Why did America go to war with IRAQ ?

[Allanon68]

Found this on another site and thought it very interesting. So much so that I think some of the war supporters might find this very interesting. Its a 45mb download.

BTW, its made by americans, all credible sources (ex CIA workers/MOD employees etc.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse...whole_truth.wmv

If the link dont work just go here where I found it.

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=92859

BTW - Before you flame this is a very interesting Moveon.org video. But it has interviews with MANY Govt offiicials. And if you want to call every govt offiicial on here an outright liar then so be it. this isnt for you.

 

[GotZoom]

Found this on another site and thought it very interesting. So much so that I think some of the war supporters might find this very interesting. Its a 45mb download.

BTW, its made by americans, all credible sources (ex CIA workers/MOD employees etc.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse...whole_truth.wmv

If the link dont work just go here where I found it.

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=92859

BTW - Before you flame this is a very interesting Moveon.org video. But it has interviews with MANY Govt offiicials. And if you want to call every govt offiicial on here an outright liar then so be it. this isnt for you.

You had me interested...right up to that Moveon.org part.

 

[dilloduck]

Found this on another site and thought it very interesting. So much so that I think some of the war supporters might find this very interesting. Its a 45mb download.

BTW, its made by americans, all credible sources (ex CIA workers/MOD employees etc.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse...whole_truth.wmv

If the link dont work just go here where I found it.

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=92859

BTW - Before you flame this is a very interesting Moveon.org video. But it has interviews with MANY Govt offiicials. And if you want to call every govt offiicial on here an outright liar then so be it. this isnt for you.

Posted by someone whose signature is "I support Hezbollah" ????
I'll pass.

 

[theim]

If after 3 years, you STILL don't know why we went to war with IRaq, than you either haven't been listening and should tune in, or you just don't want to hear it.

BTW, Fahrenhiet 9/11 also had alot of govt officials.

 

[Allanon68]

You had me interested...right up to that Moveon.org part.

Thats fine.. Its just an interesting video with all kinds of CIA and Govt officials. But I find it funny when people dont want to watch something that debates their view point. Espeically when it comes from the people that are right there in the thick of it. I think I would believe them than some of the bogus articles people post here.

 

[Allanon68]

If after 3 years, you STILL don't know why we went to war with IRaq, than you either haven't been listening and should tune in, or you just don't want to hear it.

BTW, Fahrenhiet 9/11 also had alot of govt officials.

I dont think you want to hear it nor accept it. So we have the same opinons of each other. And Not ALL of fah 911 was incorrect.

 

[dilloduck]

I dont think you want to hear it nor accept it. So we have the same opinons of each other. And Not ALL of fah 911 was incorrect.

Been there done that---we've heard it all---don't accuse us of ignoring shit we've already seen and heard.

 

[theim]

I dont think you want to hear it nor accept it. So we have the same opinons of each other. And Not ALL of fah 911 was incorrect.

Right. The part where it said "Made by Micheal Moore" was certainly correct.

 

[Allanon68]

Been there done that---we've heard it all---don't accuse us of ignoring shit we've already seen and heard.

When ex govt officials and cia operatives say this war is a complete joke I don know what more proof you need. Its like believing someone else's football point of view over Bill Parcells. These guys know much more about govt than ANY of you. I would believe them over you..sorry but I think a CIA official knows more than you dillo.

 

[GotZoom]

Found this on another site and thought it very interesting. So much so that I think some of the war supporters might find this very interesting. Its a 45mb download.

BTW, its made by americans, all credible sources (ex CIA workers/MOD employees etc.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse...whole_truth.wmv

If the link dont work just go here where I found it.

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=92859

BTW - Before you flame this is a very interesting Moveon.org video. But it has interviews with MANY Govt offiicials. And if you want to call every govt offiicial on here an outright liar then so be it. this isnt for you.

Old news. Come on, catch up with the rest of us.

 

[dilloduck]

When ex govt officials and cia operatives say this war is a complete joke I don know what more proof you need. Its like believing someone else's football point of view over Bill Parcells. These guys know much more about govt than ANY of you. I would believe them over you..sorry but I think a CIA official knows more than you dillo.

And what makes you think that I am not a CIA official ?

 

[dmp]

Duplicate accounts are in violation of the rules - User Allanon was banned...so is '68. Email the administration if you'd like to discuss the original ban, and work out a deal to 'play nicely'

Oh - so was your OTHER account: Cogline
And your OTHER account: IrishEyes
And your OTHER account: Mally

 

[GotZoom]

Allanon was Mally? No kidding....

I guess people think there are no such things as IP addresses.

 

[Gunny]

Thats fine.. Its just an interesting video with all kinds of CIA and Govt officials. But I find it funny when people dont want to watch something that debates their view point. Espeically when it comes from the people that are right there in the thick of it. I think I would believe them than some of the bogus articles people post here.

Bogus articles? Such as?

Try saying it like it is .... you'll beleive ANYONE with an anti-American point of view over anyone with any common sense, logic and fact to support them.

 

[Gunny]

When ex govt officials and cia operatives say this war is a complete joke I don know what more proof you need. Its like believing someone else's football point of view over Bill Parcells. These guys know much more about govt than ANY of you. I would believe them over you..sorry but I think a CIA official knows more than you dillo.

I think an ex-CIA official with an ax to grind is going to say whatever he wants to accomplish that goal, just as you left-wingnuts do.

And speaking of someone who was "there" ...... since you want to question why we invaded Iraq ...... have you ever looked into the dead eyes of people whose misfortune it was to get in Saddam's way?

Didn't think so. Dismissed, jackass.

 

[Hobbit]

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[Hobbit]

Ok, just for sh*!s and giggles, I wasted 45mb of my valuable hard drive space downloading and watching this thing. None of the people interviewed have worked in any official capacity since 1998. It's a bunch of speculation and opinion that shouldn't carry much, if any, more weight than anything a reporter says.

 

[José]

<B>WE ARE THE LIBERATORS VS WE ARE THE INVADERS</B>

Does anyone know how many times this same topic was discussed here?

How can anyone endure the same debate being repeated over and over without ever getting to any conclusion?

It&#8217;s time for José to jump in and enlighten the kids of the United States Message Board : )

 

[José]

How can any mentally sane individual deny that democracy, freedom of press, regional autonomy is better than dictatorship, autocratic centralism etc etc??

This is either insanity or intellectual disonesty.

IMO, Allanon should admit that America clearly has, by far, the best social project for Iraq.

But the regulars of the US Message Board should also recognise that nationalist resentment is also a legitimate factor in these kinds of conflicts.

I would like to make a little thought experiment so I can get my message across more clearly:

Let&#8217;s imagine that in 1820 the US were invaded by an european foreign power in order to abolish slavery in America.

I can guarantee you all that the same people who post message after message supporting the US social experiment in Iraq would be the first ones to shout:

&#8220;This is an outrage!!! No country has the right to meddle in America&#8217;s internal affairs!!

This is an affront to US sovereignty... Only the american people can decide if and when slavery should be abolished!!!&#8221;

When their country is the invader, people tend to enphasize the superior social project presented by it.

But when their country is the invaded one, they tend to emphasise the nationalist opposition to the occupier.

This is a natural human tendency, there&#8217;s no need to be ashamed of it and deny its existence.

Which one of these two VALID tendencies will triumph in Iraq?

No one knows the answer.

History has plenty of examples where the best project introduced by a less legitimate source (a foreign power) eventually triumphed, Germany and Japan being the most obvious examples.

But it has also many examples where nationalistic opposition to the best project brought about the victory of a less desirable but homegrown social project.

When I see Vietnam&#8217;s poverty and oppresion and compare them to South Korea&#8217;s prosperity and freedom, I can&#8217;t help but think the Iraqi people would be much better off if the social project proposed by the foreign power prevailed.

But then again, if the country invaded was <B>OURS</B>, maybe we would be doing exactly what those Iraqis (and other arabs) are doing.

The problem with these political message boards is that the participants feel they are soldiers of an army in a warzone where they can&#8217;t give up a single inch of territory to the enemy army.

In other words, they are so stuck in this anachronic right/left mindset that they think they can&#8217;t agree with a single thought expressed by the opposing &#8220;army&#8221;, otherwise they will be betraying their respective &#8220;armies&#8221; and will end up losing the &#8220;war&#8221;.

How pathetic is that?

I have already expressed my personal opinion about what I consider the most desirable outcome in Iraq to be (the paragraph in red).

But regardless of our personal opinions, let&#8217;s not be childsh here.

It seems to me that there&#8217;s nothing harder than separate our desired outcome for Iraq from serious (and impartial) political analysis just like small children can&#8217;t separate their desires (sweets, ice-creams and soda) from objective reality (their parents&#8217; income).

That&#8217;s why it is so hard for people here to recognise that these two tendencies (best project brought by an illegitimate source <B>VERSUS</B> nationalistic opposition to this project) are both valid arguments to a certain extent.

 

[theim]

How can any mentally sane individual deny that democracy, freedom of press, regional autonomy is better than dictatorship, autocratic centralism etc etc??

This is either insanity or intellectual disonesty.

IMO, Allanon should admit that America clearly has, by far, the best social project for Iraq.

But the regulars of the US Message Board should also recognise that nationalist resentment is also a legitimate factor in these kinds of conflicts.

I would like to make a little thought experiment so I can get my message across more clearly:

Let’s imagine that in 1820 the US were invaded by an european foreign power in order to abolish slavery in America.

I can guarantee you all that the same people who post message after message supporting the US social experiment in Iraq would be the first ones to shout:

“This is an outrage!!! No country has the right to meddle in America’s internal affairs!!

This is an affront to US sovereignty... Only the american people can decide if and when slavery should be abolished!!!”

When their country is the invader, people tend to enphasize the superior social project presented by it.

But when their country is the invaded one, they tend to emphasise the nationalist opposition to the occupier.

This is a natural human tendency, there’s no need to be ashamed of it and deny its existence.

Which one of these two VALID tendencies will triumph in Iraq?

No one knows the answer.

History has plenty of examples where the best project introduced by a less legitimate source (a foreign power) eventually triumphed, Germany and Japan being the most obvious examples.

But it has also many examples where nationalistic opposition to the best project brought about the victory of a less desirable but homegrown social project.

When I see Vietnam’s poverty and oppresion and compare them to South Korea’s prosperity and freedom, I can’t help but think the Iraqi people would be much better off if the social project proposed by the foreign power prevailed.

But then again, if the country invaded was <B>OURS</B>, maybe we would be doing exactly what those Iraqis (and other arabs) are doing.

The problem with these political message boards is that the participants feel they are soldiers of an army in a warzone where they can’t give up a single inch of territory to the enemy army.

In other words, they are so stuck in this anachronic right/left mindset that they think they can’t agree with a single thought expressed by the opposing “army”, otherwise they will be betraying their respective “armies” and will end up losing the “war”.

How pathetic is that?

I have already expressed my personal opinion about what I consider the most desirable outcome in Iraq to be (the paragraph in red).

But regardless of our personal opinions, let’s not be childsh here.

It seems to me that there’s nothing harder than separate our desired outcome for Iraq from serious (and impartial) political analysis just like small children can’t separate their desires (sweets, ice-creams and soda) from objective reality (their parents’ income).

That’s why it is so hard for people here to recognise that these two tendencies (best project brought by an illegitimate source <B>VERSUS</B> nationalistic opposition to this project) are both valid arguments to a certain extent.

I was debating in class today with someone whos main point was that America was a bully who deserved to be attacked, and Cuba was a great place to live. So what if people were'nt free. They were all equal and had 99% literacy.

I think I actually lost, technically. Because that just threw up a "Does Not Compute" message in my mental computer. How the f*** am I supposed retort against that? It's like somebody openly endorseing David Duke or Adolf Hitler.