Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century?

[yiostheoy]

I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

Here's what people like you don't get... We DO give a shit about things!

The problem is, "WE" are 340,000,000,000 people across millions of square miles and we all "give a shit" about different things to different degrees and according to differing priorities depending on different circumstances. Do you understand this? We can't ALL have everything we idealistically want... it's not possible. Can you comprehend why that is?

Now.... Our framers were geniuses. They created a unique system of self-governing so that The People could have a powerful unionization to handle certain priorities we all benefit from... like a national defense. At the same time... follow me closely here... limited to a specific set of things that are universal to us all... not some...not most... but all. So this doesn't include things like your health care insurance or how much pay you can get. Those are things that vary from person to person.

That doesn't mean we don't care about things, there is still a mechanism for us to address the things that are important to us as individuals. We do these sorts of things through our states, where we live with other people who are likely in our same boat. People in Utah have different ideals and priorities than people in New York. Things that are important to the people in Alabama may be totally unimportant to the people in California. So this system that allows us to have state governments to address lesser universal issues is what the framers established. And within a state, you also have county and municipal governments who can address even more things you "give a shit" about but perhaps your state is less concerned with.

You see... the genius of this system is, MOST people are ensured happiness and individual liberty. It is through this brilliant system our happy and free people built the greatest and most powerful nation that ever existed. Some will inevitably chime in here... oh yeah, what about the SLAVES? Okay... it was our system and our fundamental principles which ultimately prevailed in ending slavery. It took a while, we had to fight a bloody war, but eventually the principles of liberty prevailed.

Too bad the Founding Freemasons just kicked the can of slavery down the road for Lincoln and Grant to rectify later.

 

[Boss]

Wowzer... I had no idea where Mews was going with his OP by the title...

I was thinking, you know, he may have a point here...

Why do so many people want to ban internal combustion engines or industry and throw us back into the 18th century over some pseudo-science intended to redistribute wealth?

Or, why do so many people pretend that we live in a time before modern medicine and medical science so they can say a living human organism in the state of being isn't a "person" until it magically pops out of the mother at childbirth?

Why do so many people live with an 18th century mindset about Socialism being the latest greatest thing man has ever thought up when we have the history of 150 million deaths in the 20th century to show for it?

You can imagine my disappointment to find it's just another hysterical rant from Mews.

"Socialism" however was born in the 20th Century.

Slight anachronism there, Sport.

Nope. It actually started in the 19th century formally as "Socialism" but the ideas were floating around back in the 18th century when we founded this nation. They had different terms for it, but it's what would eventually become Socialism. That's why I used the term "latest greatest thing" ...it was the "innovative modern thinking" of the time and even some of our founding fathers were interested in it. They simply chose to go a different direction, toward freedom of the individual.

 

[Boss]

Too bad the Founding Freemasons just kicked the can of slavery down the road for Lincoln and Grant to rectify later.

When you look at this pragmatically and check your modern emotions at the door... an objective evaluation concludes they didn't really have much of a choice. They DID end the slave trade. They simply couldn't BAN slavery because their entire economy was agricultural and depended greatly on slave labor. In this regard, just the banning of slave trade was huge. But at the time, that's really as far as they could go. That said, they were brilliant enough to put the language into the Constitution to enable abolition when society was ready to take that step.

Frederick Douglass said that he once loathed the U.S. Constitution because he thought it was written by and for slave owners... but after studying it, he changed his opinion and realized the sheer brilliance of it's wording and foundation.

 

[yiostheoy]

Wowzer... I had no idea where Mews was going with his OP by the title...

I was thinking, you know, he may have a point here...

Why do so many people want to ban internal combustion engines or industry and throw us back into the 18th century over some pseudo-science intended to redistribute wealth?

Or, why do so many people pretend that we live in a time before modern medicine and medical science so they can say a living human organism in the state of being isn't a "person" until it magically pops out of the mother at childbirth?

Why do so many people live with an 18th century mindset about Socialism being the latest greatest thing man has ever thought up when we have the history of 150 million deaths in the 20th century to show for it?

You can imagine my disappointment to find it's just another hysterical rant from Mews.

"Socialism" however was born in the 20th Century.

Slight anachronism there, Sport.

Nope. It actually started in the 19th century formally as "Socialism" but the ideas were floating around back in the 18th century when we founded this nation. They had different terms for it, but it's what would eventually become Socialism. That's why I used the term "latest greatest thing" ...it was the "innovative modern thinking" of the time and even some of our founding fathers were interested in it. They simply chose to go a different direction, toward freedom of the individual.

Sure, Karl Marx wrote about it in the 1800's but nobody implemented it until the Russians did in 1917.

 

[Boss]

Sure, Karl Marx wrote about it in the 1800's but nobody implemented it until the Russians did in 1917.

Again, Karl Marx wrote about ideas that had been floating around for a century before him. Indeed, philosophers were talking about it during our founding. As I said, they called it different things. The ideas were there, in fact, some of them can be traced back to antiquity.

 

[mudwhistle]

What's wrong with the 18th Century?

 

[jknowgood]

Liberalism has done so much in the past 60 years. I mean education, welfare, and anything else it has touched. Just look at Detroit and Chicago.

Liberalism began in Paris in 1789.

And it has ruined America, look at the black family. Once was a strong unit, ruined by welfare. Just one example.

 

[meaner gene]

They had different terms for it, but it's what would eventually become Socialism. That's why I used the term "latest greatest thing" ...it was the "innovative modern thinking" of the time and even some of our founding fathers were interested in it. They simply chose to go a different direction, toward freedom of the individual.

Freedom of the individual? Ironic when you consider they incorporated the continuation of slavery into the constitution.

 

[meaner gene]

Frederick Douglass said that he once loathed the U.S. Constitution because he thought it was written by and for slave owners... but after studying it, he changed his opinion and realized the sheer brilliance of it's wording and foundation.

They also added the 13th amendment.

 

[Boss]

They had different terms for it, but it's what would eventually become Socialism. That's why I used the term "latest greatest thing" ...it was the "innovative modern thinking" of the time and even some of our founding fathers were interested in it. They simply chose to go a different direction, toward freedom of the individual.

Freedom of the individual? Ironic when you consider they incorporated the continuation of slavery into the constitution.

And I addressed this. See post #20.

 

[meaner gene]

What's wrong with the 18th Century?

Slavery and Autocracy

 

[mudwhistle]

What's wrong with the 18th Century?

Slavery and Autocracy

Life sucks.
Funny, but that stuff still exists today in the Middle East.
Why are you so bent out of shape for something that happened more than a few years before you were born?

 

[meaner gene]

Some will inevitably chime in here... oh yeah, what about the SLAVES? Okay... it was our system and our fundamental principles which ultimately prevailed in ending slavery. It took a while, we had to fight a bloody war, but eventually the principles of liberty prevailed.

The principles of liberty were thwarted by the constitution. It enshrined slavery, 3/5ths compromise, prohibition of legislating against slavery for 12 years, even the electoral college that gave small states, collectively more power than big states, so the big states couldn't legislate freedom.

 

[meaner gene]

Why are you so bent out of shape for something that happened more than a few years before you were born?

That it happened a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away is nothing but an excuse, for mans inhumanity to man.

 

[mudwhistle]

Why are you so bent out of shape for something that happened more than a few years before you were born?

That it happened a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away is nothing but an excuse, for mans inhumanity to man.

The point should be that we took steps to end the practice. Dwelling on something that ended 150 years ago is pointless.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

/---- We weren't a nation until the last quarter of the 18th century you doofus. We had no money to invest in anything. You moron.

 

[meaner gene]

The point should be that we took steps to end the practice. Dwelling on something that ended 150 years ago is pointless.

The point is we took steps to ensure slavery's continued existance, before we took steps to end it. Call it the John Kerry paying to rebuild Iraq option.

 

[miketx]

Why do so many people on this board wish to return to the 18th century? That was a time when we as a nation committed very little towards investment within our borders, very little laws or rules to protect the workers, life was far harder then today and I honestly believe the world of the time was so alien to the concepts of modern 20th and 21st century that America would be transformed into a very poor, backwards and violent society if we attempted it. It would be a outright suicide of the most advance nation on earth in many measures and a true lost to all of humanity.

Government expanded because it had too, just like every other modern state due to civilized people wanting infrastructure, wanting education for their children, clean air, water and food and a ever better standard of living. For one to argue that the 18th century was superior is the height of insanity within my mind, but that is exactly what extreme conservatism is bitching for. So you'd rather put your trust in the same corporations that pollute the environment in india then to have the government fine the bastards and give them a good reason to stop??? So you'd rather businesses have the power to refuse payment to work or set up sweat shops while you smile and say get a job. WTF is wrong with you? I say this because it could be you or your children that has little choice for employment! Why make life worse for yourself?


I could keep going on down the list on why the concepts of the 18th century would be a nightmare to the American people but I'll stop here. Lets just say that it isn't preferable and I really wish some people would see the benefits in living within a society that gives a shit about things.

Why do so many regressives make up so much garbage? No one wants to return to the 18th century. This is just more made up crap.

 

[meaner gene]

. Dwelling on something that ended 150 years ago is pointless.

You don't read the bible do you?

 

[meaner gene]

Why do so many regressives make up so much garbage? No one wants to return to the 18th century. This is just more made up crap.

Where do you think Antonin Scalia, and now Neil Gorsuch have their judicial philosophy rooted in?