Zone1 Why can't there be a serious intellectual discusion about Jesus' gender and sexuality?

[Meriweather]

So the catholic church is denying the veracity of the Bible?

No.

 

[Meriweather]

The Original concept of Satanist was someone or something that stands in your way way.. Not some powerful being that had supernatural powers … So let’s say I wanted to walk through a door but someone was standing in my way and was trying to stop me then they would be Satanic against me… Christianity and Christian’s that hold onto mistaken concepts are Satan in this world because they teach the opposite of the original concepts as found in the Jewish scriptures and are thwarting or trying to thwart the coming messianic age by saying the coming messiah is the anti christ even though their concept of Jesus as written in their books comepletely fulfills that role as he did everything opposite of what the true role of Moschiach is to be… Either Christianity gets deprogrammed and realizes these facts or the world continues on on its merry way for thousands of more years of craziness and mistaken ideals..Ironically the Islamic world have it down pat as they call Israel the little Satan and American the big Satan as we stand in their way of world domination…

Yes, someone who stands in your way, someone who tests, someone who tempts. The Talmud and Jewish literature do acknowledge demons; they are mentioned in the Dead Sea scrolls as well. A point of study I have yet to pursue is whether Ha-satan/Satan interact. Does Satan stand in the way of demons or does he guide them? From the Jewish standpoint, how does Satan compare/contrast to angels?

Christians need deprogrammed? Or, is it possible Jews need re-programmed? There should be no enmity of Jews towards Jesus. Personally, I have not issues of a Jewish messiah being a human totally involved in political life, redirecting, improving how nations are ruled. That won't change my belief in Jesus, because Jesus identified himself as leader in a spiritual kingdom not of this world. Jesus noted that Moses spoke of him. Think about it. Moses led the people of God out of Egypt, out of slavery into the Promised Land, into freedom. Jesus leads the people away from the slavery of sin and into the Kingdom of God. He pointed out it was not what people ate or did not eat, whether they washed or did not wash, that kept people out of this spiritual kingdom. He said it wasn't what went into the body but what came forth from the heart (jealousy, greed, selfishness) that kept one from the spiritual kingdom which is within the reach of everyone right now.

No doubt the nations of the world and their rulers need a new example, a different way. Hopefully your Jewish Messiah is a grand part of this. At the very beginning of his own ministry, when tempted by Satan, Jesus rejected this role, telling Satan it wasn't the pursuit of worldly power or fame that was most important, but to worship God. He said that living in the pursuit of power wasn't his way, but rather it was to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. That was what Jesus was anointed to do (his Messiah-ship); to show people they could live from every word that comes from the mouth of God; to be obedient to it. The Jewish Messiah/ruler would not have the time or the goal to help and guide individuals into the spiritual kingdom which is apart from the worries and cares of this, the physical/political world.

 

[Meriweather]

Paul or the concept of him was almagamated from different persons just like the character of Jesus was and all the stories myths and personas found in the New Testament .. The people who could question what is taught there were long dead when these stories myths and personas were long dead so who could question what was written and the Jews were long dispersed from their land and without power and Rome and her followers chased them all over the place not allowing them rest or a place to establish themselves or RETURN( Hashev) so they could rebuild what they had lost and counter the mistaken ideals found in that book…

Paul had one goal: To not just proclaim Christ, but to proclaim Christ crucified. He was simply an Apostle (meaning a missionary) among the poor and everyday people of his time. The elite and powerful of his time scarcely gave him the attention they would give a gnat. People forget this.

In Jesus' and the Apostles' time, they were a little yeast among the dough. It took three hundred years for this yeast to spread to the point where the elite and powerful took much note. Then it was like that old saying where the powerful suddenly asked themselves: Which way are the people going? I must know and get there first because I am their leader." Enter Constantine.

 

[Meriweather]

So the question is why I am posting here Nahum 1 and here is my answer note that followers of Christianity have always notoriously changed scriptures in the Jewish Tanach to place their idol Jesus where ever it suits them to deceive many including naive Jews who through neglect of study can be fooled into believing their nonsense... After all if we supposedly worship the same god then why do they try to convert us away from the Gd of Abraham Isaac and Jacob... Obviously they do not.... We can use their same tactics by evening the playing field even By placing their idol Jesus in the scriptures attributed to Nahum....Capernaum was and is known as Nahum’s village..It is also the place Jesus supposedly taught and deceived many placing himself as a false prophet and Paul as well who taught such nonsense . Go ahead keep twisting Meriweather you will start looking like a pretzel soon but we can all see where you are coming from …

Oh, sure. It is well known that two wrongs always make a right, that tit-for-tat is the best way.

What you skip past, the translations of the Hebrew into English leave much to be desired. Further, with the advent of the printing press and Protestant Christians came the idea that everyone could read the Bible themselves and each come to their own conclusions of what it meant and what it said. I attended Catholic school and the point was made to bring in a rabbi to explain the Jewish perspective. This was probably when the seeds were planted for my interest in etymology. I also had a natural interest in research especially when it came to both current and historical events.

Your intent seems to be, "They muddied our waters, let's muddy their waters." My intent is to clarify all waters by explaining the etymology and history of both. What will you stand in the way of: Muddying the waters or clarifying the waters? Etymology and the original language is on your side. Why not teach?

 

[Meriweather]

He nullified nothing It is claimed in the New Testament that he taught in Capernaum to disobey the previous laws

Actually, Jesus taught he had not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. He noted that every bit and piece of the law down to it's smallest letter has great significance until it is fulfilled. An interesting point is that Jesus taught obedience and obedience was greatly emphasized in the early Church. It wasn't until century later (again, the advent of Protestantism) where obedience began to lose its status and popularity. In some places I am beginning to see signs that perhaps obedience needs to be given greater attention.

 

[ThisIsMe]

No.

It's what it sounds like

 

[Meriweather]

It's what it sounds like

Sometimes all it takes to better understand is listening to more scholarly explanations. Was what you heard based on scholarship, or was it a more simple opinion?

 

[luiza]

Christians need deprogrammed? Or, is it possible Jews need re-programmed?

I only make this comment as a marker for later this year .

Both of these Cult religions will implode once the presence and interaction with Aliens is Disclosed .
That is , non Terrestrial Entities , as distinct from a Morticia led Gypsy type of invasion as a silly alternative.

This Disclosure ,is now almost overdue, will be in terms of a large group of Whistleblowers going public, with separate and later further intense activity of non human built craft in our skies .

Obviously it will shake most people's minds and world views, whether they are presently tied to any Cult Religion or not.
I do not expect any reaction to this comment as I am only posting it in the hope that one or two whose minds are perhaps less tolerant to change might be a little better prepared to cope , once this phased Disclosure starts in earnest .

And, believe it or not, I am 100% sane mentally and physically. According to my psychiatrist Sigmund Younger .

Eyes to the Skies . No fear .

 

[Meriweather]

I only make this comment as a marker for later this year .

Both of these Cult religions will implode once the presence and interaction with Aliens is Disclosed .
That is , non Terrestrial Entities , as distinct from a Morticia led Gypsy type of invasion as a silly alternative.

This Disclosure ,is now almost overdue, will be in terms of a large group of Whistleblowers going public, with separate and later further intense activity of non human built craft in our skies .

Obviously it will shake most people's minds and world views, whether they are presently tied to any Cult Religion or not.
I do not expect any reaction to this comment as I am only posting it in the hope that one or two whose minds are perhaps less tolerant to change might be a little better prepared to cope , once this phased Disclosure starts in earnest .

And, believe it or not, I am 100% sane mentally and physically. According to my psychiatrist Sigmund Younger .

Eyes to the Skies . No fear .

I teach. The analogy often heard is that to begin a new lesson, one must first have a nail on which one can hang their hat. Without that nail, the hat falls to the ground. Then, when I teach advanced math, I don't scoff at arithmetic or belittle it. Education comes in steps, and it does little good for those higher on the staircase to demolish and get rid of the steps that got them to where they are as no longer important.

Where we differ, is that you seem to believe it is vital to first destroy what has gone before instead of building on the foundation as what as gone before. While I look forward to the Great Reveal you have in mind, I see you running into two problems. You have no nail on which to hang a hat, and so the hat may simply fall to the ground and lie there. You are intent on demolishing the steps that brought us to this point, and the result will be no one will be able to follow you to the point you are now.

I wish you and your whistleblowers well.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Sometimes all it takes to better understand is listening to more scholarly explanations. Was what you heard based on scholarship, or was it a more simple opinion?

He just said that many church elects are now saying these books were not written by the apostles. That goes against what the Bible teaches. It's pretty simple

 

[Meriweather]

He just said that many church elects are now saying these books were not written by the apostles. That goes against what the Bible teaches. It's pretty simple

Luke was not an Apostle, he was a companion of Paul's.
Mark was not an Apostle, he was a disciple of Peter.
It is doubtful the author of Matthew was an Apostle.
John was an Apostle.

The author of Matthew is an interesting study as it seems to have been written late in the first century. Still some early Christians believe it was the Apostle who wrote the story. If so, Matthew would have been elderly. Another theory is that later edits may have been added to his account.

Question: Where does the Bible teach that Mark and Luke were Apostles?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Luke was not an Apostle, he was a companion of Paul's.
Mark was not an Apostle, he was a disciple of Peter.
It is doubtful the author of Matthew was an Apostle.
John was an Apostle.

The author of Matthew is an interesting study as it seems to have been written late in the first century. Still some early Christians believe it was the Apostle who wrote the story. If so, Matthew would have been elderly. Another theory is that later edits may have been added to his account.

Question: Where does the Bible teach that Mark and Luke were Apostles?

I'm not going to debate they were apostles, I don't know, and you have a point. Some of the books of the Bible don't direct attribute themselves to the writer, but it has long been understood that those books were written by who they said they were.

 

[shimon]

Yes, someone who stands in your way, someone who tests, someone who tempts. The Talmud and Jewish literature do acknowledge demons; they are mentioned in the Dead Sea scrolls as well. A point of study I have yet to pursue is whether Ha-satan/Satan interact. Does Satan stand in the way of demons or does he guide them? From the Jewish standpoint, how does Satan compare/contrast to angels?

Christians need deprogrammed? Or, is it possible Jews need re-programmed? There should be no enmity of Jews towards Jesus. Personally, I have not issues of a Jewish messiah being a human totally involved in political life, redirecting, improving how nations are ruled. That won't change my belief in Jesus, because Jesus identified himself as leader in a spiritual kingdom not of this world. Jesus noted that Moses spoke of him. Think about it. Moses led the people of God out of Egypt, out of slavery into the Promised Land, into freedom. Jesus leads the people away from the slavery of sin and into the Kingdom

Yes, someone who stands in your way, someone who tests, someone who tempts. The Talmud and Jewish literature do acknowledge demons; they are mentioned in the Dead Sea scrolls as well. A point of study I have yet to pursue is whether Ha-satan/Satan interact. Does Satan stand in the way of demons or does he guide them? From the Jewish standpoint, how does Satan compare/contrast to angels?

Christians need deprogrammed? Or, is it possible Jews need re-programmed? There should be no enmity of Jews towards Jesus. Personally, I have not issues of a Jewish messiah being a human totally involved in political life, redirecting, improving how nations are ruled. That won't change my belief in Jesus, because Jesus identified himself as leader in a spiritual kingdom not of this world. Jesus noted that Moses spoke of him. Think about it. Moses led the people of God out of Egypt, out of slavery into the Promised Land, into freedom. Jesus leads the people away from the slavery of sin and into the Kingdom of God. He pointed out it was not what people ate or did not eat, whether they washed or did not wash, that kept people out of this spiritual kingdom. He said it wasn't what went into the body but what came forth from the heart (jealousy, greed, selfishness) that kept one from the spiritual kingdom which is within the reach of everyone right now.

No doubt the nations of the world and their rulers need a new example, a different way. Hopefully your Jewish Messiah is a grand part of this. At the very beginning of his own ministry, when tempted by Satan, Jesus rejected this role, telling Satan it wasn't the pursuit of worldly power or fame that was most important, but to worship God. He said that living in the pursuit of power wasn't his way, but rather it was to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. That was what Jesus was anointed to do (his Messiah-ship); to show people they could live from every word that comes from the mouth of God; to be obedient to it. The Jewish Messiah/ruler would not have the time or the goal to help and guide individuals into the spiritual kingdom which is apart from the worries and cares of this, the physical/political world.

As usual Meriweather you have mixed up a lot of things together Jesus was never anointed unless you call being washed by a sinful fwoman anointing…He certainly wasn’t anointed in the proper fashion that is for sure….lol..


You brought up Demons which I did a lot of research on a long time ago did you bring it up as a smokescreen
Regardless here is some pertinent info…










"Demons"...Here I Found this Information for you to enlighten you and any who read this information...In case you don't understand "enlighten" in the hebrew concept is to gain true knowledge and understanding.... The Problem is Many people live in constant fear of demons. They consider them to be invisible, wicked spirit beings. They are held to be responsible for doing untold harm to people and nations. Wars, civil unrest and the progress of evil political ideologies are all considered to be the result of demon activity. Demons are held to be capable of entering the body or mind of a person. where the demon can destroy faith, induce bodily sickness or make the person mad. Some believe that demons attach themselves to objects such as books, furniture or jewellery, and when misfortune strikes they will dispose hastily of the object suspected of harbouring the demon.

DO DEMONS EXIST?

A careful examination of the Bible teaching about demons (or devils), shows that there are no such beings as demons. There is no need to fear them! They do not exist!

This is what we find in the Bible:

(1) In the Jewish scriptures, demons are only mentioned on a very few occasions. In every reference there is a connection with false religion. For example, concerning the unfaithful nation of Israel we read: "They sacrificed to devils not to God to gods whom they knew not." (Deut. 32:17). Of Israel it was commanded: "They shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils " (Lev. 17:7). Speaking of the unfaithfulness of one of Israel’s kings we read: "He ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made" (2 Chron. 11:15).

THUS IN THE SO CALLED OLD TESTAMENT DEVILS (OR DEMONS) ARE THE OBJECTS OF PAGAN WORSHIP—PAGAN GODS! PAGAN IDOLS!

(2) We find exactly the same teaching in the New Testament. The Apostle Paul writes to the Corinthian believers and warns them to keep away from the idol worship which was part of the Corinthian way of life: "Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table and the table of devils" (1 Cor. 10:14,20,21).

THUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, TOO, DEMONS (DEVILS) ARE PAGAN DEITIES.

(3) But, according to the Bible, pagan gods have no real existence. So the God of the Bible—"the only true God"—declares, "There is no God else beside me; a just God and a saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else" (Isa. 45:21,22).

Since demons are pagan gods, and since pagan gods have no real existence (Hmm Doesnt Look Good For Jesus Here Does It )it follows that demons do not exist!!

(4) But does not the Bible speak of people being possessed by demons?—Yes, but only in a very restricted way:

¨ Demon possession is not mentioned in the whole of the Old Testament.

¨ Demon possession is not mentioned in "most" of the New Testament.

¨ Demon possession occurs only in the Gospels and occasionally in the book of Acts.

Careful examination shows that demon possession in the Gospels and Acts, was a way of speaking about certain types of illnesses—particularly epilepsy (e.g. Matt. 17:15) and psychiatric illness (e.g. Mark 5:1–15, and note especially, "in his right mind" in verse 15). In Otherwords Superstious nonsense because they did not know what caused illnesses ....Of Course There was The Scene with Jesus and the pigs but as we know by now most of that stuff was borrowed from ancient mythology and is not based on any concrete facts...Look to Greek mythology for The Pig Scene you will find it there...The Gospels just ripped off the story as they have an almost everything printed in the gospel tales....Hope That Helps clear up the issue

you should try not to confuse people by posting such garbage about Demons unless of course you are trying to promote people from turning from the G-d of Abraham which both Muslims and people of the jewish faith follow. If That is the case then by pushing your "Jesus" you are showing you follow a "Demon" to say the least..Wink Wink…...

 

[shimon]

Oh, sure. It is well known that two wrongs always make a right, that tit-for-tat is the best way.

What you skip past, the translations of the Hebrew into English leave much to be desired. Further, with the advent of the printing press and Protestant Christians came the idea that everyone could read the Bible themselves and each come to their own conclusions of what it meant and what it said. I attended Catholic school and the point was made to bring in a rabbi to explain the Jewish perspective. This was probably when the seeds were planted for my interest in etymology. I also had a natural interest in research especially when it came to both current and historical events.

Your intent seems to be, "They muddied our waters, let's muddy their waters." My intent is to clarify all waters by explaining the etymology and history of both. What will you stand in the way of: Muddying the waters or clarifying the waters? Etymology and the original language is on your side. Why not teach?

Waters are just faiths or peoples… You don’t have a Mikvah to keep your “ Waters” clean and Unmuddied and if we had our temple rebuilt and we can use it as a platform to teach then we can unmuddied everyone’s concepts by teaching them the original meanings that have become so tainted with complete misnomers and mistakes.. Of course that would be the end of all the misconceptions therefore that is why a Jewish temple has been blocked by all those who know what building it would bring…

 

[shimon]

Paul had one goal: To not just proclaim Christ, but to proclaim Christ crucified. He was simply an Apostle (meaning a missionary) among the poor and everyday people of his time. The elite and powerful of his time scarcely gave him the attention they would give a gnat. People forget this.

In Jesus' and the Apostles' time, they were a little yeast among the dough. It took three hundred years for this yeast to spread to the point where the elite and powerful took much note. Then it was like that old saying where the powerful suddenly asked themselves: Which way are the people going? I must know and get there first because I am their leader." Enter Constantine.

Paul is am amalgamated character from different personas as is the Jesus character and many others in the New Testament even the apostles were annonomous till they were given names so what is your point here all good FICTIONs are recorded on pages of books even cruciFICTION wink…

 

[Meriweather]

you should try not to confuse people by posting such garbage about Demons

Asking you a question about demons of which I said upfront that I have no knowledge is posting garbage? I'm truly sorry my innocent and sincere question caused you so much confusion. I'll pursue any further studies on my own. Again, my apologies.

 

[Meriweather]

Paul is am amalgamated character from different personas as is the Jesus character and many others in the New Testament even the apostles were annonomous till they were given names so what is your point here all good FICTIONs are recorded on pages of books even cruciFICTION wink…

Have you done any current research on the Shroud of Turin?

 

[daveman]

Yes, because we should just ignore... The first Christians who witnessed the supernatural acts performed by Jesus - which included controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death - worshiped Jesus as God because they witnessed those miracles. Non-Christian historians recorded that the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God because he performed supernatural feats. 24,000 written manuscripts documented the supernatural feats Jesus performed and the first Christians witnessed. The Babylonian Talmud confirms Jewish religious leaders put Jesus to death for sorcery and for leading Israel into apostasy. There are no opposing accounts that document that Jesus did not perform any supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that argue Jesus wasn't put to death for performing sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy. There are no opposing accounts which document Jesus wasn't resurrected. There are no opposing accounts that the first Christians didn't witness Jesus performing supernatural acts. There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.

And arrogant non-Christians believe they can counter all that. Hubris.

 

[shimon]

Asking you a question about demons of which I said upfront that I have no knowledge is posting garbage? I'm truly sorry my innocent and sincere question caused you so much confusion. I'll pursue any further studies on my own. Again, my apologies.

I apologize for the garbage remark I posted that many years ago and forgot to take that out in my reply to you it had nothing to do with you

 

[shimon]

Have you done any current research on the Shroud of Turin?

Yes I have there were as many as 40 shrouds at one time vying for money and fame I forget why the one in the city of Turin won out but if I check my notes I might remember why…