Why Can't The So-Called Pro-Life Crowd Be Honest?

[Cecilie1200]

Thank goodness my appalling lack of memory has a beneficial side.

I understand that sometimes the human brain will simply blank things out that are too boggling for the mind to deal with. And lord knows, THAT was mind-boggling. It is still, hands down, the stupidest thing I have ever read on the Internet.

 

[Immanuel]

And what percentage of abortions is that? Clearly, if that were given as the primary reason, it would have been discussed by Guttmacher. I would guess that falls in the "Other 4%" category and is most likely less than the incidence of rape.

That doesn't answer my question.

Then get off your arse and goggle the answer yourself.

Immie

 

[Anguille]

Actually that has been pointed out many times. But do you realize that according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, an arm of Planned Parenthood, that only 7% of all abortions are primarily performed for the reasons of fetal abnormalities, health of the mother, rape or incest?

As for the idea that it is not smart for a woman who cannot afford to bring a child into this world, she already made her choice when she chose to have unprotected sex. Unless of course she was raped which happens in, according to Guttmacher, about 1% of the cases of abortion.

Welcome to USMB. Glad you're here.

Immie

A fair point. So, if this is about pro-life, shouldnt that also encompass the quality of said life? What is the percentage of people procreating into poverty? I think if you dug around, you would find that the poorer people are, the more children they tend to have. Education has a lot to do with this. Procreating into poverty only continues that spiral.

I don't know the percentage, but, being wealthy is not all about having money. A family that would be considered poverty stricken may in fact be the most wealthy people in the world depending on their view of things.

Life is not always easy. I would personally prefer never to discuss abortion again. I actually hate that my side, the pro-life side, is seen as being so anti-woman. I believe in doing everything we can to help women in a crisis pregnancies both before giving birth and after. I don't have all the answers, but one thing I am certain of, taking the life of the unborn child is one of the worst answers imaginable.

I believe that most people that are "pro-choice" see things much as I do except that they view the role of government differently than I do. I can accept their view. I am definitely willing to discuss all options that would reduce the number of abortions. Unfortunately, I don't think either political party wants us discussing that. Both of them, use this issue to divide us.

Immie

Well said!

 

[Anguille]

And what percentage of abortions is that? Clearly, if that were given as the primary reason, it would have been discussed by Guttmacher. I would guess that falls in the "Other 4%" category and is most likely less than the incidence of rape.

That doesn't answer my question.

Then get off your arse and goggle the answer yourself.

Immie

Are you afraid to answer my question about what your opinion is on whether a woman who has used birth control and had it fail on her is justified in having an abortion?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Immie I think the one thing that gets lost in all the debate is that as far as I can tell everyone wants to see a diminished amount of abortions.

Personally I think education would do better than any law would, and pro-life and pro-choice ppl alike would be having less abortions if they're better educated on the consequences of unprotected sex.

Educate ppl on the costs of having children, the time needed for children, the emotional difficulty, the downfalls of STD's BEFORE most kids start having sex and pregnancies happen.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ravi, just because you think that creationism and science are non-compatible doesn't mean there aren't those of us who love science and see it as God's map of life. I'm certainly not scared of science, though I think most of the head-in-the-sand anti-creationists are definitely afraid of faith...and of a lot of science, too, when it doesn't fit their concept of the way things ought to be.

If I recall correctly, Ravi was actually chiming in to support the human-dog hybrid argument. In fact, it's possible it even WAS Ravi. That may be why I originally put her idiotic butt on ignore.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Ding Ding Ding! Educating minds is the best practice here.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How'd I miss THAT?

I think you were there, and have just managed to block it out, like I did.

Lemme guess - that genius was pro-abortion

How did you know?

 

[Immanuel]

That doesn't answer my question.

Then get off your arse and goggle the answer yourself.

Immie

Are you afraid to answer my question about what your opinion is on whether a woman who has used birth control and had it fail on her is justified in having an abortion?

I did answer your question. That is an extremely small percentage of women.

However, to spell it out for you, when you choose to have sex, protected or not, you choose to take the risk of ending up with a pregnancy. Plain and simple, there are no guarantees on the box of condoms or in the instructions on how to use the pill that you will not end up with a pregnancy. If you choose to have sex, you run the risk of ending up with a pregnancy.

Either accept that risk or choose not to have sex.

Immie

 

[Anguille]

Immie I think the one thing that gets lost in all the debate is that as far as I can tell everyone wants to see a diminished amount of abortions.

Personally I think education would do better than any law would, and pro-life and pro-choice ppl alike would be having less abortions if they're better educated on the consequences of unprotected sex.

Educate ppl on the costs of having children, the time needed for children, the emotional difficulty, the downfalls of STD's BEFORE most kids start having sex and pregnancies happen.

 

[Immanuel]

Immie I think the one thing that gets lost in all the debate is that as far as I can tell everyone wants to see a diminished amount of abortions.

Personally I think education would do better than any law would, and pro-life and pro-choice ppl alike would be having less abortions if they're better educated on the consequences of unprotected sex.

Educate ppl on the costs of having children, the time needed for children, the emotional difficulty, the downfalls of STD's BEFORE most kids start having sex and pregnancies happen.

What? Are you trying to scare all of us out of having sex ever again! Is this some attempt at ending human life on earth with this generation?

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

And a fetus has the potential to become a living human being.

The foetus isn't alive?

So women carry a dead baby around for nine months and then it magically comes to life when her water breaks?

That raises serious questions about all those sonograms I see them moving around in...

Makes me wonder how doctors can tell the difference between a fetus who can be left in the womb to await that magical moment of life creation versus one who must be removed because he's going to rot and kill his mother with the subsequent infection. Hmm, what COULD the quality that differentiates between the two possibly be?

 

[Anguille]

Then get off your arse and goggle the answer yourself.

Immie

Are you afraid to answer my question about what your opinion is on whether a woman who has used birth control and had it fail on her is justified in having an abortion?

I did answer your question. That is an extremely small percentage of women.

However, to spell it out for you, when you choose to have sex, protected or not, you choose to take the risk of ending up with a pregnancy. Plain and simple, there are no guarantees on the box of condoms or in the instructions on how to use the pill that you will not end up with a pregnancy. If you choose to have sex, you run the risk of ending up with a pregnancy.

Either accept that risk or choose not to have sex.

Immie

Or have an abortion.
I can't imagine why anyone would insist that a child should be born because a woman took a risk and things went badly.
Where is the respect for the child? They are human too, you know.

 

[R.D.]

Immie I think the one thing that gets lost in all the debate is that as far as I can tell everyone wants to see a diminished amount of abortions.

Personally I think education would do better than any law would, and pro-life and pro-choice ppl alike would be having less abortions if they're better educated on the consequences of unprotected sex.

Educate ppl on the costs of having children, the time needed for children, the emotional difficulty, the downfalls of STD's BEFORE most kids start having sex and pregnancies happen.

How can that be? Pro choicers whole defense is the the life is of no value

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh, dear GOD, I had actually managed to forget about that! That's right, we had that one rocket scientist who confidently maintained for PAGES that dogs and humans could interbreed.

How'd I miss THAT?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/98398-what-should-abortion-laws-be.html

That's right! It was JD who thought BOTH that a dog could impregnate a human, AND that the mother and unborn baby shared a blood supply.

And you WERE present for it, Allie.

 

[Immanuel]

Are you afraid to answer my question about what your opinion is on whether a woman who has used birth control and had it fail on her is justified in having an abortion?

I did answer your question. That is an extremely small percentage of women.

However, to spell it out for you, when you choose to have sex, protected or not, you choose to take the risk of ending up with a pregnancy. Plain and simple, there are no guarantees on the box of condoms or in the instructions on how to use the pill that you will not end up with a pregnancy. If you choose to have sex, you run the risk of ending up with a pregnancy.

Either accept that risk or choose not to have sex.

Immie

Or have an abortion.
I can't imagine why anyone would insist that a child should be born because a woman took a risk and things went badly.
Where is the respect for the child? They are human too, you know.

Oh please, ye who actually stated that an unborn child is not human should not be asking this question.

And ye know not that things went badly. The human being within her, may turn out to be the biggest joy of her life in just a few short months. Okay... maybe that will take a year or so once the child is out of diapers?... um a few years like after the terrible twos? Wait, the teen years follow that! Okay in 25 years, maybe the child will become the joy of her life!!! Sheeesth!!!

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

Germ Cell, Germ-Line

A minor technicality regarding specific terminology. My point remains valid. A new living human organism is created when the gametes come together.

It is when a human life is created. Human life begins at this point. That much is established scientific fact. That you feel the need to argue over the particulars of embryological lexicon demonstrates your inability to address the actual issue.

Like arguing over whether VietNam was a war or a 'police action' instead of whether we should have gotten involved.

Hey, if he wants to go around sounding like his mommy never told him where babies came from, that's HIS problem.

 

[R.D.]

Are you afraid to answer my question about what your opinion is on whether a woman who has used birth control and had it fail on her is justified in having an abortion?

I did answer your question. That is an extremely small percentage of women.

However, to spell it out for you, when you choose to have sex, protected or not, you choose to take the risk of ending up with a pregnancy. Plain and simple, there are no guarantees on the box of condoms or in the instructions on how to use the pill that you will not end up with a pregnancy. If you choose to have sex, you run the risk of ending up with a pregnancy.

Either accept that risk or choose not to have sex.

Immie

Or have an abortion.
I can't imagine why anyone would insist that a child should be born because a woman took a risk and things went badly.
Where is the respect for the child? They are human too, you know.

So it's out of respect for the unborn and helpless that you kill it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Immie thanks for your respectful replies, and no I wasn't referring to you in the 1st post. I think you're different than others on this thread and that you don't judge me and view me as your moral inferior because of my view on the subject.

I think we've discussed this before, personally I don't want my view of pro-choice shoved on others. I want it to be a state issue, and if the state chooses a pro-life law i'll be fine with it as it'll show the republic at work, it likely will never become an issue in my life or my future children's lives but if it did I would then react accordingly.

What I would like is to see is fewer abortions. I really don't care how that is achieved. I don't believe it can be achieved by overturning Roe. If only it were that simple. I think our attitude on life must change and the only way that can happen is a slow methodical changing of the hearts of human beings.

As long as we view the other side as being the enemy, things are not going to get any better. When we start talking together and brainstorming about our issues is when we can hope to see change: not before then.

Immie

I agree I'd like to see far less abortions. Personally I think sex education and availability of birth control are 2 big ways to decrease it, but often times (maybe not with you) those 2 things are looked down upon by the same pro-life crowd.

I think abstinence education is a joke, when I was 16 and probably like most other guys I wanted to hump everything, you can't teach people out of their natural hormones.

Well, fortunately for the human race, that is not only not true, but it is not the 16-year-old BOYS who make the decisions. You must not remember your adolescence very well if you don't think teenaged GIRLS can and do restrain themselves from having sex. You may have WANTED to hump everything in sight, but I'll bet you didn't actually GET to, did you?

 

[Zoom-boing]

I agree. Also add the the fact that there is more reporting in the news about children mistreated by adoptive or foster parents and that this probably leads some women who haves qualms about having an abortion to decide the lesser of what they believe to be two evils.

Good point, but then the mistreatment itself needs to be dealt with and their are laws protecting children from such mistreatment. That being said, adoption should still be promoted as a viable and even preferred option. Then again, it seems to me that the abortion industry talks down adoption as an alternative.

Immie

It seems to me that the adoption industry maligns abortion for the obvious reason that it limits supply. My cousin and her husband adopted their children and is a fantastic mother. They did so for genetic reasons. I'm glad they got to be parents but I would still never give a child of mine up for adoption. I think to do so is irresponsible and even selfish for those who do it so they won't go to hell. I grant that there are some mothers who have honestly miscalculated their ability to care for and raise a child and that is a terrible situation all around. But it seems to me that most infants up for adoption are there because some poor kid was brainwashed or is getting paid to do it. The two birth mothers of my cousins kids certainly were. They were all offered the opportunity to remain in their children's lives to some degree but none took up the offer. Well, one did but she dropped out of sight soon after the birth. To give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was just too painful to be reminded of how they gave up their child. People do make mistakes. Especially teenagers.

I think it's horrible the way some organisations entrap vulnerable young girls and convince them they should go through with a pregnancy they don't want. Your life is never the sasme after giving birth. No matter if you keep the baby or not.

Carrying a fetus to term, delivering the baby and putting it up for adoption (thus giving them a chance at life) is selfish??? But killing that unborn human (thus never even giving them a chance at life) is ok in your book.

Your world, it haz a bizzaro.