another request to remove discussion of IPCC draft reports. On this issue, David Appell and I are in full agreement – see David Appell’s collection of ZOD chapters here. Read More »"

Why, oh why, if the science is so solid would anybody need or want to hide it?


Climate Depot

Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change

Climate Audit

Odd. Skeptics sites by undegreed ex-TV weathermen carry such weight in scientific debates. How about taking a look at peer reviewed articles from real scientific journals.

AGW Observer

The American Geophysical Union has more scientists involved in climate research than any other scientific society in the world. So what is their position on Anthropogenic Global Warming?


AGU Position Statement: Human Impacts on Climate

AGU Position Statement

Human Impacts on Climate

Adopted by Council December 2003
Revised and Reaffirmed December 2007

The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance ......

Clearly. LOL!

And clearly you are an idiotic willfully ignorant fool.

 

[daveman]

No, that isn't anything near what I have suggested. I have just asked if you folks believe in treating sewage?

Yes, we do. You can stop blathering now.

Ok. Can you explain why you think it's a good idea to treat sewage?

I said you can stop blathering now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So if it escapes that means we never made it?

If it escapes, it's no longer warming the planet.

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

Did heat warm the planet? LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Odd. Skeptics sites by undegreed ex-TV weathermen carry such weight in scientific debates. How about taking a look at peer reviewed articles from real scientific journals.

AGW Observer

The American Geophysical Union has more scientists involved in climate research than any other scientific society in the world. So what is their position on Anthropogenic Global Warming?


AGU Position Statement: Human Impacts on Climate

AGU Position Statement

Human Impacts on Climate

Adopted by Council December 2003
Revised and Reaffirmed December 2007

The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance ......

Clearly. LOL!

And clearly you are an idiotic willfully ignorant fool.

Quick, let's waste a trillion dollars on green energy!

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yes, we do. You can stop blathering now.

Ok. Can you explain why you think it's a good idea to treat sewage?

I said you can stop blathering now.

Just asking a question, not blathering.

Why do you think treating sewage is a good idea?

 

[Sweet Willy]

If it escapes, it's no longer warming the planet.

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

Did heat warm the planet? LOL!

I'm asking you... when we have a fire, you say it escapes into space. Is there any effect here from that heat before it escapes?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ok. So, it did warm the planet while it was here?

Did heat warm the planet? LOL!

I'm asking you... when we have a fire, you say it escapes into space. Is there any effect here from that heat before it escapes?

Yes, fire makes things hot in the area of the fire.
I use that fact to heat my dinner. It's very useful.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Did heat warm the planet? LOL!

I'm asking you... when we have a fire, you say it escapes into space. Is there any effect here from that heat before it escapes?

Yes, fire makes things hot in the area of the fire.
I use that fact to heat my dinner. It's very useful.

Excellent.

You do then understand that in the same area of fire we can make trees and such disappear?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm asking you... when we have a fire, you say it escapes into space. Is there any effect here from that heat before it escapes?

Yes, fire makes things hot in the area of the fire.
I use that fact to heat my dinner. It's very useful.

Excellent.

You do then understand that in the same area of fire we can make trees and such disappear?

Yes, when parts of the Amazon rainforest are burned, the trees that burn disappear.
When widfires occur, the grass and brush that burn also disappear.
Is this some sort of secret you imagine you've discovered?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yes, fire makes things hot in the area of the fire.
I use that fact to heat my dinner. It's very useful.

Excellent.

You do then understand that in the same area of fire we can make trees and such disappear?

Yes, when parts of the Amazon rainforest are burned, the trees that burn disappear.
When widfires occur, the grass and brush that burn also disappear.
Is this some sort of secret you imagine you've discovered?

So you understand fire and heat and burning forest. That's good.

That's all I was asking, if you understood man's use of fire to create heat.

It's pretty basic stuff, isn't it?