Why do so many people deny climate change

[PMZ]

Of course the real question is what is the evidence that GHGs don't absorb longwave radiation. Of course the answer is, none.

There is no question about CO2 absorbing...but absorption and emission does not equal warming. You really are clueless.

Aha, progress. Where does the emission go?

 

[PMZ]

Now IT'S TRUE that the down-IR is about 330W/m2, but that does not ADD to the heat energy at the surface because your "mentor midget" here has neglected to tell you that at the SAME TIME --- 400W/m2 is LEAVING the surface. A little radiative complex subtraction tells you that the NET FLOW is UP.. About 70W/m2 towards the sky. That's the prime "cooling rate" of the planet... Had the 333 back radiation NOT EXISTED, you'd be a fudgesickle right now. So there are no eggs boiling, frying or being scrambled.

There is no 333 backradiation...you are not freezing because you live under a column of air that is miles high....the heat of compression explains the temperature on earth, not a fictitious greenhouse effect.

!!! Wake up !!! this is not a conspiracy.. ALL radiative IR fluxes are measured this way.. If you're gonna count photons, you need to tally them in BOTH DIRECTIONS.. All that is being done is to subtract from the sensor reading an amount equal to the Black Body radiation of the sensor itself.. Thats all that Boltzmann crap that follows here.

You aren't counting photons "dude". You don't even know whether photons exist or not. At present, they are an ad hoc explanation for a behavior of light that we can't think of any other explanation for.

Do you see a parallel here? The analogy between subtracting the "back flow" of photons from the sensor to accurately determine the INPUT flow? It's really is defined in EVERY Radiative Physics textbook.. True story. Back flow -- Back Radiation?

There is no backflow. There is either inflow if the object being measured is warmer, or outflow if the object is cooler....the rest is a calculation based on the changing temperature. Sorry that you don't understand how your instrumentation works....You would think that since you make your living with it apparently, you would take time to actually understand it.

we quit now?

Sure, anytime. You are wrong and won't see it. You believe in the magic and nothing can convince you otherwise....I only hope that I live long enough to see the collapse of post modern science back to a state of actual science so that I can have the chance to fully enjoy your humble apology. I won't gloat though...I am bigger than that.

The pressure at any altitude is pretty constant. Compressing a gas creates heat during compression but not forever. Barometric pressure is close to randomly variable. It spends as much time and effort compressing and expanding any volume of air. Compressing heats and expansion cools. Net heat = zero.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

My optic nerve is a toasty 98 degrees.
My home is a chilly 70 degrees.
Why isn't my home and all its chilly contents invisible to me?

You might consider the temperature of the original light sources relative to the temperature of your optic nerve. Knowing things is pointless if you can't apply that knowledge to the world around you.

The original source? The source of energy in the atmosphere is the Sun.
Now that energy can move toward the warmer ground, because the ground is cooler than the Sun? If you insist.

 

[itfitzme]

Now IT'S TRUE that the down-IR is about 330W/m2, but that does not ADD to the heat energy at the surface because your "mentor midget" here has neglected to tell you that at the SAME TIME --- 400W/m2 is LEAVING the surface. A little radiative complex subtraction tells you that the NET FLOW is UP.. About 70W/m2 towards the sky. That's the prime "cooling rate" of the planet... Had the 333 back radiation NOT EXISTED, you'd be a fudgesickle right now. So there are no eggs boiling, frying or being scrambled.

There is no 333 backradiation...you are not freezing because you live under a column of air that is miles high....the heat of compression explains the temperature on earth, not a fictitious greenhouse effect.




You aren't counting photons "dude". You don't even know whether photons exist or not. At present, they are an ad hoc explanation for a behavior of light that we can't think of any other explanation for.




There is no backflow. There is either inflow if the object being measured is warmer, or outflow if the object is cooler....the rest is a calculation based on the changing temperature. Sorry that you don't understand how your instrumentation works....You would think that since you make your living with it apparently, you would take time to actually understand it.

we quit now?

Sure, anytime. You are wrong and won't see it. You believe in the magic and nothing can convince you otherwise....I only hope that I live long enough to see the collapse of post modern science back to a state of actual science so that I can have the chance to fully enjoy your humble apology. I won't gloat though...I am bigger than that.

The pressure at any altitude is pretty constant. Compressing a gas creates heat during compression but not forever. Barometric pressure is close to randomly variable. It spends as much time and effort compressing and expanding any volume of air. Compressing heats and expansion cools. Net heat = zero.

As well, the temperature chamge is what causes the pressure change in the atmosphere. There is no compressor. The warmer are has a higher pressure than the colder air. This is the mechanism that drives the wind as the hot-high pressure air moves to the colder low pressure area. Because warm air also rises and cold air falls, there is a horizontal mixing of the air.

You may have noticed that as the sun goes down, the winds come from the west. The air where the sun is being heated. Where the sun has gone dowm, the air is cooling off. This pressure differential drives the wind.

In the atmosphere it is the heating and cooling that drives the pressure.

 

[itfitzme]

Okay, so we are talking about an adiabatic process where no heat is transfered to the system. Rather, work is done as
-W=mgh where m is he mass of the air, h is the change in height and g is 9.8m/s^2.

So now the question becomes one of magnitude. How much heat is added as a result of this adiabatic process?

 

[PMZ]

Okay, so we are talking about an adiabatic process where no heat is transfered to the system. Rather, work is done as
-W=mgh where m is he mass of the air, h is the change in height and g is 9.8m/s^2.

So now the question becomes one of magnitude. How much heat is added as a result of this adiabatic process?

Energy (heat) flowing among and between earth's systems (atmosphere, water, life, ice, land) results in weather. The only source of that energy is the sun. However the GHGs in the atmosphere determine how much energy leaves the systems for black, cold space as OLR.

Farting fossil fuel wastes into the atmosphere has, and continues to, restrict OLR, creating an incoming vs outgoing energy imbalance which must result in increasing earthly temperature in order to resolve and return to stable balance.

So, all of that ''extra'' energy is being dealt with in earthly systems as they move towards the elevated temperature determined by today's GHG load. Of course every day we fart more for it to deal with.

Farting GHGs can only lead to higher climactic temperatures. That leads to changed weather that, if we average over earth's surface and time, we call climate.

The weather that we built civilization around is, and will continue to, change. We will be forced to rebuild civilization, to one degree or another, to adapt.

 

[itfitzme]

I was going to pursue this adiabatic heat of compression calculation when I realized that the first law of thermo applies. In order for this potential energy, mgh, to be converted to heat, the air has to get there in the first place. The energy to raise the air comes from the initial heating done by the sun. As well, for every pound of air that falls, there is aj equal amount that has to be raised. All that the atmospheric adiabatic heat of compression is doing is recovering some or the heat that was converted into work and potential energy when the air was elevated in the first place.

The fact remains that the energy that has increased the temperature of the atmosphere came from the sun in the first place. Any adiabatic heat of compression process is only useful in detailing the processes of weather and to refine any understanding about what the balance of energy is at equilibrium.

 

[flacaltenn]

Now IT'S TRUE that the down-IR is about 330W/m2, but that does not ADD to the heat energy at the surface because your "mentor midget" here has neglected to tell you that at the SAME TIME --- 400W/m2 is LEAVING the surface. A little radiative complex subtraction tells you that the NET FLOW is UP.. About 70W/m2 towards the sky. That's the prime "cooling rate" of the planet... Had the 333 back radiation NOT EXISTED, you'd be a fudgesickle right now. So there are no eggs boiling, frying or being scrambled.

There is no 333 backradiation...you are not freezing because you live under a column of air that is miles high....the heat of compression explains the temperature on earth, not a fictitious greenhouse effect.

!!! Wake up !!! this is not a conspiracy.. ALL radiative IR fluxes are measured this way.. If you're gonna count photons, you need to tally them in BOTH DIRECTIONS.. All that is being done is to subtract from the sensor reading an amount equal to the Black Body radiation of the sensor itself.. Thats all that Boltzmann crap that follows here.

You aren't counting photons "dude". You don't even know whether photons exist or not. At present, they are an ad hoc explanation for a behavior of light that we can't think of any other explanation for.

Do you see a parallel here? The analogy between subtracting the "back flow" of photons from the sensor to accurately determine the INPUT flow? It's really is defined in EVERY Radiative Physics textbook.. True story. Back flow -- Back Radiation?

There is no backflow. There is either inflow if the object being measured is warmer, or outflow if the object is cooler....the rest is a calculation based on the changing temperature. Sorry that you don't understand how your instrumentation works....You would think that since you make your living with it apparently, you would take time to actually understand it.

we quit now?

Sure, anytime. You are wrong and won't see it. You believe in the magic and nothing can convince you otherwise....I only hope that I live long enough to see the collapse of post modern science back to a state of actual science so that I can have the chance to fully enjoy your humble apology. I won't gloat though...I am bigger than that.

Stunning.. .You are rejecting MORE AND MORE tenets of physics to protect your faulty position about ONE of them... Can't help ya.. Some of your response is too absurd..

I assure you -- my cooled photon counting cameras (available in your local hospital, research and forensic labs) do indeed count photons. ......Finding useful measurements of DNA markers for medical diagnosis and criminal investigations. I've verified that.

Photons must exist as advertised even tho there are esoteric philosophical discussions of HOW they exist.

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- instead of on a constant atmos pressure..

You're in much the same shape as the ObamaCare Website. A few simple edits and a re-compile is NOT what's required to fix you.. I'd need to fire your creators and start from scratch...

So unless you want to PRESS ME again by making silly assertions about how stupid Dr. Spencer (or others) are for defending real science ---- I won't press you..

 

[PMZ]

Now IT'S TRUE that the down-IR is about 330W/m2, but that does not ADD to the heat energy at the surface because your "mentor midget" here has neglected to tell you that at the SAME TIME --- 400W/m2 is LEAVING the surface. A little radiative complex subtraction tells you that the NET FLOW is UP.. About 70W/m2 towards the sky. That's the prime "cooling rate" of the planet... Had the 333 back radiation NOT EXISTED, you'd be a fudgesickle right now. So there are no eggs boiling, frying or being scrambled.

There is no 333 backradiation...you are not freezing because you live under a column of air that is miles high....the heat of compression explains the temperature on earth, not a fictitious greenhouse effect.




You aren't counting photons "dude". You don't even know whether photons exist or not. At present, they are an ad hoc explanation for a behavior of light that we can't think of any other explanation for.




There is no backflow. There is either inflow if the object being measured is warmer, or outflow if the object is cooler....the rest is a calculation based on the changing temperature. Sorry that you don't understand how your instrumentation works....You would think that since you make your living with it apparently, you would take time to actually understand it.

we quit now?

Sure, anytime. You are wrong and won't see it. You believe in the magic and nothing can convince you otherwise....I only hope that I live long enough to see the collapse of post modern science back to a state of actual science so that I can have the chance to fully enjoy your humble apology. I won't gloat though...I am bigger than that.

Stunning.. .You are rejecting MORE AND MORE tenets of physics to protect your faulty position about ONE of them... Can't help ya.. Some of your response is too absurd..

I assure you -- my cooled photon counting cameras (available in your local hospital, research and forensic labs) do indeed count photons. ......Finding useful measurements of DNA markers for medical diagnosis and criminal investigations. I've verified that.

Photons must exist as advertised even tho there are esoteric philosophical discussions of HOW they exist.

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- based solely on atmos pressure..

You're in much the same shape as the ObamaCare Website. A few simple edits and a re-compile is NOT what's required to fix you.. I'd need to fire your creators and start from scratch...

So unless you want to PRESS ME again by making silly assertions about how stupid Dr. Spencer (or others) are for defending real science ---- I won't press you..

Nice quick shuffle from what you apparently know something about, to something, just as apparently, you know nothing about.

The ACA exchanges.

You are reinforcing what I've always thought. Conservatives do nothing but expect perfection from those who do.

 

[flacaltenn]

There is no 333 backradiation...you are not freezing because you live under a column of air that is miles high....the heat of compression explains the temperature on earth, not a fictitious greenhouse effect.




You aren't counting photons "dude". You don't even know whether photons exist or not. At present, they are an ad hoc explanation for a behavior of light that we can't think of any other explanation for.




There is no backflow. There is either inflow if the object being measured is warmer, or outflow if the object is cooler....the rest is a calculation based on the changing temperature. Sorry that you don't understand how your instrumentation works....You would think that since you make your living with it apparently, you would take time to actually understand it.



Sure, anytime. You are wrong and won't see it. You believe in the magic and nothing can convince you otherwise....I only hope that I live long enough to see the collapse of post modern science back to a state of actual science so that I can have the chance to fully enjoy your humble apology. I won't gloat though...I am bigger than that.

Stunning.. .You are rejecting MORE AND MORE tenets of physics to protect your faulty position about ONE of them... Can't help ya.. Some of your response is too absurd..

I assure you -- my cooled photon counting cameras (available in your local hospital, research and forensic labs) do indeed count photons. ......Finding useful measurements of DNA markers for medical diagnosis and criminal investigations. I've verified that.

Photons must exist as advertised even tho there are esoteric philosophical discussions of HOW they exist.

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- based solely on atmos pressure..

You're in much the same shape as the ObamaCare Website. A few simple edits and a re-compile is NOT what's required to fix you.. I'd need to fire your creators and start from scratch...

So unless you want to PRESS ME again by making silly assertions about how stupid Dr. Spencer (or others) are for defending real science ---- I won't press you..

Nice quick shuffle from what you apparently know something about, to something, just as apparently, you know nothing about.

The ACA exchanges.

You are reinforcing what I've always thought. Conservatives do nothing but expect perfection from those who do.

I've created more websites than you have I'll wager. My partners have done complex website roll-outs. And I write about 500 lines of application level or firmware code a week on average..

That may be "nothing" in the grand scheme of ObamaCare woes --- but it does qualify me to assert that the whole sorry ass abortion wasn't TESTED, they KNEW it wasn't TESTED, and they decided to bluff... It's a disaster compared to what private industry consistently produces every year successfully on release day...

 

[itfitzme]

Stunning.. .You are rejecting MORE AND MORE tenets of physics to protect your faulty position about ONE of them... Can't help ya.. Some of your response is too absurd..

I assure you -- my cooled photon counting cameras (available in your local hospital, research and forensic labs) do indeed count photons. ......Finding useful measurements of DNA markers for medical diagnosis and criminal investigations. I've verified that.

Photons must exist as advertised even tho there are esoteric philosophical discussions of HOW they exist.

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- based solely on atmos pressure..

You're in much the same shape as the ObamaCare Website. A few simple edits and a re-compile is NOT what's required to fix you.. I'd need to fire your creators and start from scratch...

So unless you want to PRESS ME again by making silly assertions about how stupid Dr. Spencer (or others) are for defending real science ---- I won't press you..

Nice quick shuffle from what you apparently know something about, to something, just as apparently, you know nothing about.

The ACA exchanges.

You are reinforcing what I've always thought. Conservatives do nothing but expect perfection from those who do.

I've created more websites than you have I'll wager. My partners have done complex website roll-outs. And I write about 500 lines of application level or firmware code a week on average..

That may be "nothing" in the grand scheme of ObamaCare woes --- but it does qualify me to assert that the whole sorry ass abortion wasn't TESTED, they KNEW it wasn't TESTED, and they decided to bluff... It's a disaster compared to what private industry consistently produces every year successfully on release day...

Awesome, you have a survey that demonstrates the quality level? Cuz, I can guarantee that it is somewhere from 5 to 10% failure rate.

 

[PMZ]

Nice quick shuffle from what you apparently know something about, to something, just as apparently, you know nothing about.

The ACA exchanges.

You are reinforcing what I've always thought. Conservatives do nothing but expect perfection from those who do.

I've created more websites than you have I'll wager. My partners have done complex website roll-outs. And I write about 500 lines of application level or firmware code a week on average..

That may be "nothing" in the grand scheme of ObamaCare woes --- but it does qualify me to assert that the whole sorry ass abortion wasn't TESTED, they KNEW it wasn't TESTED, and they decided to bluff... It's a disaster compared to what private industry consistently produces every year successfully on release day...

Awesome, you have a survey that demonstrates the quality level? Cuz, I can guarantee that it is somewhere from 5 to 10% failure rate.

I don't know your age or interest but the Medicare site offers much the same functionality as the ACA exchange and works fine. Why? It's mature. Anybody who expects a glitch less rollout of complexity inherent in a nationwide system that created instant high demand is just not real world.

 

[SSDD]

Of course the real question is what is the evidence that GHGs don't absorb longwave radiation. Of course the answer is, none.

There is no question about CO2 absorbing...but absorption and emission does not equal warming. You really are clueless.

Aha, progress. Where does the emission go?

In the direction of more entropy just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics demands.

 

[SSDD]

The pressure at any altitude is pretty constant. Compressing a gas creates heat during compression but not forever. Barometric pressure is close to randomly variable. It spends as much time and effort compressing and expanding any volume of air. Compressing heats and expansion cools. Net heat = zero.

Compression heats, but not forever? Do you have a clue regarding anything? Take a look at saturn...travel down through the atmosphere (mostly hydrogen and helium by the way, no possibility of a fictitious greenhouse effect) till the pressure reaches between 3 and 6 bar and the temperature moves from -36F to 62F. Move on down till the pressure reaches 10 to 20 bar and the temperature moves up to above 130F. Keep on moving down into the atmosphere and you will eventually reach a region where the temperatures due to pressure are over 11,000 degrees.

 

[itfitzme]

There is no question about CO2 absorbing...but absorption and emission does not equal warming. You really are clueless.

Aha, progress. Where does the emission go?

In the direction of more entropy just as the 2nd law of thermodynamics demands.

You should stop talking about thermodynamics because you have demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You completely misunderstand the second law and

you completely ignored the first law.

Just stop already.

 

[SSDD]

In the atmosphere it is the heating and cooling that drives the pressure.

So you think the weight of the atmosphere has nothing to do with pressure? Interesting.

 

[SSDD]

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- instead of on a constant atmos pressure..

Because as we know, water vapor, unlike CO2 can actually absorb and hold heat.

 

[PMZ]

And I challenge you to explain why the desert nightime lows are LARGELY determined by the presence or absence of a GHGas.. (water vapor content) ----- instead of on a constant atmos pressure..

Because as we know, water vapor, unlike CO2 can actually absorb and hold heat.

CO2 can't absorb and hold heat?

How does dry ice sublimate?

 

[PMZ]

In the atmosphere it is the heating and cooling that drives the pressure.

So you think the weight of the atmosphere has nothing to do with pressure? Interesting.

No, constant pressure doesn't create heat. Compressing does.

 

[itfitzme]

In the atmosphere it is the heating and cooling that drives the pressure.

So you think the weight of the atmosphere has nothing to do with pressure? Interesting.

Not for the dynamic movement of air. For the movement of air, it is the heating and cooling that drives the pressure. Perhaps you have seen them on TV, the high and low pressure zones that the weatherman shows on his map.


Your heat of compression idea is complete bullshit. There is also cooling from decompression. For every pound of air that falls to a lower elevation is offset by another pound of air that rises to a higher elevation. They are equal and opposite.

Otherwise, if according to you it is the weight of the air that drives all those pressure differentials... well, explain how that works? How is it that the low and high pressure zones are caused by gravity?

So, nice try bonehead.